General Purpose 13th Age Thread

[Shyftir]

This thread is for the discussion and promulgation of Rob Heinsoo and Jonathan Tweet's d20 masterpiece 13th Age.

Basically I know there are a few of us here who are into it, and I would like to be discussing it with them.

To start the conversation: Is anybody here starting to do any homebrew for it? I'm working on a warlock in the 3.5 vein. I'm also planning on writing my campaign world with it in mind. So yes, I am a fanboy. So come on in and gush with me!

[AvianMalkavian]

I'm loving this game. I had heard of it in passing while it was going through its beta phase and just kinda brushed it off. Now that its out, I'm quickly realizing just how awesome it is. It honestly feels like 4th Edition with all of the bothersome stuff taken out.

I've noticed that RPGs seem to be leaning towards a stronger narrative focus and 13th Age is definitely doing that. I love the amount of freedom that has been given to players with One Unique Things, Icon Relationships, and Backgrounds. And I love how those three things can really give you a solid vision of your character and who they are.

ARGH, I love 13th Age! It's soooo good! :smallbiggrin:

[Shyftir]

So what is the best One Unique Thing you've come up with?

So far "Scion of a Lost House of Kings" is the best one I've done.

[AvianMalkavian]

I've come up with several, though I think my favorite was for a Wizard who had "I accidentally created owlbears."

[Kiero]

It's looking a lot like 13A may become our new main game, the GM is liking what he's reading. My group are burned out on 3.x and find 4e too combat-heavy for anything other than relatively short stints.

My GM is already coming up with his own classes to test things out. A more complex variant of the Barbarian: the Fury (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?702955-13th-Age-Alternate-Berserker-Type-Class-The-Fury). Also working on a more complicated Fighter (with non-random maneuvers) called the Vanguard (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?703452-13th-Age-Alternate-Fighter-Warlord-Type-Class-The-Vanguard).

EDIT: It turns out the Vanguard has a bit of Tactical Warlord in it too. Which is neat.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

So what is the best One Unique Thing you've come up with?

So far "Scion of a Lost House of Kings" is the best one I've done.
When I played a Wood Elf Ranger (from the pregens list), I took "Part-Time Archaeologist" as a Background.

I then decided that my character was A Dwarf in an Elf's Body.

Then the dwarf in our party decided that they were An Elf in a Dwarf's Body.

Pity we didn't get to try that out in a full campaign.

[Shyftir]

I don't need to spoil anything I just wanted to use the new feature.

Anyway I'm getting my group together to play and my buddy wants to play a halfling paladin who has a bear as an animal companion/mount. Oh yeah his idea for a OUT? He wants to have a Napoleon Complex. Yes a halfling who is sensitive about his height...

[Larkas]

My book has just arrived, and I'm loving what I'm reading so far! This narrative focus is something that was sorely missed in d20 games, and it seems they have struck the perfect balance between roleplaying and rollplaying.

For the record, I haven't been able to come up with a good original OUT so far. I loved one I read the other day: "the only dwarf with a fully mechanical, clockwork heart". There be gold in those hills organs!

[CarpeGuitarrem]

One tactic that worked for me: pick a slightly odd background or two, and use a One Unique Thing to explain why you have that background. Working your way up like that can help inspire you.

[Kiero]

Last and by no means least of my GM's custom classes, a Fighter/Sorceror combo, the Elemental Knight (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?704270-13th-Age-Alternate-Fighter-Mage-Type-Class-The-Elemental-Knight).

[Shyftir]

My warlock concept is coming along but family obligations kind of derailed the project.

I'm trying to figure out how to incorporate invocations without just making them spells. I'm almost thinking a list of (minor) talents that get picked at the appropriate tiers.

[DawnRaven]

My warlock concept is coming along but family obligations kind of derailed the project.

I'm trying to figure out how to incorporate invocations without just making them spells. I'm almost thinking a list of (minor) talents that get picked at the appropriate tiers.

Why not call them spells but make Invocation a special keyword? In the vein of how Sorcerers use Chain and Breath spells, Warlocks could use Invocation spells?

[Shyftir]

that's kind of how I'm handling the eldritch blasts, the basic is an at-will attack but the different essences and shapes are recharge/daily effects.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

You could make them flexible attacks: each one represents a clause of your contract, and can be applied to a basic ranged attack with the correct attack roll.

[fendermallot]

My OUT: Can speak to items made of metal as if they were sentient.

Playing a Dwarf whose clan was the chief architects of the Forgeborn.

Edit: Will be switching characters to a new campaign soon with same group.

Human Monk: Was gifted the long life of the Elves by The Black.

[DungeonDelver]

This system has enough crunch to give me the rules based combat I prefer, with enough fluff to let me make a character I want. Like a fighter who's actually good at things that don't involve putting weapons into enemies.

I've yet to actually play it, but I plan on trying to talk some friends into a game of it. With any luck, it'll work out in my favor.

[DawnRaven]

This system has enough crunch to give me the rules based combat I prefer, with enough fluff to let me make a character I want. Like a fighter who's actually good at things that don't involve putting weapons into enemies.

I've yet to actually play it, but I plan on trying to talk some friends into a game of it. With any luck, it'll work out in my favor.

Good luck, from our PbP game so far I'm enjoying the system. The way backgrounds work and the way combat is so much faster than 4e (my preferred system) which makes it amazing for PbP.

Speaking of, and somewhat random, but there's about to be an opportunity in the PbP for an NPC to join the PC's for a couple of combats. If anyone wants to test the waters of 13th age combat, feel free to check out the recruitment thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16186714#post16186714)

[Garimeth]

Hey guys, first post here.

My group I GM for is totally sold on 13th Age. We love the Icons, we love the OUT, we love the escalation die, and the combat is fast paced. I ran the adventure in the back of the book as a one shot in less than six hours, with us manning a grill while we played.

We have a long going DnD game I run (over a year now) that we converted over to the D&D Next rules to help with the playtest, and after running two one shot 13th Age sessions when our whole group couldn't make a game night, some of my players want to try to convert to 13th Age, and one of them told me he briefly considered causing a party wipe for our current game just so we could play the next campaign (13th Age) sooner, lol.

Anyway the game I am setting them up for is gonna be on roll20, but the gist is that the Orc Lord has been pushing a low grade invasion of the NW portion of the empire for a decade, about 7 years ago the Emperor, as described in the book, got shwacked with his half orc security detail by orcs, and his son took over. His son took over and the Imperials forced a retreat from the Orc Lord's hordes. In the 5 years since then the son has become a tyrant, and with the orcs out of sight and out of mind, thoughts of rebellion are beginning to blossom.

I have a couple of cool plot twists thought out, but still waiting to flesh it out more until I get a feel for all my players' characters.

To the person asking about homebrew. I can't WAIT to get a homebrew going for this. I plan on doing some world building on the side while I run this next game going. I'm thinking about doing something involving a wintery climate similar to the setting in Skyrim. Originally I had planned on my next game being in a high magic desert setting, but now I think something very nature based in a snowy climate might be more fun.

[Garimeth]

My OUT: Can speak to items made of metal as if they were sentient.

Playing a Dwarf whose clan was the chief architects of the Forgeborn.

Edit: Will be switching characters to a new campaign soon with same group.

Human Monk: Was gifted the long life of the Elves by The Black.

Dude, those are both pretty cool. Especially the first one. As a GM I would totally use that as an opportunity for exposition. I may even give each different major metal a certain personality or manner of speaking if the player used it frequently enough. I would only let a mature player have it though, since I could see people abusing it.

[Shyftir]

Yes, I was working on a setting, sort of a fantasy settling of America, and as soon as I got 13th Age, I put it on hiatus until I can figure out how to adapt it.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Icons are the absolutely most awesome way to define a setting, I think. I bet that once you get the Icons right, the rest of the setting should just fall into place.

[Garimeth]

Here is my upcoming setting, using the Dragon Empire in the book, but given my own spin.


15 years ago the Orc Lord began a push south into the Dragon Empire's lands. The attack took the Barbarian tribes in the north by surprise when they swept out of The Frost Range. The Dwarves, Elves, and the Empire allied to stop them near the Northern Colossus, which, during a particularly gruesome day of fighting, suddenly animated and began laying waste to soldiers on both sides of the battle until sunset, and has not moved since.

10 years ago the previous Emperor was assassinated in an ambush by a party of Orcs on a return trip from Forge. He was succeeded by his son, who was a recalled from the battlefield. Rumors began around the Empire that the unit, all half-orcs, sold the Emperor out. The Orcs pushed out as far as Forge, where the Dwarves held them. A large number of the half-orcs in the Empire went out and helped fill the gaps determined to redeem their race from the unfounded prejudices that swept through the Empire. As winter approached the Dwarves settled in for a siege.

The siege was in favor of the Dwarves. On their own mountain, and stocked with provisions and a clear route to Anvil via the Underforge, they weathered the winter much better than the orcs. Come the following spring the allied defenders drove the weakened orc horde back into the Frost Range. The Orcs have driven out the barbarians that dwelled there previously and are massing for another attempt to push against the Empire. The area between the foothills of the Range and Northern Colossus have become the site of numerous border skirmishes between the Empire, including the Dwarves, and the Orcs.

In the 8 years since then the Emperor's son has revealed himself as a tyrant. His rule is orderly and disciplined, and decidedly lawful evil. His empire is overtaxed both financially and in terms of men who were killed in the Orc War, which has also resulted in fewer workers to farm and harvest – leading to a few years of lean harvests. Noble parentage has always granted favorable treatment, but the distance between the classes has expanded in the past 8 years. About 3 years ago rumors began of a growing rebellion against the Emperor. The growing unrest blossomed into a riot in Axis. The Emperor swiftly sent in one of his legions and efficiently and mercilessly put an end to the riot, and setting fire to the rebellion.

With the rebellion growing in popularity the Emperor began arresting people accused of seditious or treasonous actions. Around this time The Rebel appeared. The first public appearance of the Rebel was against a platoon of Legionaries NW of Drakkenhall. The platoon was shaking down a farming village and at one point things got out of hand. According to the popular account a farmer resisted being overtaxed and the Legion responded by burning his farm and killing him and his family. The rest of the town complied and paid up. On their way out of the town a man wearing a red headband and a stip of red cloth tied around his left bicep appeared in the road. He demanded that the money be returned and justice for the farmer who was slain. The Legion laughed. The Rebel drew his sword and gave a shout that kicked up a cloud of dust and knocked down the front ranks of the platoon. When the dust settled the platoon was dead, The Rebel vanished, and the money laying on the ground.

News of the event spread quickly and more and more sightings of The Rebel began to sprout up. The red strip of cloth, tied around weapons, worn on the left bicep, as a headband, or flying as a streamer from windows became a symbol for support for the rebellion. The Emperor cracked down, but as is usually the case, the harder he tried to stamp out the insurgency, the more it thrived. The rebellion gained traction and The Rebel began to lead it into something more than random riots and attacks.

The Empire lays fractured. Old enemies lie forgotten and age old loyalties become stressed, is this the end of the 13th Age, and will the falling of the Dragon Empire herald it?



Icons:


The Archmage:
The Archmage is concerned about the instability that the rebellion represents, but is still unfailing in his support of the Emperor, if not particularly a fan of the current resident of the throne he has lived long enough to see several Dragon Emperors come and go. His concern lies more in preserving the stability he has worked for centuries to create and keeping an eye on the High Druid and Orc Lord.

The Crusader:
His priority remains slaying any of the demons that plague the land and exterminating the Diabolists' cults.

The Diabolist:
In uncertain times people become desperate, desperate people are easier to corrupt. She is having a field day.

The Dwarf King:
The late Emperor and the King were friends throughout most of the Emperor's lifetime. Many look at the current Emperor and see a tyrant. The Dwarf King sees the son of his old friend making poor decisions while desperately trying to hold The Empire together. Of course, even if he did see the Emperor as a tyrant, he is more concerned about the Orcs amassing in the Frost Range anyway.

The Elf Queen:
The elves have received no small amount of suspicion of supporting The Rebel, due in part to the fact that most of the early rebellion sprang from the northern portion of the empire near the Elf Queen's domain, although there is a credible argument that violent excesses from the Three in Drakkenhall may be more to blame. The Elf Queen is being very careful to control her borders and not get involved in the civil unrest of the Empire, but a number of elves have taken it upon themselves to fight alongside The Rebel despite her wishes. It probably doesn't help that The Rebel is a half-elf.

The Emperor:
The Emperor is a cold child grown into a hard man. The civilization that his family has protected for centuries is threatened from within and without. Without the stability that the Empire provides anarchy would reign supreme and there would be nothing to keep the Orc Lord at bay, the Sea Wall manned, and the inner sea tamed. The Emperor will do whatever it takes to preserve this, whether the Empire wants him to or not.

The Great Gold Wyrm:
The Gold Wyrm, along with the Priestess, is in an awkward position. He is not comfortable with the descendants of his dragons being used to quell a rebellion, which thankfully the Emperor has not resorted to, nor is he happy with the current Emperor. That said he is a bit pre-occupied with the Abyss an also has an agreement to help support the Empire. So far he still thinks the best way to support the Empire is to support the Emperor.

The High Druid:
The time is ripe for change, and balances are shifting. In the wake of the instability in the Empire the Wild Woods' borders have expanded and there is talk that the High Druid may be to blame for increasing unrest in the Midland Sea and erratic weather along its coasts.

The Lich King:
When people are concerned about a growing police state and a growing food shortage other things start to be viewed as less important are get forgotten about in the bustle. Some of those things involve maintaining the graveyards, burial rites, and wards that keep his power at arm's length.

The Orc Lord:
Since his defeat after the failed siege of Forge he has been building his army to prepare for another push on the Empire and skirmishing with the Dwarves and Elves. Some scholars speculate that he is probably ready, but is waiting for the Empire to fracture more before he attempts another invasion. Others say that he is looking for a powerful artifact that will tip the scales in his next struggle. Either way, everybody who is paying attention is concerned about the massive increase in the size of his army, and nobody is sure how he is managing it.

The Priestess:
Like the Great Wyrm, she is in an awkward place. She is loyal to the Empire and wants good for its citizens, but it unsure about whether or not that good will come from the Emperor or The Rebel. The guidance she has given her followers is to follow the law and continue to do good. A very NG position.

The Prince of Shadows:
For a time there were those who proposed that The Prince was actually the Rebel. Certainly many of The Rebels followers also have ties to the Prince, and they both have a chaotic bent. But the flashiness and public appearances of The Rebel run in stark contrast to The Prince. Not to mention that he still seems to be up to his old tricks as evidenced by his recent theft of an object of great significance to the Emperor, who has upped the bounty on his head.

The Rebel:
Nobody is sure where this half-elf man came from, but he seems to be part general, part warrior, and part scholar. In less than two years he has taken the coals of a rebellion and nursed it into a roaring fire. He will not tolerate injustice and chaos follows in his footsteps. No one need guess his motives either: The Rebel thinks the Emperor needs to go, and not just the current one – the throne altogether, though there are those who say he just wants to be the one who sits on it.

The Three:
The Green remains trapped firmly by the Elf Queen, but the Blue is hoping that in the confusion of all that is going on it may be able to slip its geas. There also seems to be an inordinate amount of activity from the Black in the northwest...

Curious what you guys think!

[Shyftir]

It's certainly interesting very much a possible start to a "14th Age" as it were.

[Garimeth]

So I am curious what kind of house rules any of you all have added to the rest and full heal up mechanics.

Some ideas I have had are:

Expend a recovery during a long rest for a roll to recover a power - in order to do this they must be someplace they can REALLY rest, with no watchstanding, comfortable, and truly relaxing. So like, an inn or a home. Not a wilderness campsite. This kind of rest also grants a free recovery worth of healing.

Pros: They can recover key abilities before a full heal up, with a sacrifice. Also kind of represents the trope of a caster becoming exhausted with repeated exertion.

Cons: Caster may burn through his store of recoveries entirely too quickly.



3 or more days between conflicts represent a full heal up. Good rest would still give a free healing, but not the power recovery.

Pros: Makes more sense practically. Makes recoveries even.

Cons: Realistically, 3 days of a a forced march, standing firewatch, and sleeping on the ground is NOT restful.




Thoughts? I don't like the idea that the only way you get aa daily power back is from a full heal-up after is 3-4 encounters, but want it to be codified for my players and try to avoid the 5MWD while keeping the feel of pressing on.

[DawnRaven]

Just like to post up here two things!
1) The Official SRD (http://www.pelgranepress.com/?p=13316) for 13th age is now out

And 2) I'm currently recruiting for my second (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=310608)13th age game here on GITP

[Garimeth]

Just like to post up here two things!
1) The Official SRD (http://www.pelgranepress.com/?p=13316) for 13th age is now out

And 2) I'm currently recruiting for my second (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=310608)13th age game here on GITP

Been following your PbP games while at work. Theron and Duvan gave me ideas for some recurring NPCs in my own upcoming 13th Age game, as did Falgrim's betrayal!

Not sure I could stand the slow pace of PbP games though myself, but I bet its great for people that have a hard time getting together or finding the time IRL.

[DawnRaven]

With how often my IRL group gets together (playing in a friend's Pathfinder game), we actually progress faster in the PbP! Then again, since we all have jobs and one of us (me :D) has a wife, we only get together every 3 weeks or so.

[Garimeth]

Yeah I got pretty lucky, I have a pretty consistent group that usually gets in 4-5 hours a week. We are all military though, so when we aren't in the field we get alot of long weekends.

13th Age related -
I'm surprised at how few people have commented on it here. Have any of you participated in any of the organized play? I'm usually more of a homebrew with a group of friends guy.

[Shyftir]

Ran my first session of IRL 13 age last night. It was a lot of fun. We're doing the starter adventure in the back and have a nice colorful group of adventurers. It's the most fun I've ever had GMing.

[DawnRaven]

Ran my first session of IRL 13 age last night. It was a lot of fun. We're doing the starter adventure in the back and have a nice colorful group of adventurers. It's the most fun I've ever had GMing.

Is that the one with the dragon? What were your players running?

[Garimeth]

Ran my first session of IRL 13 age last night. It was a lot of fun. We're doing the starter adventure in the back and have a nice colorful group of adventurers. It's the most fun I've ever had GMing.

Nice! We did a 3 man group with a dwarven rogue, a half-orc tank fighter, and a half-elf sorceror. They almost got TPK'ed by the dragon when I got a crit with its breath weapon in the opening round. We had forgotten about the option to "rally" and they were still level one.

As a GM I really love that you don't need a cleric, and how much PC input into the game is built into the system.

[Shyftir]

My group consists of:
Dark Elf fighter (fanatically loyal to the Elf Queen, and Champion athlete.)
Human Rogue (street thief, turned assassin, now on the run after surviving a suicide mission)
Wood Elf Sorceror (Outcast from the elven peoples for burning down a live tree, also he can smell fear)
Halfling Paladin (small even for a halfling! has an animal companion a huge bear!)

So yeah two perfectly normal characters (but cool) and two out there characters. The sorcerer is slightly crazy. The Rogue is a selfish git. The paladin is at best weird. And the dark elf is being the Roy Greenhilt and keeping all these crazies aimed at the goal.

I'm loving it.

[Kiero]

Our upcoming 13A game is not set in the Dragon Empire of the book, but a homebrew setting called Acrozatarim (wiki under construction (http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/Acrozatarim)). That means new Icons (http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/Acrozatarim/Icons), sixteen in total and not necessarily bearing much relation to the default ones.

The game is a couple of months off (I've got a newborn-hiatus coming any day now, and we're going to finish off our 4E game when we return with the third and final part of Icewind Dale) and I haven't really bothered much with mechanical thinking yet, beyond choosing a class I like. That being the Elemental Knight (http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/Acrozatarim/Elemental_Knight), a martial arts-oriented Fighter-Sorceror, because how could I not take the opportunity to play a martial artist who doesn't suck? The other PCs so far are a human Vanguard, a water genasi Thaumineer (a Wizard hack creating a techno-mage) and an aasimar Bard, with one more PC to come.

I've been struggling to come up with a decent OUT, one that both works and highlights something I'm interested in exploring in the game. Then inspiration came partly by way of Kung Fu Panda: Legends of Awesomeness (my daughter's favourite cartoon of the moment). This is a setting with wuxia inspired elements already (see the initial pitch (http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/Acrozatarim/Pitch)) and I leapt at the chance to epitomise those with my own PC.

My character is Naserian (see nations summary (http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/Acrozatarim/Nations_and_Peoples)), from a nation ruled by a sorceror-aristocracy where sorcerous talent is much more common than other places. The elemental knights represent an order of warrior-mages using elemental magic, which sorcerous talents can be bent towards. There are other ways to learn elemental mastery (meditation, fasting, exercise and so on), but in a nation with so many sorcerors, alternative methods are rare. Really rare, as in less than a half-dozen people alive in Naseria learned that way (it's more common in other nations). My character is not a sorceror and not from the aristocracy either - he was an apprentice and son of a smith from a long line of smiths. But he had a dream to leave his humdrum, mundane life and the cloying social obligations of his family behind and live a life of adventure as an elemental knight (who are an organ of the state similar to the Ottoman janissaries in Naseria - minus the slavery). Problem he has, of course, is that he's not a sorceror and there's no one who can teach him the other methods.

When it struck me: ghostly mentor. A long-dead elemental master from the Dawn War a couple of centuries ago. As a result of some trauma or hardship - perhaps having been badly beaten in training, or exposure and starvation outside the mountain fastness where his order trains - he first saw the ghost. Who imparted the secrets of elemental magic without prior sorcerous talents. Now it's an open question whether this entity is actually a ghost, and what it's agenda is. That's all for discovery in-game, but I can't imagine there's anything remotely altruistic about a dead kung fu master taking on a living student. I think it's an entity no one else can see, but perhaps there's some sort of subtle magical bond that someone who knows what they're looking for might detect. That allows the ghost to always know where he is an manifest at will (it isn't following him around all the time, it turns up when it feels like it).

I'm also considering a twisted link with one of his Icon relationships. In his recent past, he was sent on a mission for the Truthseeker, to recover some ancient lore in lands held by the Carthagians (Naseria's long-time enemy on its border). He showed his loyalty by not only delivering said lore, but not even looking at it. His mentor wanted whatever that lore was for himself, and when my PC refused to break his word, that enraged the spirit. Again, I don't know what was in that scroll, more GM license for drama.

How's that sound?

[Shyftir]

Wow, that's pretty developed. I like it a lot. I generally tend to build OUT's that are unexplained so that we can explain them via the game, but there is nothing wrong with your method.

[DawnRaven]

That is a pretty wicked OUT and should give the DM a lot to play with.

[Kiero]

Wow, that's pretty developed. I like it a lot. I generally tend to build OUT's that are unexplained so that we can explain them via the game, but there is nothing wrong with your method.


That is a pretty wicked OUT and should give the DM a lot to play with.

It's developed insofar as there's detail to it, but there's a lot that's unanswered as well. Is this entity really a ghost (is it even there at all?)? Is it really the ghost of who it claims to be? What is its agenda (why did it teach this guy, and why is it sticking around after?)?

[Shyftir]

By the way I listened to "Tyche's Favorites" recently while driving on a trip. I enjoyed it quite a bit. One random question: what's up with the seagull noises?


back to the topic at hand:

Right no I like your OUT a lot, I was more commenting that my personal style was less developed not criticizing yours.

I kind of have to lead my players around by the nose on some of the more story related aspects of the game.

[Kiero]

By the way I listened to "Tyche's Favorites" recently while driving on a trip. I enjoyed it quite a bit. One random question: what's up with the seagull noises?

We play with the back door open (a necessity for ventilation), and Bristol is a port city. The Levelator program the sound files are run through to bring up the volume of the speech unfortunately also amplifies the seagulls. :smallredface:


back to the topic at hand:

Right no I like your OUT a lot, I was more commenting that my personal style was less developed not criticizing yours.

I kind of have to lead my players around by the nose on some of the more story related aspects of the game.

No worries, we're quite familiar with providing this sort of thing as a group, so it's almost automatic that we generate things that the GM can easily work with.

[Garimeth]

@Shytir and Dawnraven:
Been lurking in your guys game...I think you are using the recoveries wrong? The section describing the recoveries sounds as though EACH recovery is (LVLdHD+Con) So for each recovery if you guys are level two you'd be rolling two dice. I may be missing something, but thought I would point that out.

Kiero: your OUT is awesome. I wish my guys would think up stuff like that. I would totally have the mentor guy use you to cause his resurrection, or posession into someone else, and then make him the BBEG!

[DawnRaven]

@Shytir and Dawnraven:
Been lurking in your guys game...I think you are using the recoveries wrong? The section describing the recoveries sounds as though EACH recovery is (LVLdHD+Con) So for each recovery if you guys are level two you'd be rolling two dice. I may be missing something, but thought I would point that out.

They're not level two yet :smalltongue: Don't get their hopes up, it'll be awhile.

[Garimeth]

They're not level two yet :smalltongue: Don't get their hopes up, it'll be awhile.

Oops! Saw a post where Theron said "level 2 done and done" and thought they had levelled up!

Enjoying following your game.

[Kiero]

Kiero: your OUT is awesome. I wish my guys would think up stuff like that. I would totally have the mentor guy use you to cause his resurrection, or posession into someone else, and then make him the BBEG!

Thanks. The GM has said in broad strokes, he can work with that. Some specifics that might need tweaking, but it's in the right ballpark, which is what I was going for.

[Garimeth]

So I am curious still about the rest options. Does anybody else have any experience with it? My players don't really like the idea of the "day" being a full heal-up (4 battles) but I love the idea of rewarding them for pressing on, and the feel that a chase (think WoT Eye of the World when Rand and Mat are on the run) could have with these options. I'm trying to find a good balance.

[DawnRaven]

It's felt fluid in my game so far. They had te for extended rests between most combats although may be about to hit their third in a row without resting at all. I see full heal ups as something that needs more than a regular night of sleep. When the pcs hit the explore phase of kingmaker they won't get full rests unless they spend a night of more at certain "safe" locations. Simply sleeping in the wilderness won't be sufficient. We'll see how this plays out. Maybe encouraging more than the 4 battle day/heal up.

[Kiero]

And finally, the last PC-relevant new class option for our game: the Thaumineer (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?707135-13th-Age-Wizard-Class-Variant-The-Thaumineer). It's a modification to the Wizard to create a techno-mage.

[Garimeth]

See for HP I definitely like that, but for daily powers I think I want an in-between. Or maybe I just need to homebrew more encounter powers.

[DawnRaven]

See for HP I definitely like that, but for daily powers I think I want an in-between. Or maybe I just need to homebrew more encounter powers.

True, icon relationship rolls are good for that as well.

[Garimeth]

True, icon relationship rolls are good for that as well.

Not sure I understand. Could you explain? Full disclaimer is I have only DMed 3 sessions of this so far and am still not good at using the icon rolls.

[Garimeth]

Also, curious how you all handle "Ritual Magic".

I feel like I want non-casters to have some small access to magic via rituals, and also for casters to be able to make up spells via rituals. This is how I am utilizing it probably. Interested in some outside opinions.

Having spellcasting capability is referred to as Talent, a no-talent is a term spellcasters use to refer to their mundane peers. Talent does not refer to ritual casting, which can be done by anyone with the knowledge. Clerics, unlike other games, do not receive their magic from their deities. Instead they have Talent and dedicate themselves to their deity. No Talents can ritual cast any 1st Level spell, but no higher. Many types of magic are illegal within city limits including, but not limited to: enchantments, destructive magics, anything that tampers with the thought processes or perceptions of others. Additionally, in Glitterhaegen and Axis citizens and travelers are required to get a permit to use magic at all, and must carry it with them at all times. Mages may duel each other only in pre-approved locations. Any class may take the ritual casting feat, but non-casters must make a caster check to cast any ritual higher than 1st level and may never cast a ritual higher than their current level. (1d20+Relevant background + casting modifier) DC: determined by tier. A fumble results in Bad Stuff.

[DawnRaven]

I haven't had ritual magic come up, but I've seen some good homebrew ideas for it on a 13th age blog awhile back..not sure where it was though.

I was referring to the Icon rolls. I usually have the players roll them prior to each "session" and then use them for various things. For example, in the current game I've used them to add a third way into a dungeon (luckily with PbP you can spend a few hours making up things like that), add an NPC player for a single combat and finally, provide free healing/recoveries.

I could forsee using 5's or 6's to allow players to recover a daily power outside of the long rest. Story-wise, it would depend on the Icon. For example, we're using the Winter Queen as one in our game. One of the Winter Court Fey could use its magic to recover one of the arcane casters daily powers as a favor. The favor could either be free (6) or come with a price (5).

[Kiero]

Something that ACKS reintroduced me to (though we never made use of when we played older editions of D&D) was the value of henchmen. When the PCs aren't just a bunch of wandering nobodies, but people of substance, they should have retinues. They can also make a nice buffer against tougher fights, provide opportunities for proper group tactics, and act as backup PCs should anything happen to the main cast. Plus they're fun to interact with.

However, 13A has a similar approach to 4th edition with regards to friendly NPCs, they're mostly de-emphasised barring animal companions and familiars. Indeed when playing 4e there's no real way to provide "simpler" characters who could be used as henchmen, and making them with the proper PC rules would be a major ballache. One PC is more than enough to keep track of without having to do that several times over. The idea would be that the player runs the henchmen, rather than giving the poor GM even more to do.

Do the existing companion/familiar rules provide a template for simpler characters that might work for henchmen? I'm thinking characters who would be little more that a level, some attack values (with basic attacks only) and defenses and maybe a few points of Backgrounds. Maybe an apprentice wizard might have access to an at-will spell or two. No Feats or Talents or per-battle or daily powers anything clever like that, no resources that need to be tracked etc.

Has anyone already done this?

[DawnRaven]

In 4e, I always used the monster rules for anything that wasn't a PC. Even PC-controlled NPCs. I've done the exact same in 13th Age. A handful of the NPC's have battle stats, but are all done up as monsters.

[Shyftir]

The animal companion system could be used as a template for the retinue idea. (Another part of your game I found very interesting!)

One of my players in my IRL game has an oddly broken(maybe just very good?) combo. I let him play a paladin of an order dedicated to keeping civilization and nature in balance. He has an animal companion fully stated up like the ranger talent, for which I made him trade two talents and his access to the alignment based talent options. Then he used his one remaining talent on the "divine domain" option and picked up War. He picked the feat that lets an animal companion get the escalation die. This lets him pump the escalation die, then attack, giving both his (bear) companion and the entire party a +2 to hit in the first round on his target.

[Kiero]

In 4e, I always used the monster rules for anything that wasn't a PC. Even PC-controlled NPCs. I've done the exact same in 13th Age. A handful of the NPC's have battle stats, but are all done up as monsters.

I just had a look at monsters in the SRD and you're right. There's a template right there which would work. Hirelings could use the most basic, simple one without any added bit (ie just a collection of stats), henchmen might get a Talent, an at-will and so on.


The animal companion system could be used as a template for the retinue idea. (Another part of your game I found very interesting!)

One of my players in my IRL game has an oddly broken(maybe just very good?) combo. I let him play a paladin of an order dedicated to keeping civilization and nature in balance. He has an animal companion fully stated up like the ranger talent, for which I made him trade two talents and his access to the alignment based talent options. Then he used his one remaining talent on the "divine domain" option and picked up War. He picked the feat that lets an animal companion get the escalation die. This lets him pump the escalation die, then attack, giving both his (bear) companion and the entire party a +2 to hit in the first round on his target.

Indeed, between that an monsters, I think there are all the elements needed.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Another funky idea for hirelings: represent a hireling as an extra Background. Then, whenever they're assisting in a task, you can use them as your Background. The plus side being that if something bad happens to them, you can decrease or remove the Background instead of having it backlash against you.

You'd just have to determine how much to decrease a Background in order to mitigate failure. But, basically, that represents the hireling being less willing and/or able to work for you.

[Kiero]

Another funky idea for hirelings: represent a hireling as an extra Background. Then, whenever they're assisting in a task, you can use them as your Background. The plus side being that if something bad happens to them, you can decrease or remove the Background instead of having it backlash against you.

You'd just have to determine how much to decrease a Background in order to mitigate failure. But, basically, that represents the hireling being less willing and/or able to work for you.

That sounds more like a contact or someone similarly at arms length, rather than a hireling.

[Garimeth]

I would think just treat the companion exactly like an animal companion, but give them a background also. Personally I usually make any long term PCs the party wants to tag along with them as normal charcaters one level lower than they are. I realize that isn't quite the same thing, but that's how we tend to do it.

If a player wanted a no crap henchman then I would just use the animal companion STATS and feats, make them use weapons as normal, and have them level up behind the player like the companion.

But then what about recoveries? Does the henchie have his own or share like the animal companion?

Seems easier just to build a complete character and either NPC it yourself or let the player play two characters if it is a henchman. For hirelings I would treat it as a monster as mentioned above. Just me.

I think part of this boils down to what makes the heroes special compared to others in the world. I actually have been thinking on this the past two days.

I decided that a "blademaster" (think wielder of a heron mark blade in WoT) would be 5th level, the level of the HO tribal champion. This means the average citizen is probably 1st or 2nd level, with specialists rising higher, and next to nobody being above champion tier (in the normal day occurences). Additionally non-PCs will only be capable of recoveries equal to there level. Meaning a level 1 monster or NPC only has one recovery. This means PCs are more resilient and harder to kill. Obviously they also have their OUT.

Obviously I'm not telling the players any of this, its just something I did to decide the relative strength of the population.

[Garimeth]

So I was wondering what you guys thought about the individual classes in 13th Age. I figured I'd weigh in on them as well.

Barbarian: Don't like it. Too low of HP and not enough rage imo. I bumped up the HP base to 9 and lowered the recharge to 11+.

Bard: Love it, and totally can imagine somebody retooling it to make a "warlord" esque character. (Which I think is the basis for the "commander", in the 13 True Ways playtest.) I like the combination of "maybe I can do this" flex attacks and on demand stuff with spell slots.

Cleric: Cleric is cool, and it has the potential to deal over 1,000 damage in a single attack. Next to impossible to line up but the potential is there....not sure how I feel about that.

Fighter: Fighter is awesome. Tough as Iron is a beast ability, so are several of the flex attacks. Wish they had made more flex attacks, but maybe they will release more come 13TW. A ranged fighter can be pretty boss.

Ranger: I dig the approach to using more talents, and also like most of them. I wish favored enemy were a little more interesting, but overall I really like ranger.

Rogue: Awesome class. Love momentum, love the moves, love swashbuckle. I would play this, a fighter, or a bard if I wasn't DMing.

Sorceror: Our level 1 sorceror did 52 damage on a non-crit with lightning fork the other night. Invocation of strength had been used, if he had crit he would have done 204 damage. At level 1. But they did a good job with the class, and it feels chaotic enough without being too swingy (excepting the above example, but really IoS makes everything swingy.)

Wizard: I can't comment on wizard, nobody has ran one yet. It looks cool, but being a prior 3.5 fanboy i wish there were more utility spells.

So what's your take?

[DawnRaven]

I haven't seen a barbarian in play so can't comment. I do think they need more rage though.

Paladin works well at low levels but the fact Smite doesn't scale in uses or damage as you level up is worrying. Its not very useful if it doesn't scale. Considering allowing it to be affected like weapon damage.

Fighters, rogues and bards are impressive. They seem to have enough abilities to be fun.

I think ranger is a tad boring, it doesn't get a lot of flashy abilities like the other classes but I suppose that's its design slot.

Sorcerers are fun, and do feel swingy. I am not a fan of evocation wizards though as it feels they easily equal the damage a sorc puts out while keeping their utility spells. I've seen them in play once and he repeatedly 1 shot or nearly 1 shot most of the level 1 large size mobs they came across.

[Garimeth]

Wow, I totally skipped the paladin.

I agree, the lack of scaling is something that could be a problem, though I do like most of their talents.

Ranger is definitely...boring, compared to the other classes, but like you said I think its there for the people who want a basic class, plus tbh with a home made power or two at higher level I think you can swap some fighter talents and make a fighter be a "ranger".

[Kiero]

The classes are one of the major flaws in 13A for me, because I disagree with a lot of the underlying philosophies. The whole "martial=simple, magical=complex" split is just silly. And I really dislike dice tricks determining what you can do - I'm looking at "flexible attacks" here.

Fortunately, it's really easy to make up your own classes, which is what our GM did for our upcoming game. I don't think it's a surprise that out of five PCs, three of us have chosen custom classes.

Of the existing, I don't mind the Ranger, it's pretty close to what I like to do with one anyway. Really dislike the Fighter, which is a shame because in 4e it's a class I love.

[DawnRaven]

I don't really think there's a split between martial = complex at all. The flexible attacks from fighter or the powers of the rogue aren't less simple than say the bard or cleric's stuff.

The sorcerer with chain and breath spells is somewhat complex as is the wizard with the utility spell ability though. I'm hoping the next round of classes come out with more complex martial classes and concepts. The Monk seems pretty complex from the playtest.

[AvianMalkavian]

Having played the Barbarian, I'm fairly confident that it doesn't require any boosting and/or nerfing. Our GM ran through several encounters and my Half-Orc Barbarian was laying waste to everything in sight. Doing 2d12 with a Greataxe, I crit and wiped out an entire mob of mooks before they even got a turn before killing the boss monster nearly single-handedly. Believe me, the Barbarian is plenty awesome at what it does already.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

And I really dislike dice tricks determining what you can do - I'm looking at "flexible attacks" here.
If it helps, think of it as this: the battlefield and the combat is a bit chaotic, and you're never going to have the opportunity to do whatever you want. It's not as though your opponent is standing around like a punching bag, waiting for you to unleash your abilities. :smallwink:

Flexible attacks mean that when you make an attack roll, you see the opportunities available to you, and you pick one of those opportunities.

[Kiero]

If it helps, think of it as this: the battlefield and the combat is a bit chaotic, and you're never going to have the opportunity to do whatever you want. It's not as though your opponent is standing around like a punching bag, waiting for you to unleash your abilities. :smallwink:

Flexible attacks mean that when you make an attack roll, you see the opportunities available to you, and you pick one of those opportunities.

It doesn't help, it's a design choice that simply doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. I choose what my character does, I don't have the particular roll determine what options are available to me. As written, the Fighter is of no use to me.

[Shyftir]

Weird. I love flexible attacks. Where an ability that gives you bonus AC, must be balanced against other attacks (usually by dealing less damage) in a game like 4e. A flexible attack doesn't need to be directly balanced in the same way.

The Defensive Fighting flexible also helps make a sword and board fighter not just viable but actually good! I really enjoy the flexible attacks. Keeps the fight from just being. "I use this. roll. I use this (the same thing). Roll. (repeat)"

[Kiero]

Weird. I love flexible attacks. Where an ability that gives you bonus AC, must be balanced against other attacks (usually by dealing less damage) in a game like 4e. A flexible attack doesn't need to be directly balanced in the same way.

The Defensive Fighting flexible also helps make a sword and board fighter not just viable but actually good! I really enjoy the flexible attacks. Keeps the fight from just being. "I use this. roll. I use this (the same thing). Roll. (repeat)"

When I played a Fighter in 4e, I most definitely did not use the same thing over and again. There are better ways of preventing people spamming the same attack/combo repeatedly than removing your choice of maneuver.

Funny that flexible attacks weren't applied to any magical class in their usage of spells.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I think that's mainly because flex attacks aren't for casters. :smallsmile: Design decision, again. Fighters are the opportunists (flexible attacks), while casters use rote knowledge.

[DawnRaven]

Flexible attacks for a sorcerer-type would be a lot of fun..

[Kiero]

I think that's mainly because flex attacks aren't for casters. :smallsmile: Design decision, again. Fighters are the opportunists (flexible attacks), while casters use rote knowledge.

That's precisely my point, though. Yes, it's a design decision. But it's one I disagree with.

Our GM came up with an alternative Fighter class that's all-choice, all the time. It also has some potential Warlord flavour to it, if you take the right powers and Talents. It's cool, and I'd play that in a heartbeat, had I not already chosen something for our upcoming game (and one of the other players has snapped it up).

[Shyftir]

Actually, the sorcerer has a lot of chaos involved: Whether or not the lightning chains, which effect goes off because of Gather Power, etc. I actually feel that bits of chaos are all over this game.

I think that the random elements give combat a very exciting aspect that is more interesting than being in complete control, but diff'rent strokes for different folks.

[Kiero]

Actually, the sorcerer has a lot of chaos involved: Whether or not the lightning chains, which effect goes off because of Gather Power, etc. I actually feel that bits of chaos are all over this game.

I think that the random elements give combat a very exciting aspect that is more interesting than being in complete control, but diff'rent strokes for different folks.

The randomness fetish is one of the elements of 13A that really annoys me. Random Recoveries is stupid (though thankfully optional); random chargen has no place in a game that is so dependent on virtually every attribute, not just a few; the Recharge mechanic was annoying when monsters in 4e used it and I don't see it adding anything that making things either once per battle or once per day did.

[Garimeth]

I like flexible attacks personally. And yeah the sorc is definitely the "flexible attack" caster. I even like the flexible attacks on bard. Also I wouldn't say that rogue is necessarily simple compared to casters. I actually like the classes in this game, but do wish there was more "general" feats to customize your character outside of class options.

@Kiero, why do you prefer ranger since you dislike the split you refer to? Ranger is the simplest class! :smallbiggrin:

[DawnRaven]

Hopefully the new book will add some more options via feats, talents and powers to all of the classes. Or, if not that, at least provide new ways of doing things with the new classes.

Has anyone gotten the new Bestiary? If you have, and haven't read all of it, go look at the Redcaps.

I've found my new favorite monster!

[Shyftir]

I'm waiting on the bestiary until it exists in dead-tree format. Then purchasing from my FLGS. Sigh. I want it NOW!

[Kiero]

Talking of monsters, our GM has come up with a host of Mephits (http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/Acrozatarim/Mephits).


@Kiero, why do you prefer ranger since you dislike the split you refer to? Ranger is the simplest class! :smallbiggrin:

The Ranger is my favourite class in anything D&D-like, and I don't mind simple in and of itself (I'm playing a Scout in 4e right now). What I don't like is having no option to play a martial class that's more complicated (because I generally play only martial). I don't like the 13A Fighter, when I love the 4e Fighter.

I don't think I'm alone in disliking the default classes, either, in my group three out of four players so far have opted for homebrew classes rather than those in the book (I went with the Elemental Knight (http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/Acrozatarim/Elemental_Knight)).

[DawnRaven]

So it looks like the necromancer is going to be more of a multi-class only (https://www.pelgranepress.com/?tag=13th-age-2) sort of thing. This makes me think multiclassing will be a pretty interesting system in 13th Age. Unlike a lot of people, I was a huge fan of hybrid-classing in 4e.

They also announced adventures for the system! Hopefully they have the same quality that I've come to enjoy with Paizo's stuff.

[Kiero]

We have our group-gen session for this long-awaited game next week. We all pretty much know what classes we want to play, and have a basic handle on concepts, but it all needs to be fitted together. Plus we need a starting premise, we don't really know what the party is yet.

[Kiero]

Our game is underway, our wiki (http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/Acrozatarim) has the PCs and scads of setting information.

Does 13A not bother with morale, like 3.x and 4e before did? I wonder how easy it would be to port in something, perhaps that from ACKS so that combats don't go to the death or til the GM decides someone has had enough.

[DawnRaven]

Like earlier editions of D&D, morale is covered-ish under hit points. If an enemy goes down from damage on a miss or from certain spells/abilities, it would make sense for them to simply surrender as opposed to die at 0 hit points.

So if you want something more concrete than DM-fiat, you'll have to look into adding a system in place.

[Kiero]

Like earlier editions of D&D, morale is covered-ish under hit points. If an enemy goes down from damage on a miss or from certain spells/abilities, it would make sense for them to simply surrender as opposed to die at 0 hit points.

So if you want something more concrete than DM-fiat, you'll have to look into adding a system in place.

Depends what you mean by "earlier"; everything from AD&D2e back has a morale stat and checks that are made under a range of circumstances. It's just 3.x and 4e that dropped it entirely.

Hit points are not a measure of morale, and they make a poor one since it implies everything fights to the death/incapacity.

[DawnRaven]

Well, at least in 4e they were. That's how warlord's were able to heal, its what a lot of bard/warlord temporary hit points were flavored as, etc.

More importantly, from the 13th age core book: "Hit points measure more than your physical capacity to suffer wounds; they also represent intangibles like your will to fight." (Page 311)

So, as I said, it sort of has a morale thing baked in, but if that's not a good enough indicator for you and DM-fiat on surrendering isn't your preference, you'll have to add rules to it. 13th Age is fairly (compared to say, 3.5 D&D) rules-light both inside and outside of combat.

[Kiero]

We're four sessions into Acrozatarim (http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/Acrozatarim), our 13th Age game with entirely custom setting, and it's been fun so far. I'm liking how the characters and world are shaping up, and we've got an interesting first outing for the characters working for one of the Icons. All that side of things is cool, the exploration, the weirdness, the characterisations.

I'm not enjoying playing a 1st level character in combat. I understand the reasons we're doing it, and have accommodated that, but I can't wait to get to 2nd level and leave the dummy step. The fragility of 1st level characters is really being driven home. We've had three combats so far and the Vanguard has been dropped, making death saves, in two of those. The last fight ended with almost everyone battered and low on Recoveries, we still have one more fight to go before we can get a proper refresh. Anyone who says characters in 13A are too tough and can't really die obviously hasn't played it, or failed their reading comprehension on how Rallies work.

I should be clear I don't blame the GM for this state of affairs, he's trying to get a gauge on what we can do, what is an "easy" and "hard" fight, and we've gotten into each for valid reasons knowing the risks. Hell, we've already avoided one major battle with another party looking for the same things as us through negotiation, and have found a way to allow them to get what they want in spite of the NPC concerned basically giving them the finger.

But fundamentally, I don't like the craven, hesitant way you have to play when you're 1st level. We'll need to finish this story arc before we level up, I'd guess there's still 2-3 sessions before that happens, so I'll just have to hang on a little bit longer.

[DawnRaven]

I haven't experienced the same thing with combats. Even when making fights that include Level 2 or, sometimes, level 3 enemies hasn't ended with more than a few really difficult fights. The difficult fights were ones where there was nothing but level 2 and level 4 monsters against a part of level 1's.

Did you get really unlucky in some of those? I've seen most fights start off in favour of the enemy but by round 3, it turns the other way.

[Kiero]

I haven't experienced the same thing with combats. Even when making fights that include Level 2 or, sometimes, level 3 enemies hasn't ended with more than a few really difficult fights. The difficult fights were ones where there was nothing but level 2 and level 4 monsters against a part of level 1's.

Did you get really unlucky in some of those? I've seen most fights start off in favour of the enemy but by round 3, it turns the other way.

We've had some spectacularly bad luck, especially the Vanguard's player, who in the first two combats didn't roll higher than 8 to hit. Not even in round 4 was he managing to hit, and the most recent one he started off that way too.

[Garimeth]

Hey guys, been a while, moved from OC to DC.

I still play with my Cali group over Roll20, but now we only get to play about once every 3 weeks.

My players have had some tough times at level 1 also, and are definitely ready to level up - but in much the same way I am trying to have them finish this story arc first, which due to our play schedule is taking longer than I expected.

[Garimeth]

I haven't experienced the same thing with combats. Even when making fights that include Level 2 or, sometimes, level 3 enemies hasn't ended with more than a few really difficult fights. The difficult fights were ones where there was nothing but level 2 and level 4 monsters against a part of level 1's.

Did you get really unlucky in some of those? I've seen most fights start off in favour of the enemy but by round 3, it turns the other way.

I just got done catching up with your PbP game Kingmaker on here, and actual am really impressed. Are you making the mobs yourself? Also, if so would you be willing to share them?

[RayneSummers]

Hi guys,
Just a quick question, where would I go to propose a home brew class idea or get some help in creating it myself while ensuring it is balanced?

[S.R.Suied]

Hi guys,
Just a quick question, where would I go to propose a home brew class idea or get some help in creating it myself while ensuring it is balanced?

Pelgrane Press forums, but they're pretty dead. Here probably works as well

[Garimeth]

Hi guys,
Just a quick question, where would I go to propose a home brew class idea or get some help in creating it myself while ensuring it is balanced?

There is a pretty good Google+ community page. Not sure how active it is, but there is alot of homebrew on it. You can always post it here too, it'd be nice to get more activity on 13th Age stuff here.

[Garimeth]

Awfully quiet in here. Who all is still running this?

[Drakefall]

I'd absolutely love to play this system. It's pretty much the closest thing to the holy grail of d&d-esque fantasy rpgs that I've ever seen and looks a blast to play.

Unfortunately I'm currently living a fair bit of distance away form all the tabletop gamers I know so I'm stuck without any gaming at all, let alone having the ability to choose a system to play.:smallfrown:

But, I've totally read this thread if that makes you feel any better.:smalltongue:

[Garimeth]

Yeah my group had to switch to roll20 when I moved. Have you considered that?

I freaking love this system. Can't wait for the expansion.

I did houserule some stuff for ritual casting and healing though. My house rule for healing is that if they get a good night's rest (I.E. in an inn or someplace safe and comfortable) then they can get a free recovery roll and roll a 16+ recharge roll for one daily power of their choosing. Also I let my casters freely cast minor or cantrip like effects without consuming a resource as well as some minor utility effects.

I'm really curious to see if anybody else has houseruled stuff, but looks like when I was gone the thread was active and now that I'm back its dead lol.

[Loki_42]

I've got a game of this starting up tomorrow, set in Meiji restoration era Japan. It's gonna have rotating gms and a total of five players. We've got three One Unique things already announced, and they're pretty great:

I am half-demon.

I am an Immortal ronin seeking an honorable death.

I am Joseph Smith.

This is probably going to be great.

[Garimeth]

The immortal Ronin seeking an honorable death is AWESOME.

Gives me an idea for an NPC in my game I am running...

Sidenote, the paladin's smite evil ability is pretty strong. Our new paladin (level 2) one shotted two level one bandits in the same fight, without getting a crit.

[Garimeth]

I've got a game of this starting up tomorrow, set in Meiji restoration era Japan. It's gonna have rotating gms and a total of five players. We've got three One Unique things already announced, and they're pretty great:

I am half-demon.

I am an Immortal ronin seeking an honorable death.

I am Joseph Smith.

This is probably going to be great.

What claseess/races?

[Garimeth]

So we did a big battle last night and my game, and the way I resolved their movement through hostile territory was through mook mass battle. I'd basically roll one attack roll against the whole party, and they would take damage if it hit. Then they would take their individual turns and for every 10 mooks they dropped they moved one "unit" of distance on my map.

Seemed to work out pretty well. Periodically we would actually play out important fights, like when they took out some siege weapons or important enemies.

Mostly, I am just bumping this thread.

[Telwar]

How integral are the Icons to the game?

It seems to me that they're basically deity-replacements (mostly with names/serial numbers filed off, like Vecn...er, the Lich King). If you remove them, what happens?

[Morty]

I looked through some of the system, and it certainly doesn't look half bad as far as d20 iterations go. But dammit, would it have killed them to let fighters use dexterity instead of strength for fighting? It's a minor thing, to be sure, but one that's a pet peeve of mine.

[Garimeth]

How integral are the Icons to the game?

It seems to me that they're basically deity-replacements (mostly with names/serial numbers filed off, like Vecn...er, the Lich King). If you remove them, what happens?

That's certainly one way to look at them. In my campaign I made up a religion system, calendar, holidays, and political system for the Empire. The Icons essentially fution as factions. They serve mostly as a character creation tool to tie the players into the world in a way they get to choose, but i'v had them come up in game too. Two sessions ago a guy fell into an icy river near hammer falls and couldn't get out, he has a conflicted relationship with the high druid. I told him to roll his relationship, he got a 5. So I had a werebear who is allied with the high druid pull him out and save him, and left the party indicating that he "owes" the high druid.

If you don't want to use them how they are presented then just choose important factional NPCs in your setting and make them the icons.

[Garimeth]

I looked through some of the system, and it certainly doesn't look half bad as far as d20 iterations go. But dammit, would it have killed them to let fighters use dexterity instead of strength for fighting? It's a minor thing, to be sure, but one that's a pet peeve of mine.

Don't have the book in front of me, but don't they get to pick? If not its an easy houserule. I'm interested in seeing how they implement the new classes in 13 True Ways.

[Morty]

No, their melee attack always comes from strength, and their attribute bonus is either strength or constitution.

[Kiero]

How integral are the Icons to the game?

It seems to me that they're basically deity-replacements (mostly with names/serial numbers filed off, like Vecn...er, the Lich King). If you remove them, what happens?

They're only as integral as you want to make them. If you drop them the impact is minimal; there are a handful of powers which are no longer relevant (so just don't pick them!).

[Sagitta]

I'm enjoying 13th Age greatly. Our campaign is set in a Harryhausenesque Ancient Greece, where I'm shamelessly hamming it up as a primitive and bellicose Amazon.


The fragility of 1st level characters is really being driven home...
I've been finding second level more dangerous than first. You only have 25% more hit points, but you get hit harder and more often. Sure, your recoveries are stronger, but you have limited opportunities to use those, especially on the enemy's turn.

For example, our first serious 2nd-level battle was very close to TPK in 2 rounds. In the second, my barbarian rolled 56 damage for a basic melee attack - if she had been confused, that would have taken out any of the PCs at full health.


We've had some spectacularly bad luck, especially the Vanguard's player, who in the first two combats didn't roll higher than 8 to hit.
We have a paladin who didn't manage to hit anything in 5 or 6 fights. Later, in suspicious circumstances we used this distinctive trait to reassure ourselves he hadn't been replaced by a doppelganger. In our last climactic battle, in one round none of the six PCs rolled higher than 7 to hit. But there have been plenty of good rolls too.


How integral are the Icons to the game?
...If you remove them, what happens?
Icon rolls add plot twists outside the GM's control. This may be a good thing. Or it may not, when it means an extra half hour preparation at the start of the session. They are also important in tying a character's background into the setting.

[Garimeth]

13 True Ways and the bestiary are available for pre-order and PDF download on the pelgrane press website.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

It'd be interesting to have a Waterdeep-style campaign where Icons are used for the noble Houses.

[Garimeth]

It'd be interesting to have a Waterdeep-style campaign where Icons are used for the noble Houses.

That would be really cool if the game was well run enough to make the adventure be only in the city and immediate surroundings. If the icons are all city based and the party wants to go to another region it makes all the icon specific talents pointless, imo.

So in other news I got the 13 True Ways PDF, and its awesome. I think the monk, druid, and commander are done really well. Don't like the chaos mage, and I think the occultist is meh. Rules for multiclassing are really well balanced, don't allow for level dipping, and don't allow for things like a fighter using backstab on a flex attack. You have to make EITHER a fighter attack OR a rogue attack. Also your talents are split between the classes. In many cases you are stronger as a single class character. Only one of my players plans an multi-classing: a paladin/commander.

The fluff in the book is good, if you like that kind of stuff. They also added rules for metallic dragons, elementals, devils, and the 13th Age version of Mind Flayers (soul flensers). All in all I'm very happy with the purchase. I DO wish however that they had presented more maneuvers and spells for the original classes. The amount of stuff the new classes got to play around with were all on the level of the wizard and cleric from the original book - if not even more stuff. Makes me sorry for the paladin, barbarian, fighter, and rogue.

[Garimeth]

Anybody else pick up 13 True Ways?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

That would be really cool if the game was well run enough to make the adventure be only in the city and immediate surroundings. If the icons are all city based and the party wants to go to another region it makes all the icon specific talents pointless, imo.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. You very clearly talk with the players and define the scope to include the city and nothing beyond, like in Dragon Age 2. I rather like the idea of a campaign like that. Travel times are easy, it's all condensed, and it ripples fast.

[Garimeth]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. You very clearly talk with the players and define the scope to include the city and nothing beyond, like in Dragon Age 2. I rather like the idea of a campaign like that. Travel times are easy, it's all condensed, and it ripples fast.

You know I kind of did that with my current game. I edited the stock campaign settings map to be more blown up and added some more towns and fleshed them out. I'm using the area from axis and north to Forge as the main portion of the setting and have labeled it the Trade Region, made up a bunch of local politics and stuff. Almost all of the campaign has taken place in Glitterhaegen so far, and its been interesting. I'm definitely not super experienced running a heavily urban game, but the group has liked it alot and its been alot of fun.

What do you think you would make the central plot be?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I'm not sure I'd want a central plot as much as I'd want a catalyst. Build the conflicting groups and Icons in the city, then drop something that massively disrupts the balance of power. Entrez vous the PCs. In fact, a One Unique Thing could easily be that catalyst. Between sessions, I'd take time to think about how the events of the session have influenced things.

(Prep-wise, I'd have a few standard NPC templates and notes on what the forces of each faction look like.)

[Garimeth]

I'm not sure I'd want a central plot as much as I'd want a catalyst. Build the conflicting groups and Icons in the city, then drop something that massively disrupts the balance of power. Entrez vous the PCs. In fact, a One Unique Thing could easily be that catalyst. Between sessions, I'd take time to think about how the events of the session have influenced things.

(Prep-wise, I'd have a few standard NPC templates and notes on what the forces of each faction look like.)

So essentially a 13th Age version of Fallout: New Vegas.

That does sound really fun. I might take some elements of that for my next game I run. Going for a Celtic style game with an emphasis on low tech development, fey/spirits, and a more clan based style of politics.

[Kiero]

We had our 13th session last week, it's improving as we get more familiar with what we can do and the number of shifting variables on a round-by-round basis. I'm enjoying my off-turn powers which mess with people, and we had a grab attack which worked.

I am, however, finding that fantasy is becoming less and less appealing to me as a genre/setting.

[Garimeth]

We had our 13th session last week, it's improving as we get more familiar with what we can do and the number of shifting variables on a round-by-round basis. I'm enjoying my off-turn powers which mess with people, and we had a grab attack which worked.

I am, however, finding that fantasy is becoming less and less appealing to me as a genre/setting.

I hear you, I have thought about doing a sci-fi game for my next campaign instead of the one I originally was going to do.

[Selpharia]

So, in an effort to satiate my increasing hunger for a 13th age group to play in, I've decided to take 13th age to my FLGS on D&D night, but I need to figure out a) what to run and b) how best to plan for pick up players and make it interesting and c) how to describe the default 13th age setting in an enticing way in about three or fewer sentences. Any advice? Or is there another group-finding method I should try?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Do you have access to any adventures? Those make the best introduction to the 13th Age setting, mainly because the most distinct thing about it is how the Icons influence the rest of the setting. Beyond that, its greatest hallmark is that it's a vibrant magical world.

[Selpharia]

Do you have access to any adventures? Those make the best introduction to the 13th Age setting, mainly because the most distinct thing about it is how the Icons influence the rest of the setting. Beyond that, its greatest hallmark is that it's a vibrant magical world.

I'm looking at Crown of the Lich King. Are there any in particular I should try to get my hands on?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

The Organized Play adventures were indeed what I was thinking of, primarily because they showcase the Icons without involving them so directly. Crown of the Lich King was an alright adventure, but it does a good job of showcasing that element of the setting. After all, it involves a trek through the Necropolis itself!

[Garimeth]

I know this is a little after the fact, but the adventure in the core book is actually pretty good and will last about 1-2 sessions depenging on pacing. I ran that with my players as our test to see if we wanted to jump ship from our 5e playtest campaign we were running. We are still playing 13th Age. I honestly don't really see myself using another system for the fantasy genre for a while.

[Shyftir]

Just got 13 True Ways! Really like the new fluff.

Just out of curiosity, I'm planning an episodic almost "Saturday Morning Cartoons" sort of campaign where the PCs all work for a "retrieval service/adventurers guild." My question is: Which city do you think I should set up the HQ of this organization?

[Garimeth]

Just got 13 True Ways! Really like the new fluff.

Just out of curiosity, I'm planning an episodic almost "Saturday Morning Cartoons" sort of campaign where the PCs all work for a "retrieval service/adventurers guild." My question is: Which city do you think I should set up the HQ of this organization?

So In my campaign I used the "Bitterwood Mercenary Association" based out of Glitterhaegen, and coined that entire portion of the Empire from Glit through to Anvil as the "Trade Region" and said it was the center of commerce for the Empire. The association functioned basically as a kind a screening and job referral service. You could get other mercs, but Association mercs had a certain standard of training and professionalism, and thus commanded better jobs and wages.

Glitterhaegen always struck me as the most cosmopolitan. My campaign also very much dealt initially with the orc lord's invasion out of the NW. I think a Freeport game centered around the southern forests and the sea wall could be pretty cool too. If you ever need a quick advenure, then something new came from Omen, the necroplis, or the sea wall. Very 1990s Power Rangers like, lol.