Roy, is he as smart as he looks?

[Erastus]

I don't know if this has been previously discovered, but... If you turn your copy of On the Origin of PCs to page 61, you will discover the following:
Roy: "Or maybe I'm hiring you because I require the creation of a managed spherical energy release with a thermal signature no less than 1850º Kelvin, which can ...."

Now, The problem here is bolded, which is that, Kelvin don't use degrees, the unit is Kelvin or "K" NOT º K like with ºC or ºF.

How on earth did V not catch this? :vaarsuvius: is dissapointed.

--Erastus

[Thexare Blademoon]

If I had to guess?

A screwup on Rich's part, rather than a character issue. Funny as his comics are, the man can't be perfect.

Plus, I've made that mistake before, and I consider myself mostly intelligent. Usually.

[Alfryd]

Now, The problem here is bolded, which is that, Kelvin don't use degrees, the unit is Kelvin or "K" NOT º K like with ºC or ºF.
That tears it. I'm on to you, Greenhilt, with your MBA, and your lacerating sarcasm, and your tactical synergy- it's all a charade isn't it. Isn't it. You're just a sub-mensan trying to role-play a Rhodes scholar.

[Erastus]

If I had to guess?

A screwup on Rich's part, rather than a character issue. Funny as his comics are, the man can't be perfect.

Plus, I've made that mistake before, and I consider myself mostly intelligent. Usually.

That was kinda what i was getting at! I dislike the art of being direct, it takes the fun out of it. :eek:

Also seeing as Rich is kinda an idol in my household I don't want to criticize him where certain other younger siblings will read it. :amused:

[Brickwall]

Using proper terminology is only useful when it is the only way to communicate the correct information. If improper terminology will communicate the correct information as well, it is perfectly acceptable to use whatever terminology comes to mind first.

Plus, Roy isn't sitting in Science class every day anymore, like you may or may not be. It's been years since he's had a science class, and with all the bonus feats he's got, he's gotta get rid of the useless information to make room for the new stuff.

[brionl]

Well, going by this: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0031.html The mindfl < Aaack... > Oh No! Lawyers!

[mc skittlez ninja master]

of course roy isn't smart because he's made way too many mistakes even more than elan so he talks like hes smart but he's not just like me

[danielf]

Roy never looks very smart to me, so probably he is as smart as he looks

[mc skittlez ninja master]

you know what'd be a smart move for roy? cross-classing to ninja. Then he could whoop 10 kinds of stuff to miko.

[pita]

Even better, he could take the weaponmaster prestige class!
And then multiclass to wizard!
And become a spellsword!

[Closet_Skeleton]

Even better, he could take the weaponmaster prestige class!
And then multiclass to wizard!
And become a spellsword!

And be as efficient as Nale. Why mix a decent class like weaponmaster with a mediocre arcane cleric wannabe like Spellsword?

[Om]

How on earth did V not catch this? :vaarsuvius: is dissapointed.Perhaps her lifetime of magical studies has not dealt with physics or the like?

In any case the use of "degrees Kelvin" is, while technically incorrect, not uncommon in casual tongue.

[pita]

And be as efficient as Nale. Why mix a decent class like weaponmaster with a mediocre arcane cleric wannabe like Spellsword?
Because he can?
People who don't read invisitext smell. And don't realise jokes like the one below. Maybe that's just my socks?
Seriously, sometimes I think the IQ of people is dying out.
People who don't read invisitext smell. And don't realise jokes like the one above. Maybe that's just my socks?

[Krytha]

Psion! He needs to take levels in psion!

[Dawnstrider_Moogle]

A wizard did it.
For reasons yet unknown, a wizard was standing nearby, invisibly, and cast an illusion spell that mimicked Roy's voice to say the word "degrees". Perhaps he knew that one day Erastus was destined to travel back in time to slay Roy, but could be tricked into thinking that Roy can't possibly be THAT important if he makes a mistake like this.

Alternatively, maybe in OotS "degrees Kelvin" IS the proper metric.
Or maybe Roy's not uncommon mistake should be overlooked in the face of the fact that he, a non-expert, knows that much about the process of fireballing undead.

[zoobie]

I miss the point of this thread. In comic about a D&D world with no scientific method populated by stick figures the author is having his chops busted for using the word "degrees" vis-a-vis the Kelvin temperature scale? To what end? In context of the story Roy is obviously smart of the mind flayer wouldn't have chosen Roy over V.

[Wolfie_1066]

i agree i think it isent that bad of a blunder just live with it

[Setra]

Psion! He needs to take levels in psion!

He already has, we all know he's a future psychic.

Seriously though, he has no real need to multiclass, but if he did I'd say take levels in Psiwarrior

[Demented]

Considering that V spends her time telling the laws of physics to shut up and sit down, the nature of Kelvin is probably irrelevant from his point of view.

[Bluelantern]

That is because in the OOTS world you use degrees to kelvin :D

[PaladinFreak]

Roy is pretty powerful as he is, but Roy as a Eldritch Knight would be cool.

[mc skittlez ninja master]

Sorry, but my parents said you could be anything you want to so I am a NINJA! And so should Roy! BECAUSE NINJAS NEVER MAKE MISTAKES! AND ROY CAN"T MAKE A MISTAKE BECAUSE HE's SORTA THE MAIN CHARECTER! AND THEN OOTS WOULD END! I'M TIRED OF TALKING IN CAPITALS! HAHAHAHAHA!

[Tiako]

tactical synergy
You know, his plans never really looked that great to me. Observe:

When going through the Dungeon of Durukon, no tactics were used.
When fighting Xykon, his whole strategy was "charge".
No real strategy with the bandits.
Miko's "stupid" strategy against the ogres was far better than Roy's.
In LG vs. OotS, Round II, his plan failed because he forgot what Nale's main goal was.
In short, Julius Caesar doesn't have to worry.

[Kaerbek]

I can't believe this...

Too much for me xD

[TinSoldier]

You know, his plans never really looked that great to me. Observe:

When going through the Dungeon of Durukon, no tactics were used.
When fighting Xykon, his whole strategy was "charge".
No real strategy with the bandits.
Miko's "stupid" strategy against the ogres was far better than Roy's.
In LG vs. OotS, Round II, his plan failed because he forgot what Nale's main goal was.
In short, Julius Caesar doesn't have to worry.Yeah, I certainly expect more from a high-level fighter with an MBA.

[Amon Star]

Because he can?
People who don't read invisitext smell. And don't realise jokes like the one below. Maybe that's just my socks?
Seriously, sometimes I think the IQ of people is dying out.
People who don't read invisitext smell. And don't realise jokes like the one above. Maybe that's just my socks?

Cute, very cute.

[Demented]

Yeah, I certainly expect more from a high-level fighter with an MBA.

An MBA in Party Manipulation, Plot Hook Catching, and Greatsword Cleavage.
What more is there to being a fighter? :p

His father always said he'd make a better wizard.

[Blood]

Why does it seem like every other thread nowadays is corrupted by randomness...?

Roy is smart. Period. There's no way he's not "as smart as he looks" just because he put a degrees sign when there shouldn't have been. And by the way, according to No Cure for the Paladin Blues, MBA = Masters of Battle Administration. :smallbiggrin:

[TinSoldier]

Why does it seem like every other thread nowadays is corrupted by randomness...?

Roy is smart. Period. There's no way he's not "as smart as he looks" just because he put a degrees sign when there shouldn't have been. And by the way, according to No Cure for the Paladin Blues, MBA = Masters of Battle Administration. :smallbiggrin:Yes, we know what it stands for.

Roy, as a character, is supposed to be a non-stereotypical fighter. He's supposed to be smart. His dad thought that he would have made a better wizard because he is smart.

And yet, tactically, Roy has not seemed to be above average in the Int department like I would expect him to be. As was pointed out above, in detail.

Maybe the OP didn't cover the kinds of things I was looking for but this is something that has bothered me about Roy for awhile now.

[Tiako]

I do have to add a slight addendum: I think that Roy is a pretty good leader, after all, anyone who can keep the Order of the Stick from killing itself has some ability, but I just don't think he is a particularly good tactician. For example, his entire plan with the assassins was "Trick them into opening the door, and then fight". Now, while his plan to get them to open was clever, he had a rogue, a mage, an himself (A Fighter) right there. It doesn't exactly take a genius to open an inn door when you have that group. On the other hand, the plan of either Elan, Miko, or Durkon (I favor Elan) of getting a big sign that says 'Free pudding" to get everyone else out was quite brilliant.

So basically, either Roy isn't quite as clever as his charisma, or we just haven't had a chance to see his abilities.

[Mike_G]

That's unrealistic for an MBA not to be smart! I mean, the a certain commander in cheif has an MBA and he never makes tactical mistakes....

Oh, wait....

Yeah, this'll get modded.

[RecklessFable]

You know, I have an engineering professor that always said "Degrees Kelvin" I never realized there weren't two ways of saying it...

[GoldenKitsune]

You know, his plans never really looked that great to me. Observe:

When going through the Dungeon of Durukon, no tactics were used.
When fighting Xykon, his whole strategy was "charge".
No real strategy with the bandits.
Miko's "stupid" strategy against the ogres was far better than Roy's.
In LG vs. OotS, Round II, his plan failed because he forgot what Nale's main goal was.
In short, Julius Caesar doesn't have to worry.

I have to respectfully disagree here.

a) In the dungeon Roy used tactics; choosing to avoid fights with large groups if possible, and he discussed tactics with Thog while trying to reach the eath sigil.
b) When fighting Xykon Roy's strategy was for Belkar to protect the casters while they took care of goblin/zombie mobs while he took out Xykon.
c) Also, in the fight to save his team from the bandits he strategy was for V and Haley to take out the Samantha while he took out all the low-level rouge archers. A plan which mainly unravelled due to Roy's constant bad luck.
d) This is more a matter of opinion. Roy's strategy was to lure the gaurds away and massacre the ogres in their sleep. Miko's strategy was to lure them all in one place, then bombard the area with magical death and hope she could get away. Depending on how much you confidence you have in Miko's abilities, and also that jump is a cc-skill for a paladin, I would've sided with Roy.
e) And, to be completly honest, I have to ask, what is Nale's main goal? With all sincerity, besides "Getting revenge on Oots", I don't see one. If anything, this just goes to show that Nale has a good bluff and Roy needs some Sense Motive.

[krossbow]

I have to respectfully disagree here.
d) This is more a matter of opinion. Roy's strategy was to lure the gaurds away and massacre the ogres in their sleep. Miko's strategy was to lure them all in one place, then bombard the area with magical death and hope she could get away. Depending on how much you confidence you have in Miko's abilities, and also that jump is a cc-skill for a paladin, I would've sided with Roy.




Doesn't need jump; she has evasion. started out with monk levels, remember?

[GoldenKitsune]

Doesn't need jump; she has evasion. started out with monk levels, remember?

Evasion can only be used if wearing light or no armour. I may be wrong, but I think Miko has heavier than light armour. Atleast, I've never seen shoulderpads/mantles like hers on light armour.

[Enlong]

Of course Roy is smart! He's also wise! he's a veritable brain turky!

[Tmabbbb]

I don't have that book, nor do I know what unit of measure Kelvin is, but I strongly believe that Roy isn't actually as smart as he looks. I have a thread about Elan being smarter than Roy, with about 13 percent agreeing, but it got lost. So, I will reiterate my argument, but talk mostly about Roy, opposed to Elan, as this thread does not involve Elan. I believe saying something about Roy not noticing any of the things that occur near him, such as the CPPD Chief's death, Nale switching with Elan, the big fight scene going on, Sabine escaping, his problem with his question to the Oracle, probably Belkar being charmed, singing, and killing Durkon; the Linear Guild even being near, etc. I also voiced numerous reasons why Elan would be smart and insightful, such as remembering Durkon, saying there were 3 gates, escaping from jail, managing to defeat Nale and Thog in the first fight, defeating Nale in the third fight, eventually understanding Haley, understanding Samantha from the guards' conversation, developing a successful plan to escape the assassins in the Weary Adventurers Inn, (or at least I think it is called that), etc. Anyways, about Roy, what intellegent things does he do? He is the leader, so he should be making plans. Let's see what he did:

Fight with Nale: :roy: Grab your bizzaro twin and beat the living hell out of them!!

Fight with Xykon: :roy: V, start blasting. Durkon, start turning undead. Belkar, protect the casters. (He also got a couple of buffs)

Fight with bandits: :roy: I'll pack my gear and go save the party!

Fight with Miko: :roy: (nothing)

Fight with ogres: :roy: (nothing)

Fight with assassins: :roy: Durkon, now that Elan is healed, take him and find Miko. Tell her there are two killers on the loose in the inn and you need her help evacuating the civilians.

Fight with Nale (2): :roy: V take Durkon, and cover for me in the street. Haley, find a rooftop position to snipe from. Elan, hide as best you can.

Fight with Nale (3): :roy: (nothing)

[Tiako]

I have to respectfully disagree here.

a) In the dungeon Roy used tactics; choosing to avoid fights with large groups if possible, and he discussed tactics with Thog while trying to reach the eath sigil.
b) When fighting Xykon Roy's strategy was for Belkar to protect the casters while they took care of goblin/zombie mobs while he took out Xykon.
c) Also, in the fight to save his team from the bandits he strategy was for V and Haley to take out the Samantha while he took out all the low-level rouge archers. A plan which mainly unravelled due to Roy's constant bad luck.
d) This is more a matter of opinion. Roy's strategy was to lure the gaurds away and massacre the ogres in their sleep. Miko's strategy was to lure them all in one place, then bombard the area with magical death and hope she could get away. Depending on how much you confidence you have in Miko's abilities, and also that jump is a cc-skill for a paladin, I would've sided with Roy.
e) And, to be completly honest, I have to ask, what is Nale's main goal? With all sincerity, besides "Getting revenge on Oots", I don't see one. If anything, this just goes to show that Nale has a good bluff and Roy needs some Sense Motive.

a) In the dungeon he used the Employee Exit (Something that can't be laid at his feet) and V's idea to go invisible (And we know how well that worked, but again, no fault of his). Then the goblin squirts also can't be credited to him. also, discussing tactics with Thog isn't much, especially since we don't know what he said.

b)Yeah, again, not really Alexander the Great there. Using a melee to protect the casters is pretty basic stuff.

c) That is really all that could be done. Essentially, no tactics.

d) Roy's plan was highly risky, because if the ogres were detected then it would fall apart. Miko's, on the other hand, was quite good.

e) Roy didn't consider that Nale's greatest interest was Elan. And his plan was, if I might say, retarded. It was essentially "Well, I'll walk into the trap and assume Nale will screw up".


Of course Roy is smart! He's also wise! he's a veritable brain turky!
Touche.

[krossbow]

Evasion can only be used if wearing light or no armour. I may be wrong, but I think Miko has heavier than light armour. Atleast, I've never seen shoulderpads/mantles like hers on light armour.


she could be wearing mithral medium armor; that would allow it I believe.

[Demented]

Roy's habit of skipping encounters probably isn't all that helpful. Surely the XP would be handy, right? Assuming they even get exp from such low-level encounters. Even so, I'd say the Employee's Exit is a creative enough method to accomplish that goal. 'Up a level/down a level' arguments notwithstanding.

As far as Miko's versus Roy's plans, we've seen several of Roy's and one of Miko's. Miko's plan would've fallen apart if the spells had nuked her, or the ogres had not displayed the intelligence of wisdom-drained bunnies.

Roy's plans, on the other hand, are typically just "business as usual", combined with a little reactive freedom. Probably because he expects any plan he makes to fall apart thanks to the combined efforts of his teammates and the unexpected results of combat. Which is usually how it goes, unsurprisingly. (Seriously now. Tetherball special?)

If anyone shows a good knack for plans, it's Belkar. (Admit it, that's a pretty efficient way to wipe out the dirt farmers.) He just tends to forget crucial elements... such as the need for 5000 GP worth of diamonds.

[Amon Star]

To all those who say :roy: isn't that smart, just look at the way he takes out this Cheese-Machine;

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0216.html

However, I admit he isn't as smart as he thinks he is. Also, he would be alot more observant if he pulled his head from his own a**.

[pita]

:elan:, :belkar:, and :durkon: should work together on a plan. The efficiency of :belkar: and :elan:'s plans along with :durkon:'s wisdom (to compensate for the other's lack of said wisdom) is going to make a plan that will involve a happy ending, some killing of Miko, some going back to your homeland, and a certain four words.

[Querzis]

Well Roy doesnt especially look smart so he is smarter then he look actually. Anyway, I have read pretty much all your arguments and I think I can counter them with one sentence : Roy is a man of action and he like it simple, which doesnt make him idiot or unwise. Seriously, why would he do a plan before attacking every goblin group? He make plan when its necessary and they work but most of the time he improvise and he is really good at improvisation . Why would he need to say anything else then : «V start blasting, durkon start healing, belkar protect the caster and Haley snipe from a roof»? Thats pretty much what they have to do to win that battle. Beside he got people to kill too, hes not a general who stay behind a battle and give order, he is the leader of a 5 people. He is fighting too so doing any other stategy in the middle of battle would be dangerous for is friend and it would be stupid! He is not supposed to do anything else then shout 2 or 3 orders while killing goblins. And as far as doing plan before battle, the only time he actually knew what he was gonna fight (the ogres) he didnt trully have the time to put is plan in action (it was simple plan but it was good).

What the hell do you expect him to do except getting some buff before entering Xykon room?What the hell do you expect him to do before entering the warehouse, he dont know what Nale plan is and he know its a trap but the only possible way to save is sister is by doing exactly what Nale said. And the question he asked to the Oracle was smart, the Oracle already tricked him so he had to do a question with only two possible answer. Sure he didnt though about Azure city gate but nobody ever though Xykon could get to Azure city. He is, as a matter of fact, the only one who though that it could be Azure city gate after Elan comments. Seriously, most of the time you say he was stupid I think it was pretty smart. I seriously dont see any time he was an idiot (except maybe with Miko but he was thinking with is Trouser titan, I can understand that.)

[Learnedguy]

I'm curious, people seem to be complaining about Roys tactical sense, but I don't get it. Charging, is there something that it doesn't solve?
Seemed like a smart idea to me.

What do you expect, Macgyver?

[pita]

I don't know...
I've come up with plans.
He could've just attacked Xykon with his sword instead of letting him attack first, thus leaving Roy with his sword, and making him able to beat Miko the second time.

[Querzis]

I don't know...
I've come up with plans.
He could've just attacked Xykon with his sword instead of letting him attack first, thus leaving Roy with his sword, and making him able to beat Miko the second time.

So in other word you would have done everything Roy did but you woudnt have let Xykon attack first and its supposed to be a plan? He let Xykon attack first because he is arrogant and didnt expect Xykon to know (thank to the goblin teenager) that is sword could destroy him in one hit.

[Demented]

Or that Xykon would've just shattered it anyway. Sometimes, you (foolishly) rely on the fact that your sword, as a quest item and heirloom, is going to survive the day. The BBEG, however, has more significant priorities. He's a level 20 sorceror turned lich! Some pissy level 12 fighter is of no concern, and the heirloom might as well be just another sword.

Not to mention that I doubt Xykon has less hit dice than Roy does, so disruption wouldn't have helped.

"Also, he would be alot more observant if he pulled his head from his own a**."
So true it hurts!

[Leather_Book_Wizard]

A wizard did it.


Quoted for truth.

[ClericofPhwarrr]

I don't know...
I've come up with plans.
He could've just attacked Xykon with his sword instead of letting him attack first, thus leaving Roy with his sword, and making him able to beat Miko the second time.

Xykon won initiative. He's the BBEG, that's to be expected.

[krossbow]

If roy was REALLY smart, he would of had Durkon buff himself into the stratsphere, with aid from V, and then opened the door. Juggernaut B***!


Seriously, he would of been so insanely powerful thanks to rightous might, bull's endurance, bear's strength, shield of faith, and other spells that he would of been able to simply bullrush to Xycon and beat him into a pulp.



But that's more of a lesson in Cleric's extreme power than tactics.
________
Vaporgenie vaporizer (http://vaporizers.net/vapor-genie)

[Demented]

Durkon stealing the thunder away from Roy, the main character? *gasp*
I'm fairly sure they indoctrinate fighters in Fighter College to deny any possibility that a caster could supercede them in melee.

[hanzo66]

Well, Roy may not be a tactical genius and/or a master strategist of battle, but he is for the most part intelligent enough to choose mostly logical decisions and has few of the less-beneficial traits of the Order (Belkar's instability, Haley's greed, Elan's simple-mindedness, V's lack of charisma/drawn-out manner and Durkon's fear of trees).

He's not perfect but he is fairly competent in his duties and has a fairly loyal team save for Belkar (then again, Belkar's not exactly one to be willingly loyal to anyone).

[teratorn]

Now, The problem here is bolded, which is that, Kelvin don't use degrees, the unit is Kelvin or "K" NOT º K like with ºC or ºF.
Sorry, as a physicist can't resist. Since we are nitpicking, when writing about the unit one should use kelvin or kelvins, Kelvin is for the temperature scale. But Roy is not talking with one of his peers, so he would use casual tongue to make his point.

About Roy not being good with strategy, let's not forget his team. There is no way that a complex strategy would work with Belkar and Elan involved in it. Roy is in fact too smart for his own good and often lacks common sense, but his real problem is that he doesn't trust any team member except Durkon. These words Roy said to Durkon sum it up:

"The rogue is ambitious and greedy,
the ranger is a complete psychopath,
the wizard is trigger-happy and never stops talking,
and the bard is as dumb as a box of moldy carrots"

[Amon Star]

"Also, he would be alot more observant if he pulled his head from his own a**."
So true it hurts!

Thank you. :smallcool:

[Sir_Norbert]

e) Roy didn't consider that Nale's greatest interest was Elan.
Yup, that really makes him stupid. Anyone with any intelligence in his position would have gone on the Web and read all the strips Nale appears in so as to find out vital information that we as the readers know but he has no way of knowing......

[TinSoldier]

Yup, that really makes him stupid. Anyone with any intelligence in his position would have gone on the Web and read all the strips Nale appears in so as to find out vital information that we as the readers know but he has no way of knowing......I think you just overloaded my sarcasm-detector!

Great. Now I've got to get a new one :smallbiggrin: .

[pita]

Those things are really expensive.
I hate getting them cleaned after they explode.

[Corolinth]

Plus, Roy isn't sitting in Science class every day anymore, like you may or may not be. It's been years since he's had a science class, and with all the bonus feats he's got, he's gotta get rid of the useless information to make room for the new stuff.I'm majoring in mechanical engineering and I missed that nitpick, too.

[Setra]

Those things are really expensive.
I hate getting them cleaned after they explode.

If you come to my house you better turn it off then, the average sarcasm rating is over fifty thousand sarcawatts.