Illithid's partially failed ceremorphosis + succesful laethen = ?

[ShurikVch]

From article in the Wikipedia:
Partially failed ceremorphosis

Occasionally, ceremorphosis can partially fail. Sometimes the larva does not contain enough chemicals to complete the process, sometimes there is psionic interference. Whatever the reason, it has happened that ceremorphosis has ended after the internal restructuring, resulting in a human body with an illithid's brain, personality and digestive tract. These unfortunates must still consume brains, typically by cutting open heads (as they lack the requisite tentacles). These beings are often used as spies, where they easily blend in with their respective host types.
Laethen
Wakeman, an enterprising trader and scholar of Underdark exotica, allowed himself to be captured by the illithids on one of his expeditions. Through the use of a non-magical mixture of various herbs that Wakeman named laethen, he was able to preserve his consciousness through ceremorphosis, and learned to use his psionic powers to keep from having to consume brains. Thus he worked against the illithid plots from within. The legend of the Adversary was born from his frequent sabotage, though the actual acts were never connected to him. The players' characters in the adventure become his agents in stopping the illithids' plans, as his own movements rely upon secrecy from his "fellow" illithids.

For another person to imitate Wakeman's deed would require at least one dose of laethen (the making of which Wakeman kept secret) and to be put under ceremorphosis within a week of consumption. The drug only has a 40% chance of success, and the new illithid must also never consume a brain, for the act destroys the host's personality and replaces it with the illithid personality.

So, let's assuming ceremorphosis partially failed, laethen worked as advertised, what will be the resulting creature? And what will be the number of LA for it?

Also, what if this particular ceremorphosis was supposed to produce Ulitharid, but somehow partially failed?

[Fax Celestis]

Well, there's the half-illithid template in...Fiend Folio, I think? that covers failed ceremorphosis.

[hamishspence]

Underdark has a more inclusive version of the template (inherited template: any corporeal creature that is not a construct) that allows most creatures. However it also says that:

"Most often, such progeny are formed through magical tampering with the reproductive process of the host creature, rather than through direct mating."

So it's not clear if ceremorphosis is involved.

Lords of Madness mentions that ropers are one of the few cases where the implantation can succeed in a non-humanoid, and the "only known case of tadpole implantation succeeding in a cold-blooded creature" - turning it into a urophion.

It also states that they never use reptilians.

(Fiend Folio, by contrast, has a half-illithid lizard folk).

And Stormwrack tells us what happens when you try and implant a tadpole in a chuul:

"The experience invariably slays the tadpole, but not before it reduces the creature to a slimy mockery of its former existence"

turning it into a uchuulon, or slime chuul.

[ShurikVch]

Well, there's the half-illithid template in...Fiend Folio, I think? that covers failed ceremorphosis.
AFAIK, Fiend Folio's half-illithid was a result of non-human ceremorphosis.
Partially failed ceremorphosis is different. On outside this creature looks just like ordinary human (no tentacles). But on inside it's illithid, have psionics, and need to eat brains.

[Fax Celestis]

Then you might want to look at the Thoon Thralls in MM-V.

[ShurikVch]

And what about stats?
As standard illithid minus tentacles, improved grab and extract?

[Segev]

I have to wonder if the partially-failed cerebromorphosis illithids can take the Illithid Heritage feats. Mechanically, nothing is stopping them; they'd need either Wild Talent, a house rule that their race gives them pp, or a level of Psion, but they could definitely take the feats.

Given that they're likely the abused lower caste amongst illithids, I wouldn't be surprised if some did, were it possible.

[Phelix-Mu]

It would be kind of weird to not have brain-eating apparatus, yet still need to eat brains. The whole deal with the apparatus is that the victim is still alive. It would require lots of work otherwise to have a stunned person and somehow extract the brain for consumption without killing him/her.

Or, at least I'm having trouble picturing that.

[Fax Celestis]

It would be kind of weird to not have brain-eating apparatus, yet still need to eat brains. The whole deal with the apparatus is that the victim is still alive. It would require lots of work otherwise to have a stunned person and somehow extract the brain for consumption without killing him/her.

Or, at least I'm having trouble picturing that.

https://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/fightclub_brain.jpg

[hamishspence]

AFAIK, Fiend Folio's half-illithid was a result of non-human ceremorphosis.

Yup- though Lords of Madness mentions that a few other humanoids besides humans will produce a completely normal mind-flayer rather than a half-illithid.

[Urpriest]

It would be kind of weird to not have brain-eating apparatus, yet still need to eat brains. The whole deal with the apparatus is that the victim is still alive. It would require lots of work otherwise to have a stunned person and somehow extract the brain for consumption without killing him/her.

Or, at least I'm having trouble picturing that.

Eh, Hannibal Lecter managed it once.

[Phelix-Mu]

Eh, Hannibal Lecter managed it once.

Hmm. I guess it's not impossible to pull off, but could be rough depending on how often one needs to eat.

And since I haven't read all of Lords of Madness, but some of you probably have (at least the illithids bit), exactly how often do illithids need to consume a brain? I imagine it's not like a normal appetite, and they could probably eat brains all day if not for a troubling issue with supply, but what is the longest period they can go without a little bit of grey matter to whet their palates?

[unseenmage]

Hmm. I guess it's not impossible to pull off, but could be rough depending on how often one needs to eat.

And since I haven't read all of Lords of Madness, but some of you probably have (at least the illithids bit), exactly how often do illithids need to consume a brain? I imagine it's not like a normal appetite, and they could probably eat brains all day if not for a troubling issue with supply, but what is the longest period they can go without a little bit of grey matter to whet their palates?

Without a citation on specific illithid feeding patterns one assumes they starve to death at the same rate as any other creature in the game.

[Segev]

I think they can subsist on roughly 1 brain per week, but it's been a long while since I checked and I'm AFB at the moment.

[Zombulian]

Hmm. I guess it's not impossible to pull off, but could be rough depending on how often one needs to eat.

And since I haven't read all of Lords of Madness, but some of you probably have (at least the illithids bit), exactly how often do illithids need to consume a brain? I imagine it's not like a normal appetite, and they could probably eat brains all day if not for a troubling issue with supply, but what is the longest period they can go without a little bit of grey matter to whet their palates?

Yeah they don't only eat brains actually, which was pretty interesting for me to learn. They have generally balanced diets that they supplement with about a brain per week. But I think they can go for something like a month without a brain to eat before things start to go fatal for them.

[gurgleflep]

Yeah they don't only eat brains actually, which was pretty interesting for me to learn. They have generally balanced diets that they supplement with about a brain per week. But I think they can go for something like a month without a brain to eat before things start to go fatal for them.

Seriously?! :smallconfused::smallbiggrin: You've gotta tell me (please :smallsmile::smallwink:) where you found this `cause I've not read it anywhere and that could help me (both as a player and a DM) a fair bit.

[Zombulian]

Seriously?! :smallconfused::smallbiggrin: You've gotta tell me (please :smallsmile::smallwink:) where you found this `cause I've not read it anywhere and that could help me a fair bit.

Lords of Madness I'm pretty sure.

[gurgleflep]

Lords of Madness I'm pretty sure.

Well then I've got some reading to do; Thanks! :smallbiggrin:

[mattie_p]

Lords of Madness I'm pretty sure.

More specifically, on page 74. Header "Mindflayer Goals," subheader "The flow of fresh brains."

[Chronos]

So, if laethan works, it still turns you into a mind flayer with all of their abilities, but just leaves your free will and personality intact, is that correct? In that case, you get the LA of a mind flayer, too. You are a mind flayer, just one that's an exception to the "Always Lawful Evil".

[Fouredged Sword]

Yeah, basically you would end up with a non-evil illithid with a humanoid body who abused the sustenance power to avoid eating brains.

Take an illithid, remove all the abilities you would loose when casting alter self, and change the alignment. Then have it use it's innate psionic powers to avoid eating.

[unseenmage]

Yeah, basically you would end up with a non-evil illithid with a humanoid body who abused the sustenance power to avoid eating brains.

Take an illithid, remove all the abilities you would loose when casting alter self, and change the alignment. Then have it use it's innate psionic powers to avoid eating.

Seconding this. The simplest solution is often the correct one, especially when it involves homebrew.