[PF] Giants with potions of Enlarge Person

[Frosty]

Judt curious if anyone feels that if giants are using this simple, 50gp item, that their CR should go up by at least 1/2? That extra damage dice and extra reach can really suck, especially against lower-level parties. Or should I tell my players that they gear doesn't matter in terms of an encounter's rating? They like to complain about not getting enough exp, and I never know when I should give more if they're just a bit more optimized than usually presented in books.

[avr]

Giants normally can't use enlarge person; the humanoid type is not the same as the giant type. Enlarge person affects one humanoid creature.

Edit: one more thing PF changed. OK, it works now when it didn't all the way back to AD&Ds first ed. Yes, it should be worth a half CR or so.

[Frosty]

Yeah, it's a stealth buff to Enchantment as Charm Person, Hold Person, Dominate Person, etc now also on Giants. They do have more weaknesses now, but they can also benefit from things like Enlarge Person, so I'm trying to gauge their new difficulty.

[Psyren]

Yeah, it's a stealth buff to Enchantment as Charm Person, Hold Person, Dominate Person, etc now also on Giants. They do have more weaknesses now, but they can also benefit from things like Enlarge Person, so I'm trying to gauge their new difficulty.

More strengths and more weaknesses - shouldn't it be unchanged then?

It's not like potions are easy for them to come by - most giants have few spellcasters.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Well, it's a buff to the spellcasting PCs, who already had plenty of ways of safely dealing with big dumb ground pounders from a distance. And a nerf to the poor saps who actually need to get into melee to contribute.

So yeah, for the lower end giants, it definitely makes it more challenging. At least to a martial-heavy or balanced party. A caster party probably won't care.

[Squirrel_Dude]

I wouldn't imagine it would have much more of an effect than having any medium or larger humanoid character with access to that potion type would be. It might help slightly more, but equipment is part of any characters CR once you start customizing them, anyway.

[Psyren]

Well, it's a buff to the spellcasting PCs, who already had plenty of ways of safely dealing with big dumb ground pounders from a distance. And a nerf to the poor saps who actually need to get into melee to contribute.

How is it a nerf to melee? Which giants are running around with EP potions in their statblock?

I mean, you can add them in if you want to make the fight harder, but giving them consumables increases the CR so the system still takes that into account. It sounds like you're saying "if I make this fight harder, it will get harder!" Which is a tautology.


I wouldn't imagine it would have much more of an effect than having any medium or larger humanoid character with access to that potion type would be. It might help slightly more, but equipment is part of any characters CR once you start customizing them, anyway.

Yep.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Enlarge Person would give the giants extra reach and damage which makes them much more threatening to melee characters who risk AoO by just getting close, never mind giants are normally hard hitting bruisers to them. Meanwhile casters (or ranged characters I guess) don't have to change their tactics that much if they even have to.