Tim Proctor
2013-09-23, 10:19 PM
First off I want to say that there are is a lot of math in this, but thankfully excel did a majority of it for me. I did this because I wanted to have a BBEG that was on equal terms with the PCs or at least created with the same terms that they were and with rules as written and balanced that way. The basic premise was that the BBEG owned a super massive chain of Taverns call WalTavern, McTavern, or Los Tavern Hermanos, I chose taverns because they added a lot of flexibility that other, however Shops are more profitable.
The first issues were to find out a way to have multiple businesses without having to be present at each of them and this was already addressed in the DMG II.
Hiring a specialist to be a business partner is an excellent idea for a PC who wants to start a business as an additional source of income but doesn’t want to be tied down to the business. By having the specialist make the profit checks, the PC is free to do as he pleases with his time. - DMG II pg 185
Then I needed to calculate the cost of the business, so with a WBL situation a player can purchase a tavern at level 7 (assuming they spend a minimal amount on gear, so I suggest a spellcaster).
Descriptor | Costs | Notes
Initial Investment | 8,000.00 | Tavern in a Town
Resources | 8,000.00 | Tavern in a Town
Upgrade | 2,000.00 |
Specialists and Partners | 825.00 |
Total | 18,825.00 |
A player can start a shop at 6th level as it only requires 11,825gp to start.
Upgrading is a key component of a business, and is one of the fundamental profiting factors:
If the business owner invests 25% of the initial capital cost of the business, he rolls 1d4 and adds the result as a permanent bonus on future profit checks. A business owner can only benefit from one upgrade every three months. - DMG II pg 185
For the sake of this exercise we took an average of 2.5 (the average of a d4), and spread that out.
If we had the business in a Metropolis (as most would be inclined) it would cost 32,000 in initial capital and 8,000 per upgrade. At an increase of 125gp a month it would require 64 months (over 5 years) to see profit from the upgrade. With a 2,000gp upgrade we see a profit in 16 months (over 1 year), but this is about long term gains here and this does add up.
The basic calculations for the profit check are below:
Description | Positive | Negative | Notes
Skill Modifier (Hireling) | 23.00 | 3.00 | A level 5 specialist hireling costs 4gp a day, with 30 days in a month that is 120gp, we've paying him 5gp a day to ensure loyalty.
Business Partners (11) | 22.00 | 13.50 | Level 2 specialists costs 2 gp a day, we are hiring 11, some are sales, some are recruiting (to replace sales people that quit, etc.), there is an extra 10gp in the costs for performance bonuses.
Specialists (5) | 10.00 | 5.00 | Specialists (in the business sense) cost 10, 30, 50, 70 and 90gp for a total of 250g
Upgrade | 2.50 | | This is the fist upgrade
High Risk | | 4.00 |
Prorata Upgrade | | 13.50 | 8,000 * 25% = 2,000 /3 = 667 a month
Calculate Modifier | | 25.00 |
Take a 10 | 10.00 | |
Total | 67.50 | 64.00 |
We're going to have the hireling take 10, with an average of 10.5 the benefits of 25gp a month isn't worth the variance in the situation.
He can take 10 on a profit check if he has at least 1 rank in the primary skill. He can never take 20 on a profit check. - DMG II pg 183
Also specialists and business partners (which are actually employees) are a key factor in the profitability. Those are explained in the chart above. I chose the amount of 'business partners' because I assume a 2 people per shift (its a town after all not a Metropolis), 3 8-hour shifts per day, 5 days on results in 2 days off, etc. So we can have 9 people running the day-to-day operations. This leaves 1 person to do human resources (recruiting, training, etc.) to ensure we constantly have hirelings working, and 1 person to do accounting. As well as the specialist who is making the profit check themselves. In a metropolis someone could easily justify having more employees working there.
This is what the net looks like spread out over time.
Year | Month 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | YGP | Culmative to date
1.00 | 3.50 | 3.50 | 3.50 | 6.00 | 6.00 | 6.00 | 8.50 | 8.50 | 8.50 | 11.00 | 11.00 | 11.00 | 4,350.00 |
2.00 | 14.50 | 14.50 | 14.50 | 17.00 | 17.00 | 17.00 | 19.50 | 19.50 | 19.50 | 22.00 | 22.00 | 22.00 | 10,950.00 | 15,300.00
3.00 | 25.50 | 25.50 | 25.50 | 28.00 | 28.00 | 28.00 | 30.50 | 30.50 | 30.50 | 33.00 | 33.00 | 33.00 | 17,550.00 | 32,850.00
4.00 | 36.50 | 36.50 | 36.50 | 39.00 | 39.00 | 39.00 | 41.50 | 41.50 | 41.50 | 44.00 | 44.00 | 44.00 | 24,150.00 | 57,000.00
5.00 | 47.50 | 47.50 | 47.50 | 50.00 | 50.00 | 50.00 | 52.50 | 52.50 | 52.50 | 55.00 | 55.00 | 55.00 | 30,750.00 | 87,750.00
6.00 | 58.50 | 58.50 | 58.50 | 61.00 | 61.00 | 61.00 | 63.50 | 63.50 | 63.50 | 66.00 | 66.00 | 66.00 | 37,350.00 | 125,100.00
7.00 | 69.50 | 69.50 | 69.50 | 72.00 | 72.00 | 72.00 | 74.50 | 74.50 | 74.50 | 77.00 | 77.00 | 77.00 | 43,950.00 | 169,050.00
8.00 | 80.50 | 80.50 | 80.50 | 83.00 | 83.00 | 83.00 | 85.50 | 85.50 | 85.50 | 88.00 | 88.00 | 88.00 | 50,550.00 | 219,600.00
9.00 | 91.50 | 91.50 | 91.50 | 94.00 | 94.00 | 94.00 | 96.50 | 96.50 | 96.50 | 99.00 | 99.00 | 99.00 | 57,150.00 | 276,750.00
10.00 | 102.50 | 102.50 | 102.50 | 105.00 | 105.00 | 105.00 | 107.50 | 107.50 | 107.50 | 110.00 | 110.00 | 110.00 | 63,750.00 | 340,500.00
11.00 | 113.50 | 113.50 | 113.50 | 116.00 | 116.00 | 116.00 | 118.50 | 118.50 | 118.50 | 121.00 | 121.00 | 121.00 | 70,350.00 | 410,850.00
12.00 | 124.50 | 124.50 | 124.50 | 127.00 | 127.00 | 127.00 | 129.50 | 129.50 | 129.50 | 132.00 | 132.00 | 132.00 | 76,950.00 | 487,800.00
13.00 | 135.50 | 135.50 | 135.50 | 138.00 | 138.00 | 138.00 | 140.50 | 140.50 | 140.50 | 143.00 | 143.00 | 143.00 | 83,550.00 | 571,350.00
14.00 | 146.50 | 146.50 | 146.50 | 149.00 | 149.00 | 149.00 | 151.50 | 151.50 | 151.50 | 154.00 | 154.00 | 154.00 | 90,150.00 | 661,500.00
15.00 | 157.50 | 157.50 | 157.50 | 160.00 | 160.00 | 160.00 | 162.50 | 162.50 | 162.50 | 165.00 | 165.00 | 165.00 | 96,750.00 | 758,250.00
16.00 | 168.50 | 168.50 | 168.50 | 171.00 | 171.00 | 171.00 | 173.50 | 173.50 | 173.50 | 176.00 | 176.00 | 176.00 | 103,350.00 | 857,250.00
17.00 | 179.50 | 179.50 | 179.50 | 182.00 | 182.00 | 182.00 | 184.50 | 184.50 | 184.50 | 187.00 | 187.00 | 187.00 | 109,950.00 | 956,250.00
18.00 | 190.50 | 190.50 | 190.50 | 193.00 | 193.00 | 193.00 | 195.50 | 195.50 | 195.50 | 198.00 | 198.00 | 198.00 | 116,550.00 | 1,055,250.00
19.00 | 201.50 | 201.50 | 201.50 | 204.00 | 204.00 | 204.00 | 206.50 | 206.50 | 206.50 | 209.00 | 209.00 | 209.00 | 123,150.00 | 1,154,250.00
20.00 | 212.50 | 212.50 | 212.50 | 215.00 | 215.00 | 215.00 | 217.50 | 217.50 | 217.50 | 220.00 | 220.00 | 220.00 | 129,750.00 | 1,253,250.00
Another issue was the issue regarding 'lots' or 'a chain' of taverns so with spreadsheets I calculated what it would be like if each year the owner took 10%, invested the rest in opening new stores, and then took any excess. This is what the power of businesses looks like over time.
Year | Net Profit | New Tavern | Take Home Pay | Profit To Date
Year 2 | 15,300.00 | 0.00 | 15,300.00 |
Year 3 | 21,900.00 | 1.00 | 3,075.00 | 18,375.00
Year 4 | 39,450.00 | 1.00 | 20,625.00 | 39,000.00
Year 5 | 63,600.00 | 3.00 | 7,125.00 | 46,125.00
Year 6 | 122,850.00 | 5.00 | 28,725.00 | 74,850.00
Year 7 | 190,800.00 | 9.00 | 21,375.00 | 96,225.00
Year 8 | 309,150.00 | 14.00 | 45,600.00 | 141,825.00
Year 9 | 508,650.00 | 24.00 | 56,850.00 | 198,675.00
Year 10 | 844,050.00 | 40.00 | 91,050.00 | 289,725.00
Year 11 | 1,407,450.00 | 67.00 | 146,175.00 | 435,900.00
Year 12 | 2,352,300.00 | 112.00 | 243,900.00 | 679,800.00
Year 13 | 3,935,100.00 | 188.00 | 396,000.00 | 1,075,800.00
Year 14 | 6,587,700.00 | 314.00 | 676,650.00 | 1,752,450.00
Year 15 | 11,029,200.00 | 527.00 | 1,108,425.00 | 2,860,875.00
Year 16 | 18,469,650.00 | 883.00 | 1,847,175.00 | 4,708,050.00
Year 17 | 30,936,900.00 | 1,479.00 | 3,094,725.00 | 7,802,775.00
Year 18 | 51,824,550.00 | 2,477.00 | 5,195,025.00 | 12,997,800.00
Year 19 | 86,814,900.00 | 4,150.00 | 8,691,150.00 | 21,688,950.00
Year 20 | 145,431,000.00 | 6,952.00 | 14,559,600.00 | 36,248,550.00
Total | 360,904,500.00 | 17,246.00 | |
If you are running the shop program instead of taverns (or both) then here is the chart:
Year | Net Profit | New Shops| Take Home Pay | Profit To Date
Year 2 | 16,500.00 | 1.00 | 4,675.00 |
Year 3 | 23,100.00 | 1.00 | 11,275.00 | 15,950.00
Year 4 | 41,250.00 | 3.00 | 5,775.00 | 21,725.00
Year 5 | 75,900.00 | 5.00 | 16,775.00 | 38,500.00
Year 6 | 173,250.00 | 13.00 | 19,525.00 | 58,025.00
Year 7 | 310,200.00 | 23.00 | 38,225.00 | 96,250.00
Year 8 | 582,450.00 | 44.00 | 62,150.00 | 158,400.00
Year 9 | 1,110,450.00 | 84.00 | 117,150.00 | 275,550.00
Year 10 | 2,126,850.00 | 161.00 | 223,025.00 | 498,575.00
Year 11 | 4,078,800.00 | 310.00 | 413,050.00 | 911,625.00
Year 12 | 7,830,900.00 | 596.00 | 783,200.00 | 1,694,825.00
Year 13 | 15,044,700.00 | 1,145.00 | 1,505,075.00 | 3,199,900.00
Year 14 | 28,909,650.00 | 2,200.00 | 2,894,650.00 | 6,094,550.00
Year 15 | 55,553,850.00 | 4,228.00 | 5,557,750.00 | 11,652,300.00
Year 16 | 106,756,650.00 | 8,125.00 | 10,678,525.00 | 22,330,825.00
Year 17 | 205,154,400.00 | 15,614.00 | 20,518,850.00 | 42,849,675.00
Year 18 | 394,247,700.00 | 30,006.00 | 39,426,750.00 | 82,276,425.00
Year 19 | 757,633,800.00 | 57,663.00 | 75,768,825.00 | 158,045,250.00
Year 20 | 1,455,961,650.00 | 110,813.00 | 145,597,925.00 | 303,643,175.00
Total | 3,035,632,050.00 | 231,035.00 | |
Note: the higher end stuff works if the world is that big, and such, it works for justification of BBEG gear, fortresses, etc. and while I would probably let a player get away with some of it, I don't think I would allow them to own 20,000 taverns.
The first issues were to find out a way to have multiple businesses without having to be present at each of them and this was already addressed in the DMG II.
Hiring a specialist to be a business partner is an excellent idea for a PC who wants to start a business as an additional source of income but doesn’t want to be tied down to the business. By having the specialist make the profit checks, the PC is free to do as he pleases with his time. - DMG II pg 185
Then I needed to calculate the cost of the business, so with a WBL situation a player can purchase a tavern at level 7 (assuming they spend a minimal amount on gear, so I suggest a spellcaster).
Descriptor | Costs | Notes
Initial Investment | 8,000.00 | Tavern in a Town
Resources | 8,000.00 | Tavern in a Town
Upgrade | 2,000.00 |
Specialists and Partners | 825.00 |
Total | 18,825.00 |
A player can start a shop at 6th level as it only requires 11,825gp to start.
Upgrading is a key component of a business, and is one of the fundamental profiting factors:
If the business owner invests 25% of the initial capital cost of the business, he rolls 1d4 and adds the result as a permanent bonus on future profit checks. A business owner can only benefit from one upgrade every three months. - DMG II pg 185
For the sake of this exercise we took an average of 2.5 (the average of a d4), and spread that out.
If we had the business in a Metropolis (as most would be inclined) it would cost 32,000 in initial capital and 8,000 per upgrade. At an increase of 125gp a month it would require 64 months (over 5 years) to see profit from the upgrade. With a 2,000gp upgrade we see a profit in 16 months (over 1 year), but this is about long term gains here and this does add up.
The basic calculations for the profit check are below:
Description | Positive | Negative | Notes
Skill Modifier (Hireling) | 23.00 | 3.00 | A level 5 specialist hireling costs 4gp a day, with 30 days in a month that is 120gp, we've paying him 5gp a day to ensure loyalty.
Business Partners (11) | 22.00 | 13.50 | Level 2 specialists costs 2 gp a day, we are hiring 11, some are sales, some are recruiting (to replace sales people that quit, etc.), there is an extra 10gp in the costs for performance bonuses.
Specialists (5) | 10.00 | 5.00 | Specialists (in the business sense) cost 10, 30, 50, 70 and 90gp for a total of 250g
Upgrade | 2.50 | | This is the fist upgrade
High Risk | | 4.00 |
Prorata Upgrade | | 13.50 | 8,000 * 25% = 2,000 /3 = 667 a month
Calculate Modifier | | 25.00 |
Take a 10 | 10.00 | |
Total | 67.50 | 64.00 |
We're going to have the hireling take 10, with an average of 10.5 the benefits of 25gp a month isn't worth the variance in the situation.
He can take 10 on a profit check if he has at least 1 rank in the primary skill. He can never take 20 on a profit check. - DMG II pg 183
Also specialists and business partners (which are actually employees) are a key factor in the profitability. Those are explained in the chart above. I chose the amount of 'business partners' because I assume a 2 people per shift (its a town after all not a Metropolis), 3 8-hour shifts per day, 5 days on results in 2 days off, etc. So we can have 9 people running the day-to-day operations. This leaves 1 person to do human resources (recruiting, training, etc.) to ensure we constantly have hirelings working, and 1 person to do accounting. As well as the specialist who is making the profit check themselves. In a metropolis someone could easily justify having more employees working there.
This is what the net looks like spread out over time.
Year | Month 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | YGP | Culmative to date
1.00 | 3.50 | 3.50 | 3.50 | 6.00 | 6.00 | 6.00 | 8.50 | 8.50 | 8.50 | 11.00 | 11.00 | 11.00 | 4,350.00 |
2.00 | 14.50 | 14.50 | 14.50 | 17.00 | 17.00 | 17.00 | 19.50 | 19.50 | 19.50 | 22.00 | 22.00 | 22.00 | 10,950.00 | 15,300.00
3.00 | 25.50 | 25.50 | 25.50 | 28.00 | 28.00 | 28.00 | 30.50 | 30.50 | 30.50 | 33.00 | 33.00 | 33.00 | 17,550.00 | 32,850.00
4.00 | 36.50 | 36.50 | 36.50 | 39.00 | 39.00 | 39.00 | 41.50 | 41.50 | 41.50 | 44.00 | 44.00 | 44.00 | 24,150.00 | 57,000.00
5.00 | 47.50 | 47.50 | 47.50 | 50.00 | 50.00 | 50.00 | 52.50 | 52.50 | 52.50 | 55.00 | 55.00 | 55.00 | 30,750.00 | 87,750.00
6.00 | 58.50 | 58.50 | 58.50 | 61.00 | 61.00 | 61.00 | 63.50 | 63.50 | 63.50 | 66.00 | 66.00 | 66.00 | 37,350.00 | 125,100.00
7.00 | 69.50 | 69.50 | 69.50 | 72.00 | 72.00 | 72.00 | 74.50 | 74.50 | 74.50 | 77.00 | 77.00 | 77.00 | 43,950.00 | 169,050.00
8.00 | 80.50 | 80.50 | 80.50 | 83.00 | 83.00 | 83.00 | 85.50 | 85.50 | 85.50 | 88.00 | 88.00 | 88.00 | 50,550.00 | 219,600.00
9.00 | 91.50 | 91.50 | 91.50 | 94.00 | 94.00 | 94.00 | 96.50 | 96.50 | 96.50 | 99.00 | 99.00 | 99.00 | 57,150.00 | 276,750.00
10.00 | 102.50 | 102.50 | 102.50 | 105.00 | 105.00 | 105.00 | 107.50 | 107.50 | 107.50 | 110.00 | 110.00 | 110.00 | 63,750.00 | 340,500.00
11.00 | 113.50 | 113.50 | 113.50 | 116.00 | 116.00 | 116.00 | 118.50 | 118.50 | 118.50 | 121.00 | 121.00 | 121.00 | 70,350.00 | 410,850.00
12.00 | 124.50 | 124.50 | 124.50 | 127.00 | 127.00 | 127.00 | 129.50 | 129.50 | 129.50 | 132.00 | 132.00 | 132.00 | 76,950.00 | 487,800.00
13.00 | 135.50 | 135.50 | 135.50 | 138.00 | 138.00 | 138.00 | 140.50 | 140.50 | 140.50 | 143.00 | 143.00 | 143.00 | 83,550.00 | 571,350.00
14.00 | 146.50 | 146.50 | 146.50 | 149.00 | 149.00 | 149.00 | 151.50 | 151.50 | 151.50 | 154.00 | 154.00 | 154.00 | 90,150.00 | 661,500.00
15.00 | 157.50 | 157.50 | 157.50 | 160.00 | 160.00 | 160.00 | 162.50 | 162.50 | 162.50 | 165.00 | 165.00 | 165.00 | 96,750.00 | 758,250.00
16.00 | 168.50 | 168.50 | 168.50 | 171.00 | 171.00 | 171.00 | 173.50 | 173.50 | 173.50 | 176.00 | 176.00 | 176.00 | 103,350.00 | 857,250.00
17.00 | 179.50 | 179.50 | 179.50 | 182.00 | 182.00 | 182.00 | 184.50 | 184.50 | 184.50 | 187.00 | 187.00 | 187.00 | 109,950.00 | 956,250.00
18.00 | 190.50 | 190.50 | 190.50 | 193.00 | 193.00 | 193.00 | 195.50 | 195.50 | 195.50 | 198.00 | 198.00 | 198.00 | 116,550.00 | 1,055,250.00
19.00 | 201.50 | 201.50 | 201.50 | 204.00 | 204.00 | 204.00 | 206.50 | 206.50 | 206.50 | 209.00 | 209.00 | 209.00 | 123,150.00 | 1,154,250.00
20.00 | 212.50 | 212.50 | 212.50 | 215.00 | 215.00 | 215.00 | 217.50 | 217.50 | 217.50 | 220.00 | 220.00 | 220.00 | 129,750.00 | 1,253,250.00
Another issue was the issue regarding 'lots' or 'a chain' of taverns so with spreadsheets I calculated what it would be like if each year the owner took 10%, invested the rest in opening new stores, and then took any excess. This is what the power of businesses looks like over time.
Year | Net Profit | New Tavern | Take Home Pay | Profit To Date
Year 2 | 15,300.00 | 0.00 | 15,300.00 |
Year 3 | 21,900.00 | 1.00 | 3,075.00 | 18,375.00
Year 4 | 39,450.00 | 1.00 | 20,625.00 | 39,000.00
Year 5 | 63,600.00 | 3.00 | 7,125.00 | 46,125.00
Year 6 | 122,850.00 | 5.00 | 28,725.00 | 74,850.00
Year 7 | 190,800.00 | 9.00 | 21,375.00 | 96,225.00
Year 8 | 309,150.00 | 14.00 | 45,600.00 | 141,825.00
Year 9 | 508,650.00 | 24.00 | 56,850.00 | 198,675.00
Year 10 | 844,050.00 | 40.00 | 91,050.00 | 289,725.00
Year 11 | 1,407,450.00 | 67.00 | 146,175.00 | 435,900.00
Year 12 | 2,352,300.00 | 112.00 | 243,900.00 | 679,800.00
Year 13 | 3,935,100.00 | 188.00 | 396,000.00 | 1,075,800.00
Year 14 | 6,587,700.00 | 314.00 | 676,650.00 | 1,752,450.00
Year 15 | 11,029,200.00 | 527.00 | 1,108,425.00 | 2,860,875.00
Year 16 | 18,469,650.00 | 883.00 | 1,847,175.00 | 4,708,050.00
Year 17 | 30,936,900.00 | 1,479.00 | 3,094,725.00 | 7,802,775.00
Year 18 | 51,824,550.00 | 2,477.00 | 5,195,025.00 | 12,997,800.00
Year 19 | 86,814,900.00 | 4,150.00 | 8,691,150.00 | 21,688,950.00
Year 20 | 145,431,000.00 | 6,952.00 | 14,559,600.00 | 36,248,550.00
Total | 360,904,500.00 | 17,246.00 | |
If you are running the shop program instead of taverns (or both) then here is the chart:
Year | Net Profit | New Shops| Take Home Pay | Profit To Date
Year 2 | 16,500.00 | 1.00 | 4,675.00 |
Year 3 | 23,100.00 | 1.00 | 11,275.00 | 15,950.00
Year 4 | 41,250.00 | 3.00 | 5,775.00 | 21,725.00
Year 5 | 75,900.00 | 5.00 | 16,775.00 | 38,500.00
Year 6 | 173,250.00 | 13.00 | 19,525.00 | 58,025.00
Year 7 | 310,200.00 | 23.00 | 38,225.00 | 96,250.00
Year 8 | 582,450.00 | 44.00 | 62,150.00 | 158,400.00
Year 9 | 1,110,450.00 | 84.00 | 117,150.00 | 275,550.00
Year 10 | 2,126,850.00 | 161.00 | 223,025.00 | 498,575.00
Year 11 | 4,078,800.00 | 310.00 | 413,050.00 | 911,625.00
Year 12 | 7,830,900.00 | 596.00 | 783,200.00 | 1,694,825.00
Year 13 | 15,044,700.00 | 1,145.00 | 1,505,075.00 | 3,199,900.00
Year 14 | 28,909,650.00 | 2,200.00 | 2,894,650.00 | 6,094,550.00
Year 15 | 55,553,850.00 | 4,228.00 | 5,557,750.00 | 11,652,300.00
Year 16 | 106,756,650.00 | 8,125.00 | 10,678,525.00 | 22,330,825.00
Year 17 | 205,154,400.00 | 15,614.00 | 20,518,850.00 | 42,849,675.00
Year 18 | 394,247,700.00 | 30,006.00 | 39,426,750.00 | 82,276,425.00
Year 19 | 757,633,800.00 | 57,663.00 | 75,768,825.00 | 158,045,250.00
Year 20 | 1,455,961,650.00 | 110,813.00 | 145,597,925.00 | 303,643,175.00
Total | 3,035,632,050.00 | 231,035.00 | |
Note: the higher end stuff works if the world is that big, and such, it works for justification of BBEG gear, fortresses, etc. and while I would probably let a player get away with some of it, I don't think I would allow them to own 20,000 taverns.