question about associated vs non associated class levels

[blelliot]

An ogre mage has the sorcerer as its favored class. Going by the guidelines for monster with class levels, since the ogre mage is a beatstick with a little magical ability, would the sorcerer be a nonassociated class level for determining CR?
PS I don't want this thread to turn into a debate about how screwed up the CR system is, thank you. I just want some fellow DM opinions on the above question. Thanks everyone!

[Urpriest]

Despite Sorceror being its favored class, I'd still say it's nonassociated. The book is pretty clear that in order to have a caster class associated you need actual casting.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

It's definitely nonassociated, especially considering how weak an Orge Magi is at CR 8. With six Sorcerer levels it would be CR 11 (rounded down) and have 11 HD and 3rd level spells, whereas a 'suitable' CR 11 encounter should have access to 5th-6th level spells with at least as many HD. If you want to challenge a level 11 party with that, he'll definitely need spells like Web, Glitterdust, and Stinking Cloud, and use his Change Shape ability to take the form of a Cave Troll (MM3) for natural weapons and special attacks.

[Runestar]

The ogre mage has a ridiculously low amount of HD for its cr. I think all classes can be treated as non-associated...:smalltongue: