Job Hunter Hunted, Wage Slavery, Etc.

[Morgarion]

This is a spot for people to complain about what they do for a living, or the fact that no one will give them an opportunity to make a living, or whatever. Job hunting, clock punching, hourly nonsense, annoying bosses, Herculean tasks that benefit no one and most certainly are not in your job description.

I will begin with my own story. I've been looking for a new job this whole year. Actually, I've been pretty much searching for three years - I left my career and switched cities to go back to school and finish my degree (as if that would help) so I took a data entry job to pay the bills while I was going to school. The hours were flexible but the pay wasn't great and the work was just awful. I thought it was just going to be something I could do while I was looking for a better opportunity, but it took two more years to get a new job.

I was finishing up my degree and I wasn't taking more than a full courseload for the first time since I'd returned to university, I had a new job that came with a nice (like, really nice) pay bump. It wasn't supposed to be full time, which was fine by me because once my schedule opened up, I'd be doing pretty well. Except that two months in, my boss tells me that there isn't enough work to keep me on with as many hours as I'd been getting and that he's going to have to cut me back. Now, when I was originally hired, they indicated a certain range of expected hours per week. My new schedule is fewer than the minimum range and I cannot get them to give me any more. Once every two months there's a big assignment that requires me to stay late in order that it's finished before the deadline, so if there's really a lot to do I'll get an extra two hours. The hourly rate is nice, but I'm still grossing less money here than I was at my last job and that's a problem for my personal plans and financial goals. And we were actually crazy busy the last four or five months. Now, we're very slow. I have hardly anything to do and I'm concerned my hours are going to be cut back even more.

I've applied to hundreds of jobs and I've had maybe one or two interviews a month. Obviously, no luck yet. Some of them have been much worse than others. The one that still really gets me is the time I went in for an admin position with a company in the same industry I work in now that was two blocks from my home. I go in, the boss leads me to the conference room and I sit down with his office manager to wait for him. I try being pleasant and conversational with this lady and she practically ignores me. Her responses are just the bare minimum, one word. She doesn't ask me anything, she doesn't participate at all. So, that's an awkward start.

The boss comes back in and we start the interview proper. It's going alright, I think I'm doing well and making a good impression. And then, he switches gears and tells me that he needs the person he hires to have some particular qualification that I just don't have, that isn't in my resume and wasn't in my cover letter. Oh, okay. I wish I'd had the presence of mind to explain how he was wasting my time, calling me in for an interview when he knows he cannot or will not hire me ahead of time.

I have the sense that a lot of the companies I've interviewed with haven't been seriously interested in me. There's just something in the atmosphere that says they're not interested. I don't know if they think they're doing me a courtesy by bringing me in to interview anyways, but they're really not.

And I get it, too. On paper, I'm not a strong candidate for any job. My experience is in crappy admin assistant roles with niche companies that are, at best, hard to describe and, at worst, irrelevant to most employers' needs. And sure, I'm doing okay. I'm paying the bills, I've got beer for the weekend and I can go out once every other month. If I plan ahead in advance, I can buy a new toy for myself once a month. But I'm not saving; my savings are actually constantly being depleted (but that's another story, cf. can't say no to the wife). I don't have a future at these companies, because when there's only four people in the office there really isn't any room for advancement. My degrees in linguistics and cultural theory aren't very attractive to employers without an interest or experience in marketing or human resources or accounting or something practical.

I don't know. It's all starting to wear me down. Even if I do find something, it's probably just going to be another paper pushing assistant position because I have no idea how to convince someone to take a chance on giving me something else. I'd rather not end up retiring from a part time hourly position without benefits.

[Crow]

I'll just pipe in and say that money doesn't buy happiness. File me under Wage Slave.

Right now, I am making more money than I ever thought I would be capable of, especially in my field. In addition, I own my own business, which is pretty much the only occupational enjoyment I can claim. My primary job pays a ludicrous amount of money. So much that in the current economy, I would be extremely foolish to walk away from it, or so I feel. Also, the income has allowed me to invest more into the business than I otherwise could have, for a given period of time that is, and has contributed a great deal to getting my business profitable in a much shorter period than previously envisioned.

On the flipside, the job is extremely boring. I produce literally nothing about 98% of the time, and so must look for ways to kill 40+ hours per week in a very restrictive environment. Supervision pays less than I make, and a brief stint up the managerial chain had me taking a near 50% pay cut. This would have been fine, were being a manager rewarding in any way. The structure of the company is so compartmentalized, that management is unable to enact change, even within their own departments. Before promoting, I had always wondered what happened to all these go-getters who had promoted up, only to turn into more of the same useless meatbag managers we already had. Well it turns out, it was the structure of the leadership, and a strong culture of complacence in it's highest levels. Rather than turn into a useless meatbag manager myself, I decided to resign back to my previous position where I at least had the autonomy to lead from within the team, and make a hell of a lot more money to boot.

But damn I hate the place. There are days I literally want to watch it all burn, and that can't be a good feeling to have. But damnit, I just can't bring myself to walk away from the money.

[Traab]

My biggest qualification has always been my ability to do the most mind numbingly boring jobs in the world. My last job started as a temp. My job was to sit in front of a pallet load of boxes full of small plastic pieces, and slide the cardboard label onto them. Thats all I did for 8 hours a day 5 days a week. For 3 months I did this mind numbing job, they kept sending me coworkers to work with me but they kept quitting. I think in that 3 month time period no less than 6 people were hired and quit the job. I have had other temp jobs along similar lines. In one case I worked for a week at a factory where their part testing machine was broken. I sat in front of a GIANT cardboard container full of parts I had to insert into a specially sized metal piece. If it fit, it was good.

Its funny really. Everyone complains about those jobs, but i love them. I can let my mind wander and just automatically do the work without any thought at all. I found myself writing fanfiction, creating and refining my zombie preparation guide, and holding mental debates with myself on a wide variety of topics, all while doing my job. Its WAY better than boring jobs that you have to pay attention to.

That first job? They picked me up permanently and put me on the molding machines. For another few months I did great. Then they started putting me on machines that had the insanely dull work, but I also had to do some small critical step every time the machine cycled (about once every 6 seconds) and if my mind wandered I would mess up the rhythm and the machine would get clogged with plastic and need to be cleaned out for an hour or so. They tend to frown on the machines going down for an hour due to employee foul ups. Despite the fact that I could work with 95% of the machines perfectly, they decided to keep shoving me onto the ones I would mess up on, and so they eventually fired me. /cry

[Surrealistik]

I'll just pipe in and say that money doesn't buy happiness. File me under Wage Slave.


Sure it does; up until a certain point: http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2019628,00.html

However, once you have the preponderance of your needs taken care of, it's not nearly so important to being happy.


By and large, I enjoy what I do, even if my income isn't especially stable and is overtly commission and bonus/performance reliant (commercial real estate and equities/foreign exchange trading & brokering). For the most part, I get to choose my own hours and be my own boss. My income tends to be in a constant state of flux, often oscillating between feast and famine. With planning and saving however, things tend to average out such that my standard of living is comfortable the vast majority of the time.

Still I'd be lying if I were to claim that the sheer volatility of my earnings never wears on me; there have been some dry spells/prolonged or sharp market down turns that have been legitimately harrowing and stressful. This is easily the biggest downside of my work situation, and something that has sorely tempted me to seek more reliable salaried compensation on multiple occasions.

[ForzaFiori]

I have a part time job in a failing company, which obviously doesn't pay much (besides the fact that the hours it requires limits me to only working summers and weekends, thanks to school. You can't wire a house only working after 5 PM). I've applied for jobs, and have been really annoyed by entry level positions that require job experience. How am I supposed to get experience working a cash register if even McDonald's expects you to know how at the get go?

Hopefully though, that will change soon. I have an application in for Teach For America, which if I'm accepted will get me a job that can pay the bills, at the very least, even if it won't make me massive amounts of money. If it falls through (which, sadly, the odds are in that favor. They don't accept alot of people), I'll probably be back to looking for a **** job that wants me to already have worked **** jobs -.-

[Talanic]

I kinda enjoy my current job - as a pizza guy. Doesn't mean I'm not looking for better.

My resume's strong. I've been working since age sixteen, held an office assistant job for nine years, even completed an internship at Disney World before grabbing a degree.

I'd like to get something better, although not really for myself - I'm fairly content, so long as my student loans don't wreck everything (although it looks like we'll be able to handle them). My wife, on the other hand, has a pretty stressful job and I'd like to take some of the pressure off of her.

Granted, she says, it would all get a lot easier if one specific coworker of hers would finally get fired. The boss is apparently collecting reason to do so, but if the reported insubordination, complaints from nearly every one of the woman's coworkers, massive abuse of the sick leave system (to the point of exceeding the family medical leave act) and general laziness aren't enough, then we're not sure what will be...especially because the boss apparently announces a crackdown when she's not there and backs down when confronted by the problem employee.

On the side, we're both trying to make money as writers, but we're not betting anything on that. It's a hobby that makes money, but right now the incoming $5 per month isn't exactly retirement money.

[Crow]

I kinda enjoy my current job - as a pizza guy.


I delivered pizza part-time in high school. It was great supplemental income, and I enjoyed it.

[Aedilred]

Its funny really. Everyone complains about those jobs, but i love them. I can let my mind wander and just automatically do the work without any thought at all. I found myself writing fanfiction, creating and refining my zombie preparation guide, and holding mental debates with myself on a wide variety of topics, all while doing my job. Its WAY better than boring jobs that you have to pay attention to.
I agree, up to a point. Low-paid, low-skill jobs tend to get worse the less mindless they become. At the bottom end, as you say, you can let your mind wander, but as thought processes start getting added, they become much more boring.

I'd rather do a job that was actually keeping me engaged and interested, though, than one which required minimal input on my end even if my mind was free to wander; it's just a better use of my time. Especially if the pay happens to go up correspondingly, which it usually (though not always) does.


Despite the fact that I could work with 95% of the machines perfectly, they decided to keep shoving me onto the ones I would mess up on, and so they eventually fired me. /cry
Sounds like the Peter Principle in action.

[Krazzman]

So far I never really had problems. I have a rather well paid job and I like it in the term that I like the income I get from doing it but I never had a problem "finding" a job.

After my A-Levels I started searching for apprenticeships since I didn't want to study informatics (heard that the courses where I live aren't that good and are rather boring). And went to a few interviews. Got only one no and had to tell the other employers no since by then I already had a contract.

After 3 years of apprenticeship I applied in our firm and instead of going further in programming I took sort of a semi-programmer/supporter/controller position and are now in my 5th year of work.

But even here I have some :smallfurious: moments. Like getting a change I have to implement. My boss gives me 3 days for it and basically I get the green light to start programming/analysing/testing only at the end of day two. Luckily it isn't that much and I can now start searching for testcases and start testing but it is annoying.

[Aedilred]

So far I never really had problems. I have a rather well paid job and I like it in the term that I like the income I get from doing it but I never had a problem "finding" a job.
I was the same. Then the recession happened. So much for that.

To be fair, I haven't been out of work for any extended periods for about four years, but little to none of the work I've had has been in a "career job", it's all been about paying the bills.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Krazzman
After my A-Levels I started searching for apprenticeships.... After 3 years of apprenticeship I applied in our firm and instead of going further in programming I took sort of a semi-programmer/supporter/controller position and are now in my 5th year of work.

You've highlighted one of the major differences between the German and American economies, and that's the apprenticeship program and what it means for workforce training. To the best of my knowledge, we really don't have anything like that over here--certainly not at the same pervasive scale, and absolutely not with the same commitment from employers.

As ForzaFiori alluded to, over here every employer demands that you already know how to do the job before your first day on the job. Companies complain incessantly that they can't find skilled workers to fill all their supposedly high-paying vacant positions--and yet, they're not willing to invest in on-the-job training, much less flirt with the sort of apprenticeship program that seems to work so well in Germany.

It's extremely frustrating--and it also means that literally millions of people, who are willing to learn fast and work hard, are shut out of the very jobs the employers claim they can't fill. Companies aren't willing to invest in their own prospective employees--not to mention the long-term economic stability of the country.

[Morgarion]

You've highlighted one of the major differences between the German and American economies, and that's the apprenticeship program and what it means for workforce training. To the best of my knowledge, we really don't have anything like that over here--certainly not at the same pervasive scale, and absolutely not with the same commitment from employers.

As ForzaFiori alluded to, over here every employer demands that you already know how to do the job before your first day on the job. Companies complain incessantly that they can't find skilled workers to fill all their supposedly high-paying vacant positions--and yet, they're not willing to invest in on-the-job training, much less flirt with the sort of apprenticeship program that seems to work so well in Germany.

It's extremely frustrating--and it also means that literally millions of people, who are willing to learn fast and work hard, are shut out of the very jobs the employers claim they can't fill. Companies aren't willing to invest in their own prospective employees--not to mention the long-term economic stability of the country.

Right? This is only going to get worse if they don't change their standards. I've applied for the same positions with the same companies multiple times - I know I don't have exactly the training and experience they 'require', but if they'd brought me or someone like me in for the position, they wouldn't still be looking.

[Karoht]

@Politics
I'm going to be extremely diligent in skirting political stuff here, as it very closely relates to my opinion on this topic. But I may slip up. If anyone sees something the mods might not like, feel free to point it out, I'll remove it immediately.


Wage Slavery
I watched Ducktails as a child. And a very poigniant quote from Scrooge McDuck stuck with me to this day.
"Work smarter, not harder."
It is a rule I stick by, especially while employed. Sadly it has rarely earned me any notice beyond the fact that I can usually finish in one day a workload that takes someone else a full week. Combined with turning most tasks into a bit of a game, I don't find most jobs I have worked at to be tedious or boring.
My grandfather was a big believer in the reverse mind you. He insisted that working hard was how you got your employer to notice you, promote you, and treat you well. He was a swiss baker and chocolatier with over 40 years experience. In his industry, hard work paid off because you 'got more done' or so he thought. I categorically proved that further efficiencies paid off for two reasons. You can't get people to work harder all the time, and real efficiency meant your hard work went much further.

So as far as my employment goes, I greatly disenjoy when someone says I need to work harder. It becomes a meaningless and empty statement. Especially when I'm getting things done at 5-10x the speed of 6 other people in the same office doing the same work. What would working harder accomplish that working smarter isn't? The fact that I have free time and I'm helping others do their work, along with taking on side projects--all because I'm working smarter--isn't good enough?

When I worked at a bank, despite not having the official managerial title, I ran the teller line quite often, while playing the role of a teller myself. I usually handled 3 people in the time it would take the other 5 tellers to handle one. All of my clients had their portfolio's analysed for referal opportunities while I did this, and I was leading the sales charts 2 to 1 to the rest of the tellers. And running the central cash. While conducting audits. And doing cold calls. And searching for outages and adjusting the main ledgers constantly. And getting the ATM's counted and reported, and doing our morning overdraft report and calls completed. And acting as the IT guy because our actual IT people never visited the branch. And had those other tellers been even 1/4 as efficient as me, I might have had some competition. Every time I went for a vacation, or was missing for a few working days, I walked back into a nightmare, and I was the only person who seemed willing or capable to fix it.

When I was passed over for promotions several times, I realized exactly how much of a sucker I was, and that for the first time in my life, a group of people were absolutely not worthy of my skills and talent. I was also told I should cut my hair short if I wanted to advance. Long hair was very "unprofessional" apparently.
I actually told my branch manager one day, with a calmness and sureness that would rival Leonard Nimoy's portrayal of Mr Spock, "Do not mistake my calm demenor and tone of voice for indications that I have free time. I assure you I am quite busy, and under much more stress than you realize. I am completing far more work than anyone in this branch, including yourself. This is what professional behavior looks like. Unlike yourself, who has made the unprofessional gesture of holding my career hostage based on appearances rather than any cracks in my performance or capability. If you have anything to say, say it now as I am a busy person doing most of the work to hold your branch together for you, I don't get a coffee break or lunch break, and I don't really have time to fill you in on all of your inadaquecies and inefficiencies, nevermind debating your professionalism VS mine. So if you could make this brief rather than further wasting my time, that would be most excellent."
He chose to say that I was overestimating my importance and that most of the things I was doing were "made up" rather than legitimate tasks. Yes, because conducting the audits that are a part of the weekly procedures in the manual must be a "made up" task so that I can slack off. Got it.

So I quit. And I made a point to visit every day at about the same time of day, to withdraw 20 bucks in cash. And every day, that lineup at that time of day got longer and longer, the service got slower and slower. The tellers were more stressed and tired and haggered looking every time I showed up. Day by day, the burdens I was carrying for all of them were perched on their backs.
Then one day, about 2 months later, I asked one of the senior tellers, how things were going without me. She cried. She broke down and cried in front of me. With an angry mob of clients in line behind me. I tried to teach her my methods, I tried to encourage her to be efficient, I tried to get her to take more responsibility rather than leaving it to me. I imagine this might have been what it was like for someone given a battlefield promotion in a major conflict. A soldier before, now in charge of the lives of a dozen men, and knowing fully and completely, that anything you did or didn't do could cost those men their lives. That was the level of stress now heaped upon this poor girl.

I found a better paying job where I do 1/4 of the work I used to do. I have much less oversight, so my efficiency isn't exactly noticed. However, my free time isn't bogged down because people see me as unbusy. The current job is boring and unfulfilling, but I have loads of free time and free reign to do whatever I want to kill the time. I used to be able to bring a laptop to work, do schoolwork or play games and the like, so long as I was discrete. Then another employee abused the privilage, so we lost the privilage. Otherwise, the job is good, but I'm only here for the wage slavery.


Technological Unemployment
I've often thought of going back to school to educate myself for a specific career. And then I've thought "how long until that gets automated, and why isn't it automated already."
Case Study: Audi VS GM
A few years ago, Audi opened up a new plant. It's nearly fully automated. Aside from the maintenance staff who work there to keep the place running, there are 7 workers on the factory line at any time. They are there to do the electrical installation work for some of the more high end electrical options.
Contrast that to the number of line workers at any GM plant.
3D Printing is getting pretty sophisticated as well. Someone 3D printed an entire car. Considering that a 3D printer starts at 3K or less, and there are many DIY kits out there for even less, how much longer does the average factory worker have left?

Case Study: Carl Jr's
They opened up an automated restaurant about 4 years ago, maybe further back. It's a success. They staff the place with 4-6 people (1/4 to 1/5 the staff of a high volumn location McDonalds) to cover the entire week. The person on shift is mostly there to receive inventory, do basic housekeeping and some maintenance on the machines (IE-The burger machine is clogged, unclog it with a broomstick), and handle customer inquiries if they are having trouble with the touchscreens.
My friend Alex, who follows automation very carefully, and runs several 3D printers, asked me one day, "How long until McDonalds takes those touch screens they have the employees use to ring in orders, and just turns them around towards the customers and lets them go at it?"
In other words, how long does the average fast food worker have left? How many people could potentially be unemployed if a massive automation sweep were to occur industry wide, globally?


How To End It
So for the above reasons, I realize that I'm a wage slave, simply running out the clock. Either I make enough money and retire before my job is re-staffed with a machine, or I get downsized and have to deal with it when that happens. Rather than fear these two outcomes, I've made peace with them. I accept that these two things will happen. Unless some sweeping changes are made, this sort of thing isn't going to go away. I could get into those suggestions but that would really be heavy on the politics, so I will have to withold comment there.
What I focused on instead was, what can I do? What can a single human being do to prepare for all this? How can a wage slave STOP being a wage slave? What are the options? Due to the stated scope of the thread, and possible political implications of such comments, I have to withhold for now. What I will say on the matter is, between personal experience and possible technological and social advances, I feel that Wage Slavery as it is known, will one day be a thing of the past, and that day is coming soon, due mostly to necessity. The fact of the matter is that so many jobs are replaceable with machines, and more technology is only going to widen the scope. Socially, the idea that society "needs jobs" in order to function just continues to fall flat upon the more I look at it.

"But Karoht, without jobs we would have no direction! We would turn out like those people on Wall-E."
If everyone's needs are met, I would greatly welcome a world where people are lazy, overweight, and content. As opposed to the world we live in now where there are quite a large number of people who are worked to to the bone, starving to death, and living in misery.

Wage Slavery is for the birds. For reals.

[Finlam]

3D Printing is getting pretty sophisticated as well. Someone 3D printed an entire car. Considering that a 3D printer starts at 3K or less, and there are many DIY kits out there for even less, how much longer does the average factory worker have left?

The printers that you can get for sub 1k are pretty swanky these days.
3d printer in your backpack (http://portabee3dprinter.com/)
Solidoodle (http://www.solidoodle.com/) - up to 8x8 3d printed stuff that uses free software and has solidly OK resolution (.1mm)
The Buckaneer (http://www.pirate3d.com/) - designed to be easy to use with (again) .1 mm resolution

If you want better resolution than that, you're gonna need a DLP printer or a stereolithography (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereolithography) printer and that's gonna run upwards of 1k. (Darn you patent trolls!!!!!!)

[AtlanteanTroll]

@Karoht: Where, exactly, would you go to get educated to work a job as a fast food worker or a factory worker? It's completely missing the point. The people working those jobs have no education and are therefor stuck with jobs that will end up being automated. Not all jobs can be eliminated by a machine.

EDIT: As an aside I am currently working for my college's dining service (AKA: doing dishes) so I have some supplementary income. Have yet to recieve my first paycheck, but I should have it by Friday. It's monotonous as Hell, but to tie in back to my response to Karoht, that's exactly why I am at college.

[Shyftir]

I did the dishes thing in college. It's gotten me more work than my degree...

I work in a deli. (advantages: co-workers to carry on discussions with, variable work that doesn't require me to stand in just one spot and repeat the same action for hours on end, decent wage (not great, decent): Disadvantages: moronic management, not enough staff, horrible hours under-appreciated)

I get a lot done and work steadily and effectively. I handle customers well and know how to prioritize. I am probably the most intelligent person in my department. (though I respect many of my co-workers) and I'm sick of seeing how wasted my potential is. I don't want to move up in this company. I don't really want to work in food service, but it's where I have experience and 'round here you either know somebody or have experience, there are no other ways to get employed effectively.

I really gotta break the chains holding me in my Wage Slavery...

[Karoht]

@Karoht: It's completely missing the point. The people working those jobs have no education and are therefore stuck with jobs that will end up being automated.Consider an unsavory question for a moment. Who's problem is that going to eventually be?
The corporations will eventually decide that the tax breaks they get for job creation aren't worth the costs of employing human beings, the costs and availability of automation is only getting better. People said the same thing about outsourcing jobs to Asia, look where we are now.
The problem will fall to the people being downsized, while the corporations cry poormouth about labor costs.



Not all jobs can be eliminated by a machine.Henry Ford said the same thing about making cars. The welding on the frame was too delicate for a machine. See my earlier case study about Audi.
On the flip side of that, google is making a car that drives itself, and is expected to launch it before the end of this decade. I never believed for a moment that a car could be handled by a computer. Turns out I'm very wrong.
We have machines that are at the beginnings of performing operations on human beings.
Heck, our best space explorer is a machine, Voyager, which just left the Solar System a week or two ago. And it was launched in the 70's. A machine older than me, probably older than most people who come to this website, is our best ever space explorer.
The idea that not all jobs can be eliminated is currently correct, I would be lying if I said or suggested otherwise. But not for long.



It's monotonous as Hell, but to tie in back to my response to Karoht, that's exactly why I am at college.Good. Enjoy your education my friend, it is your empowerment.


And with that, I say lets answer the question, what can a wage slave do about it?

1-Education-Get one. At all costs. Get one before the rush. Do it cheaply if possible. Corrispondance classes are a thing, you get a really flexible timetable. Even if all you are after is a basic first aid course, get it done.
2-Personal Research-Do some. Do lots of it. Find something you like to learn about and learn anything you can about it from the internet, from the library, from the book store, anything.
3-Budget-Trim it. Trim it while you can. Because when things are tough, tightening that belt hurts even more.
4-Jobs-Apply early, apply often, keep that resume up to date even if you don't think you will need it.
5-Work Smarter Not Harder-Just like ol' Unca Scrooge said.
6-Sustainability-If you have the ability to get into something sustainable, do it. I can spam off some links to help. Even if all you do is start growing some of your own food, that is a huge help.
7-Save-You will need a good nest egg. Even if for no other reason than when times get tough. You need the flexibility to pounce on good deals, to invest in your future, or even just to look out for your own retirement. Trust me. The former banker who saw what happened to people who didn't put away for a rainy day? The guy that made exception after exception for people down on their luck? The guy who helped people get their butts out of debt and back into a comfortable lifestyle? Trust me. Like any good gamer, save early, save often.
8-Self Respect-Do not fall into the trap that so many others do. Like Tyler Durden said in Fight Club "You are not your job." He was 100% right. Don't ever let your job define you as a person, define your lifestyle, define your choices. Have the Self Respect to define yourself.
9-Technology-Keep a very close eye on tech trends. There is a lot of money saving technology out there, if you only know where to look.

[Crow]

Well at least I don't need to worry about my job being automated any time soon...

On a good note, I actually got a lot done today, and the work day isn't even over. I had to step on some toes, go over a few heads, and piss a few people off to do it, but work is back on track. Basically the above is the only way to get anything to happen around here, and there are few willing to do it. Probably (part of) why I am so reviled around here, lol.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Consider an unsavory question for a moment. Who's problem is that going to eventually be?
The corporations will eventually decide that the tax breaks they get for job creation aren't worth the costs of employing human beings, the costs and availability of automation is only getting better. People said the same thing about outsourcing jobs to Asia, look where we are now.
The problem will fall to the people being downsized, while the corporations cry poormouth about labor costs.
My generation's, certainly--but you can't automate the humanities. And the sciences are tricky. You need a really thinking computer for that. But that's getting off task of this thread, I think.


Henry Ford said the same thing about making cars. The welding on the frame was too delicate for a machine. See my earlier case study about Audi.
On the flip side of that, google is making a car that drives itself, and is expected to launch it before the end of this decade. I never believed for a moment that a car could be handled by a computer. Turns out I'm very wrong.
We have machines that are at the beginnings of performing operations on human beings.
Heck, our best space explorer is a machine, Voyager, which just left the Solar System a week or two ago. And it was launched in the 70's. A machine older than me, probably older than most people who come to this website, is our best ever space explorer.
The idea that not all jobs can be eliminated is currently correct, I would be lying if I said or suggested otherwise. But not for long.
I think the prior portion of my post at least partially addresses this. But still, about Google Car, it'll be quite a while before that makes itself down to the likes of the non-insanely rich.


Good. Enjoy your education my friend, it is your empowerment.
Indeed, I am thus far.



1-Education-Get one. At all costs. Get one before the rush. Do it cheaply if possible. Correspondence classes are a thing, you get a really flexible timetable. Even if all you are after is a basic first aid course, get it done.
Of course, we are also reaching a problem in that even a college education won't save you. Graduate school is needed these days. And where does that put you in loans? Over $200,000 in debt, assuming you recieve no financial aid.


5-Work Smarter Not Harder-Just like ol' Unca Scrooge said.
I'd just like to chime in and say that my dad says this a lot (and he most certainly didn't watch cartoons as a child). But I can't help but think that if one is working smarter, are they not also working harder?

[Morgarion]

I found out today that I didn't receive the position I interviewed for on Friday afternoon. Not surprising.

I walk down there in the afternoon and this office is super bourgeois. They give me one of those little two sided applications to fill out that ask you everything that's already in your resume and cover letter, except they also have a space for you to tell them where you went to grammar school.

Whatever. I fill it out and hand it to the office manager and a couple minutes later she sends me back to the office. I wait for a couple more minutes and the boss comes back, greets me, sits down and starts reviewing the application I just filled out. He doesn't even speak to me while he's doing it. I try to be pleasant and get something going, but he just kind of shrugs and gives me some minimal answers. The interview begins and he starts to ask me a question he asked the evening before over the phone (basically, where am I from). A few words in, he remembers and switches gears. He gives me a bare bones description of the position's responsibilities. Any questions?

Yeah. Where the hell did my interview go? We've been in here for five minutes and half of that time was this clown reading my resume in front of me. At this point, it's obvious to me that I'm not getting the job. I try and ask a couple of questions about the responsibilities and opportunities with the company, anything to show this guy I'm interested and smart and capable. His response is basically that these are things we can talk about if they decide to bring me back in. I was supposed to call this afternoon and see where they were at in the process. And that's it. They show me out and I walk home.

GHRRRRG. I'm going to write this goon a letter (I'm pretty sure he doesn't answer his own emails). I'm sick of putting up with this stuff and I'm going to start calling these tadpoles out on it when I see it. It isn't the fact that they didn't go with me. That's fine, I understand that I'm not the right candidate. It doesn't mean that my time and I aren't worth the basic respect that they would show to any other guest.

[Traab]

You've highlighted one of the major differences between the German and American economies, and that's the apprenticeship program and what it means for workforce training. To the best of my knowledge, we really don't have anything like that over here--certainly not at the same pervasive scale, and absolutely not with the same commitment from employers.

As ForzaFiori alluded to, over here every employer demands that you already know how to do the job before your first day on the job. Companies complain incessantly that they can't find skilled workers to fill all their supposedly high-paying vacant positions--and yet, they're not willing to invest in on-the-job training, much less flirt with the sort of apprenticeship program that seems to work so well in Germany.

It's extremely frustrating--and it also means that literally millions of people, who are willing to learn fast and work hard, are shut out of the very jobs the employers claim they can't fill. Companies aren't willing to invest in their own prospective employees--not to mention the long-term economic stability of the country.

Agreed. I am an electrician. At least, I would LIKE to be. I went to trade school, passed all my classes, etc. No big company will hire me, because they want what is known as 4th year apprentices. Someone they can pay apprentice wages to do journeyman level work basically. See, you have to officially log a specific number of hours as an apprentice before you can be a journeyman. Theoretically, one of the downsides of being an apprentice is you arent supposed to ever work on your own. In actuality, a 4th year apprentice has enough experience that they can be sent to job sites to do the work and your boss saves tons of money because he is paying you significantly less as you arent yet a journeyman.

This refusal to hire new people means newbie apprentices like me have to work for the small time contractors whose office is their pickup truck and cell phone. Your odds of getting a flaky thieving jerk for a boss are roughly 100%. I have worked for three different small timers. Each screwed me over in a different way. The first boss strung me along for 3 months and never registered me so none of those hours counted towards my apprenticeship. The second boss hired me to fix a job his last apprentice royally borked up. he fired me the second it was done. The third guy stiffed me for a weeks pay and threatened me with legal action as his wife would claim I sexually harassed her if I didnt let it go.

I actually like my first boss because despite none of the hours counting, he had me doing all the work from day 1. In 3 months I was able to do literally everything a fire/security system installer needed to be able to do except for programming the keypad at the end. I was able to spin that into a years experience which got me my other jobs. I could do everything from inspecting a property and figuring out exactly what devices needed to go where, planning out the wiring pathways, running all the wires, hooking up all the devices, recording what all the wires did in case of future repair work, etc etc etc. I could troubleshoot any security system even if they werent ours because he made sure I knew exactly what everything was for and how it worked and it all carries over even in different designs. A big company might have gotten that far in a couple of years, assuming they would ever hire a new apprentice in the first place. (they wont)

[Douglas]

And with that, I say lets answer the question, what can a wage slave do about it?

1-Education-Get one. At all costs. Get one before the rush. Do it cheaply if possible. Corrispondance classes are a thing, you get a really flexible timetable. Even if all you are after is a basic first aid course, get it done.
2-Personal Research-Do some. Do lots of it. Find something you like to learn about and learn anything you can about it from the internet, from the library, from the book store, anything.
3-Budget-Trim it. Trim it while you can. Because when things are tough, tightening that belt hurts even more.
4-Jobs-Apply early, apply often, keep that resume up to date even if you don't think you will need it.
5-Work Smarter Not Harder-Just like ol' Unca Scrooge said.
6-Sustainability-If you have the ability to get into something sustainable, do it. I can spam off some links to help. Even if all you do is start growing some of your own food, that is a huge help.
7-Save-You will need a good nest egg. Even if for no other reason than when times get tough. You need the flexibility to pounce on good deals, to invest in your future, or even just to look out for your own retirement. Trust me. The former banker who saw what happened to people who didn't put away for a rainy day? The guy that made exception after exception for people down on their luck? The guy who helped people get their butts out of debt and back into a comfortable lifestyle? Trust me. Like any good gamer, save early, save often.
8-Self Respect-Do not fall into the trap that so many others do. Like Tyler Durden said in Fight Club "You are not your job." He was 100% right. Don't ever let your job define you as a person, define your lifestyle, define your choices. Have the Self Respect to define yourself.
9-Technology-Keep a very close eye on tech trends. There is a lot of money saving technology out there, if you only know where to look.
All of this is good advice, but I'd say the top #1 thing you can do to avoid having your job replaced by a machine is to get in the business of designing the machines that will be doing the replacing. That job isn't going to go away until we hit the Singularity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity), at which point it kind of won't matter any more.

Personally, I would suggest getting a decent Computer Science education and applying at Google or a similarly high tech company. If you have an aptitude for it, your "work smarter" attitude will serve you very well there.


Of course, we are also reaching a problem in that even a college education won't save you. Graduate school is needed these days. And where does that put you in loans? Over $200,000 in debt, assuming you recieve no financial aid.
Whether you need grad school depends on your field, and how far in debt you go depends on your field, your college, and a lot of other factors. I graduated with a Bachelor's degree in Computer Science from a highly respected college (Georgia Tech) 5 years ago, and I had only about $8,000 in student loans at the moment I graduated. I have had no further formal schooling, certainly no grad school classes, and I've had little trouble getting a series of good jobs since then.

When choosing how and where to get your choice of college education, you should be researching costs, scholarships, special loan options, and any other cost-mitigation options right along with the type and quality of education and degrees colleges offer. One thing I did that helped a lot was a cooperative education program, where I alternated semesters of full time classes with semesters of full time work at companies in the field I was working on a degree for. I didn't get paid nearly as much as a normal full employee of those companies would have, but I did get paid a lot more than any burger flipping job would have gotten, and I got relevant experience at the same time.

[ForzaFiori]

I watched Ducktails as a child. And a very poigniant quote from Scrooge McDuck stuck with me to this day.
"Work smarter, not harder."

I always preferred the way Bill Gates put it - "I choose a lazy person to do a hard job. Because a lazy person will find an easy way to do it.” If only I could convince someone to hire me as a professional lazy person. :smalltongue: You give me a job, I find the easiest way to do it and teach it to your workers, you give me lots of money.

[thorgrim29]

That's called being a lean/six sigma consultant

[Karoht]

My generation's, certainly--but you can't automate the humanities. And the sciences are tricky. You need a really thinking computer for that. But that's getting off task of this thread, I think.Indeed. But does that mean that there will be enough jobs to go around in the non-automatable fields? I sincerely doubt it.


I think the prior portion of my post at least partially addresses this. But still, about Google Car, it'll be quite a while before that makes itself down to the likes of the non-insanely rich.Launch is aimed at the end of this decade, and Google has never aimed at the rich for any of their demographics, and they've always been about doing things cheaply. I wouldn't expect them to go expensive with a car. I've heard rumors that they might partner up with Ta Ta Motors, the people who make a car for under 3000 bucks. Sidenote, Ta Ta Motors owners are also heavily invested in telecom and wireless in East Asia, which I would fully expect a Google car to be fairly reliant upon. Those two things speak of a cheap car, not an expensive one.


Of course, we are also reaching a problem in that even a college education won't save you. Graduate school is needed these days. And where does that put you in loans? Over $200,000 in debt, assuming you recieve no financial aid.Sad but true in most cases. This may sound altruistic and lacking in application, but one shouldn't get an education just to get a job, at least not in the the context of my recommendation. My suggestion towards education is to get your mind into the habits of learning, and then apply that towards the rest of one's life. It's the only way one is going to 'find a way out' of their wage slavery is if they are capable of learning and adapting.
And as Lorewalker Cho said, "Eyes open, always be learning."
Words to live by.



I'd just like to chime in and say that my dad says this a lot (and he most certainly didn't watch cartoons as a child). But I can't help but think that if one is working smarter, are they not also working harder?Yes and no. Lets take the Ducktails example. Scrooge used to be a boot polisher. And he would polish boots 1 at a time. It was tiring, and he could only take one customer at a time. So he came up with a clever device that would allow him to polish boots 5 at a time. He expends less effort and gets more done.

How about a non-fictional example? When I worked at the bank, and was stuck doing Central Treasurer (to which I will refer to as CT from here on out), my job was count money and post clearing (adding up cheques). But I usually had a backlog of support issues to go fix, I had cold calling to do. So I got the hang of counting money or adding up cheques while on the phone. One might interpret this as working harder, I disagree. Because I had to learn how to manage a conversation, meanwhile let numbers filter through my brain and to my hands adding them up on a calculator.
Eventually I even learned how to count cash at the same time, it was a simple mental trick of using the rhythem of my voice to count the money, a mnemonic to remember the number I just counted to, and then to record it on a sheet. I could count all the money in the branch by myself while on the phone with someone faster than two people could do it with no distractions. Mostly because I applied my brain to the task rather than merely brute forcing it.

I did the same thing when dealing with clients on the teller line. I went "off book" as it were and developed my own line of questioning rather than the canned material the institution insisted on. I could ask 3 questions, know exactly what the client wanted, and what product to try and sell them on at the same time. I then took that info and cross referenced it against the clients information (which I was required to review anyway, for even the simplest of transactions) and gained an even clearer picture of what product to recommend and exactly how to go about it. The client wasn't even aware they were being sold to usually until I brought out a form for them to sign. This allowed me to focus perfectly on selling without losing any of the customer service advantage, and gave me a clearer picture of what the clients needs were.
Sounds a heck of a lot smarter than trying to have 2 different conversations, including an awkward topic change to get the client to focus on what I was trying to sell them on.

I also had a personal rule. Never waste a client's time by asking for information that I can find on my own. Without working harder at all, this often gave clients the impression that I was more efficient at troubleshooting issues and solving problems for them, even though I was doing exactly what everyone else was doing, I was just asking fewer pointless questions than everyone else.
To extrapolate on this rule, I developed a short little script which could copy/paste the information from an account directly into our electronic forms. So rather than handing a client a blank form with nothing filled in, all I had to do was ask if anything needed updating (address, phone number, email number), punch up my program, push the button, the client didn't have to waste time filling anything in, usually all I needed was a signature. You have no idea how many sales this trick helped me land, because clients weren't scared off by seeing a big form to fill out and waste time doing.

Was I working harder? Maybe a little. Was I working smarter? Heck yeah. Was I able to get more done with the same amount of time? Absolutely.

At my current job, if I work smart rather than hard, I have about 2 hours of actual work to do (unless something goes horribly wrong) and about 6 hours to do research, talk on this forum, etc. If I were to work hard (basically ignoring my shortcuts) it would take me about 6 hours, and any emergencies would put me behind.

[Morgarion]

Alright. My strongly worded letter '(written by nothing but natural light!') is printed off and ready to go in the mail. I'm sure it will get laughed at around their office and posted to a fridge for a few weeks until the cleaning lady throws it out, but that's fine. I feel good about addressing these people directly. There's no reason I should just keep quiet about it. I already didn't get the job.

[Karoht]

Alright. My strongly worded letter '(written by nothing but natural light!') is printed off and ready to go in the mail. I'm sure it will get laughed at around their office and posted to a fridge for a few weeks until the cleaning lady throws it out, but that's fine. I feel good about addressing these people directly. There's no reason I should just keep quiet about it. I already didn't get the job.
Self-Respect! You has it!
Stick it to them and keep on looking.

[Velaryon]

I think I've got a good contribution to this thread.

I graduated high school in 2001. I lucked out and got a college scholarship that not only covered 100% of my tuition, but also gave me an allowance for textbooks. I actually made money when I sold my textbooks back at vastly reduced prices at the end of the semester, because it wasn't me paying for them in the first place. Thanks to that and good grades, I graduated with a BA in political science in 2005.

Only problem was, I had no idea what to do with it. My program hadn't driven home the importance of internships or really given much of anything in the way of advice about careers in which to apply this degree. And the career services department was worse than useless. They told me that I should have come to them when I was a sophomore (which nobody had ever bothered to tell me). All they did was point me to the school's job fair, in which all the employers were for the three or four programs that the university actually cared about (teaching, engineering, business, and nursing), along with a handful of employers who just wanted someone with a bachelor's degree.

So I graduated with no direction and little in the way of useful skills. I admit a lot of that was my fault. I live near Chicago, where the most common languages other than English are Spanish and Polish. And so of course the languages I studied in school were French and German. And I didn't even keep up with those once I was done taking the classes, so I remember the basic grammar and pronunciation rules and a handful of vocabulary from each language, but not enough to speak either one very well. And whenever I applied for a job, I would see "bi-lingual a plus" which of course means if you speak Spanish you will be a better candidate. I suppose I could have tried to learn it somewhere, but I didn't.

I wasted most of my twenties either not working at all or working crummy part-time jobs that paid minimum wage or often less (cash under the table). That continues to this day, in fact. About the only thing I had going for me was that I at least didn't have any student loan debt.

Last year I finally figured out what career I wanted, and applied to the nearby graduate school of Library and Information Science. I started volunteering not at my local library, but the next town over, and tried to do anything and everything they would let me do so I would pick up as much knowledge and experience as I could.

I got accepted to school, and while I was waiting to start I applied to as many entry-level library jobs as I could, which meant competing against high school students and occasionally people in my situation. I got several interviews but never got hired for the job.

I started school in January and quickly found that I had too many classes at once. I was able to get through them all (with straight A's no less) but job searching fell by the wayside for a few months. I took classes during the summer and tried to do some job hunting then as well, but without any luck. All along, I was still volunteering at the same library, where just about everyone knew or at least recognized me and I thought I was making useful contributions and building skills.

Just after the fall semester started (classes 6 and 7 out of my 12-course program), I got a tip from the Adult Services department head at the library I have been volunteering at that the children's department was hiring a page, an entry-level position that pays minimum wage for doing things like restocking shelves, pulling books for interlibrary loan, and so on.

I had been volunteering at this library for 14 months now, so I figured they knew me well enough to know I would excel at the job. I already do many of these things in my volunteering anyway, better than the people they're paying for it as far as I can tell. I believed (perhaps a little arrogantly) that when I applied for the job, it was just about a sure thing.

I was not even called for an interview. I inquired about whether my application had been received and was given a non-answer that they received a lot of applications and were taking them a few at a time. Last weekend, I received a letter in the mail thanking me for my interview (what interview?), and informing me that they had hired somebody else.

I have paid for most of my library schooling thus far with unsubsidized student loans, which means I am accruing 6.8% interest even as I continue to study. The part-time jobs that I do have provide little to no useful experience and not enough money to live on, let alone pay for school. Nonetheless, I have put as much as I can safely afford into tuition, to minimize the amount of loans I have to take out.

In the meantime, I cannot get hired anywhere, even at a library where I have volunteered for more than a year and everyone knows me. I am terrified that this will continue and that I will graduate and be unable to find work because I have no employment experience, because I can't get anyone to hire me now while I'm still in school, even for positions for which I am qualified or overqualified.

I continue to get good grades in my course work, but I learned the hard way just how little that is worth without job experience.

[Crow]

@Velaryon

I say this from a good deal a anecdotal evidence coming from people I know, and also from experiences in my personal employment history:

This seems to be happening more and more these days, and it is very disconcerting. I suspect the reason that so many volunteers are not being picked up by the places they volunteer is that the companies and institutions do not see the need to do so, because they are already receiving your services for free. I understand where they are coming from, after all, why pay if you don't have to. Still, I find it deplorable, and sadly, all the more common these days. Often this bleeds over into paid employees who never recieve a promotion, but are doing work far above their pay grade. Very unfortunate, and shows a complete lack of integrity (IMO) on the part of the employer.

[Velaryon]

@Velaryon

I say this from a good deal a anecdotal evidence coming from people I know, and also from experiences in my personal employment history:

This seems to be happening more and more these days, and it is very disconcerting. I suspect the reason that so many volunteers are not being picked up by the places they volunteer is that the companies and institutions do not see the need to do so, because they are already receiving your services for free. I understand where they are coming from, after all, why pay if you don't have to. Still, I find it deplorable, and sadly, all the more common these days. Often this bleeds over into paid employees who never recieve a promotion, but are doing work far above their pay grade. Very unfortunate, and shows a complete lack of integrity (IMO) on the part of the employer.

On the other hand, my (as of a few days ago) ex-girlfriend offered another thought about why they might have picked someone else. They know I'm overqualified but would take the job anyway, but they also know that I have higher ambitions and might think I'm not a good long-term investment because I would leave again if I could get something better. And honestly, that's a fair assessment. I don't know if it's what they were thinking or not though.

[Morgarion]

I have another interview tomorrow. It's part-time but I don't know what the hours are so I'm just hoping it's less part-time than what I have now or that it comes with a better hourly rate. It's a long shot, and I don't have any education, experience or specific interest in the industry.

I'm beginning to think I should take a break on the job search. I sent out almost two dozen resumes and I only heard back about the one. I don't even know what I want to do, if I could do anything. It's not that I've never thought about it, but I've never seen something and said 'I really want to do this' before.

[MrDirt]

I have another interview tomorrow. It's part-time but I don't know what the hours are so I'm just hoping it's less part-time than what I have now or that it comes with a better hourly rate. It's a long shot, and I don't have any education, experience or specific interest in the industry.

I'm beginning to think I should take a break on the job search. I sent out almost two dozen resumes and I only heard back about the one. I don't even know what I want to do, if I could do anything. It's not that I've never thought about it, but I've never seen something and said 'I really want to do this' before.

Keep at it. I applied to more jobs than that over a 2 year period before I founda job. Have you thought to attach a cover letter even if one isn't required.

[Morgarion]

Oh, come on now. I always send a cover letter explaining my previous positions, what I did and the skills it demonstrates that I possess, etc. Depending on the vibe I get from the posting, I might send my academic transcripts as well. I only send references when specifically requested.

[Crow]

Let's see the resume, Morgarion. Then we can all share :)
It is always good to get extra sets of eyes on our resume in order to improve them.

[Morgarion]

No offense, but I'd rather not put something that's recognizably my resume on the board. Just for privacy's sake.

[Morgarion]

Ha. The employer I sent that letter to placed another posting for the position. I guess the person they actually interviewed and decided to hire didn't work out. I imagine Friday was a pretty lousy day at the office.

[Traab]

You know, its funny, but I dont think I have ever been hired by anyone who I sent a resume out to. All of my jobs have been the sort where you turn up, they take 30 seconds to talk to you, then say you are hired. Thats everything from minimum wage jobs making fries at wendy's to working for electricians. I graduated from high school with a nurses aide license, applied to every hospital and nursing home within a reasonable distance of my house, (something like 3 dozen of them) and never heard back from any of them. All were hiring, none were hiring me.