Skill success

[jedipotter]

So how often should a character make a skill check? Half the time? More? Does it depened if they are 'bulit' for that skill? If a player wants a ''crazy jumpping halfling'', should they make all (most) all jump checks as it is part of his character concept?

As a player, how often to you expect to make a skill check?


And the Bigger question: As a DM, how often to you set up hard skill checks?

Both 3.5E and Pathfinder(Pathfinder is worse) have the same skill point problem: too many points, too fast. The common '10' and '15' Dc becomes useless as a character will auto make them. Even '20' is not so hard.

So then comes the DM Delema. Do you 'up' the DC's of everything to make it all harder? Or do you just let the characters auto through everything? And if you let them auto, why even bother having the thing that causes the skill check? If the DC 15 pit will judt be a waste of time (''I got a 41 to jump over the pit!), then why even have it? But on the other hand, if suddenly every pit is an Abyssal Maw with a DC of 50, then they players might fail even just half the time. So what is the happy medium?

[Tim Proctor]

I would keep adding in the smaller obstacles, and let the players auto-succeed if they have the skill points, if they are a ninja letting them jump and tumble like one is worth it. Letting their character have some shine time is almost always a good thing. Plus I would assume that not the entire group has the same skill level, so adding the distinction of how awesome the rogue is generally a good thing (spellcasters get plenty of shine time).

I do think you can make them harder without just increasing the size of it, have a low ceiling, or a tunnel, giant spider webs, etc. Look at ways to give them negatives to the check rather than just increasing the size of them trap.

[Stux]

You wouldn't expect to keep facing just CR1 monsters when you are level 10 or so. So yeah, throw in some tough DCs, but come up with some fluff to explain why like the previous poster suggested. Get creative!

[Zero grim]

A fun game I play while DMing is how obscure of a skill do I have to call before I get a shrug from everyone and they realise nobody has the skill needed, In one campaign this created a party that knew about everything in existence and could talk their way out of anything but were absolutely stumped when they reached a locked door.

I call for a high DC when the task requires it, usually on knowledge checks as i have players making knowledge check just about every few minutes (got to have some way to transmit the setting/plot to the players) and I don't really use a set DC most of the time i just have a sliding scale, so I know if they get 10 they know the common talk, but if they get 30 they know some critically rare piece of info.

As for frequency of all skill checks, I think that if a character is doing anything that isn't routine then they should be rolling dice or using abilities, from my experience some players just like to sit and roll dice, the more dice rolls you introduce the closer the game becomes about what the characters can do and less about what the players can think up.

[Honest Tiefling]

Why would you increase the DCs? This is something that bugs me as a player, when I try to be open with the DM with what I am doing, and in return, my feats, effort, and skills are working against me. My feat has become an anti-feat whereupon taking it, I have gotten crappier at my intended goal.

I think the happy medium is putting things where they logically should be. If I am in a town with old brick buildings, I expect to climb it better then say, sheer rock. Don't decide that things are different based on the skills, go with your original plan. Putting in obstacles to overcome is part of the fun, so do consider those especially if they can be worked around.

Usually, if someone is making a character based around a skill, they are 100% alright with a few easy checks now and again, so I would not worry about them succeeding a lot. It might be a way to give them a hook to care about the architecture, anyway. How many campaigns have been broken by just jumping, anyway?

[jedipotter]

Why would you increase the DCs? This is something that bugs me as a player,

The DC, like everything go up as the game goes on. As character's get levels, everything else goes up too. At 10th level your not jumpping over DC 12 pits.



I think the happy medium is putting things where they logically should be.


But how far can 'logic' get you? The bank would have like DC 60 or more locks ''logically'', if your saying that DC's can be any number they should logicaly be. But game wise, you don't do things so high if the character's are such low levels...unless your in a hard core game. So most things will be ''in the middle''. But as a player, how often do you want to make a roll? All the time? Half the time? Less? Do you not want to fail if it is ''too simple'', like ''just a hole'', but if it is a five demnensional moving hole you are ok with failure?

[Honest Tiefling]

My apologies, but I had assumed you meant to increase the DCs of the skills just because the PCs had such high skill modifiers. But no, do increase as the game goes on, or, let the PCs do more extreme and dangerous things as they become more skilled.

As for the bank, well, maybe the PCs should hit up some small town banks BEFORE trying to rob major banks in cities. Yeah, not every bank robber has character levels, but it does make sense in the game.

[OldTrees1]

I recommend keeping the low DCs for low benefits but also adding higher DCs for higher benefits.

Reward them for their mastery of the mundane (anything they pass on a 1/take 10 with skill mastery), challenge them with the extraordinary(roll 11+) and tempt them with opportunity to do the legendary (anything that requires a 16+). [assuming retries come with a cost/time limit]


So a high level locksmith should still notice the mundane locks(auto success), deal with the highly magically reinforced locks(roll of 11+) and be tempted (16+) by the lock on the vault.

[Slipperychicken]

I'd say keep the low DC stuff around, partly for verisimilitude, partly to give perspective on how skilled the characters really are.


If you want PCs to succeed the same portion of the time regardless of their skill levels or the challenge presented, then why on earth are you playing a game which makes increasing skill levels integral to play? You might as well save everyone the trouble of fussing with 3.5's skill system (not to mention it's ludicrously time-consuming character creation minigame), and pick up one of those 2-page indie RPGs where success for all tasks is determined by rolling 4-6 on a 1d6.

[Segev]

Except where skills are used against other skill-using entities (e.g. perception vs. stealth, lockpicking vs. locksmithing, etc.), generally, you should have things just be what they are. Let the players figure out how to use their skills. What was before an impassible gorge can later be jumped. What was before unclimbable now can be climbed. Let their skills open up options that were once impossible because they couldn't make the kind of skill DC required.