[PF] Tengu Rogue build

[Stux]

I'm working on a Tengu Swordmaster Scout Rogue build.

Basically the idea is to have natural attacks on top of iteratives (using the Claws ART), then use either Tiger Trance in combination with Scout's Charge or Monkey Trance and a 5 foot step with Skirmish. Either way getting sneak attack on a full round attack, with 10 foot or more of movement too.

There are some rules interactions I'm not quite clear on though.

1)
The main one right now is with regards to Medusa's Wrath and how that interacts with Feral Combat Training. Are the extra attacks from Medusa's Wrath instead extra natural attacks because of Feral Combat Training, or is the feat simply triggered by a natural attack but the extra attacks are unarmed strikes like normal?

2)
If you have the Enforcer and Shatter Defenses feats, does the non-lethal hit that you make in order to get the effect from Enforcer also trigger the effect of Shatter Defenses assuming you succeed on the Intimidate check. The wording of Shatter Defenses is "Any shaken, frightened, or panicked opponent hit by you this round...". The opponent has been hit by you this round, it just wasn't subject to those conditions at the time. However now the opponent has both been hit by you this round, and is shaken, so RAW does that make them flat-footed?

[Bhaakon]

Are the extra attacks from Medusa's Wrath instead extra natural attacks because of Feral Combat Training, or is the feat simply triggered by a natural attack but the extra attacks are unarmed strikes like normal?

Barring DM fiat, the later is the case. Feral combat training lets you trigger Medusa's Wrath with the selected natural attack, but it doesn't otherwise change the effects of Medusa's Wrath.

There's another problem, though. If you're using a limb to make a natural attack, then you can't use it to make an unarmed strike (or attack with a weapon, or another kind of natural attack) in the same turn. So using your claws might mean that you can't make any unarmed strikes at all, even if the feat gives you the opportunity to do so (unless you take a dip into monk, which are explicitly called out as using any part of their body to make unarmed strikes. Otherwise, the rules seem to assume that all UASs are punches). Frankly, I'm not sure how the tangle of rules plays out on this one.

[Stux]

Hmm. That makes sense.

Ok, so I have 2 claws and a bite. Surely I can use one limb as an unarmed strike and get my iteratives with it, also attack with a single claw and the bite, then get the two bonus unarmed strikes using the same limb I used for iteratives?

EDIT:
Actually in the SRD in the combat section it says

Unarmed Attacks

Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts is much like attacking with a melee weapon...
With no reference to monk there.

[grarrrg]

Yes, you can Bite/Claw/Unarmed/Unarmed/Unarmed.
If you want the Iteratives, than the Unarmed counts as a "non-natural weapon", so your Bite/Claw would become Secondary attacks, and take a -5 to-hit. But that's "OK", you still qualify for Multiattack to reduce Secondary penalties down to just -2.
The Unarmed would not have any to-hit penalties in this case.
But unless you take the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, the Unarmed would be stuck doing Nonlethal damage.

You may just be better off using an actual 1-handed weapon.


2)
If you have the Enforcer and Shatter Defenses feats, does the non-lethal hit that you make in order to get the effect from Enforcer also trigger the effect of Shatter Defenses assuming you succeed on the Intimidate check. The wording of Shatter Defenses is "Any shaken, frightened, or panicked opponent hit by you this round...". The opponent has been hit by you this round, it just wasn't subject to those conditions at the time. However now the opponent has both been hit by you this round, and is shaken, so RAW does that make them flat-footed?

The wording isn't perfectly clear, but pretty sure the intent is the target must be shaken/stirred, THEN you hit them for it to trigger. The same attack doing both would probably not work. So as far as your attack routine goes, Enforcer Hit > 'regular hit' > Shatter Defenses kicks in.
But there is some wiggle room. Buy your DM a 12-pack of Mountain Dew. DM's love 12-packs of Mountain Dew.

[Stux]

To be honest it was wishful thinking, I agree with your reading of RAI. It shouldn't really hurt the build much. Multiattack is definitely already in the build, as is Improved Unarmed Strike. Both pretty much essential.

By level 11 when all this comes online I have 2 unarmed iteratives (using legs), 2 claws, a bite, and then the 2 extra unarmed attacks from Medusa's Wrath.

So as long as one of the 2 initial unarmed attacks hits for non lethal damage then Enforcer kicks in. So long as one of the remaining attacks hits I get Shatter Defenses and therefore the extra 2 attacks from Medusa's Wrath for the total 7 attacks. Any attack after Shatter Defenses happens also gets sneak attack.

The best part is that Shatter Defenses lasts until the end of your NEXT turn, meaning next turn the extra attacks from Medusa's Wrath are guaranteed, all 7 attacks get sneak attack damage, and the chances of Shatter Defenses triggering again and keeping the opponent flat footed for the turn after that are pretty high.

[NamelessNPC]

Have a chat with your DM about the trance. Nothing in the book says what kind of action it is, and whether you can choose not to charge if you fail the check