D&D equivolents of real world technology:

[John Longarrow]

On a thread I got started talking about steam engines in D&D. After typing up how/why it could be made, I realized the real reason none would ever be made. It is so much cheaper to use other alternatives.

For the humble steam engine, most of what it does is allow you to turn the expansion of steam into linear force. With some hoops you can get this into a rotary source of power, useful for many applications. The classic example of ancient machines that use rotary force is the grain mill.

In D&D, there is little reason to spend hundreds or thousands of gold on making a magic item to generate steam that in turn spins something. There is a much cheaper alternative. Undead Horses.

If you look at the design of a Roman Crane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Roemerkran.jpg), you realize that the main source of power is simply something going in circles. If you animate a horse skeleton and weigh it down (max load, its undead so it doesn’t care) its creator can simply instruct it to run in the wheel to provide massive amounts of power. This could be applied to a paddle wheel, a set of belts to run simple machines, or even as a power source for grinding grain. The creator would simply need to make sure the wheel has its sides enclosed and that they don’t go over their control limit (or create a spell for single purpose undead) and they can turn out 1 HP “Motors” for about 50gp in materials.

So can anyone else come up with similar magic solutions to real world problems?

[kabreras]

There sint magical tech in D&D because mages (who happend to be the ones with the int to invent it) are ether too paranoids to share it with the world or too clever and know that it will backfire on them some day eventually.

So while it can be some wizard place with teck all over there is no realm with finite teck and bounds elementals and hordes of undeads working for the greater good.

[Emperor Tippy]

A Permanent Wall of Fire provides unlimited heat and thus unlimited energy. Energy substitute to Cold and you have unlimited cooling.

That is AC and Air Conditioning.

A dish washer is nothing more than an auto reset trap of Prestidigitation and costs 250 GP and 20 XP. The same with a clothes washer. Put the dishes in your Prestidigitation sink and press the button and they are all clean, throw your dirty clothes in the cleaning basket and press the button and they are all clean.

A Permanent Prismatic Sphere can remove from existence any physical matter that hits it. Put one in the sewers that all waste drains into and you are good to go.

There is very little technology that can't be replicated or improved upon with D&D magic.

[Kioras]

A Permanent Wall of Fire provides unlimited heat and thus unlimited energy. Energy substitute to Cold and you have unlimited cooling.

That is AC and Air Conditioning.

A dish washer is nothing more than an auto reset trap of Prestidigitation and costs 250 GP and 20 XP. The same with a clothes washer. Put the dishes in your Prestidigitation sink and press the button and they are all clean, throw your dirty clothes in the cleaning basket and press the button and they are all clean.

A Permanent Prismatic Sphere can remove from existence any physical matter that hits it. Put one in the sewers that all waste drains into and you are good to go.

There is very little technology that can't be replicated or improved upon with D&D magic.

Thankfully very few players have actually Tippy's posts on the subject, otherwise they would shelve their adventuring career and promptly go into industry and hire other suckers to do life threatening adventuring and dragon slaying.

[Emperor Tippy]

Thankfully very few players have actually Tippy's posts on the subject, otherwise they would shelve their adventuring career and promptly go into industry and hire other suckers to do life threatening adventuring and dragon slaying.

City building probably. I have wizards that can clear and lay down an entire metropolis in a weekend if there is a river, lake, or other water source nearby and a bit longer without (assuming that the wizard doesn't feel like abusing a Zodar's free Wish ability).

[Ranting Fool]

A Permanent Wall of Fire provides unlimited heat and thus unlimited energy. Energy substitute to Cold and you have unlimited cooling.

That is AC and Air Conditioning.

A dish washer is nothing more than an auto reset trap of Prestidigitation and costs 250 GP and 20 XP. The same with a clothes washer. Put the dishes in your Prestidigitation sink and press the button and they are all clean, throw your dirty clothes in the cleaning basket and press the button and they are all clean.

A Permanent Prismatic Sphere can remove from existence any physical matter that hits it. Put one in the sewers that all waste drains into and you are good to go.

There is very little technology that can't be replicated or improved upon with D&D magic.

I have had high magic cities in my campaigns that do things like this :smallbiggrin:

If you go the whole "They wouldn't use undead because it is evil" way of thinking then a golem does the same thing but a larger start up cost.

[Kioras]

City building probably. I have wizards that can clear and lay down an entire metropolis in a weekend if there is a river, lake, or other water source nearby and a bit longer without (assuming that the wizard doesn't feel like abusing a Zodar's free Wish ability).

A wizard, not using power if it is available to them? Can't imagine that happening with how the class is explained.

Only thing I can think of in the official D&D 3.5 high magic settings, is that gods smite high level casters or the god of magic and gods that grant spells just veto any attempt to use spells imaginatively or with any real power.

You know, only granting pure damage spells to people above level 5 or 6.

[Feint's End]

All of that is pretty standard for running a high magic society btw. A high magic setting is miles ahead of what we have in our real world. No waste, no dirt, infinite supply of water, food and shelter. Those are just a few things every mid level wizard could accomplish and it just gets more ridiculous from there.

I also disagree that the reason it doesn't happen is because of Wizards (the one who could pull that off) being to paranoid. It's simply because WotC and Paizo didn't want their settings like this. Realistically (using RAW to a certain not broken degree) settings would not work the way they do in most descriptions. At least not for very long.

Kudos here to Tippy and his Tippyverse which grasps for this idea and builds a (to a certain degree) realistical setting out of it.

Also the psychological aspects of such a world would be interesting. For example physical strength would probably not be seen as a factor of attraction anymore (not talking about being in a good shape and healthy) since mind rules over the body and therefor intelectuality becomes more interesting and important than being strong and able to "hunt" for your family.

[Kioras]

All of that is pretty standard for running a high magic society btw. A high magic setting is miles ahead of what we have in our real world. No waste, no dirt, infinite supply of water, food and shelter. Those are just a few things every mid level wizard could accomplish and it just gets more ridiculous from there.

I also disagree that the reason it doesn't happen is because of Wizards (the one who could pull that off) being to paranoid. It's simply because WotC and Paizo didn't want their settings like this. Realistically (using RAW to a certain not broken degree) settings would not work the way they do in most descriptions. At least not for very long.

Kudos here to Tippy and his Tippyverse which grasps for this idea and builds a (to a certain degree) realistical setting out of it.

Also the psychological aspects of such a world would be interesting. For example physical strength would probably not be seen as a factor of attraction anymore (not talking about being in a good shape and healthy) since mind rules over the body and therefor intelectuality becomes more interesting and important than being strong and able to "hunt" for your family.

Well yeah, but the reality is you can't really think of a good reason that the high magic WoTC worlds don't devolve into something similar to that, unless something is locking down the magic. Eberron is the closest we got and even that is a poor shadow of what it could really look like.

As far as what would classify as attractive, it would be the same as the real world. Power is attractive and that is it, which would be a magical world. Although the idea of someone like Blackstaff or Elminster pimp walking with a beautiful girl on each arm is a bit hard to fathom.

[Phelix-Mu]

Although the idea of someone like Blackstaff or Elminster pimp walking with a beautiful girl on each arm is a bit hard to fathom.

Have you seen Blackstaff's girl? Elminster used to date Mystra. 'Nuff said.

Power and prestige can matter just as much to a given female human as the appearance of her mate. The perception of "competent provider" is terribly complicated in real life, and only becomes more so with the inclusion of magic and the existence of all the varied forms of sentient life that occur in-game.

[Chronos]

Quoth Tippy:

A Permanent Prismatic Sphere can remove from existence any physical matter that hits it. Put one in the sewers that all waste drains into and you are good to go.
A few otyughs and gelatinous cubes provide for a much cheaper solution to the same problem.

As for attractiveness, we too live in a world where intelligence is more important than physical strength. I suspect that the reason why women still, in general, find strength more attractive than intelligence is that strength is heritable to a greater degree. Marry a strong man, you'll probably have strong sons. Marry a smart man, and you might or might not have smart children.

[Jeff the Green]

As for attractiveness, we too live in a world where intelligence is more important than physical strength. I suspect that the reason why women still, in general, find strength more attractive than intelligence is that strength is heritable to a greater degree. Marry a strong man, you'll probably have strong sons. Marry a smart man, and you might or might not have smart children.

...Or maybe it's because women are just like men and don't actually think that way? They just think "oh, that guy's (or girl's) hot." Of course, why they think a particular guy (or girl, or why a particular guy thinks a particular girl or guy) is hot is rooted in historical chance, commercial manipulation, and evolution, the last of which might (emphasis very much needed) have something to do with your or Phelix-mu's reasoning, but it's very much not a conscious decision.

[Kane0]

Computers and the internet can be replicated (and improved) using animated objects, messaging magic, illusions and a language (draconic works well).

[Phelix-Mu]

...Or maybe it's because women are just like men and don't actually think that way? They just think "oh, that guy's (or girl's) hot." Of course, why they think a particular guy (or girl, or why a particular guy thinks a particular girl or guy) is hot is rooted in historical chance, commercial manipulation, and evolution, the last of which might (emphasis very much needed) have something to do with your or Phelix-mu's reasoning, but it's very much not a conscious decision.

I was going to mention that most people don't approach choosing a mate from a rational perspective, or are even terribly aware of the process as it happens. I don't see how the realities of the game would change this at all, even with lots of magic or the prevalence of super-intelligent wizard-types.

Now, other races may well approach the matter differently, but the fluff for the major ones is mixed, with each of elves, dwarves, gnomes, and halflings kind of behaving in a manner appropriate to a human cliche (free-loving, loyalty and pragmatism, experimentation, and cozy family life kind of being an extremely broad summary of the group). I don't know if high-magic would change any of this, but if it did, it would definitely take time (as the non-human races are generally portrayed as much less culturally mutable than humans).

[NeoPhoenix0]

No one seems to have mentioned ring gates plus a metal rod. You use it to make infinite energy and apply it somehow. You put the rod partway through one ring gate and weld the ends together, so it falls continuously. Arguably since the item never finishes passing through it doesn't count against the weight limit. The real problem here it making this useful. In D&D, without any houserules, things fall the entire way in one round. So there you need to find a way to use an object, weighing less than 100 lbs if memory serves, continuously falling an infinite distance every round.

[Emperor Tippy]

No one seems to have mentioned ring gates plus a metal rod. You use it to make infinite energy and apply it somehow. You put the rod partway through one ring gate and weld the ends together, so it falls continuously. Arguably since the item never finishes passing through it doesn't count against the weight limit. The real problem here it making this useful. In D&D, without any houserules, things fall the entire way in one round. So there you need to find a way to use an object, weighing less than 100 lbs if memory serves, continuously falling an infinite distance every round.

There are a number of ways to extract energy from such a system.

[NeoPhoenix0]

There are a number of ways to extract energy from such a system.

Depends on what you are extracting energy for. The word rail cannon comes to mind here. People usually talk about using it to power mechanical devices, But I can't think of any that it would work properly for. If you managed to create a working car for instance, extracting energy would cause the car to crash into a wall or something. Unless you slow the rod down somehow first.

[TuggyNE]

Depends on what you are extracting energy for. The word rail cannon comes to mind here. People usually talk about using it to power mechanical devices, But I can't think of any that it would work properly for. If you managed to create a working car for instance, extracting energy would cause the car to crash into a wall or something. Unless you slow the rod down somehow first.

Your earlier post was actually slightly off; objects fall up to I believe 1000 feet in a round, though the rules are not in Core. So it doesn't have infinite wattage, just unlimited joules, and simply hooking up a rack and pinion system would work fine.

[NeoPhoenix0]

Your earlier post was actually slightly off; objects fall up to I believe 1000 feet in a round, though the rules are not in Core. So it doesn't have infinite wattage, just unlimited joules, and simply hooking up a rack and pinion system would work fine.

I am very interested in a source if that would be at all possible.

[gooddragon1]

I have had high magic cities in my campaigns that do things like this :smallbiggrin:

If you go the whole "They wouldn't use undead because it is evil" way of thinking then a golem does the same thing but a larger start up cost.

Dicing words here but:

Polymorph any object (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorphAnyObject.htm). Pebble into Stone Golem (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/golem.htm#stoneGolem)

Same or Lower int +2
Same kingdom +5
Same class +2

Permanent

A golem’s creator can command it if the golem is within 60 feet and can see and hear its creator. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/golem.htm)

Lizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lizard.htm) to manticore (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/manticore.htm) lizard HD = 1/2 of a HD, Manticore HD = 6, therefore no HD limit
Infinite source of absolutely loyal stone golems so long as no one casts dispel magic on them.

For bigger jobs:

pebble to stone collossus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/colossus.htm#stoneColossus)

[JW86]

Love this thread.

My Orc Barbarian and group just overtook a large city-state and has crowned himself King. I have appointed one of the player's wizards to the position of Court Wizard, and another as Mayor of the city.

One of our characters has a Major Artifact, ring of terraforming, which we are using to dig grooves in the earth from the nearby sea for irrigation so that we can feed the hundreds and thousands of ex-slaves the orc has freed (he was sold into slavitude as a child, and is on a world-wide campaign to kill all slavers), alongside moving the earth to form natural defences for the city (walls, moats,etc). We're also looking at going on a quest to get a seed of Yggdrasil or other similarly epic magical tree, to plant in or near the royal botanical gardens the elven druid is charged with, to attract alliance from the elvenfolk.

I'd love to hear more ideas of magical devices I can OOC suggest to the magician character, so he can IC bring them up to me :D

Generally feeding, sheltering and keeping safe the new freedmen, plus any cool tricks anyone would like to share, please, share!

[Maginomicon]

A Permanent Wall of Fire provides unlimited heat and thus unlimited energy. Energy substitute to Cold and you have unlimited cooling.

That is AC and Air Conditioning.

A dish washer is nothing more than an auto reset trap of Prestidigitation and costs 250 GP and 20 XP. The same with a clothes washer. Put the dishes in your Prestidigitation sink and press the button and they are all clean, throw your dirty clothes in the cleaning basket and press the button and they are all clean.

A Permanent Prismatic Sphere can remove from existence any physical matter that hits it. Put one in the sewers that all waste drains into and you are good to go.

There is very little technology that can't be replicated or improved upon with D&D magic.

I'll give you that the Prestidigitation and Prismatic X effects can do as you say, but...

Strictly-speaking?

Maybe I'm just not understanding the Smashing an Object (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm) rules but...

A Wall of Fire (or an energy-substituted Wall of Fire) doesn't affect objects, does it? Even if you were only wanting to heat/cool creatures, fire damage isn't among the things that can save creatures from cold conditions (nor cold damage among the things that can save creatures from hot conditions), at least so far as I recall (AFB for Frostburn/Sandstorm).

Thus, strictly-speaking, you could kill a chicken with a wall of fire, but once it's a corpse it's an object and thus unaffected by the effect (so you couldn't cook the chicken).

Now granted, that's not to say magical effects like Wall of Fire couldn't have a variant researched to also affect objects. (The Relicguard Spell metamagic feat comes in handy then).

[TuggyNE]

I am very interested in a source if that would be at all possible.

Skip doesn't say where he got it, but here's a semi-official source (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040706a). Curmudgeon has some fairly sound reasoning on why that would apply in the absence of RAW text, and Nedz has some calculations that indicate Skip's numbers are approximately correct.


Maybe I'm just not understanding the Smashing an Object (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm) rules but...

A Wall of Fire (or an energy-substituted Wall of Fire) doesn't affect objects, does it?

I can't tell whether or not you're understanding the Smashing an Object rules properly ("Electricity and fire attacks deal half damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 2 before applying the hardness", if you were wondering), but you are technically correct (the best kind of correct!) about wall of fire. That said, it would be the easiest thing in the world to research a custom spell that works like wall of fire except that it (only) affects objects. A bit further afield, research a long-lasting area version of heat/chill metal.

[Yahzi]

Computers and the internet can be replicated (and improved) using animated objects, messaging magic, illusions and a language (draconic works well).
Actually, no. The strength of a computer is that it is a general-purpose problem solving machine. D&D magic is much, much more rigid than engineering.

The Tippyverse would be both better than our world, and also worse in odd and aggravating ways. The people living there wouldn't notice, though, anymore than we notice the limitations of our world.

[Emperor Tippy]

Actually, no. The strength of a computer is that it is a general-purpose problem solving machine. D&D magic is much, much more rigid than engineering.

You can make computers within the 3.5 RAW, complete with internet. It's a royal pain in the ass but you can do it.

[Hamste]

You can do it in vanilla minecraft as well. It's just a series of yeses or noes that blend together to create what we call a computer.

[Gemini476]

Actually, no. The strength of a computer is that it is a general-purpose problem solving machine. D&D magic is much, much more rigid than engineering.

The Tippyverse would be both better than our world, and also worse in odd and aggravating ways. The people living there wouldn't notice, though, anymore than we notice the limitations of our world.


You can make computers within the 3.5 RAW, complete with internet. It's a royal pain in the ass but you can do it.

For a way to making computers in D&D, you honestly just need to look at using skeletons as logic gates. Deep Rot is a huge and cumbersome method, but combining it with a negative energy, fast time trait plane makes everything go so much faster.

As for the internet, the only version I've heard of is someone's campaign where the GM had some evil cultists that had some enchantment that made it so that if one was hurt his partner felt it, no matter the distance. I do believe that the PCs started a pain telegraph, with discussions in the thread of combining it with Deep Rot for a painternet, but I could be remembering it wrong.

As for a RAW method of making the Internet, I honestly don't have a clue.

[evisiron]

L
One of our characters has a Major Artifact, ring of terraforming, which we are using to dig grooves in the earth from the nearby sea for irrigation so that we can feed the hundreds and thousands of ex-slaves the orc has freed (he was sold into slavitude as a child, and is on a world-wide campaign to kill all slaves),


Sorry for off topic, but what alignment is that barbarian?!
It might be a typo from slavers, but I can't shake the idea of a character bursting into a BBEG lair and doing nothing but killing all the slaves, then escaping into the night...

On topic, how possible would it be to get a space program working, and travel to other planets?

[Kioras]

On topic, how possible would it be to get a space program working, and travel to other planets?

Space travel would not be too hard, with greater teleport breaking the speed of light, no range limit.

Once you get into orbit, and create a space station, easy enough to create giant greater teleport ring gates to different planets in the solar system, or even a huge portal system.

Most of the hazards of space flight can be solved by low level spells anyways.

Magic and teleportation, and using magic to teraform would change the space program significantly, it would less be about using brute force rockets to put people into space, and more about using teleports to go directly to another planet to start working.

[John Longarrow]

evisiron,

Fly to begin with. No maximum altitude.

Some tricks I've used for a previous game were to use effigy dragons for long range travel. Each dragon had a doorway that would unfold underneath (contructs) and a magnificent mansion spell. Means you can fly a very long distance with massive cargo capacity.

I've also used major image coupled with scrying to broadcast live events from theaters/arenas.

A lot of businesses (especially inns) have a permanent prestidigitation doorway that people walk through to get cleaned up/dried off. Works better than dry cleaning.

Continual flame street lamps is probably a given for bigger cities.

[NeoPhoenix0]

Skip doesn't say where he got it, but here's a semi-official source (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040706a). Curmudgeon has some fairly sound reasoning on why that would apply in the absence of RAW text, and Nedz has some calculations that indicate Skip's numbers are approximately correct.

In that case this engine is the single most useful magical mechanical device ever, and will be the single source of mechanical power if a tippy-verse reaches an industrial revolution.

Also the rules Curmudgeon pointed out have very worrying consequences.

[Radar]

A Permanent Prismatic Sphere can remove from existence any physical matter that hits it. Put one in the sewers that all waste drains into and you are good to go.
I find it more interesting to route the sewege into a Fabricate trap with a nano-tech operator (for ludicrous skill checks). After all, sewege contains loads of precious materials, which could be extracted and turned back into usable goods - it's just very difficult and costly to do with mundane means. Granted, it's hardly necessary, but would make for a more enviromental-friendly magitech.

One of the more difficult things to replicate is a Turing-complete machine. I remember something about Contingency-based computer, but I can't recall any details.

[WebTiefling]

Fly to begin with. No maximum altitude.
Fly is too slow to be useful beyond a few hundred miles. Fly is 60' per round, and that is just under 7 miles per hour. Low Earth Orbit is 1200 miles, so it would take around 177 hours to fly up there. (just over a week, one way)

{begin rant} Flight speeds!!! Argh!! Example: an Eagle in D&D flies at 80' per round. That's only 9 mph. In reality, they typically fly around 40 mph. That would be a D&D fly speed of 350!{end rant}


Continual flame street lamps is probably a given for bigger cities.

As long as they do it with an SLA. Otherwise it's 50 gp per light, which gets pricey if a big city wants 10,000 lights for its streets. :smallbiggrin:

[Gemini476]

I find it more interesting to route the sewege into a Fabricate trap with a nano-tech operator (for ludicrous skill checks). After all, sewege contains loads of precious materials, which could be extracted and turned back into usable goods - it's just very difficult and costly to do with mundane means. Granted, it's hardly necessary, but would make for a more enviromental-friendly magitech.

One of the more difficult things to replicate is a Turing-complete machine. I remember something about Contingency-based computer, but I can't recall any details.

Again, skeletons.

A skeleton does only what it
is ordered to do. It can draw no
conclusions of its own and takes no
initiative. Because of this limitation,
its instructions must always be
simple, such as “Kill anyone
who enters this chamber.”
What if you give if the instruction "if that other skeleton over there lifts his hand, lift your hand, else don't", or "if both of those skeletons lift their hands, lift your hand"?
Logic gates!

If you want something more economical for your aspiring dread Lich-Tech, there's a form of undead that is basically animated left hands. I don't recall what book they're in, but still. Grab a pixie and give it a ring of regeneration, and hey presto! Miniaturization!

Unfortunatly, your necroputer can only do one calculation each round, although that's regardless of distance in a similar fashion to the Commoner Railgun. If you want to increase the speed, stick the entire ensemble in a Demiplane with the Fast Time Trait. You may need to layer them if you try this in Pathfinder, where Create Demiplane is a lot weaker.

For maintenence, you may want to flood your entire system with negative energy: it heals and repairs the skeletons while also harming those pesky adventurers!

If you absolutely want a display screen, don't worry. Have a field of skeletons, each one holding a colored plate. If it gets the appropriate signal, the skeleton lifts the plate. Use a crystal ball of Scrying or something similar to view your 1600'x1000' black-white monitor (a resolution of 320px x 200px), and marvel at your arcane ingenuity!

And now you know why the Lich is ravaging the countryside, slaughtering the peasantry and raising an army of the dead: to share pictures of skeletal cats with his lich-buddies.

[Chronos]

Quoth WebTiefling:

{begin rant} Flight speeds!!! Argh!! Example: an Eagle in D&D flies at 80' per round. That's only 9 mph. In reality, they typically fly around 40 mph. That would be a D&D fly speed of 350!{end rant}
No, 40 MPH is a fly speed of 88. You're really upset about a 10% discrepancy?

I think you're under the misconception that a creature can only move up to its speed in a round. That's only the limit if you're trying to attack in the same round, while also moving cautiously enough to avoid the attacks of others. If you're just trying to move and don't care about the rest of that, you use the Run action.

[JW86]

Sorry for off topic, but what alignment is that barbarian?!
It might be a typo from slavers, but I can't shake the idea of a character bursting into a BBEG lair and doing nothing but killing all the slaves, then escaping into the night...?

TeeHee.

That post made him sound overly-altruistic.

The Orc, Zakulnar, is chaotic neutral... he is also in a group of mainly good characters, one of which is an incredibly charismatic bard who is appointed chief advisor, and is constantly convincing the stupid orc to do good in his new position. He often needs the other characters to lecture him at length about the decisions he makes.

The character hates slavers, having been a slave as a child, and is generally freeing slaves from bondage... BUT... there is also an undercurrent of disregard at times. His primary tactic for sensing traps during the invasion was to intimidate the hordes of his new freedmen into haphazardly charging into dangerous areas, using their agonised screams and bloodied corpses as sufficient indication that there was probably a trap there the expert rogue should take out.

The character has, as a houserule, a never-ending rage so long as he is in the presence of slavers. If he is in the presence of slavers, he MUST charge headlong into combat, no matter the situation. Makes for funny roleplay.

As soon as discovering a freeing several hundred orc slaves kept underground, he immediately pushed them to the front and intimidated them into doing his dirty work.

So he's not all good :smallwink:

And hey.. what comes around goes around.. victims become perpetrators.. :smallamused:

[WebTiefling]

No, 40 MPH is a fly speed of 88. ... you use the Run action.

I had forgotten "running" for faster speed. So, flight speed 60 is actually 27 mph when the D&D eagle is flying its fastest.

That still doesn't fix it, though. The eagle's casual flight speed IRL is around 40 mph, but it can get up to 80 mph when it starts really booking it. That's close enough that it's not absurd, though. Wildly inaccurate, but not totally absurd.

Fly spell, though - that's stuck at a flat 7 mph, 3.5 mph going up, and 14 mph going down. Only 2/3 of that speed if it's carrying a medium or heavy load.

Seems like teleporting is the only way to go for long distances.

[WebTiefling]

Forget the Weather Channel. A Control Weather spell would take care of that.

Of course, I have zero confidence that beings would utilize the spell responsibly. Droughts, flooding, etc.

[John Longarrow]

I had forgotten "running" for faster speed. So, flight speed 60 is actually 27 mph when the D&D eagle is flying its fastest.

That still doesn't fix it, though. The eagle's casual flight speed IRL is around 40 mph, but it can get up to 80 mph when it starts really booking it. That's close enough that it's not absurd, though. Wildly inaccurate, but not totally absurd.

IIRC, dive is double speed. They can also just stop flying and drop (falling) and catch themselves (resume flight) for the really fast dives eagles can do.

[WebTiefling]

IIRC, dive is double speed. They can also just stop flying and drop (falling) and catch themselves (resume flight) for the really fast dives eagles can do.

The eagles flying at 80 mph max speed is horizontal, not diving. Diving gets them up to almost 100 mph.

[John Longarrow]

A type of item I've home brewed are backpacks with, effectively, partial castings of Floating Disk on them. Normal 1st level casting will hold 100lbs and cost 2,000 on a backpack. I let this get divided out in 10lbs incraments spread over masterwork backpacks.

This lets you get a masterwork backpack (about 50gp) that can negate 10 lbs of weight per 200 gp invested.

Not bad for small characters when you 250gp backpack increases your load by 10lbs and a 450gp backpack increases it by 20. Yes, really low end item that is most useful at levels 1-3, but they more or less replicate the rolling luggage you can get today.

[NeoPhoenix0]

The eagles flying at 80 mph max speed is horizontal, not diving. Diving gets them up to almost 100 mph.

Actually, from what I can find, an eagle's max horizontal speed is around 35-45 mph. ~80 mph is it's dive speed.

[WebTiefling]

Wikipedia List of birds by flight speed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_birds_by_flight_speed)

Eagle's max horizontal flight speed is 80 mph.

Reference: Kari Kirschbaum and Alicia Ivory (2002). "Aquila chrysaetosgolden eagle". The Animal Diversity Web. University of Michigan Museum of Zoology. Retrieved 14 May 2013.

[NeoPhoenix0]

Wikipedia List of birds by flight speed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_birds_by_flight_speed)

Eagle's max horizontal flight speed is 80 mph.

Reference: Kari Kirschbaum and Alicia Ivory (2002). "Aquila chrysaetosgolden eagle". The Animal Diversity Web. University of Michigan Museum of Zoology. Retrieved 14 May 2013.

Oooooh, you meant golden eagles. I was looking at bald eagles. A big problem here is the variety of eagles. many with slower and faster flight speeds.

Edit: When I think eagle, I think bald eagle because we have quite a few around where I live.

[DruidAlanon]

Undead could be used for almost everything. Building, digging, carrying, etc.

Free taxes, free workers, free cleaners, etc.

Also, permanent lighting in the streets could be available, even "free" army after the dead of the real soldiers.

[TuggyNE]

Fly is too slow to be useful beyond a few hundred miles. Fly is 60' per round, and that is just under 7 miles per hour. Low Earth Orbit is 1200 miles, so it would take around 177 hours to fly up there. (just over a week, one way)

No, LEO is defined as less than 1200 miles; the Shuttle used to orbit at around 200-385 miles, and space officially starts just 60 miles up. Upshot is you're technically in space after less than 10 hours of flying.

[Ninja_Grand]

If someone can fully make a Skelly computer thread that be nice.

Create water traps for baths!

Also, lota off topic. May want to make other threads. Dont want this to be locked.

[Phelix-Mu]

No, LEO is defined as less than 1200 miles; the Shuttle used to orbit at around 200-385 miles, and space officially starts just 60 miles up. Upshot is you're technically in space after less than 10 hours of flying.

And yet, this is an area where there is little basis to know if a given game world will share a similar atmospheric structure to real life. The game gives little evidence either way, so it's pretty much in the DM's hands where and when the border can be found, and what the ramifications are for the rules. Spelljammer stuff might have info, but I don't even know if anything official for that setting came out for 3.5.

[Emperor Tippy]

You get to space in D&D with the Teleport line. Six seconds to orbit (especially if your DM doesn't have a problem with directions like "straight up a thousand miles").

If you want to fly then use a Phantom Steed.

Or Shapechange into a Shadesteel Golem and then just run straight up, no Fort saves required as you are a construct and a 90 foot perfect fly speed means you travel straight up at 41 miles per hour.

[gooddragon1]

You get to space in D&D with the Teleport line. Six seconds to orbit (especially if your DM doesn't have a problem with directions like "straight up a thousand miles").

If you want to fly then use a Phantom Steed.

Or Shapechange into a Shadesteel Golem and then just run straight up, no Fort saves required as you are a construct and a 90 foot perfect fly speed means you travel straight up at 41 miles per hour.

Out of curiousity how would a moon base work? Teleportation Circle?

[Emperor Tippy]

Out of curiousity how would a moon base work? Teleportation Circle?

Or Greater Teleport. Or Wish.

Or a dual plane shift, that will get you within 500 miles.

There are a number of more exotic and less common methods as well.

[Sith_Happens]

I can't tell whether or not you're understanding the Smashing an Object rules properly ("Electricity and fire attacks deal half damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 2 before applying the hardness", if you were wondering), but you are technically correct (the best kind of correct!) about wall of fire. That said, it would be the easiest thing in the world to research a custom spell that works like wall of fire except that it (only) affects objects. A bit further afield, research a long-lasting area version of heat/chill metal.

Darsson's Fiery Furnace and Darsson's Chilling Chamber (Shining South) set the ambient temperature in up to a 10 ft cube/level to extreme heat (140oF or above) and extreme cold (-20oF or below), respectively, and can both be made Permanent.


Or Greater Teleport. Or Wish.

Or a dual plane shift, that will get you within 500 miles.

There are a number of more exotic and less common methods as well.

And once you're up there, Fabricate makes asteroid mining easy.:smallcool:

[TuggyNE]

Darsson's Fiery Furnace and Darsson's Chilling Chamber (Shining South) set the ambient temperature in up to a 10 ft cube/level to extreme heat (140oF or above) and extreme cold (-20oF or below), respectively, and can both be made Permanent.

I'd forgotten about those! Awesome.

[Kioras]

Or Greater Teleport. Or Wish.

Or a dual plane shift, that will get you within 500 miles.

There are a number of more exotic and less common methods as well.

Only question I have is if in a Tippyverse world, is there much drive for a group of wizards to do space exploration, since they are in a post scarcity society powered by turn key wish machines.

I imagine if there is a drive for space exploration, once they got the basic problems resolved with space travel, we could see large asteroids serving as space stations in orbit, at a Geostationary orbit. Magic has a large advantage through the use of teleportation circles and greater teleport to unfailingly move large amounts of goods, to orbit without the headaches we have in the current day.

Getting to another planet would not be too hard, and once they get there they could start terraforming easily enough, especially since magic has the ability to instantly create water, and any such item would not be too expensive.

The only issue would be the first question, is that is there much need or desirer to do so in a post-scarcity society.

[Radar]

The only issue would be the first question, is that is there much need or desirer to do so in a post-scarcity society.
Well, it really depends on the setting you choose. For example, Star Trek's Federation is a post-scarcity society with a vast interest in exploration.

[NeoPhoenix0]

The only issue would be the first question, is that is there much need or desirer to do so in a post-scarcity society.

One thing wizards are known for post-scarcity or not is a curiosity large enough to get a deity killed.

[Emperor Tippy]

Only question I have is if in a Tippyverse world, is there much drive for a group of wizards to do space exploration, since they are in a post scarcity society powered by turn key wish machines.


Because they want to, and because it increases the costs of attack.

It also makes the odds of you dieing if the world blows up significantly lower.

And it's cool/new/interesting.

[Red Rubber Band]

Do you have an atmospheric generator? Or some way to create an ozone?

And possibly a link for that skeleton computer?

You've also got photostatic rock for CCTV. Here's another discussion on the MinMax Boards (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6793.0).

[DeAnno]

You can make computers within the 3.5 RAW, complete with internet. It's a royal pain in the ass but you can do it.

To be fair its probably more of a pain in the ass to make a computer from scratch with tech than it is with magic. :smallsmile:

[NeoPhoenix0]

Do you have an atmospheric generator? Or some way to create an ozone?

Yes, greater teleport or teleport circle. Air is weightless because it is perfectly boyant so you can carry as much of it as you want.

[Gemini476]

Do you have an atmospheric generator? Or some way to create an ozone?

And possibly a link for that skeleton computer?

You've also got photostatic rock for CCTV. Here's another discussion on the MinMax Boards (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6793.0).

Deep Rot? Can't link that here, sorry. I'm fairly certain that linking to an archived thread from /tg/ (that's 4chan's Traditional Games board) would be a bad idea for my continued presence on this site.

I'll PM it to you if you're still interested. I don't remember the threads themselves being NSFW, beyond being from 4chan that is, but they do link to the less wholesome boards in the header.

[Kioras]

Because they want to, and because it increases the costs of attack.

It also makes the odds of you dieing if the world blows up significantly lower.

And it's cool/new/interesting.

I guess trying to attack a huge city based in an planetoid orbiting at ~50000 miles from the ground, and the only way to get there is a protected teleportation gate/circle does increase security a little bit.

Not to mention if there is a wraithpocalypse or some other sort of classic D&D end of the world scenario you would be in a good spot to avoid fallout completely. Not to mention if someone goes to war you always have the option to do a Halo drop with feather fall the last 10'. (I get the picture of a bunch of golems dropping in like mechs and slowing instandly from terminal velociy to safely land )

[Slide]

Not to mention if someone goes to war you always have the option to do a Halo drop with feather fall the last 10'. (I get the picture of a bunch of golems dropping in like mechs and slowing instandly from terminal velociy to safely land )

That's something that's always bugged me about Feather Fall rings. They're activated any time the wearer falls more than 5 feet, CL 1. That's 60 feet of protection, followed by "Sorry, contingency already triggered, you're in free fall now", right?

I'd *much* rather have my ring activate any time I'm 15 feet above the ground. That's the part that's going to hurt.

[NNescio]

The eagles flying at 80 mph max speed is horizontal, not diving. Diving gets them up to almost 100 mph.

Actually, from what I can find, an eagle's max horizontal speed is around 35-45 mph. ~80 mph is it's dive speed.

Wikipedia List of birds by flight speed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_birds_by_flight_speed)

Eagle's max horizontal flight speed is 80 mph.

Reference: Kari Kirschbaum and Alicia Ivory (2002). "Aquila chrysaetosgolden eagle". The Animal Diversity Web. University of Michigan Museum of Zoology. Retrieved 14 May 2013.

Oooooh, you meant golden eagles. I was looking at bald eagles. A big problem here is the variety of eagles. many with slower and faster flight speeds.

Edit: When I think eagle, I think bald eagle because we have quite a few around where I live.

"What... is the air-speed velocity of an unladen eagle?"

"What do you mean? A golden eagle or a bald eagle?

"Huh? I-- I don't know that! Auuuuuuuugh!"

[Kioras]

That's something that's always bugged me about Feather Fall rings. They're activated any time the wearer falls more than 5 feet, CL 1. That's 60 feet of protection, followed by "Sorry, contingency already triggered, you're in free fall now", right?

I'd *much* rather have my ring activate any time I'm 15 feet above the ground. That's the part that's going to hurt.

Who says you are using feather fall rings? Maybe it is a rune(from a runecaster) of CL 4 or 8 feather fall that you activate by touching it at a certain point? Instead of pulling a rip cord, you just touch the rune :D