OOTS epilogue: The Gates

[Solrac_Zechnas]

I am new in the forum and I don't know if was talked about this, but I want know your opinion about this.

To Now the previous four was destroyed and its very possibly that the Graagor's Gate be used for the ritual. The rule of Drama claims what will we know if the Snarl was really real.

After the resolution of all conflicts in the comic, wht expect you what will happen with the gates?

The rifts will be closed forever or the order will to rebuild the gates and if the last happen how you believe its the best way of protect the new gates of be taken for the forces of Evil again.

[RMS Oceanic]

What happens with the gates will depend on what the truth surrounding the Snarl is. They may just be rebuilt, or maybe the "actual" nature of the rifts will allow a way to retconjure them, by which I mean instead of just closing them, make it so it looks like they were never there.

If the Gates are restored, I see the Order taking responsibility for their protection, and working together to do it. I've felt that an underlying theme of OOTS is fixing the messes of the previous generation, so Roy will figure out why the Order of the Scribble disbanded and prevent that. We've also seen that each of the original defences, while powerful in their own way, had a weakness that another defence could have compensated for. There'll definitely not just be monsters OR spells OR soldiers defending them, but a mixture that's more adaptable to threats.

[F.Harr]

Without knowing more about Rich as a storyteller, it's hard to know. RMS's idea is as good as any and probably better than most.

[Xelbiuj]

You'd think the good gods could develop a ritual of their own to move the gates (or is it just the rifts?) and move it to their domain. An army of Solars would be much better than anything the Order could muster.

Not that this would happen. Makes logical sense but not good storytelling.

[Gift Jeraff]

The Snarl will rebuild the Gates itself so those darn kids will stay off its lawn.

[johnbragg]

If the Gates are restored, I see the Order taking responsibility for their protection, and working together to do it. I've felt that an underlying theme of OOTS is fixing the messes of the previous generation, so Roy will figure out why the Order of the Scribble disbanded and prevent that.

That's definitely a possibility. But another theme is "it's not okay to thoughtlessly slaughter things because they have fangs/green skin/breathe acid."

From that perspective, is the Snarl is kind of a wronged party. If I remember right, as soon as the gods noticed it, they tried to kill it, the Western gods paying the price for that error. Assuming that the world Blackwing saw is real, in its isolation the Snarl has created a world of its own. It's possible that the resolution sees the Snarl revealed as not-evil on its own terms, and so between the Snarl and the gods, the Rifts can be sealed or controlled.

It's very possible that it's not the Snarl itself that is the real threat at this point, it's that the Rifts themselves are massive hazards. This side of the Rift--reasonably safe. That side of the Rift--reasonably safe. Crossing the Rift--ooh, that's going to be a problem.

Perhaps the IFCC's plan for the Rifts is some sort of war of OOTSverse vs Snarlworld? That would kill a lot of metallic dragons....

Edit: Ninja'd!

The Snarl will rebuild the Gates itself so those darn kids will stay off its lawn.

[Manga Shoggoth]

...If I remember right, as soon as the gods noticed it, they tried to kill it, the Western gods paying the price for that error. Assuming that the world Blackwing saw is real, in its isolation the Snarl has created a world of its own. It's possible that the resolution sees the Snarl revealed as not-evil on its own terms, and so between the Snarl and the gods, the Rifts can be sealed or controlled.

Not quite. What we have been told is that the Gods were unaware that they had created the Snarl until it manifested and took out two of them in one round, followed by the rest of one of the Pantheons (273 The Crayons of Time: Doodles on the Sketch Pad of Eternity (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0273.html) and 274 The Crayons of Time: The Snarl (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0274.html)).

However, this is from the lore of the Sapphire Guild, so we don't know how true it is.

[KillianHawkeye]

You'd think the good gods could develop a ritual of their own to move the gates (or is it just the rifts?) and move it to their domain. An army of Solars would be much better than anything the Order could muster.

Not that this would happen. Makes logical sense but not good storytelling.

This definitely won't happen, because the Gods don't want gateways to the God-Slaying Abomination anywhere near them.

[Spoomeister]

I think we've gotten enough hints that we have no idea anymore what the 'true story is.

Consider: world within the Snarl and the commentary that perhaps the characters don't know the truth about it; Tarquin, RedCloak and Xykon each making the story about themselves; Tarquin trying to push Elan to follow a noble Hero's Journey along the path to telling Tarquin's own story; Roy's plotline, V's plotline; Rich's comment that recently that there's still years to go to round out the story...

...I think all taken together, we've been given plenty of clues that this is not simply "race to the final gate, epic battle at the final gate, Evil is defeated, group photo op of heroes getting medals, roll credits and triumphant Star Wars closing music". I think the final gate and what's done with the rifts and gates as they are or were, is only part of the story. The larger overall themes, and the overall ending Rich wants, is still yet to be outlined.

[NerdyKris]

Agreed with the "We have no idea" party. At this point, we have nothing but questions about the nature of the gates and the Snarl. If this question had been asked before strip #672 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0672.html), the answer would be very different. (Although I always disliked the "They'll just stop Xykon and redo the ritual" idea. It's incredibly cliched and just leaves the problem for someone else.)

As it stands now, we don't know if the Snarl is even real, a metaphor, the actual eastern pantheon exiled to a sub dimension, or anything. We don't know what that world on the other side of the rift is. We don't know if the Dark One is even telling the truth to Redcloak himself right now. What if the real plan is to settle on the world in the rift?


But whatever happens, I think we can clearly rule out "They beat Xykon and seal the gates permanently using the ritual again."

[jidasfire]

I'm not sure how it will ultimately play out, but I am reasonably sure that the Gates will no longer exist at the end of this. The Gates and the Rifts are symptoms of a problem inherent in the world itself, and simply remaking the same problems means that nothing will have been fixed. It's my hope that the Order breaks the cycle somehow, either destroying the Snarl outright, or finding some way to separate it into its own being in such a way as to bring peace between it and the world as is. It would be tragic to see the Order fall victim to the failings of the Scribblers, and somewhat redundant to see them rebuild gates with slightly different protections either way. Plus, we saw the Gates remade in the fantasy happy ending, so I find it unlikely to happen again.

[Porthos]

I've felt that an underlying theme of OOTS is fixing the messes of the previous generation, so Roy will figure out why the Order of the Scribble disbanded and prevent that.

Beyond anything about the Gates, Rifts, and Snarls, I think this is dead on the money. It's an idea I've been championing for quite a long time now.

It is obvious that Team Scribble tore itself apart over their differences. How reasonable/unreasonable those differences were and all the little things that led up to the break, we have no idea. None whatsoever. Sure, we can guess and tease from the few glimpses that we've seen of their adventuring days (and afterwards), but that's about it.

But it is very clear to me that one of the driving themes of this story is for Team OotS to succeed where those before them failed. And I don't mean just in terms of goals, but in terms of character. Sure Epic Adventures did Epic Things before them. But all the glory they got didn't stop them from failing at the most basic goal of all: Staying together as friends, even if things in life cause them to drift apart.

And that failure planted the seeds for the conflict that Team OotS is trying to solve.

Sure, Team OotS could bring things back to the Status Quo of what they found while still breaking apart themselves. But that really wouldn't solve much in the long run, would it? It's just kicking the can down the road and hoping that someone else will figure out what to do.

Not very heroic, really.

But if the Order of the Stick can grow as characters and not succumb to whatever personal rivalries fell the Order of the Scribble, then Team OotS might succeed far more than Team Scribble ever did, even if they never reach the same epic levels.

This whole dynamic can be seen elsewhere in the comic as well. Roy trying to break the cycle of Son/Father conflicts that can been seen from Horace to Eugene to Roy. Haley trying not to repeat the same mistakes that got Ian into so much trouble, mentally.

Oh, sure, they'll make their own mistakes along the way. We've already seen plenty of them. But perhaps, just perhaps, they'll be able to grow enough as people from them for them not to bite them in the rear down the road.

[NerdyKris]

Sure, Team OotS could bring things back to the Status Quo of what they found while still breaking apart themselves. But that really wouldn't solve much in the long run, would it? It's just kicking the can down the road and hoping that someone else will figure out what to do.

Not very heroic, really.

A fact that Belkar, of all people, pointed out quite poetically. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0881.html)

[Sir_Leorik]

I am new in the forum and I don't know if was talked about this, but I want know your opinion about this.

Welcome to the Giant in the Playground forums Solrac_Zechnas! As the X-men say, "Hope you survive the experience!"


To Now the previous four was destroyed and its very possibly that the Graagor's Gate be used for the ritual. The rule of Drama claims what will we know if the Snarl was really real.

After the resolution of all conflicts in the comic, wht expect you what will happen with the gates?

The rifts will be closed forever or the order will to rebuild the gates and if the last happen how you believe its the best way of protect the new gates of be taken for the forces of Evil again.

I don't think we have enough information to speculate on what will happen to the Final Gate, whether the Snarl is real, what is on the other world, or several other related issues. I think that's the real reason so many forum members are so anxious for the Order to leap into the Rift, so that some of these nagging questions can be answered. However, Rich Berlew has said that he has years of story left to tell, so I suggest being patient. (Or you could just make an educated guess; everyone around here does. :smallamused:)

Here's my thoughts on what's going to happen next:

The battle with Tarquin's army will take a few more strips. The Order will wrap up their business with Tarquin before the end of Book Five, and head for the Dwarven Homelands, on the Northern Continent. Durkon will remain a Vampire for all of Book Six, and possibly till the end of the story.

Belkar will not die in book Five. Belkar will die a heroic death. Belkar's replacement will be one of the following: O-Chul, Sabine, Thog, Gannji & Enor (Gannji has the Leadership feat), the animals in Roy's Bag of Tricks, Mr. Scruffy, Batman, Buffy Summers, Jenny, or the Flumphs.

More secrets about the Gates, the Order of the Scribble and the other world will be revealed, but the Order will not travel to the other world in book Five or Six.

Elan will not kill Tarquin. Sabine will either kill Tarquin herself, or sneak into Tarquin's bedchamber with a bunch of Devils, Demons and Yugoloths, and they will drag Tarquin alive to the underworld.

Roy's Archon is still working on the plan he and Roy hatched together, and Roy's Archon will show up, along with Elan's Courre, Haley's Einherjar, and the Avatar of Thor to help make it happen. (Elan would probably end up in Arborea/Mt. Olympus, and he'd get an Eladrin to guide him after he dies, while Haley converted to the worship of Thor. This doesn't mean Elan and Haley will die, it means the Courre and Einherjar they are destined to meet when they die if they fulfill their alignments will pitch in to help.)

The MitD will begin to actively hamper Xykon and Redcloak's plans, in subtle ways. The Demon Roaches will notice, and try to warn Xykon or Redcloak, who ignore them.

:roach: "Just like "The Boy who cried Wolfwere."

Lien will find a +1 Holy Evil Outsider Bane Longspear and then use it to skewer Qarr like a shish kabob. (Actually that's only one of many ways I'd be interested in seeing Qarr's ticket punched.)

So those are my "predictions", for what it's worth.

[Sir_Leorik]

I've felt that an underlying theme of OOTS is fixing the messes of the previous generation, so Roy will figure out why the Order of the Scribble disbanded and prevent that. We've also seen that each of the original defences, while powerful in their own way, had a weakness that another defence could have compensated for. There'll definitely not just be monsters OR spells OR soldiers defending them, but a mixture that's more adaptable to threats.

A very good point, and it's a broader theme that applies to more than just the Order of the Scribble. Roy has been struggling to put right the task his father left undone, while restoring the family traditions his father scorned. Haley has been wrestling with the inner demons caused by her father's obsessive paranoia, Elan is horrified by what his father has done to the Western Continent, Durkon ultimately became a Vampire because his mentor, High Priest Hurak, decided to meddle with a prophecy, and Hinjo was left to pick up the pieces from his uncle's mishandling of Miko. The only members of the Order who are not feeling the direct repercussions of something their parents, uncles, or mentors did are Vaarsuvius and Belkar.

All of the problems the Order face come from the break up of the Order of the Scribble, Eugene Greenhilt's attention span problems, Ian Starshine's paranoia, High Priest Hurak's decision to kick a can down the road, Shojo completely misreading Miko's fragile emotional state and Tarquin being Tarquin. (The other stuff Shojo did was against the laws of Azure City, but it wouldn't have blown up in the Order's face the way Miko murdering Shojo and later destroying Soon's Gate did.)

The Order needs to find a way to be cohesive, even in the face of tragedy (unlike the Order of the Scribble), to have the determination to see their task to the end (unlike Eugene), to trust each other and their allies (unlike Ian), to deal with problems when they come up, rather than letting them fester (which is what Hurak did when he sent Durkon away), to become better judges of character (unlike Ian) and to not treat anyone as disposable because they are NPCs, or less relevant to the main plot (which what Tarquin is guilty of, among many sins). And while V doesn't have a direct connection to the previous generation, she has made several of the same mistakes as Ian and Hurak, and is only now trying to mend her ways.

[m4th]

As it stands now, we don't know if the Snarl is even real, a metaphor, the actual eastern pantheon exiled to a sub dimension, or anything. We don't know what that world on the other side of the rift is. We don't know if the Dark One is even telling the truth to Redcloak himself right now. What if the real plan is to settle on the world in the rift?


Did... does anyone else think NerdyKris just gave us the best guess yet as to the real plot?

After all, The Dark One is establishing a goblin army in the afterlife. If TDO moves the rift to the goblin afterlife, they could invade with an army "the likes of which [Jirix] had never seen."

[Kaymyth]

I have some ideas as to where we may be going with the Rifts and the Snarl. It actually allows for the story behind the Snarl to be reasonably accurate and still have a living world beyond the Rift.

The Snarl was created by a bunch of arguing gods. It was born of anger and frustration, so it was a pretty angry, frustrated baby. But that's exactly what it was - a baby. It lashed out. It was upset, confused, and entirely unaware of what it was doing.

The gods locked it away, and it didn't really have anything to do with itself but sit and think and grow up. It was essentially made of the threads of Creation - it's not unreasonable to think that as it slowly shed its anger and untangled itself from Snarl to Scribble that it would unlock its underlying nature to create. So it made a world.

I do remember a part where the Order of the Scribble saw a bit of the Snarl/Scribble poke through and zap somebody, but that could be explained as accident or an overreaction to potential invaders. Once they locked up the Rifts with the Gates, it may have had time to think about it and decided that maybe it shouldn't just zap anybody who opens up the door again.

[Solse]

The Snarl was created by a bunch of arguing gods. It was born of anger and frustration, so it was a pretty angry, frustrated baby. But that's exactly what it was - a baby. It lashed out. It was upset, confused, and entirely unaware of what it was doing.

The gods locked it away, and it didn't really have anything to do with itself but sit and think and grow up. It was essentially made of the threads of Creation - it's not unreasonable to think that as it slowly shed its anger and untangled itself from Snarl to Scribble that it would unlock its underlying nature to create. So it made a world.

I do remember a part where the Order of the Scribble saw a bit of the Snarl/Scribble poke through and zap somebody, but that could be explained as accident or an overreaction to potential invaders. Once they locked up the Rifts with the Gates, it may have had time to think about it and decided that maybe it shouldn't just zap anybody who opens up the door again.
I think that the Snarl turned itself into a world between the time that it killed Mijung or whatever Soon's wife was called, and now.

[Sir_Leorik]

I have some ideas as to where we may be going with the Rifts and the Snarl. It actually allows for the story behind the Snarl to be reasonably accurate and still have a living world beyond the Rift.

The Snarl was created by a bunch of arguing gods. It was born of anger and frustration, so it was a pretty angry, frustrated baby. But that's exactly what it was - a baby. It lashed out. It was upset, confused, and entirely unaware of what it was doing.

The gods locked it away, and it didn't really have anything to do with itself but sit and think and grow up. It was essentially made of the threads of Creation - it's not unreasonable to think that as it slowly shed its anger and untangled itself from Snarl to Scribble that it would unlock its underlying nature to create. So it made a world.

I do remember a part where the Order of the Scribble saw a bit of the Snarl/Scribble poke through and zap somebody, but that could be explained as accident or an overreaction to potential invaders. Once they locked up the Rifts with the Gates, it may have had time to think about it and decided that maybe it shouldn't just zap anybody who opens up the door again.

I like your hypothesis Kaymyth. It's simple, elegant, and doesn't require the readers to believe the worst of Soon, Dorukan or Lirian. It even allows for the Dark One's plan, as recounted via Redcloak, to be 100% trustworthy, since the DO only knows what his allies among the Evil Gods would have told him. We still need to test the hypothesis, preferably in a way that doesn't involve throwing anyone to their deaths (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0545.html). :smallcool:

[F.Harr]

I like your hypothesis Kaymyth. It's simple, elegant, and doesn't require the readers to believe the worst of Soon, Dorukan or Lirian. It even allows for the Dark One's plan, as recounted via Redcloak, to be 100% trustworthy, since the DO only knows what his allies among the Evil Gods would have told him. We still need to test the hypothesis, preferably in a way that doesn't involve throwing anyone to their deaths (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0545.html). :smallcool:

Death by deorbiting from VERY high up sounds about as horrifying as anything else, so, yeah, I'm with you. I votethey start with a yo-yo and then move up to periscopes. Where they went wrong was STARTING with chickens and magic. You build up to that stuff.

And I like Kaymyth's idea much better than my own, that the snarl is smiling at people, tempting them to try to cross.

[Sir_Leorik]

Death by deorbiting from VERY high up sounds about as horrifying as anything else, so, yeah, I'm with you. I votethey start with a yo-yo and then move up to periscopes. Where they went wrong was STARTING with chickens and magic. You build up to that stuff.

And I like Kaymyth's idea much better than my own, that the snarl is smiling at people, tempting them to try to cross.

You realize that the string on the yo-yo is attached to someone's finger, right? If the Snarl is in soul devouring mode, it could yank the person holding the yo-yo into the Rift. That's almost as risky as the Goblin Cleric depositing a chicken into the Rift by hand.

EDIT: Also the Snarl could just unmake a yo-yo or a periscope. According to Shojo and Redcloak, the Snarl didn't just kill everyone of the first world, it unmade everything, living and non-living alike.

[Mike Havran]

I don't want to guess what the Snarl is or isn't, but I don't think the story will lead to the Order rebuilding the Gates. That's just...not definitive enough. Even if the Order overcame their differences and made a better protection system than the Epic Scribblers (and the Order will hardly become Epic themselves), it will just leave the question of how many years will pass before another villain starts to deteriorate it and threaten the existence once again.

Therefore, I think the Snarl will become harmless by the end, if he isn't already.


You realize that the string on the yo-yo is attached to someone's finger, right? If the Snarl is in soul devouring mode, it could yank the person holding the yo-yo into the Rift. That's almost as risky as the Goblin Cleric depositing a chicken into the Rift by hand.
Eh, just make the human slave hold the end :smalltongue:

[F.Harr]

You realize that the string on the yo-yo is attached to someone's finger, right? If the Snarl is in soul devouring mode, it could yank the person holding the yo-yo into the Rift. That's almost as risky as the Goblin Cleric depositing a chicken into the Rift by hand.


You could loose a finger, sure. That's why you have a guy with ssisors close by. But we don't have any evidence of the snarl reacting to just plain matter. So it probably only reacts to living things.


EDIT: Also the Snarl could just unmake a yo-yo or a periscope. According to Shojo and Redcloak, the Snarl didn't just kill everyone of the first world, it unmade everything, living and non-living alike.

Then all you've lost is the yo-yo and the periscope and you know that the next thing to do is to put warning tape all around the thing and big scary guards saying things like "Trust me, man, you don't want to mess with this thing, it's horrifying!"

"I don't want to guess what the Snarl is or isn't, but I don't think the story will lead to the Order rebuilding the Gates. That's just...not definitive enough. Even if the Order overcame their differences and made a better protection system than the Epic Scribblers (and the Order will hardly become Epic themselves), it will just leave the question of how many years will pass before another villain starts to deteriorate it and threaten the existence once again. "

That's well-reasoned.

[zimmerwald1915]

But if the Order of the Stick can grow as characters and not succumb to whatever personal rivalries fell the Order of the Scribble, then Team OotS might succeed far more than Team Scribble ever did, even if they never reach the same epic levels.
Do we have any reason other than blind faith to believe this? Why is it more reasonable to believe that the Order will [survive to] grow as characters and will avoid various emotional pitfalls than that they will fall prey to their failings? The generation before them did, after all. Why should we expect anything more from these people?

[Ramien]

Do we have any reason other than blind faith to believe this? Why is it more reasonable to believe that the Order will [survive to] grow as characters and will avoid various emotional pitfalls than that they will fall prey to their failings? The generation before them did, after all. Why should we expect anything more from these people?

Because the Order is getting all their major screw-ups out of the way ahead of time. Unlike the Scribbles, who worked together grudgingly at best and devolved into serious infighting because each thought they knew 'the best' way to defend the gates (for all the good it really did them), we've seen the Order go through the death of Roy and getting split up, and learning that they work much better together than alone. Belkar knows it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0881.html) (though his opinion may become moot soon), Haley knows it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0666.html), Elan has a serious hero complex when it comes to Roy, V has respect for Roy and has at least been shown to apologize at times. Durkon was aware of his tendency to sit on his duff (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0667.html) when he doesn't have a strong leader as well.

From Roy's perspective, he's also shown to be willing to give more trust to the more 'unreliable' party members like Haley and Elan. Yes, we don't know how he's going to react to V's eventual full confession - it is much more serious than what's happened to Elan and Haley, although Durkon's probably ranks up close to it - not because of the severity of the action, but because of the specific effect on the souls of each - Durkon was changed to evil, after all.

We've seen all the characters save Durkon (and he's in the middle of his, possibly) go through at least one period of personal crisis and growth that makes them more likely to work better with the rest of the Order. Belkar's learning to play by at least some of the rules, combined with Mr. Scruffy's influence making him at least consider other people now and then. Haley's learned to trust at least Elan, Elan's gotten at least a little more competent, and V's, well, we all know about V.

I don't think that it is actually going to happen - the revelations of what's behind the rifts does lead towards a different sort of finale - but I do think the Order would be more capable of trying to defend the gates as a group than the Scribbles - and it all hinges on Roy. If he can hold up, the group will hold. If he falls, they may rally together in his memory, but that's not as likely. If he screws up - not just tactically, but in some way that would betray the trust and respect he's gotten from the rest of the Order - then they'll fall apart quicker than the Scribble did.

[RadagastTheBrow]

What if the Gates get rebuilt... as actual Gates?

I mean, you don't need all of Roy's ranks in Knowledge: Architecture and Engineering to tell that a Gate that doesn't permit cross-travel is badly designed and unlikely to last very long. That's kinda what makes a Gate a Gate and not a patchy glorified wall.

Just sayin.'

[Porthos]

Do we have any reason other than blind faith to believe this?

Because the story is going to have a happy ending. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html)
Because Roy has already set the stage for a comparison with a 'what the hell got into these folks to cause them to split apart' type comment. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0695.html)
Because Roy has already learned not to act like his father. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0500.html)
Because Roy has already learned not be a jackass in regards to Elan. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0162.html)
Because Haley has learned to open up and trust others. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0393.html)
Because Haley has learned not to follow in her father's footsteps. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0772.html)
Because Elan is learning to take responsibility (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0598.html) and realize that there are some things he can't do.
Because Elan is defying Bardic Tradition to keep things open and honest between Haley and himself. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html)
Because Belkar is learning to emphasize with others (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0807.html).
Because Belkar is actually showing a small amount of alarm at the plight of a teammate, as well as wondering why they hell HE is alive and Durkon isn't (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0879.html).
Because both Durkon and Vaarsuvius admited to the other that they were wrong and made mistakes during the time they were on the Azure City fleet. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0667.html)
Because Vaarsuvius is starting to face up to what he did (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0920.html). (*NOTE* Starting :smalltongue:)
Because shortly after Roy nearly had a nervous breakdown, Elan was able to get Roy to see the need for optimism. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0891.html)

That last one is perhaps the most important because from From 880 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0880.html) to the strip linked above (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0891.html), the Stick was as close to breaking for real as we have seen so far.

And yet because of the contributions of all present (plus a helpful dreamscape :smalltongue:), they emerged stronger than they were before. Unlike a certain other party which split apart after the death of a teammate. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html)

Plus other events in the comic.

I HAVE put some thought into this, you know. :smalltongue:

Why should we expect anything more from these people?

Because Rich is writing The Order of the Stick, not The Order of the Scribble. :smallwink:

Now that doesn't mean that there isn't room for lots of problems down the road. Who knows how Durkon 2.0 is goint to affect things. Including his own world view. Who knows just how much more Belkar will grow as a character, or if he will regress at all. Who knows just how much V will be willing to face up to things and how the party will react to it. And who knows whether or not the rest of the party can keep their own negative personality traits in check?

But, you know what? I'm gonna bet on them to pull it out. :smallwink:

[Bharaeth]

Not sure if this is the place for such a musing, but the thread did at least talk about the gates:

Is anyone else suspicious that, being that one of our major sources of info regarding the gates is Soon, and he claimed to no nothing about them until his wife died...

Well, how can that be? One of them was hanging in the sky above his capital city! Maybe the gates are very difficult to see from a distance or partially invisible, but that hasn't been noted before. There's also a chance he never visited his nation's capital, but that too seems unlikely...

I know it's been implied that paladins don't ever lie, but I'm not sure how true that is

[Kish]

The rift over Azure City was the size of a single sapphire, remember?

[Bharaeth]

Oh fair enough - I'll kiss that conspiracy theory goodbye!

[Sir_Leorik]

Not sure if this is the place for such a musing, but the thread did at least talk about the gates:

Is anyone else suspicious that, being that one of our major sources of info regarding the gates is Soon, and he claimed to no nothing about them until his wife died...

Well, how can that be? One of them was hanging in the sky above his capital city! Maybe the gates are very difficult to see from a distance or partially invisible, but that hasn't been noted before. There's also a chance he never visited his nation's capital, but that too seems unlikely...

I know it's been implied that paladins don't ever lie, but I'm not sure how true that is


The rift over Azure City was the size of a single sapphire, remember?

Not only was the Rift a pinprick the size of a small gemstone, it was four stories above street level. It could go unobserved for quite some time, especially if there was some external stimuli or specific Rift size before the Snarl would try to reach through a Rift. The Azure City, Redmountain Hills and Lirian's Glade Rifts were the only ones near inhabited areas. Of the three, the Redmountain Hills Rift was a few days away from a small town, so it was unlikely to be noticed. As I mentioned before, the Azure City Rift was small and far above the street, thus going unnoticed until looked for. Lirian's Glade was not only at ground level, it was larger than the other two, and in an area teeming with wildlife, Elves and tourists. That's why it got noticed, while the Azure City Rift went unobserved.

Of course now the Azure City Rift is much bigger; even at four stories up it's a lot harder to miss. :smallbiggrin:

[halfeye]

Not only was the Rift a pinprick the size of a small gemstone, it was four stories above street level. It could go unobserved for quite some time, especially if there was some external stimuli or specific Rift size before the Snarl would try to reach through a Rift.

...

As I mentioned before, the Azure City Rift was small and far above the street, thus going unnoticed until looked for. Lirian's Glade was not only at ground level, it was larger than the other two, and in an area teeming with wildlife, Elves and tourists. That's why it got noticed, while the Azure City Rift went unobserved.

...
Was Azure City there then? I thought the city was built to contain the rift, from nothing, after the gate was built?

[F.Harr]

Nope. It was already there. The CASTLE wasn't, but the city was.