Steel Dragon/Practised Spellcaster/Loredrake

[Invader]

If you have a steel dragon with sorc levels and take practiced spellcaster to make up the lost caster levels and then took loredrake later on, would your effective caster level be 2 higher than your ECL?

[Invader]

No thoughts anyone?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

No.

Loredrake, the Sorcerer level, and any prestige classes that grant '+1 level of existing class' all add directly to your Sorcerer spellcasting capability. Your caster level is your Sorcerer spellcasting capability as a whole, including all of those things, plus any caster level bonuses such as Practiced Spellcaster. Your spellcasting capability in a given class is a single effect and cannot be separated when applying your own effects in the most beneficial order. You cannot add Practiced Spellcaster until you have a caster level to add it to, and when determining your initial caster level you total your effective level for spellcasting capability.

That said, a Juvenile or older Steel Dragon with Loredrake would still gain the full +4 from Practiced Spellcaster. Also note that you don't actually need a level of Sorcerer to take Practiced Spellcaster, the 'choose a spellcasting class you possess' line is in the flavor text, no the rules text. There's nothing in the rules text preventing you from choosing a class you have no levels in. As I already said though, if you do not yet have a caster level in the chosen class then you cannot apply a bonus to it. It would be like an undead creature trying to benefit from a Bear's Endurance spell.

[Coidzor]

Spellhoarding can be argued to take Steel Dragon + Loredrake and make both into wizard casting, but you're not going to be able to get CL higher than HD with practiced spellcaster.

[Urpriest]

How can you take "Loredrake" later on? It was my understanding that you either were a Loredrake or you weren't.

[Invader]

How can you take "Loredrake" later on? It was my understanding you either were a Loredrake or you weren't.

Oh this might absolutely be true, I don't remember the exact details of acquiring loredrake but it seems either way it won't work.

[Invader]

No.

Loredrake, the Sorcerer level, and any prestige classes that grant '+1 level of existing class' all add directly to your Sorcerer spellcasting capability. Your caster level is your Sorcerer spellcasting capability as a whole, including all of those things, plus any caster level bonuses such as Practiced Spellcaster. Your spellcasting capability in a given class is a single effect and cannot be separated when applying your own effects in the most beneficial order. You cannot add Practiced Spellcaster until you have a caster level to add it to, and when determining your initial caster level you total your effective level for spellcasting capability.

That said, a Juvenile or older Steel Dragon with Loredrake would still gain the full +4 from Practiced Spellcaster. Also note that you don't actually need a level of Sorcerer to take Practiced Spellcaster, the 'choose a spellcasting class you possess' line is in the flavor text, no the rules text. There's nothing in the rules text preventing you from choosing a class you have no levels in. As I already said though, if you do not yet have a caster level in the chosen class then you cannot apply a bonus to it. It would be like an undead creature trying to benefit from a Bear's Endurance spell.

So you could instead take levels of wizard instead of sorcerer and achieve the same effect?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

So you could instead take levels of wizard instead of sorcerer and achieve the same effect?

You don't need to take levels in anything, regardless of what class you pick you can't use Practiced Spellcaster to make your caster level exceed your hit dice, unless you have some other caster level bonus effect (not an effective level for spellcasting capability effect) to add on after it. If you do take class levels, pick a prestige class that advances spellcasting such as Abjurant Champion.