How would this magic system effect the world?

[qwertyu63]

The magic system is as follows, and the title asks my question for me:

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Color-Name Magic:

To affect someone with magic requires you to know their actual name, and one of the following things: their face, their current location or an alias they are currently using. You need not have line-of-sight or line of effect, and there is no range limit. You can never target yourself with a spell.

When someone is born, they don't have an actual name until someone names them using pure grey magic. If someone doesn't have an actual name, you can effect them without needing it.

If no living creature but your target knows your target's actual name (it doesn't matter if your target knows it or not), you can target them without needing to know their actual name.

Each sentient being has a willpower score equal to the number of spells they know plus the number of pure spells they know (in effect, pure spells count double for your willpower total). If the target has a higher willpower then you, they can resist your spells. If your willpower is greater than or equal to the target's, they can't resist your spell. If you cast a spell that can be resisted, you are not notified if your target resisted or not. Resisting is optional, if you want to be affected for some reason.

When someone affects/tries to affect you with a spell, your eyes glow the color of that spell for a brief moment. You can not see this glow, but others near you can. The glow fades away a brief moment later, but your eyes remain that color for a until you receive another spell.

To cast a spell, you must first learn it. It takes 1 month to learn the off version of a color. It takes 2 months to learn the part version of a color, and you can't learn the part version unless you first learn the off version. It takes 3 months to learn the pure version of a color, and you can't learn the pure version unless you first learn the part version.

The time spent learning a spell is spent in a trance, immune from all harm (including magical harm) and not needing food, water or air but still growing older. Entering this learning trance merely requires knowledge of how to enter it, and can be done by any sentient being. Once you enter the trance, you can not leave until it is over. Once you leave this trance, you can not return to it for 1 month.

It takes 5 seconds to cast a spell, which is purely a verbal action. There is no limit to how many spells you can cast in a day (other than the amount of time in the day), nor is there a limit to the number of spells you can learn (other than the number of spells that exist and the time you have to learn them). To concentrate on a spell requires you to focus on the spell. While concentrating on a spell, you can not cast any spells or engage in any strenuous physical or mental activity.

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Black:

* Off Black: Inflict a minor curse on your target, for as long as you concentrate and 1 minute thereafter.
* Part Black: Kill your target, unless they can resist.
* Pure Black: Channel a spirit of death, killing the next person your target touches within 1 minute. The person touched can resist.

White:

* Off White: Speed up recovery from sickness, disease and viruses.
* Part White: Heal your target of wounds.
* Pure White: Regenerate missing limbs of your target.

Grey:

* Off Grey: Find the name of your target.
* Part Grey: Flag the target, alerting you next time their name changes.
* Pure Grey: Name or re-name your target.

Blue:

* Off Blue: Remove magical effects from your target, ending any "for as long as you concentrate" effects.
* Part Blue: Negate all spells of the chosen color your target is targeted by, for as long as you concentrate.
* Pure Blue: Bounce the next spell of the chosen color your target is targeted by, effecting the caster with it instead.

Red:

* Off Red: Determine your target's emotional state, for as long as you concentrate.
* Part Red: Remove any emotion from the target, unless they can resist, for as long as you concentrate and 1 minute thereafter.
* Pure Red: Alter your target's emotions, unless they can resist, for as long as you concentrate.

Green:

* Off Green: Increase your target's physical power, for as long as you concentrate and 1 minute thereafter.
* Part Green: Increase your target's physical speed, for as long as you concentrate and 1 minute thereafter.
* Pure Green: Minorly shapeshift your target into any form their species can normally take.

Purple:

* Off Purple: Send a mental message to your target.
* Part Purple: See what your target is seeing, for as long as you concentrate.
* Pure Purple: Read the mind of your target, for as long as you concentrate and 3 minutes thereafter, unless they can resist.

Yellow:

* Off Yellow: Divine the location of your target.
* Part Yellow: Levitate your target around, for as long as you concentrate.
* Pure Yellow: Teleport to your target, along with up 2 two touched people. Touched people can resist.

Orange:

* Off Orange: Expand your targets senses so they can sense distances and passing time in great detail, for as long as you concentrate.
* Part Orange: Call one memory to your targets mind, allowing them to remember it in great detail.
* Full Orange: Wipe your targets mind of one memory, unless they can resist.


Pink:

* Off Pink: Your target is apathetic to you, for as long as you concentrate and 1 minute thereafter, unless they can resist.
* Part Pink: Everyone can understand what your target says, for as long as you concentrate.
* Pure Pink: Your target views you as a friend, for as long as you concentrate and 3 minutes thereafter, unless they can resist.

Brown:

* Off Brown: Shield your target from changing temperatures, allowing them to endure heat and cold for as long as you concentrate and 1 minute thereafter.
* Part Brown: Protect your target from physical attack, increasing their defenses for as long as you concentrate and 1 minute thereafter.
* Pure Brown: Your target is completely invincible from all non-magical harm for as long as you concentrate and 1 minute thereafter.

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Color gems (major artifacts):
These are a set of small magical gems that greatly enhance the power of the holder. Each gem allows you to ignore the requirement to know your target's name for spells of its color. The gems (and the colors attached to them) are as follows:

* Onyx of Death: Black
* Diamond of Purity: White
* Sapphire of Counters: Blue
* Ruby of Rage: Red
* Emerald of Force: Green
* Amethyst of Mind: Purple
* Topaz of Position: Yellow
* Amber of Memory: Orange
* Garnet of Friends: Pink
* Axinite of Guard: Brown

It is also known that there used to exist a gem called the Moonstone of Names, which applied to Grey magic. It was destroyed long ago, but no-one knows how. It is also unknown how the gems were created.

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Name of the Soul:
Magic bears immense power. By channeling your soul through special words, you can unleash a powerful magic upon anyone, with no limits on range. Simply say the words and uniquely identify your target; for example, imagine their face or say their name. However, none can cast this power upon themselves.

There are ways to defend against magic: the most powerful is putting a special name on your soul; this powerful secret means only those who know this name can target you with magic. When born, you have no soul name and therefore no protection.

Secrets only have power if they are shared. Those who know your soul name are known as your Keepers. If you have no Keepers, your soul name offers you no protection; you can targeted as if you didn't have one. You never count as your own Keeper.

Anyone can learn any spell by entering what is known as a learning trance, simply by knowing how. Once in this trance, you are totally immune from all harm and do not need to eat, drink, breath or sleep until it ends. The trance lasts for 1 month and can not be stopped once it begins; once it ends, you can't return for 1 month.

Some spells require learning others before you can understand them. If a spell has another spell listed in parentheses after its name, you must know the named spell to learn the spell with it listed.

Knowledge is power. The more spells you know, the more magic power you have. Your Willpower is equal to the number of spells you know. If a spell can be resisted, it has no effect on you if your Willpower is greater than the caster's Willpower; you are effected if they are the same.

Spells:
Expose: You learn your target's soul name.
-Rebrand (Expose): You change your target's soul name to whatever you wish.
Shield: Choose one or more spells you know; the next three times your target would be hit with one of those spells, negate it.
-Reflect (Shield): Choose one or more spells you know; the next time your target would be hit with one of those spells, reflect it back upon the caster.
Channel: Choose a spell you know; the next person your target touches is affected by that spell as if you cast it. For unknown reasons, Expose and Rebrand can not be chosen.
Willfocus: Your target's Willpower is increased by two for five minutes.

Painlash: Your target suffers great pain; this spell can be resisted.
-Sleepword (Painlash): Your target instantly falls unconscious; this spell can be resisted.
--Gravehand (Sleepword): Your target instantly dies; this spell can be resisted.
Weakness: Your target becomes weak for five minutes; this spell can be resisted.
Slowness: Your target becomes slow for five minutes; this spell can be resisted.
Mindfog: Your target forgets one chosen thing; this spell can be resisted.

Swiftwind: Your target is much faster for five minutes.
-Skydraft (Swiftwind): Your target can fly for five minutes.
Stonefist: Your target is much stronger for five minutes.
-Untouchable (Stonefist): Your target is immune to physical harm for five minutes.
Mending: Your target is healed of all injuries.
-Purge (Mending): Your target is cured of all disease and poison.


Assume this is the only magic system in world it is in.

[D-naras]

First of, how does one learn a color? By studying? Do they go in schools? Regardless, everyone would use fake names, and the only people that should know other's names, would be the name givers. No real name would be documented, only passed on verbaly, and only to people you totally trust.
All in all, this would be a really paranoid world, since anyone can harm someone they have seen as long as they know their names. Even if you ban all harmful magic, people would still hide their names. I suppose Gray mages would be either filthy rich or killed really fast, to ensure their knowledge stays hidden.

[qwertyu63]

First of, how does one learn a color? By studying? Do they go in schools? Regardless, everyone would use fake names, and the only people that should know other's names, would be the name givers. No real name would be documented, only passed on verbaly, and only to people you totally trust.
All in all, this would be a really paranoid world, since anyone can harm someone they have seen as long as they know their names. Even if you ban all harmful magic, people would still hide their names. I suppose Gray mages would be either filthy rich or killed really fast, to ensure their knowledge stays hidden.

Learning spells merely requires you to know the spell exists and what it does. Then you spend the time figuring out how to do it.

The idea of protecting your name and using fake names is the main reason behind this line:


If no living creature but your target knows your target's name (it doesn't matter if your target knows it or not), you can target them without needing to know their name.

You can't keep it from everyone, or anyone can cast at you. But who can you trust? Things getting paranoid is exactly what I wanted.

The name givers would have to be grey mages. It also seems warfare would come down to "kill the enemy name givers, then black magic away everyone; protect our name givers".

[D-naras]

Learning spells merely requires you to know the spell exists and what it does. Then you spend the time figuring out how to do it.

The idea of protecting your name and using fake names is the main reason behind this line:



You can't keep it from everyone, or anyone can cast at you. But who can you trust? Things getting paranoid is exactly what I wanted.

The name givers would have to be grey mages. It also seems warfare would come down to "kill the enemy name givers, then black magic away everyone; protect our name givers".

In that case, the gray mages must be the leaders, since they can rename people. Everyone would give their names to them by default, and everyone would be at their mercy. Perhaps they will form some kind of bond with their guardians so they can ward them with magic in case someone did find their names. Like, each gray mage has a number of trusted bodyguards that all share their names with each other. Of course, such people have to be utterly devoted to their gray mage. Like zealots and their religious leader.

[qwertyu63]

In that case, the gray mages must be the leaders, since they can rename people. Everyone would give their names to them by default, and everyone would be at their mercy. Perhaps they will form some kind of bond with their guardians so they can ward them with magic in case someone did find their names. Like, each gray mage has a number of trusted bodyguards that all share their names with each other. Of course, such people have to be utterly devoted to their gray mage. Like zealots and their religious leader.

Playing a bit of devil's advocate, nothing is stopping someone from betraying their grey mage to another grey mage. I imagine such a traitor would be rewarded well, and the other grey mage can rename you to protect you from the mage you just betrayed. Or even a splinter group of two grey mages who rename each other, granting near immunity to magic as long as your ally is trustworthy.

Also, in your layout... who knows the grey mage's name? This is a fun thing to talk (well, type) about, I might have to open a world-building thread.

[D-naras]

Playing a bit of devil's advocate, nothing is stopping someone from betraying their grey mage to another grey mage. I imagine such a traitor would be rewarded well, and the other grey mage can rename you to protect you from the mage you just betrayed. Or even a splinter group of two grey mages who rename each other, granting near immunity to magic as long as your ally is trustworthy.

Also, in your layout... who knows the grey mage's name? This is a fun thing to talk (well, type) about, I might have to open a world-building thread.

I think traitors like that would get blacked instead of grayed (this IS fun! :smallbiggrin:), just because if they did it once, they can do it again.

In my proposal, the gray mage and his guardians would know the names of all others in their cluster, so they can blue each other, or even black if it comes to that. It even works in combat. One of the group goes to fight, while the others just blue him all the time. I bet they will call such duels Blue Eyed fights or something similar.

[qwertyu63]

I think traitors like that would get blacked instead of grayed (this IS fun! :smallbiggrin:), just because if they did it once, they can do it again.

In my proposal, the gray mage and his guardians would know the names of all others in their cluster, so they can blue each other, or even black if it comes to that. It even works in combat. One of the group goes to fight, while the others just blue him all the time. I bet they will call such duels Blue Eyed fights or something similar.

Ah, rewarded as a traitor deserves. You have no idea how hard it was to not link that to the trope.

So the guardians know the grey mages name as well? Interesting. A duel where each side is covered in magical defences, and likely buffs from green magic as well. Sounds awesome.

And what of the gems? I had the grey one be destroyed in the past because it was too good, but what of the other 7? That and there are no good grey gems.

I also had the idea of making the exchanging of names between the bride and groom be part of marriage ceremonies as well, as you should trust your spouse. That and a trio of people who know each others name who use yellow magic to teleport goods from place to place, if enough trust can be built up.

[Quellian-dyrae]

If both mirrors and glasses exist on this world, I would imagine a pair of glasses with partially-mirrored lenses (or maybe a mirrored monocle?) would be invented and commonly available.

You know, this sort of setting would probably go well with lots of different ways things are done. In one kingdom, off-color magic may be taught in schools. One kingdom might have the father learn Pure Gray magic when the mother conceives, so by around the time she gives birth, he can name the child. One might have gray mages as unquestioned rulers who give names and basically own their people as a result, while others may have them have to give their own names up to the government to have that kind of power. Another may have that be the law for all mages, or just a custom in general that everyone tells their true name, going with a whole mutually-assured-destruction (backed by "hey, there's a lot of cool stuff we can do for each other if we do know each other's names" stuff). Maybe some people go around wearing veils or masks all the time to get around the know your face issue. Sheesh, there's a lot of different ways it can go. It's a pretty cool idea, actually!

[D-naras]

So the guardians know the grey mages name as well? Interesting. A duel where each side is covered in magical defences, and likely buffs from green magic as well. Sounds awesome.

And what of the gems? I had the grey one be destroyed in the past because it was too good, but what of the other 7? That and there are no good grey gems.

I also had the idea of making the exchanging of names between the bride and groom be part of marriage ceremonies as well, as you should trust your spouse. That and a trio of people who know each others name who use yellow magic to teleport goods from place to place, if enough trust can be built up.

Well, the gems are superweapons of course. Having one makes the gray mages obsolete and they dont want that. Unless they have it, in which case they can use it's powers to conquer other gray mages. The gems should make for good plot devices, like the One Ring, since having one will make you a major target of every power in the world.

The bride and groom will have to exchange names in secret of course. Yellow can work for that, assuming it allows the mage to transfer great loads.
How does this magic work with things? Like rocks, metal, or plants and animals?
I would prefer it, if it only works with people, because then it will be much like our world, only PARANOID. Magic will be rediculously useful in war, politics, religion and espionage. Things that an adventure should be about.

[qwertyu63]

If both mirrors and glasses exist on this world, I would imagine a pair of glasses with partially-mirrored lenses (or maybe a mirrored monocle?) would be invented and commonly available.

You know, this sort of setting would probably go well with lots of different ways things are done. In one kingdom, off-color magic may be taught in schools. One kingdom might have the father learn Pure Gray magic when the mother conceives, so by around the time she gives birth, he can name the child. One might have gray mages as unquestioned rulers who give names and basically own their people as a result, while others may have them have to give their own names up to the government to have that kind of power. Another may have that be the law for all mages, or just a custom in general that everyone tells their true name, going with a whole mutually-assured-destruction (backed by "hey, there's a lot of cool stuff we can do for each other if we do know each other's names" stuff). Maybe some people go around wearing veils or masks all the time to get around the know your face issue. Sheesh, there's a lot of different ways it can go. It's a pretty cool idea, actually!

Ooh, I like these ideas. The schools that are teaching off-color would likely leave out off-grey, if just because off-grey has no use. (Also, side note: off-grey has no use because I can't think of one. any ideas?) The idea of fathers learning pure grey and having it done that way is a really neat idea.

The idea of hiding your face as well never really occurred to me, but it likely should have, seeing as this is a world where anyone could have the equivalent of a Death Note.


Well, the gems are superweapons of course. Having one makes the gray mages obsolete and they dont want that. Unless they have it, in which case they can use it's powers to conquer other gray mages. The gems should make for good plot devices, like the One Ring, since having one will make you a major target of every power in the world.

The bride and groom will have to exchange names in secret of course. Yellow can work for that, assuming it allows the mage to transfer great loads.
How does this magic work with things? Like rocks, metal, or plants and animals?
I would prefer it, if it only works with people, because then it will be much like our world, only PARANOID. Magic will be rediculously useful in war, politics, religion and espionage. Things that an adventure should be about.

Obviously the exchange of names would be in secret, but the idea is you trust them enough to share your name (that and so they can use white/blue magic on you if you need it).

Yellow magic takes everything the caster is carrying with them, but they should be able to get a good speed up, blinking between two points in a loop.

This magic can only target living, intelligent creatures. Rocks, birds, swords, you can't target.

[Amechra]

How well do you need to know someone's face? If someone were to, say, walk around with a thin silk blindfold on, would that block the effect?

I see a lot of masks and veils, along with some sort of indicator so that people know who they are dealing with (I like the idea of a sash with ribbons of the different colors and markings hanging off it; someone who had studied Off-Black might get a brown ribbon bordered with black, while a master of Pure Black might be a solid black ribbon.)

Also, I'd study up Pure Green; it can alter someone's face, after all. Someone who knows Pure Green and Pure Green could practically get away with anything (they can change their name and face every day, after all).

[qwertyu63]

How well do you need to know someone's face? If someone were to, say, walk around with a thin silk blindfold on, would that block the effect?

I see a lot of masks and veils, along with some sort of indicator so that people know who they are dealing with (I like the idea of a sash with ribbons of the different colors and markings hanging off it; someone who had studied Off-Black might get a brown ribbon bordered with black, while a master of Pure Black might be a solid black ribbon.)

Also, I'd study up Pure Green; it can alter someone's face, after all. Someone who knows Pure Green and Pure Green could practically get away with anything (they can change their name and face every day, after all).

If you can see their face well enough to draw it, you know it well enough to target them. A transparent material won't cut it.

Ribbons showing status sounds cool. A short twirl displaying your ribbons would be enough scare off some foes.

And you spot the trick for green magic. Yes, changing your face is a valid move.

[Quellian-dyrae]

Ooh that's a good point, you couldn't keep a Gray Mage in check by forcing them to give you their name, since they could just change it...huh.

[D-naras]

Then perhaps Off-Gray makes you remember a person's face even if it changes? Either through magic, or age, or disfigurement. It could also alert you if the target changed his name, or face. This effect should be resisted of course. And since you dont know whether they resist or not, you are extra paranoid!

[qwertyu63]

Ooh that's a good point, you couldn't keep a Gray Mage in check by forcing them to give you their name, since they could just change it...huh.

Which leads to the strongest move being to rename someone without telling them their new name.


Then perhaps Off-Gray makes you remember a person's face even if it changes? Either through magic, or age, or disfigurement. It could also alert you if the target changed his name, or face. This effect should be resisted of course. And since you dont know whether they resist or not, you are extra paranoid!

Who would this work? Setting up an alert for the next time one of those things changes? Effects that persist need to have an ending.

[D-naras]

Who would this work? Setting up an alert for the next time one of those things changes? Effects that persist need to have an ending.

How long does altering your face last? Or any Pure Green effect for that matter?
Perhaps Off-Gray just registers the target in your mind like a file with that person's name and face. If either changes, you know that it changed and the file is useless now. So you better worry about that. :smallamused:

[qwertyu63]

How long does altering your face last? Or any Pure Green effect for that matter?
Perhaps Off-Gray just registers the target in your mind like a file with that person's name and face. If either changes, you know that it changed and the file is useless now. So you better worry about that. :smallamused:

Pure Green is (to borrow from the D&D vocabulary) instantaneous. It can only change you to be something that your species can be. So it can change your face to be another one, or change your sex, or give you large muscles, but it can't cause you to sprout wings, or claws, or extra arms (unless your species can have those, in which case those are fair game).

That idea for off-grey works. Off to note it down.

[toapat]

Thing is, heres a way you could break the entire system:


A grey mage, and their spouse, converts everyone (no exceptions). using both grey and green disciplines, within their kingdom, into exact duplicates of either the male or female mage.

assuming this is third, the clones litterally are immune to all types of magic that holds any form of resistance, and any types which bypass resistance must still deal with a hive mind.


Purple magic could even be used to confer a hive mind between every member of this nation, meaning that instead of say, 10000 level 1 warriors in the army, you have 10000 level 11 fighter/11 Wizard/11 cleric gestalts in the army, utterly loyal to eachother. The hive mind would of course be established extremely early so that the will save vs joining would not be overwhelmed.


Early on, they cant bind the necessary additional disciplines, but later, the hive mind would confer such massive DC bonuses that even epic level casters would be assimilated.




Individuality is perhaps, the most dangerous thing in the entire setting




Basically, this whole system is epic for adding in Fantasy borg

[TuggyNE]

The main thing about this system seems to be that magic here is wildly destabilizing and requires a great deal of care to set up metastable states where society is kept in balance. No single arrangement is really guaranteed to work or be adopted, though, so you can pretty much pick which of a bunch of different possibilities you want to try.

[toapat]

The main thing about this system seems to be that magic here is wildly destabilizing and requires a great deal of care to set up metastable states where society is kept in balance. No single arrangement is really guaranteed to work or be adopted, though, so you can pretty much pick which of a bunch of different possibilities you want to try.

Hive mind, see my first post in the topic

[qwertyu63]

Thing is, heres a way you could break the entire system:

A grey mage, and their spouse, converts everyone (no exceptions). using both grey and green disciplines, within their kingdom, into exact duplicates of either the male or female mage.

assuming this is third, the clones litterally are immune to all types of magic that holds any form of resistance, and any types which bypass resistance must still deal with a hive mind.

Let me stop you right there, how are you making a hive mind? I presume purple magic is involved somewhere... Also, this does not yet have a game system, but I don't think 3.5 would work.


Blue magic could even be used to confer a hive mind between every member of this nation, meaning that instead of say, 10000 level 1 warriors in the army, you have 10000 level 11 fighter/11 Wizard/11 cleric gestalts in the army, utterly loyal to eachother. The hive mind would of course be established extremely early so that the will save vs joining would not be overwhelmed.

Uh... Blue magic can't do that. It can provide physical and magical defenses. Purple can't do that either. It can read minds and send mental messages.

That and the spells listed in the first post are the only spells out there. There is no wizard class. Anyone can go and learn the spells, the only cost is time (which is why it doesn't work in 3.5).


Early on, they cant bind the necessary additional disciplines, but later, the hive mind would confer such massive DC bonuses that even epic level casters would be assimilated.

Basically, this whole system is epic for adding in Fantasy borg

What epic casters? Your level (if the system in use even has them) has no impact on what spells you can know.


The main thing about this system seems to be that magic here is wildly destabilizing and requires a great deal of care to set up metastable states where society is kept in balance. No single arrangement is really guaranteed to work or be adopted, though, so you can pretty much pick which of a bunch of different possibilities you want to try.

I know, the paranoia and destabilizing is intended. The idea here is to try and find some of those somewhat stable states.

[toapat]

Purple can't do that either. It can read minds and send mental messages.

edited, yes, i meant purple

and it is purple, because purple would allow for bi-directional communication (when one shares a name and face).

except, you are reading someone's mind who qualifies as yourself

get this permananced, and it will eat everyone who you force to undergo the process

[qwertyu63]

edited, yes, i meant purple

and it is purple, because purple would allow for bi-directional communication (when one shares a name and face).

except, you are reading someone's mind who qualifies as yourself

get this permananced, and it will eat everyone who you force to undergo the process

So, riddle me this. How are you getting anything permananced in this world, bearing in mind that the only spells in the world are the 16 in the first post?

[Mith]

So, riddle me this. How are you getting anything permananced in this world, bearing in mind that the only spells in the world are the 16 in the first post?

An idea on establishing a permanent effect could be to burn out your useage of that colour for the day to make it permanent. If you wish two way communication, you need both parties to invest in it.

Though I think thier should be a tax on the spells/day in that the more you use the more weary you become, with over use leading to exaustion, headaches, unconsciousness, death. Maybe even make different side effects for the different colours.

[Saidoro]

I can see grey magic as having a strong religious bent to it, children are Named immediately after being born with the name being told only to the parents.

Also, tattoos or scarification could be a relatively cheap and easy way of changing or even obscuring one's face. Imagine someone with a small tattoo on their jaw that they keep covered with makeup, or something.

The name givers would have to be grey mages. It also seems warfare would come down to "kill the enemy name givers, then black magic away everyone; protect our name givers".
Except that name magic has no real mass offensive applications under this system. It's great for assassinating individuals or healing allies, but it can't do much with mobs.

[qwertyu63]

An idea on establishing a permanent effect could be to burn out your useage of that colour for the day to make it permanent. If you wish two way communication, you need both parties to invest in it.

Though I think thier should be a tax on the spells/day in that the more you use the more weary you become, with over use leading to exaustion, headaches, unconsciousness, death. Maybe even make different side effects for the different colours.

It is intended that there are no permanent effects. It is also intended that you can use magic endlessly. So...


I can see grey magic as having a strong religious bent to it, children are Named immediately after being born with the name being told only to the parents.

Also, tattoos or scarification could be a relatively cheap and easy way of changing or even obscuring one's face. Imagine someone with a small tattoo on their jaw that they keep covered with makeup, or something.

Except that name magic has no real mass offensive applications under this system. It's great for assassinating individuals or healing allies, but it can't do much with mobs.

The first part makes perfect sense, and I already thought of names being told to parents by default.

If you keep the tattoo covered up, it doesn't count as part of your face. Think of the way Death Note handles it.

In that example, it was a cult-type set up where only the name-givers knew everyone's name, so killing them meant no-one knew the names and therefore it was open season.

[Amechra]

Meh, you could use Grey/Green to alter your name and face hourly. Hell, if truly paranoid, you could change it once a minute.

But hourly would be enough.

EDIT: Creepy question, but... what if someone doesn't have a face?

[Milo v3]

An idea on establishing a permanent effect could be to burn out your useage of that colour for the day to make it permanent. If you wish two way communication, you need both parties to invest in it.

Though I think thier should be a tax on the spells/day in that the more you use the more weary you become, with over use leading to exaustion, headaches, unconsciousness, death. Maybe even make different side effects for the different colours.

That just adds unnecessary complexity to a simple but interesting and efficient system.

[qwertyu63]

Meh, you could use Grey/Green to alter your name and face hourly. Hell, if truly paranoid, you could change it once a minute.

But hourly would be enough.

EDIT: Creepy question, but... what if someone doesn't have a face?

Then you would need to know what they have where they should have a face.

[Qwertystop]

Meh, you could use Grey/Green to alter your name and face hourly. Hell, if truly paranoid, you could change it once a minute.

But hourly would be enough.

EDIT: Creepy question, but... what if someone doesn't have a face?

Then they'll have trouble breathing, eating, seeing, speaking the spells... not exactly someone to worry about.

[Mith]

That just adds unnecessary complexity to a simple but interesting and efficient system.

I guess it does. I am just not used to the idea of a game style where as long as you get a good look at your foes, they are under your power.

[toapat]

I guess it does. I am just not used to the idea of a game style where as long as you get a good look at your foes, they are under your power.

which is why Identity is pretty much the first thing that such a setting would do away with. Less risky when your enemies literally cant target you

[qwertyu63]

I guess it does. I am just not used to the idea of a game style where as long as you get a good look at your foes, they are under your power.

But they aren't... you still need their name. And there in lies the problem.


which is why Identity is pretty much the first thing that such a setting would do away with. Less risky when your enemies literally cant target you

If someone lacks a name, anyone can target them.

[toapat]

If someone lacks a name, anyone can target them.

Lacking an identity is not lacking a name, nor is it lacking a face.

Everyone would have the same name, the same face because it is safer if your enemies simply cant aim the spell properly.


the logical extension of such an extreme measure is having a council permanently dedicated to maintaining permanent mindreading between all those who share said identity

[qwertyu63]

Lacking an identity is not lacking a name, nor is it lacking a face.

Everyone would have the same name, the same face because it is safer if your enemies simply cant aim the spell properly.

the logical extension of such an extreme measure is having a council permanently dedicated to maintaining permanent mindreading between all those who share said identity

Wrong. If two or more people share both a name and a face, a spell cast at one of them would hit all of them. 1 use of pure black and they are all destroyed. Not to mention, changing their body and name does not change their mind.

And there are still no permanent effects.

[toapat]

Wrong. If two or more people share both a name and a face, a spell cast at one of them would hit all of them. 1 use of pure black and they are all destroyed. Not to mention, changing their body and name does not change their mind.

And there are still no permanent effects.

you honestly seem to just be making these rules up as we debate this, in a tone that comes off moreso as immature DM then serious considerations

if black magic is able to kill, over a large group, reliably, then for all intents and purposes Magic wont exist in the setting, because one wizard would simply devastate all of civilization to the point where literacy, advanced tradeskills, and large scale co-operation will never occur for thousands of years, after which again black magic would be discovered, then do the exact same thing.

[qwertyu63]

you honestly seem to just be making these rules up as we debate this, in a tone that comes off moreso as immature DM then serious considerations

I am making up rules, as you do things the existing ones don't cover. The existing rules don't cover the idea of two or more people sharing a name/face combo, so I had to make something up.

It's either that or make them untargetable. And no-one is allowed to be untargetable. The point of the name/face combo is to be a unique identifier.


if black magic is able to kill, over a large group, reliably, then for all intents and purposes Magic wont exist in the setting, because one wizard would simply devastate all of civilization to the point where literacy, advanced tradeskills, and large scale co-operation will never occur for thousands of years, after which again black magic would be discovered, then do the exact same thing.

Black magic can only destroy large groups like that if they all share a name and face... so don't do that.

[toapat]

Black magic can only destroy large groups like that if they all share a name and face... so don't do that.

except that heres the "Immature DM"

Everything else i assumed that spells must "overwhelm" the target, and that the "Target" is assumed to be single target

so, when its hitting multiple targets due to the rather "blind fire" nature, because those targets share an identity, the power is significantly weakened, because its not dealing with one target, its dealing with 1, or 2, or 15, or 100, or 1,000,000.

at this point is where the system defines world politics.

Under the original conditions, because everything else was single target, i assumed the shared identity would contribute, effectively, a 10% more likely fail rate for every member (in other words, why i started in 3rd ed, using the Aid another action), because it has to influence more targets. Not that it would outright effect them equally.


this is why, once black magic is discovered, it basically is an inevitable annihilation of societal growth for thousands of years. you can either have the setting incapable of progressing past the bronze age, or the setting outright suppress all identity to protect itself, possibly on the level of creating permanent hiveminds through channeled purple magic

Purple magic would have to have some sort of duration to even function, because although most are Instantaneous, reading another's mind, isnt

[qwertyu63]

except that heres the "Immature DM"

Everything else i assumed that spells must "overwhelm" the target, and that the "Target" is assumed to be single target

Thus far you are kind of right, in that Pure Black and Pure Red spells can be resisted.


so, when its hitting multiple targets due to the rather "blind fire" nature, because those targets share an identity, the power is significantly weakened, because its not dealing with one target, its dealing with 1, or 2, or 15, or 100, or 1,000,000.

And this is where you go off track. Power is not divided. A separate copy of the spell is applied to each of them. (Although I was just thinking of having attempts to create a matching name/face pair fail, rather then go through all this mess)


Under the original conditions, because everything else was single target, i assumed the shared identity would contribute, effectively, a 10% more likely fail rate for every member (in other words, why i started in 3rd ed, using the Aid another action), because it has to influence more targets. Not that it would outright effect them equally.

The extra members would not contribute to it, any more then you could aid another on a saving throw. (nor should you be assuming 3rd edition anyway)


this is why, once black magic is discovered, it basically is an inevitable annihilation of societal growth for thousands of years. you can either have the setting incapable of progressing past the bronze age, or the setting outright suppress all identity to protect itself, possibly on the level of creating permanent hiveminds through channeled purple magic

Well, the latter outright doesn't work based on the way purple magic works, so...


Purple magic would have to have some sort of duration to even function, because although most are Instantaneous, reading another's mind, isnt

The way I had it in mind, it is Instantaneous. You discover the targets thoughts at that exact moment.

[toapat]

Power is not divided. A separate copy of the spell is applied to each of them.

You discover the targets thoughts at that exact moment.

1: this is where the entire system ends. If spells scale infinitely, then in order of who would be murdered by the first omnicidal wizard: Other wizards > The guys with good fort saves > Everyone remaining in proximity, If you cant protect yourself in actuality, such as by forcing the spell to vastly spread out, then no one can protect, anyone. Even with truenaming one's pseudonames still qualified if they were used often enough.


2: then purple magic has no value at all, because everyone will read simple, everyday needs or some snippet of a larger commentary, as opposed to actual thoughts, ideas, emotions, outlooks, and basically all that stuff you want to be poking at with mindreading.

[Saidoro]

And here I would have thought it would just be impossible to duplicate faces and names to the required precision.

[D-naras]

I will throw some suggestions out there, so you can streamline this idea.

First, no one can affect himself with a spell, only another.

Second, learning a spell is a process that only requires time, but during that time, the character can't do anything else. Learning the Off version, takes 3 months of supernatural stasis, in which the body is sustained by a supernatural force, is immune from all harm but it still groes old. The Pure version takes 9 months of the same meditation/stasis.

Third, a person's eyes permanently change color depending on the last spell that affected him. If he was affected with an Off version, one of his eyes turns in to that Off color. If he was affected with a Pure version, both of his eyes turn in to a distinct version of the color that affected him. If he is targeted with the same Off color spell twice, only one eye changes, not both.

The first suggestion adds to the paranoia and conspiracy vibe. You can't change your name or face alone, you need someone else to do it, and it won't be free.

The second is essentialy the cost for learning magic. A character tha masters all colors, can do it in privacy and safe from harm but will lose 8 years from his life. This leads to the old wizened wizard with the long beard naturaly. On the other hand, those that don't bother with magic or only master a few colors have more time to train and be better at mundane things like fighting, skill-monkeying etc.

The third suggestion is there to give clues about other characters. A man walking with one green eye has a green mage friend, while someone with 2 deep green eyes has been altered forever, branding him either as a criminal who changed identity or some kind of weirdo that wanted to look different. Having gray eyes should be VERY concerning for the individual because someone just changed your name, or at least memorised you for future magic.

[LordChaos13]

I will throw some suggestions out there, so you can streamline this idea.

First, no one can affect himself with a spell, only another.

Second, learning a spell is a process that only requires time, but during that time, the character can't do anything else. Learning the Off version, takes 3 months of supernatural stasis, in which the body is sustained by a supernatural force, is immune from all harm but it still groes old. The Pure version takes 9 months of the same meditation/stasis.

Third, a person's eyes permanently change color depending on the last spell that affected him. If he was affected with an Off version, one of his eyes turns in to that Off color. If he was affected with a Pure version, both of his eyes turn in to a distinct version of the color that affected him. If he is targeted with the same Off color spell twice, only one eye changes, not both.

The first suggestion adds to the paranoia and conspiracy vibe. You can't change your name or face alone, you need someone else to do it, and it won't be free.

The second is essentialy the cost for learning magic. A character tha masters all colors, can do it in privacy and safe from harm but will lose 8 years from his life. This leads to the old wizened wizard with the long beard naturaly. On the other hand, those that don't bother with magic or only master a few colors have more time to train and be better at mundane things like fighting, skill-monkeying etc.

The third suggestion is there to give clues about other characters. A man walking with one green eye has a green mage friend, while someone with 2 deep green eyes has been altered forever, branding him either as a criminal who changed identity or some kind of weirdo that wanted to look different. Having gray eyes should be VERY concerning for the individual because someone just changed your name, or at least memorised you for future magic.

You realize then that every Grey and Green mage will take White and simply chain them?
Having white eyes means you got in an accident recently, or a long time ago and never got another spell on you (which in a commoner's world is likely true)
Even if you add in the clause that said spell must have done something then all it takes is someone to go "Pure Grey. Hold out hand" *slices* "Pure White. Next please"

Impervious to harm for 3 months? I can totally see people using that when they are being attacked "Oh god Im going to die!" *starts learning Off-Purple* "Whew safe"
Perhaps simply 8 hours a day for 3/9 months hard studying.

Being impervious to self-cast is a great idea.


1: this is where the entire system ends. If spells scale infinitely, then in order of who would be murdered by the first omnicidal wizard: Other wizards > The guys with good fort saves > Everyone remaining in proximity, If you cant protect yourself in actuality, such as by forcing the spell to vastly spread out, then no one can protect, anyone. Even with truenaming one's pseudonames still qualified if they were used often enough.

Um what?
No, you have to find their GREY NAME. Not their pseudonames like a Truenamer, the specific name given via Pure Grey magic.
It cant be changed except via Grey Magic which requires either a (destroyed) artifact or the current name

This is lack arguing "Oh it's perfectly possible to share a password with anyone in the world. Therefore passwords are innately hackable."


The same goes for your assertions that Black magic will drive everyone back into the bronze age.
Sure if it is discovered before Grey then it is rather easy to slaughter hundreds but the second Grey is introduced and disseminated as a way around Black society recovers and snowballs.

[D-naras]

You realize then that every Grey and Green mage will take White and simply chain them?
Having white eyes means you got in an accident recently, or a long time ago and never got another spell on you (which in a commoner's world is likely true)
Even if you add in the clause that said spell must have done something then all it takes is someone to go "Pure Grey. Hold out hand" *slices* "Pure White. Next please"

Impervious to harm for 3 months? I can totally see people using that when they are being attacked "Oh god Im going to die!" *starts learning Off-Purple* "Whew safe"
Perhaps simply 8 hours a day for 3/9 months hard studying.

Being impervious to self-cast is a great idea.


Well If they can't target themselves, they can't chain anything. That's the point.:smalltongue:

Impervious to harm is also the point. You wake up months later, with long fingernails and hair, not knowing whether you are now a captive, still buried under rubble, 100 meters beneath the surface of the sea, or survived the fire. That also adds to the paranoia :smallbiggrin:

[qwertyu63]

And here I would have thought it would just be impossible to duplicate faces and names to the required precision.

I had this idea as well, but I was working with what I was given.


D-naras, I'm going to rearrange your post a bit, so I can respond in order.

I will throw some suggestions out there, so you can streamline this idea.

First, no one can affect himself with a spell, only another.

The first suggestion adds to the paranoia and conspiracy vibe. You can't change your name or face alone, you need someone else to do it, and it won't be free.

Ooh. Runs counter to some of the ideas I had (warriors throwing off-green/off-blue on themselves of the battle field), but I really like this idea. Ratchets up the paranoia.


Second, learning a spell is a process that only requires time, but during that time, the character can't do anything else. Learning the Off version, takes 3 months of supernatural stasis, in which the body is sustained by a supernatural force, is immune from all harm but it still groes old. The Pure version takes 9 months of the same meditation/stasis.

The second is essentialy the cost for learning magic. A character tha masters all colors, can do it in privacy and safe from harm but will lose 8 years from his life. This leads to the old wizened wizard with the long beard naturaly. On the other hand, those that don't bother with magic or only master a few colors have more time to train and be better at mundane things like fighting, skill-monkeying etc.

I like the idea of the cost of learning magic, but (to grab part of the next post):

Impervious to harm for 3 months? I can totally see people using that when they are being attacked "Oh god Im going to die!" *starts learning Off-Purple* "Whew safe"
Perhaps simply 8 hours a day for 3/9 months hard studying.

Immunity from harm is a problem. I would actually say time studying/practicing is the best answer.

Time for some fluff layout. As you know, each spell is purely verbal in nature. To cast a spell, you must know how to pronounce the words of the spell correctly. The Pure version of a color is what happens you get it exactly right, while the off version is when you don't get it quite right. The off version is much easier to learn for this reason.


Third, a person's eyes permanently change color depending on the last spell that affected him. If he was affected with an Off version, one of his eyes turns in to that Off color. If he was affected with a Pure version, both of his eyes turn in to a distinct version of the color that affected him. If he is targeted with the same Off color spell twice, only one eye changes, not both.

The third suggestion is there to give clues about other characters. A man walking with one green eye has a green mage friend, while someone with 2 deep green eyes has been altered forever, branding him either as a criminal who changed identity or some kind of weirdo that wanted to look different. Having gray eyes should be VERY concerning for the individual because someone just changed your name, or at least memorised you for future magic.

Huh, having the magic glows stick around? Interesting. Not something I would have every thought up, but it has so many possibilities.


You realize then that every Grey and Green mage will take White and simply chain them?
Having white eyes means you got in an accident recently, or a long time ago and never got another spell on you (which in a commoner's world is likely true)
Even if you add in the clause that said spell must have done something then all it takes is someone to go "Pure Grey. Hold out hand" *slices* "Pure White. Next please"

For that matter, grey eyes could just mean you haven't been hit by a spell since birth, where you were named for the first time. That said, I am thinking of having the color fade out eventually (perhaps 1 month for off, and 3 months for pure).

Skipping the next part, as I already talked about it.


Um what?
No, you have to find their GREY NAME. Not their pseudonames like a Truenamer, the specific name given via Pure Grey magic.
It cant be changed except via Grey Magic which requires either a (destroyed) artifact or the current name

This is lack arguing "Oh it's perfectly possible to share a password with anyone in the world. Therefore passwords are innately hackable."

The same goes for your assertions that Black magic will drive everyone back into the bronze age.
Sure if it is discovered before Grey then it is rather easy to slaughter hundreds but the second Grey is introduced and disseminated as a way around Black society recovers and snowballs.

Thank you, but I do feel the need to point out one other way past needing to know their name. Kill everyone else who knows it, and its protection is removed.

EDIT DUE TO NINJA:

Well If they can't target themselves, they can't chain anything. That's the point.:smalltongue:

I think he means two casters trading spells.


Impervious to harm is also the point. You wake up months later, with long fingernails and hair, not knowing whether you are now a captive, still buried under rubble, 100 meters beneath the surface of the sea, or survived the fire. That also adds to the paranoia :smallbiggrin:

I never would have thought of that. Yeah, that idea just got cooler.

[D-naras]

I think he means two casters trading spells.


If they trust each other so much then by all means, let them do it. That's how secret societies begin.

[qwertyu63]

If they trust each other so much then by all means, let them do it. That's how secret societies begin.

Yeah, the idea of some green/grey/white mages trading spells like that is a pretty good story hook on its own.

Also, I have decided to use the trancing idea. I just have to add it to the first post.

[LordChaos13]

I think he means two casters trading spells.

Yes I did. Something like
Character A: I divorced my wife and she hates me, I need a new Name
Character B: Yeah ok. Pure Grey 'Dave' Now hold out your hand
Character A holds out hand
B cuts A's hand with knife
Character B: Pure White

Character A has white eyes showing he was hurt and healed (probably spinning some story about falling off a ladder) and his ex-wife can't hire a Black to kill him any more
Only downside is anyone he has trusted his name with would know he changed it simply by him needing to retell. Though that's probably just the Doctor because given the lack of utility spells Magic won't come up much.



That last sentence is actually a problem. Everyone either wears a scarf or mask and/or uses a false name that isn't their Grey.
The only people who know their true name is their doctor, themselves and their parents (if parents are dead 1-2 others as a failsafe)
Without a more general use for magic then Grey names mean nothing to everyone but buffed up strong merchants abusing Yellow and Doctors using Green and White

A wider variety of magic, especially noncombat purposes would cause a greater effect on the world as the Names would have a greater usage.

Also: 9 months to go from having a heavy accent to being accentless on a single word? Assuming it is physically possible to say with the human mouth Im sure it can be done in 3 months. Perhaps Off-Colour is simply the weakest of a set of words, then the next 9 months are learning 3 more words and the meanings behind why their specific pronunciations are that way allowing for a greater usage of them (if more than 3 Pure in the one exist of course)


Complete Magical Healing, plastic surgery and To-person spells change the setting more than the Names despite the Names being a more interesting idea. its held back only by the lack of regular-uses for spells*
Something like a Levitation spell requiring Line of Sight and their True Name could revolutionize building times as the scaffolding need not be made, just levitate the builders (perhaps with Yellow with is the transport spell?)


*like when would Pure Blue ever be used it is non-discriminatory and eternal so you can get hit by it at birth then while bleeding out at 30 the long-forgotten Blue triggers when a doctor uses White and leaves without checking to make sure. If you are targeted by someone who wants to make sure it will work then they can say it twice as the magic lacks any form of discouragement from spamming attack spells (Red and Black are the only ones, Purple has a utility as prediction but better suited to psychotherapy and noble politics)

[qwertyu63]

Yes I did. Something like
Character A: I divorced my wife and she hates me, I need a new Name
Character B: Yeah ok. Pure Grey 'Dave' Now hold out your hand
Character A holds out hand
B cuts A's hand with knife
Character B: Pure White

Character A has white eyes showing he was hurt and healed (probably spinning some story about falling off a ladder) and his ex-wife can't hire a Black to kill him any more
Only downside is anyone he has trusted his name with would know he changed it simply by him needing to retell. Though that's probably just the Doctor because given the lack of utility spells Magic won't come up much.

The cutting hand with knife part is unnecessary. You were still hit by the spell, even if it does nothing.


That last sentence is actually a problem. Everyone either wears a scarf or mask and/or uses a false name that isn't their Grey.
The only people who know their true name is their doctor, themselves and their parents (if parents are dead 1-2 others as a failsafe)
Without a more general use for magic then Grey names mean nothing to everyone but buffed up strong merchants abusing Yellow and Doctors using Green and White

A wider variety of magic, especially noncombat purposes would cause a greater effect on the world as the Names would have a greater usage.

Fake names all over the place is rather intended.

I am wanting to think up an effect for the color Orange, so that slot is open. But bear in mind that all spells must be targeted on a person, and that line of sight is never required.


Also: 9 months to go from having a heavy accent to being accentless on a single word? Assuming it is physically possible to say with the human mouth Im sure it can be done in 3 months. Perhaps Off-Colour is simply the weakest of a set of words, then the next 9 months are learning 3 more words and the meanings behind why their specific pronunciations are that way allowing for a greater usage of them (if more than 3 Pure in the one exist of course)

If you've ever read the fluff behind the truenamer, Pure spells require the levels of precision needed to engage in true speech. Off spells just require you to reach "close enough". It's like the difference between "year or two of the language in school" and "native speaker of the language".


Complete Magical Healing, plastic surgery and To-person spells change the setting more than the Names despite the Names being a more interesting idea. its held back only by the lack of regular-uses for spells*
Something like a Levitation spell requiring Line of Sight and their True Name could revolutionize building times as the scaffolding need not be made, just levitate the builders (perhaps with Yellow with is the transport spell?)

Sadly, that Levitation spell wouldn't quite work, as nothing is allowed to require LoS... That said, the idea of that spell without needing LoS... Alright, I have my Off-Orange, what should pure orange be?


*like when would Pure Blue ever be used it is non-discriminatory and eternal so you can get hit by it at birth then while bleeding out at 30 the long-forgotten Blue triggers when a doctor uses White and leaves without checking to make sure. If you are targeted by someone who wants to make sure it will work then they can say it twice as the magic lacks any form of discouragement from spamming attack spells (Red and Black are the only ones, Purple has a utility as prediction but better suited to psychotherapy and noble politics)

And you have described exactly how Pure Blue is supposed to work. If you think someone is going to try and kill you with Pure Black, have someone spam Pure Blue on you to protect you. Other then that, it is rather useless.

I was thinking of switching Pure Purple to be duration: concentration as well, to make it more useful. That said, its use in politics was a good chunk of what I had in mind.

[LordChaos13]

Except that if someone was trying to kill you and COULD spam Black then youve already failed.
Also your best option would be finding either a Green or Grey Mage or should one not be found a scarring blade followed closely by a Green to remove the mark and change your face enough to not count as your old one.
A Blue is very circumstantial enough that it would be used solely for the blue eyes or just the Off-Blue effect which is actually legitly useful.


Think about your world for a moment.
WHY and to WHO would someone want to give out their Grey name? Their doctor in case they need healing, MAYBE 1 or 2 best friends as a backup in case there are Blacks out there who you made an enemy of

Black: This would be illegal. There is no reason to learn this magic without a Black Gem or you are an Evil Noble trying to gather your political enemy's names
White: Is probably going to be a required year of study for most civilized nations past the middle ages, when teenagers are considered children instead of adults and thus there is more time for schooling. Also good for avoiding the awkwardness of teenagehood.
Before it is made mandatory it would become a well-respected profession, though the ones that don't take a secondary job would likely be considered lazy, unless they are the sole White in a major city then you have different problems
Grey: There will always be a population of Greys. Depending on the society they can be every Father/Mother, a specific Caste or even the Rulers. The centrepiece of Magic. OffGrey would be used on people on parole and other prisoners given some semblance of freedom
Blue: Will be taken for the Off-Blue. That is all. Pure Blue mages are either trying to become an Omnimage and learn ALL the pures or a moron because they will never cast the spell. Anti-physical damage would be almost required for high-risk jobs such as mining, combat and construction and is the last spell on the way out of the doctors.
Red: Off-Red combined with Purple would be used by lie-detectors and psychologists. Pure Red is used to play pranks, incite rebellion and fealty and is probably banned because Mind Control
Green: Off-Green would be cast on Yellow Merchant-Mages, physical laborers and anyone wanting to seem buffer than they really are. Pure Green would be used by a Grey or a White mage but only-PureGreen mages would be very rare
Purple: Again (this seems to be a running theme, first Blue then Red and now Purple) OffPurple is a must-have for most people, giving infinite distance Telepathy. Ambassadors and messengers would probably have a Guild of OffPurple Mages to volley messages crosscountry. PurePurple has very little use except by jealous wives simply because finding out a Grey name can only be done if you are a White mage, Grey mage or your target is a moron
Yellow: OffYellow is very good way of keeping track of people who wander off, so adventurers, scouts and several non-necessary members of every military unit greater than about 50. Pure Yellow is a must-have for Merchants the most, though others would have use


All in all many of the Magic is niche or able to be handled entirely by the single town Mage in less than 10 minutes a day if that.
common usages in civilian life include: ...Yeah. Merchants would know the Greynames of guards paid to sit around in one area all day watching people arrive carrying a load of goods, dropping them off and porting away, rinse and repeat. White mages would know of most-everyone in town. Some groups (namely ambassadors, messengers, scouts and military) may need them too but only in-group

An enemy finding your Grey name only happens if your local White Mage is a spy, your Grey Mage who picked your name is a spy or you have the IQ of a potato.


Again, this is a good setup but the magic needs more civilian uses. Levitate is handy yes (even if it is hard to aim right if you cant SEE the person you are moving with your mind) but why is Joe Commoner not calling himself Jack and forgetting his Grey Name has a use besides when he stubs his toe and needs to visit that guy in the white robe?

[qwertyu63]

Except that if someone was trying to kill you and COULD spam Black then youve already failed.
Also your best option would be finding either a Green or Grey Mage or should one not be found a scarring blade followed closely by a Green to remove the mark and change your face enough to not count as your old one.
A Blue is very circumstantial enough that it would be used solely for the blue eyes or just the Off-Blue effect which is actually legitly useful.

Do you have an idea to make Pure Blue more useful? (What if I switch the two effects, so Off-Blue is the magic blocker and Pure Blue is the physical defense?)


Think about your world for a moment.
WHY and to WHO would someone want to give out their Grey name? Their doctor in case they need healing, MAYBE 1 or 2 best friends as a backup in case there are Blacks out there who you made an enemy of

The biggest hurdle here is that you need to make sure someone knows your name. If everyone only tells the doctor, then an enemy needs only kill the doctor.

Note: I have clipped the colors that I think you got dead on right, and I therefore have nothing to say about it.


Black: This would be illegal. There is no reason to learn this magic without a Black Gem or you are an Evil Noble trying to gather your political enemy's names

I can think of a third reason. If you are an army wizard, whose job is to kill any enemies whose names can be discovered.


Blue: Will be taken for the Off-Blue. That is all. Pure Blue mages are either trying to become an Omnimage and learn ALL the pures or a moron because they will never cast the spell. Anti-physical damage would be almost required for high-risk jobs such as mining, combat and construction and is the last spell on the way out of the doctors.

See my earlier comments about blue.


Again, this is a good setup but the magic needs more civilian uses. Levitate is handy yes (even if it is hard to aim right if you cant SEE the person you are moving with your mind) but why is Joe Commoner not calling himself Jack and forgetting his Grey Name has a use besides when he stubs his toe and needs to visit that guy in the white robe?

Can you think of more civilian uses? I can't seem to come up with anything.

[LordChaos13]

Simply expand
This applies for your question on Blue and civvie uses


Make it a list of 3/4 spells with a Basic spell needed before you can learn the other kinds
Basic: Needed to learn all other spells of the same colour, only 1 of these exist for each colour
Advanced: Any 2 spells of the same colour must have been learned before this



Example:

Yellow (The colour of Travel)
Impure Yellow: This basic spell provides the general direction and distance to within 10 miles of the target compared not the caster
Sunshine Yellow: An incantation that sends any object you touch to an open area around the target. Object must weigh no less than 10x your carrying capacity
Golden Yellow: You may transport yourself to an open area near to the Target
Saffron Yellow: The target is levitated, allowing you to move him at 15ft /round (1/2 D&D 3.5's walking speed) in any direction or combination of directions
Pure Yellow: An Advanced spell that moves the Target to any other targettable person, along with anything they are holding off the ground personally

While this is very much a merchant or multiple-story builders Mage being able to redeploy small units around to Grey Names you know makes it appealing to the military. Same with the supply drops allowing instant deployment of food and other provisions to the front lines


Knowing all the Yellow spells takes 5 sets of 3 months, so in comparison:
Old Yellow mage spends a year studying: Can tell where your target is and can personally visit
New yellow Mage: 1/2 speed levitation of target, supply drops, slightly less accurate divinations, personally visit

Another 3 months spent studying allows redeployment of troops and the abduction of hostiles for a more pacifistic method of Grey-name attacks

With the changes it means Yellow Mages would know Grey names in most adventuring parties, military expeditions and can track them down without being flawless (the general direction is basically a compass .
That combined with the fact that merchants would also use it for a more efficient transport than training the buffest guy you can find to pick up a bucket, teleport, drop, teleport pick up a dfferent one makes it's use more suitable in the cost/benefit f giving out your Grey name.


The Black colour would also be expanded but also have good aspects too. For instance the transferral of wounds from ally to enemy, or perhaps an AoE effect to get around the 'no Grey Name, no spells'. By targeting an ally and giving them a Death Aura. But to get a Death Aura (which would be the Advanced spell) youd have to know the normal Death spell...Which means letting the resident Black mage know your name AND have the possibility of killing you...



As for Blue, it's the Protective type. Wards of residents, a place your target slept in for more than 8 hours in the last 24 hours could be given a Blue Magic ward
Change the Anti-Magic to be discriminatory: Having it when hit by a spell gives what the spell is, but not who is casting or the explicit effects. Example the current Pure Red gives emotional control, the new Blue would say "Pure Red" but not if its a lust effect or a bezerker rage effect, or even just a 'be happy'. The Impure Blue would last a set time period before wearing off however
That would be the Basic spell, with another non-basic giving protection against physical attacks, one giving the option to become Immune to a casters spells on you for 8 hours (this combined with the Basic Blue provides protection against Pure Black spamming, but its only temporary and only works on 1 person per casting)


Just examples of course, its your homebrew

[qwertyu63]

Simply expand
This applies for your question on Blue and civvie uses


Make it a list of 3/4 spells with a Basic spell needed before you can learn the other kinds
Basic: Needed to learn all other spells of the same colour, only 1 of these exist for each colour
Advanced: Any 2 spells of the same colour must have been learned before this



Example:

Yellow (The colour of Travel)
Impure Yellow: This basic spell provides the general direction and distance to within 10 miles of the target compared not the caster
Sunshine Yellow: An incantation that sends any object you touch to an open area around the target. Object must weigh no less than 10x your carrying capacity
Golden Yellow: You may transport yourself to an open area near to the Target
Saffron Yellow: The target is levitated, allowing you to move him at 15ft /round (1/2 D&D 3.5's walking speed) in any direction or combination of directions
Pure Yellow: An Advanced spell that moves the Target to any other targettable person, along with anything they are holding off the ground personally

While this is very much a merchant or multiple-story builders Mage being able to redeploy small units around to Grey Names you know makes it appealing to the military. Same with the supply drops allowing instant deployment of food and other provisions to the front lines

Knowing all the Yellow spells takes 5 sets of 3 months, so in comparison:
Old Yellow mage spends a year studying: Can tell where your target is and can personally visit
New yellow Mage: 1/2 speed levitation of target, supply drops, slightly less accurate divinations, personally visit

Another 3 months spent studying allows redeployment of troops and the abduction of hostiles for a more pacifistic method of Grey-name attacks

With the changes it means Yellow Mages would know Grey names in most adventuring parties, military expeditions and can track them down without being flawless (the general direction is basically a compass .
That combined with the fact that merchants would also use it for a more efficient transport than training the buffest guy you can find to pick up a bucket, teleport, drop, teleport pick up a dfferent one makes it's use more suitable in the cost/benefit f giving out your Grey name.


The Black colour would also be expanded but also have good aspects too. For instance the transferral of wounds from ally to enemy, or perhaps an AoE effect to get around the 'no Grey Name, no spells'. By targeting an ally and giving them a Death Aura. But to get a Death Aura (which would be the Advanced spell) youd have to know the normal Death spell...Which means letting the resident Black mage know your name AND have the possibility of killing you...

As for Blue, it's the Protective type. Wards of residents, a place your target slept in for more than 8 hours in the last 24 hours could be given a Blue Magic ward
Change the Anti-Magic to be discriminatory: Having it when hit by a spell gives what the spell is, but not who is casting or the explicit effects. Example the current Pure Red gives emotional control, the new Blue would say "Pure Red" but not if its a lust effect or a bezerker rage effect, or even just a 'be happy'. The Impure Blue would last a set time period before wearing off however
That would be the Basic spell, with another non-basic giving protection against physical attacks, one giving the option to become Immune to a casters spells on you for 8 hours (this combined with the Basic Blue provides protection against Pure Black spamming, but its only temporary and only works on 1 person per casting)


Just examples of course, its your homebrew

So basically add more spells to each of the existing colors? I'll work on that. (In a bit, making a super tarrasque at the moment)

[Milo v3]

(In a bit, making a super tarrasque at the moment)

Great another lot of competition :smalltongue:

[qwertyu63]

Alright, I've added in room for 8 more spells, of which I have written 3. A blue spell to return spells, a black spell to pass death along, and a yellow spell of levitation. I have also moved Off-Grey's spell to the Part Grey Slot.

Comments? Ideas to fill in the remaining slots?

[LordChaos13]

For Purple: See through their eyes

[Amechra]

Off Grey: Learn a person's name.

[qwertyu63]

Off Grey: Learn a person's name.

Not a chance in hell. The whole point is that you need their name to effect them. A spell that gives you their name would either be useless (because you already know it) or broken as hell (if it avoids the "need-name rule"). Either way, the spell doesn't work.

[D-naras]

Part-White: Speed up recovery from sickness, disease, viruses.

Part-Red: Remove any emotion from the target, unless he resists, for as long as you concetrate.

Part-Green: Decrease your target's physical power, for as long as you concentrate. Or Increase his speed?

Off-Gray: Name your target, unless he resists.
Part-Gray: Flag as usual.
Pure-Gray: Rename your target, unless he resists.

How about these?

[3WhiteFox3]

How to rule in this setting.

This assumes that you know all of the pure colors of magic.

1 - Find someone whose name you know.
2 - Rename them without them knowing the new name.
3 - Get your own name Renamed,
3a - Kill the person who Renamed you. Or have them be the person outlined below.
4 - Tell them your new name and incapacitate them somehow.
4a - Either by coercing them into a learning trance or by damaging their vocal cords and hands. If he's in a learning trance, make sure to check up on him every 3 months, and make sure he's dealt with somehow.
(Optional) Get a loyal servant who only knows white spells to target you periodically without knowing your name to make sure that you aren't the only person who knows your name.
5 - Cast pure blue spells on a target and then the spell you want to effect yourself with on the same target.
6 - Take a molten metal mask and apply it your face (if you can make this less painful via off-blue, do it) to mar your face beyond recognition and have a mask to cover it.
7 - You are now open to freely become a quasi-benevolent dictator of your country whilst being as protected as possible against almost any assault, physical or magical. Only one person knows your name and face, you have every beneficial magical effect on you. You can freely start accumulating names of those who you employ and their families. From here on out, just follow the evil overlord list and you'll be good.

[Saidoro]

Not a chance in hell. The whole point is that you need their name to effect them. A spell that gives you their name would either be useless (because you already know it) or broken as hell (if it avoids the "need-name rule"). Either way, the spell doesn't work.

Not so. You cast the spell calling for their face and name and if it works it returns their name. If it doesn't it doesn't. This has the incredibly useful application of telling you if a given face and name match one another, and if they have any magical protections in place. If you get their name back you can start hitting them with other spells, if you don't you can't.

[Amechra]

Not a chance in hell. The whole point is that you need their name to effect them. A spell that gives you their name would either be useless (because you already know it) or broken as hell (if it avoids the "need-name rule"). Either way, the spell doesn't work.

The point is for it to be useless. Now, if someone could manage to repair the Grey gem...

[qwertyu63]

Part-White: Speed up recovery from sickness, disease, viruses.

Perfect.


Part-Red: Remove any emotion from the target, unless he resists, for as long as you concetrate.

Perfect.


Part-Green: Decrease your target's physical power, for as long as you concentrate. Or Increase his speed?

Rather the polar opposite of green, and also is what Off-Black is already doing. A speed increase though works.


Off-Gray: Name your target, unless he resists.
Part-Gray: Flag as usual.
Pure-Gray: Rename your target, unless he resists.

How about these?

Grey is filled below, but thanks.


How to rule in this setting.

This assumes that you know all of the pure colors of magic.

1 - Find someone whose name you know.
2 - Rename them without them knowing the new name.
3 - Get your own name Renamed,
3a - Kill the person who Renamed you. Or have them be the person outlined below.
4 - Tell them your new name and incapacitate them somehow.
4a - Either by coercing them into a learning trance or by damaging their vocal cords and hands. If he's in a learning trance, make sure to check up on him every 3 months, and make sure he's dealt with somehow.
(Optional) Get a loyal servant who only knows white spells to target you periodically without knowing your name to make sure that you aren't the only person who knows your name.
5 - Cast pure blue spells on a target and then the spell you want to effect yourself with on the same target.
6 - Take a molten metal mask and apply it your face (if you can make this less painful via off-blue, do it) to mar your face beyond recognition and have a mask to cover it.
7 - You are now open to freely become a quasi-benevolent dictator of your country whilst being as protected as possible against almost any assault, physical or magical. Only one person knows your name and face, you have every beneficial magical effect on you. You can freely start accumulating names of those who you employ and their families. From here on out, just follow the evil overlord list and you'll be good.

Clever, casting on yourself by intentional bouncing it back. But be careful, this plan works right up until the person you gave your name to dies.


The point is for it to be useless. Now, if someone could manage to repair the Grey gem...

I had that one destroyed for a reason. If you can find a way to get it back out of the volcano, more power to you.


Not so. You cast the spell calling for their face and name and if it works it returns their name. If it doesn't it doesn't. This has the incredibly useful application of telling you if a given face and name match one another, and if they have any magical protections in place. If you get their name back you can start hitting them with other spells, if you don't you can't.

Oh... I like this. I'll use it.

[3WhiteFox3]

Clever, casting on yourself by intentional bouncing it back. But be careful, this plan works right up until the person you gave your name to dies.

That's why you check up on him every three months if he's in a learning trance (thanks to the fact that he's impervious to damage) or if he's just incapable of sharing your name, keep him under constant guard.

Now that Off-Grey tells you the targets name, periodically cast it on yourself via 'blue magic bounce-back' with a wrong name and see if it returns your actual name. If it does, time to get someone else to be your name-keeper. Also, I'd probably protect your keeper with blue magic, just in case someone thinks to assassinate him.

[qwertyu63]

That's why you check up on him every three months if he's in a learning trance (thanks to the fact that he's impervious to damage) or if he's just incapable of sharing your name, keep him under constant guard.

Now that Off-Grey tells you the targets name, periodically cast it on yourself via 'blue magic bounce-back' with a wrong name and see if it returns your actual name. If it does, time to get someone else to be your name-keeper. Also, I'd probably protect your keeper with blue magic, just in case someone thinks to assassinate him.

I'm talking death by old age. Nothing can stop that.

Also, new rule to patch a flaw I just noticed. Your name-keeper must also know your face, or they don't count.

[3WhiteFox3]

I'm talking death by old age. Nothing can stop that.

Also, new rule to patch a flaw I just noticed. Your name-keeper must also know your face, or they don't count.

Eh, show him the real face before the scarring and mask, or show it to him afterwards, whichever way works best. Ideally, the ruler-to-be will choose someone younger than him to be the name-keeper. There's also nothing stopping you from getting a replacement.

[qwertyu63]

Eh, show him the real face before the scarring and mask, or show it to him afterwards, whichever way works best. Ideally, the ruler-to-be will choose someone younger than him to be the name-keeper. There's also nothing stopping you from getting a replacement.

Very well. I do believe that works.

[Realms of Chaos]

I'm not actually seeing much difficulty with civilizations developing at all.

Just give everyone an iron mask (either at birth or at a very young age) and weld it shut. If nobody has any reason to murder them for the first few years of life, their face will have changed through natural growth that nobody will know their face and nobody can learn their face without tremendous force that may well kill the person anyways.

Among those of high class, the mask would be donned at birth and the doctor would be instantly slain. If mind-reading involves full mind probes rather than casual reading of surface thoughts, leaders would either prevent themselves from seeing the face (such as through absence or ceremonial blinding) or kill themselves to preserve their lines.

Among those of lower classes, there realistically isn't too much to fear. There have been times and places in history, I'll bet, where murder would have gone pretty much unpunished and that doesn't mean that all civilizations have destroyed each other. Basic empathy prevents people from randomly murdering their neighbors and even psychopaths would have problems doing so too effectively unless they had real power (and nobles being able to kill with impunity isn't beyond the realms of possibility in most settings I've seen). Despite the various forms of magic available, magic doesn't really give you a comfortable life in and of itself (no making stuff or summoning minions, for example) so you probably require a good deal of people in your community. Apart from black magic when you displease someone or the possibility of emotions being controlled to humiliate or bed others (all horrible, horrible things), the common folk probably won't suffer that much and industry will be free to move along as planned (even if leaders of an industry risk becoming targets).

Hell, I'll go out on a limb and say that coups will actually be a lot cleaner with this form of magic as there's basically no use for an armed force if you just want to take foes out through magic. More frequent shifts in control, maybe, but still probably more stable than most conceptualizations of war-torn nations.

I guess that raises the question of foreign nations but the immediate response is simply a network of isolated, xenophobic city-states. Built into mountains, built on islands, that type of stuff. Hell, I could picture an entire civilization living underground where nobody can see anybody's face, practicing the single law that anyone bearing light must be immediately killed.

So, yeah. I personally think that society would manage to generally invalidate magic pretty much entirely and keep going on with the type of paranoid conspiracies/betrayals you're after being exceedingly rare. That's not to say that you couldn't have great and wondrous adventures with this but that I don't believe that betrayal would suddenly become that much more common just because.

Unless I've missed something about magic, I guess.

[D-naras]

He has a point. It's pretty easy hiding either your name, or face to see much magic. Not that this is a bad thing. Stories in this setting would be more Conan than Drizzt for one thing.

[Amechra]

Heck, I bet you titles would become commonplace.

So Steve would go as, I don't know, Baron of Placename, Servant of the People, using Placename for short.

Or just use a fake name; for example, every member of a particular family line could go by John or Jane in place of their actual names.

Veils would be a popular item of clothing, thin enough you can see through, but opaque from the other side. Combine this with the ribbon suggestion that I gave earlier, and you've got a pretty neat aesthetic.

[qwertyu63]

Time for a bit of an overhaul. All this emphasis on faces has made me realize it doesn't work for what I made it. The face requirement was just so two people with the same name could be targeted separately. I was not trying to create a world where everyone hides their face. So, one overhaul later that won't help anymore...

Now "To affect someone with magic requires you to know their actual name, and some other way to uniquely identify them (face, current location or fake name)"

Their face still works, but so does the two other things I listed. That should shake things back the way I intend them...

EDIT: Also, I want to make an orange color of spells, but I have no ideas. The theme should be spells that are useful on the utility level.

Orange:
-Off-Orange: ???
--Part Orange: ???
---Pure Orange: ???

Gem: Amber of ???

[LordChaos13]

Utility spells is a VERY large spectrum

Right now you have:
Black - Death Magic
White - Healing Magic
Grey - Name Magic
Blue - Warding Magic
Red - Emotional Magic
Green - Transformation Magic
Purple - Mind Magic
Yellow - Transportation Magic


Adding on Utility (which is basically "Everything Else except combat" in most RPG definitions) isn't the right choice here because its too broad

Perhaps have Orange be Magic Magic? Use it to create Artifacts, each one attuned to a single spell (the level of Orange corresponding to the level of the targeted Colour, so a Pure Orange is needed to make a Pure Black Artifact)
Said item expands the spell out, for example:
Off-Yellow Item: Holding this while using the Off-Yellow spell allows you to hold the current location (updating in real time) of the divined target, this is broken only by the target changing their Grey Name or the unique feature you used when casting the spell OR the time (1D3 days) elapsing
Off-White Item: Holding this while using the Off-White spell allows you to reverse a change rather than simply cancel it. Example a Red Mage increases the rage the target feels, this would make them calmer than they were before the spell is cast. In the case of Black Curses either the condition gets swapped (ie whenever NOT doing the condition) you get the penalty OR doing the condition gives a bonus rather than a malus


Or if not, perhaps a Mental-Green? Warping their personality, enhancing intellect and such

[qwertyu63]

Utility spells is a VERY large spectrum

Right now you have:
Black - Death Magic
White - Healing Magic
Grey - Name Magic
Blue - Warding Magic
Red - Emotional Magic
Green - Transformation Magic
Purple - Mind Magic
Yellow - Transportation Magic


Adding on Utility (which is basically "Everything Else except combat" in most RPG definitions) isn't the right choice here because its too broad

Utility was what I meant overall. I was going to zoom in on a theme of some kind.


Perhaps have Orange be Magic Magic? Use it to create Artifacts, each one attuned to a single spell (the level of Orange corresponding to the level of the targeted Colour, so a Pure Orange is needed to make a Pure Black Artifact)

That doesn't work. Remember, every spell must target a person.


Or if not, perhaps a Mental-Green? Warping their personality, enhancing intellect and such

Ooh, there's an idea. Any others?

[LordChaos13]

Make Orange a tandem type then? Cast on someone, then THEY cast a boosted spell
So you need an ally if your an Orange mage, even if you are Pure at every other school of magic (except Blue because of the BlueBounce exploit)

[qwertyu63]

Make Orange a tandem type then? Cast on someone, then THEY cast a boosted spell
So you need an ally if your an Orange mage, even if you are Pure at every other school of magic (except Blue because of the BlueBounce exploit)

Oh, there's an idea. Enhance someone else's magic. Kind of like meta-magic. I'll go with it.

Orange:
-Off-Orange: Speed up next spell your target casts, having it take 1 second to cast instead of 5
--Part Orange: ???
---Pure Orange: Empower the next spell your target casts, making it much harder to resist.

Gem: Amber of Magic

Side note: I'm thinking of patching the BlueBounce exploit. Comments, concerns?

[LordChaos13]

Its fine the way it is, it takes 10 seconds and requires more than casual study (needing Blue and an actual beneficial magic colour)
That is months of swordsman training, of politicking, research, lifespan, as opposed to asking someone to do their job.


Off-Orange sucks. 5 seconds is NOT a hindrance at all, especially since there isnt a per/X limit
The only way it would be good is if there was a "Your vocal cords can only handle so much, only X seconds of magic can be spoken per day" and even then requires another caster with it to cast on you

Remember it would be one-use only so even in combat it's basically "Get a spell off before everyone else...Then be 1 second behind the rest of the fight"
And out of combat without 5 Oranges/Normal Mage ratio you aren't gaining a significant amount of time
For Pure: Remember that Pure Black is literally "The next person you touch DIES". pure should be more powerful than a small malus to saving throws. maybe bypassing resists completely or bumping it down to Off or Part?

I still think using Orange to expand effects would be good, like for Pure Yellow allowing either more passengers, perhaps taking a cart too not just handheld or not taking the Caster?
Because that's still 5 seconds in potentially hostile territory (if you keep Off-Orange then you get 1 second ONLY if you can choose to not use it up when teleporting the first time)

[qwertyu63]

Its fine the way it is, it takes 10 seconds and requires more than casual study (needing Blue and an actual beneficial magic colour)
That is months of swordsman training, of politicking, research, lifespan, as opposed to asking someone to do their job.

Alright.


Off-Orange sucks. 5 seconds is NOT a hindrance at all, especially since there isnt a per/X limit
The only way it would be good is if there was a "Your vocal cords can only handle so much, only X seconds of magic can be spoken per day" and even then requires another caster with it to cast on you

Fair enough. It was the first thing to come to mind.


Remember it would be one-use only so even in combat it's basically "Get a spell off before everyone else...Then be 1 second behind the rest of the fight"
And out of combat without 5 Oranges/Normal Mage ratio you aren't gaining a significant amount of time
For Pure: Remember that Pure Black is literally "The next person you touch DIES". pure should be more powerful than a small malus to saving throws. maybe bypassing resists completely or bumping it down to Off or Part?

I thought about making is a total bypass, but in my mind it was a heavy penalty.


I still think using Orange to expand effects would be good, like for Pure Yellow allowing either more passengers, perhaps taking a cart too not just handheld or not taking the Caster?
Because that's still 5 seconds in potentially hostile territory (if you keep Off-Orange then you get 1 second ONLY if you can choose to not use it up when teleporting the first time)

I thought of doing that, but I couldn't figure out where to write a new rider effect for every spell.

[LordChaos13]

Only do it for some of them not every single one? (Like the instant-death Black wouldnt have an expanded spell)
Then put them in a spoiler after all the spells as 'Orange Enhancements'

[Jyton]

We're going for paranoid, right?

Well, if the eyes are the windows to the soul...

Anyone with their eyes closed is immune to Color Magic.

[LordChaos13]

Then the blind man is king

It is paranoia because giving out your name is a risk that must be done
Giving Immunity when you close your eyes means every smart person will learn how to fight blind

[Jyton]

Then the blind man is king



Not even close. A blind man can't cast either. They're irrelevant, mundane. A well protected King can still be immune, but a blind man? No green, no blue, no white. If someone starts killing off your name bearers, as a last desperate move you can gouge your eyes out, or try to keep them closed all the time. Besides which, not everyone will know the workings of magic. It adds depth to the system. You wouldn't have to run it that was in your campaign, but I absolutely would.

[LordChaos13]

Except you only need a unique feature
Their voice would count as that


Also being blind they can open their eyes but they gain nothing from it, so can be content to develop a habit of keeping them closed only opening for magic

[qwertyu63]

Anyone with their eyes closed is immune to Color Magic.

I am going to say this one more time:

No one is immune to color magic. If there is an exploit to make someone immune, I change things to remove it. There is not a chance in hell of me adding in a way for someone to be immune. Ever.

[NichG]

Someone and their trusted ally using pure blue on eachother constantly are basically immune to color magic (good and bad).

Also, the pure blue effect means that random omnicidal 'black outs' won't happen, because at no cost to it and no time-out there's a good chance that your random murder victim is under pure-blue and you end up killing yourself instead of them when you try to use part-black on them.

Even targeting newborn nameless (say, as a method of warfare) is risky since it wouldn't be too hard to salt maternity wards with a few children left nameless but given a pure-blue shield. That said, you could use 'tracer rounds' by firing off something harmless and easily detectable first (like a mind read - if you get your own thoughts, they were shielded) before taking the risk and dropping a part-black.

Part-black would still get used for revenge killings and crimes of passion, though. Thats probably most of its use - something that happens when the mage sees a trust betrayed that was not expected to be discovered (or believes a trust has been betrayed).

Also, is it just me, or does off-grey do literally nothing in this system? You need to know the name of someone to target them with it, or they need to be nameless in which case there's nothing to discover. I guess you could use it on people who are the only holders of their own name, but thats pretty niche.

[LordChaos13]

Off-Grey is the tracer you mentioned actually

to detect and neutralize a Pure Blue

Also remember each spell is 5 seconds casting time, so all it takes is 2 casters and your Pure Blue doubleteam gets slaughtered

[qwertyu63]

Also, is it just me, or does off-grey do literally nothing in this system? You need to know the name of someone to target them with it, or they need to be nameless in which case there's nothing to discover. I guess you could use it on people who are the only holders of their own name, but thats pretty niche.

Several things:

1: To trigger defences that are tuned to grey magic.
2: To test if the name you know is right.
3: To take up space in the grey spells line.

[NichG]

Off-Grey is the tracer you mentioned actually

to detect and neutralize a Pure Blue

Also remember each spell is 5 seconds casting time, so all it takes is 2 casters and your Pure Blue doubleteam gets slaughtered

True, if there are excess attackers focusing fire they can break through. I guess as long as you're precise enough about the timing there's no way a third defender could get a shield up in time, so it may just require two attackers.

[Zweisteine]

Which edition of D&D are you talking about?
I imagine that different editions would be effected a bit differently by a new magic system, especially considering that 4th ed. doesn't really have a separate magic system in the first place, so far as I can tell.

[Milo v3]

Which edition of D&D are you talking about?
I imagine that different editions would be effected a bit differently by a new magic system, especially considering that 4th ed. doesn't really have a separate magic system in the first place, so far as I can tell.

As for as I can tell, this isn't for any edition of D&D.

[LordChaos13]

It is systemless, and assuming a non-caster fantasy world

[Milo v3]

Considering the gem you picked for orange (Even though it's not a gem :smallsigh:) and your inital idea for the Off-Orange, I think this could be an idea:
Orange:
-Off-Orange: ??? NOT SURE ???
--Part Orange: Target is slowed in a chronological sense, unless they can resist, for as long as you can concentrate (rest of the world seems to go faster for them, but they are actually the ones going in slow motion)
---Pure Orange: Target doesn't need to breath, eat, sleep, drink, and doesn't age, as long as you can concentrate. Note: The target also don't naturally heal when affected.

Gem: Amber of Ages

One of the most obvious uses to me for Part and Pure would be medical. With Part slowing down the rate of someone bleeding out, and Pure effectively being a form of life support.

[endoperez]

An alternate suggestion for Orange, going from the time angle

Off-orange: Target can sense distances and passing time in great detail.
Part-orange: Target remembers something specific in great detail.
Full-orange: Target forgets a specific thing. Resistable.

Usages I imagine for these:
Off-orange: "what's the time", + a built-in ruler, yard stick etc. Possibly just enhanged senses in general.
Part-orange: "where did I put my keys", "what did the subject look like", "show me my mother's face, I can't remember it"
Full-orange: Used for making sure people forget names, obviously. Also for removing bad memories or hiding things or making sure secrets stay secrets.

This is a cool system.

[qwertyu63]

An alternate suggestion for Orange, going from the time angle

Off-orange: Target can sense distances and passing time in great detail.
Part-orange: Target remembers something specific in great detail.
Full-orange: Target forgets a specific thing. Resistable.

Usages I imagine for these:
Off-orange: "what's the time", + a built-in ruler, yard stick etc. Possibly just enhanged senses in general.
Part-orange: "where did I put my keys", "what did the subject look like", "show me my mother's face, I can't remember it"
Full-orange: Used for making sure people forget names, obviously. Also for removing bad memories or hiding things or making sure secrets stay secrets.

This is a cool system.

I now know what I am doing for this.

First off, this system is going to be installed into a custom RPG system based around time management. The biggest quest reward is time of peace, character advancement is measured by training time (like the trance for learning spells) and the combat system is based around bidding with and spending seconds.

With that in mind, a color based around time is a great idea. Here is what I'm doing:

Off-Orange: ???
Part Orange: Speed up time for your target, doubling what they can do, for as long as you concentrate.
Pure Orange: Rewind the mind of your target up to 1 hour, erasing memories of that time, unless they can resist.

Gem: Amber of Ages

[giggyex]

To solve all the systems problems:

1. Casting a spell changes your emotions/philosophies to what you just cast. Ex: white makes you loving, purple compassionate, black you disregard life including yours.

2. You can only know one color of spells.

[qwertyu63]

To solve all the systems problems:

1. Casting a spell changes your emotions/philosophies to what you just cast. Ex: white makes you loving, purple compassionate, black you disregard life including yours.

2. You can only know one color of spells.

No and no. Both of these make the system worse, and disregard the point.

[NichG]

I'm curious, what is the point of letting people resist things in this system?

[qwertyu63]

I'm curious, what is the point of letting people resist things in this system?

To add in a bit of a balancing factor to the more powerful spells. I am thinking of dropping it however, as it clashes with the rest of my design for the game system it is part of (which is completely die-free and chance-less).

[NichG]

I would argue that resistance is futile in this system anyhow. If someone can possibly target you, they can attempt to affect you every 5 seconds from anywhere in the world anyhow. So even if you run to your nearest pure blue mage and he's in the same building, they're probably going to be able to make you roll 10-20 resistance checks before you get there.

If a successful resist made the caster forget the name of the target, that'd make it meaningful, but it kind of goes against the mutually-assured-destruction thing you've got going now.

[TuggyNE]

If a successful resist made the caster forget the name of the target, that'd make it meaningful, but it kind of goes against the mutually-assured-destruction thing you've got going now.

Other potential alternatives off the top of my head: sufficient resistance can reflect the spell (assuming you have some way to express degrees of success); successful resistance prevents the caster from further affecting the target for a certain period of time; successful resistance imposes some stacking penalty on the caster for a while; successful resistance grants a stacking increase in ability to resist.

[qwertyu63]

Yeah, I'm just going to drop the idea of resisting. It seemed like a good idea to start with, but it has started falling apart. With blue magic being the way it is now, it fills all my counter-balancing needs anyway.

Or not, I have a new idea. This gets rid of both problems I had. Each character would have a willpower score equal to the number of spells they know. When a spell that can be resisted is used, the willpower of the caster is compared to that of the victim. If the victim's is greater, then they resist. If the caster is higher, then the spell works. Draws go to the caster.

[qwertyu63]

Well, time to bring this back, with some big changes.

The amount of time to learn a spell has been cut by a factor of 3.

There is a cool-down time between learning spells.

I added in the effects for orange.

I made up a new magic item.

Some spells have been upgraded from "for as long as you concentrate" to "for as long as you concentrate and 1 minute thereafter".

Color was dropped from the name of the system.

And with that, the thread is back open.