D&D 3.5 Damage Reduction and Natural Weapons

[lytokk]

Recently, I've been finding out certain things that old DM's of mine said were in the rulebooks were actually house rules. Since I've taken to DMing again, this particular ruling came up, which led to a bit of confusion because I couldn't remember if I read this someplace, or if it was one of those old house rules.

The natural weapons/attacks of any creature with damage reduction are treated as having the same qualities as their specific damage reduction. For example, a lycanthrope with DR(x)/silver, their claws and bite attacks are treated as being silver. This is one of those things I'm looking at, having it not make sense in most cases. A devils natural attacks are treated as being good aligned for example.

The situation is a warforged with the Adamantine body feat will be up against a flesh golem. The warforged I fully believe his natural attack would cut through the DR of the flesh golem, being the warforged is made of adamantine, but it makes no sense that the flesh golem would cut through the DR of the warforged, as he's made out of flesh and bones. I don't mind house ruling things, but I like to have some sort of rule basis for things, mostly to keep my house rules consistent within themselves, and to make sure I don't make a ruling that completely contradicts an established rule.

[Flickerdart]

This is not a general rule - only creatures DR/magic automatically bypass /magic DR with natural weapons, and only creatures with alignment subtypes bypass the DR for those alignments with their natural weapons. Material-based DR does not allow a creature to bypass DR of that material.

[Diarmuid]

Flickr, where is that spelled out? DMG, MM?

[KillianHawkeye]

Yeah, the reason it doesn't make sense is because you're applying a rule about DR/magic to all types of DR.

Here are the actual rules:

Some monsters are vulnerable to piercing, bludgeoning, or slashing damage.

Some monsters are vulnerable to certain materials, such as alchemical silver, adamantine, or cold iron. Attacks from weapons that are not made of the correct material have their damage reduced, even if the weapon has an enhancement bonus.

Some monsters are vulnerable to magic weapons. Any weapon with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls overcomes the damage reduction of these monsters. Such creatures’ natural weapons (but not their attacks with weapons) are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

A few very powerful monsters are vulnerable only to epic weapons; that is, magic weapons with at least a +6 enhancement bonus. Such creatures’ natural weapons are also treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Some monsters are vulnerable to chaotic-, evil-, good-, or lawful-aligned weapons. When a cleric casts align weapon, affected weapons might gain one or more of these properties, and certain magic weapons have these properties as well. A creature with an alignment subtype (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful) can overcome this type of damage reduction with its natural weapons and weapons it wields as if the weapons or natural weapons had an alignment (or alignments) that match the subtype(s) of the creature.
(emphasis added)

EDIT:

Flickr, where is that spelled out? DMG, MM?

It's in the Monster Manual or here. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#damageReduction)

[lytokk]

Ok, thanks. I've been running into a lot of these things that were old house rules, and since my entire group came into the scene under the same DM, we all accepted them as cannon.

Is there a rule stating whether or not the warforged would have adamantine fists due to the adamantine body feat? or is adamantine fists something that exists as a warforged feat in some other sourcebook?

[Greenish]

The possible material of adamantine bodied warforged's slam isn't mentioned anywhere official that I know of. Mind though, that Adamantine Body only changes your armour plating, not the whole body (which also has stone and wood), and the adamantine is a weird sort of "biodegradable adamantine", which may have an effect.

You could always get a Battlefist made of Adamantine, of course.

[Shalist]

On one hand:

At the cost of mobility, a warforged character's body can be crafted with a layer of adamantine that provides formidable protective armor and some damage reduction.
Prerequisite

1st level only, Warforged,
Benefit

Your armor bonus is increased to +8 and you gain damage reduction 2/adamantine. However, your base land speed is reduced to 20 feet, and you are considered to be wearing heavy armor.


Gauntlet

This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes. A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack. The cost and weight given are for a single gauntlet. Medium and heavy armors (except breastplate) come with gauntlets.

On the other hand, Keith Baker suggests 'nay' (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-archive/threads/929001):


Q If a Warforged took the Adamantine Body Feat, is it ok to treat its Slam attack as adamantine for purpose of overcoming damage reduction?

A I wouldn't, personally. The Adamantine Body is very deceptive in its current name & description. Really, it implies a more heavily armored construction with some elements of adamantine-infused material, but I have never seen it as plates of solid adamantine attached to the exterior of the body. So I don't feel that it would be significant enough to add this – get an adamantine battlefist.

The armored body feats simply aren't described clearly. An adamantine body warforged is not simply supposed to be a standard warforged with some plates hammered on; if that was the case, why couldn't you add them later in life? These feats are supposed to reflect the fundamental construction of the warforged. A fighter with the Adamantine Body has more metal (both adamantine and steel) in his body. His joints and weak points are heavily reinforced. He is built to be able to shrug off blows that would seriously injure a composite warforged. The mithral warforged is armored, but designed for more graceful motion and fluid movement than the adamantine model. The composite is the base -- and yes, in my opinion, not very common. Warforged were made for war, and most would have one of the armor feats. The armor feats are not supposed to use as much of the rare ore as making a suit of platemail of that armor; the metal is spread throughout the body, and not as much is needed to provide the benefit (and again, in the case of Adamantine Body, the benefit also comes from the general solid construction).

[Alabenson]

The RAW regarding Damage Reduction and Natural Weapons is a little confusing. The clause regarding whether a creatures natural weapons can overcome like DR only applies to creatures with DR/magic or DR/epic unless otherwise specified. Therefore, neither the flesh golem nor the warforged can overcome the other's DR/adamantine.