Cool Non-Ranged Ranger/Similar Builds?

[QuintonBeck]

Hello Playground! So, I'm looking to start another campaign in a month or so and one of my players wants to play a solid Skill-Monkey (Focusing on Survival skills)/Melee Combatant so I figured Ranger fit the bill. However, he doesn't want to do archery but that means going down the Two-Weapon Fighting track doesn't it? And that's a dark path to tread I know.
So what can be done? Are their ACFs that make the Ranger fit this style more? (I know Mystic and Wildshape make it more powerful but I hope you can see that's not what the player is looking to focus on) What other classes might you suggest that fit this theme but were perhaps mechanically better? Any tips on building, the players are starting at Level 6 and will likely be moving towards 12 by the end of the campaign.
Thanks for any help! :D

[Dusk Eclipse]

There are some variant combat styles in Dragon magazine, he could go swift hunter (multiclass scout/ranger with the feat of the same name) with the two-handing combat style and smack people around with a greatsword/axe/hammer, add in charging feats for extra hilarity

Add in the Trap Expert ACF from Dungeonscape (trades Track and swif tracker for Trapfinging as a rogue and adds disable device to his skill list) and he would be a really solid bruiser with lots of skill. Spell Compendium gives Rangers some nice spell for extra utility.

[Piggy Knowles]

Hmm... maybe Ranger 2/Warblade 3/Revenant Blade 1 would be a good start for a level 6 campaign?

Revenant Blade is from Player's Guide to Eberron. It's a five level ranger-themed elven class that focuses on the Valenar double-scimitar. It's decent in general - solid skill list, a floating feat from an OK list that you can change each day, gives you a solid boost to Hide/MS, stacks with some of your ranger abilities. The real kicker, though, is at level 5 when you pick up Legendary Force. This lets you treat each end of your double-scimitar as a two-handed weapon. That means you get 1.5x Str bonus on attacks, and more importantly, 2-to-1 Power Attack returns.

You can then finish the build with ten levels of Eternal Blade from Tome of Battle, so the final cut would be Ranger 2/Warblade 3/Revenant Blade 5/Eternal Blade 10. That would let you end up with 8th-level maneuvers, and the absolutely fantastic Island in Time ability that lets you take your turn as an immediate action. However, Eternal Blade is low on the skill points side of things, so if that's important to you, you may want to choose another PrC to finish things off.

[Phelix-Mu]

Melee skirmish scout was something I tinkered with a bit some time ago. Not too bad, and definitely a better skill-monkey feel than ranger. I believe the key was a weapon with nice reach and a bunch of tumbling around. Certainly not an optimized concept, though.

Feat rogue is an interesting choice. I believe there is also an ACF for a wild rogue with more survival-oriented skills.

Finally, you can probably shop for/homebrew a variant of Soulknife that would fit the bill. Soulknife itself needs a few tweaks to be up to snuff, but in a low-op game, you could possibly just allow a few survival-type additions to the skill list, and then be ready to go. All the players that I've had that played Soulknife really loved the flavor (granted that was only two, and the game was low-op).:smallwink:

Good luck.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Wilderness Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogueVariantWilderness Rogue) would work, possibly combined with Feat Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogue) if you don't like sneak attack (but remember those still aren't Fighter levels and won't qualify you for Weapon Specialization or similar). Maybe even swap the 2nd and 6th level Fighter bonus feats for Dungeoncrasher in Dungeonscape if your DM will allow chaining alternate class features. Don't forget about that Rogue 20 special ability (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a). Wilderness Rogue actually allows you to get Hide in Plain Sight without multiclassing.

Pick up Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) for an animal companion. Maybe use a +0 LA Aasimar or Tiefling (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) (and never spend a level (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a) on the rest of its abilities) for the Outsider creature type which grants proficiency in all martial weapons (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#outsiderType), as well as shields if you have a class that grants proficiency in any type of armor at all.

[SciChronic]

Hello Playground! So, I'm looking to start another campaign in a month or so and one of my players wants to play a solid Skill-Monkey (Focusing on Survival skills)/Melee Combatant so I figured Ranger fit the bill. However, he doesn't want to do archery but that means going down the Two-Weapon Fighting track doesn't it? And that's a dark path to tread I know.
So what can be done? Are their ACFs that make the Ranger fit this style more? (I know Mystic and Wildshape make it more powerful but I hope you can see that's not what the player is looking to focus on) What other classes might you suggest that fit this theme but were perhaps mechanically better? Any tips on building, the players are starting at Level 6 and will likely be moving towards 12 by the end of the campaign.
Thanks for any help! :D

Well, tbh, TWF ranger isnt terrible, its actually one of the better classes after swordsage and rogue. A dip into Swashbuckler might not be terrible, free weapon finesse along with int to dmg, which should be descent since he's a skill monkey. Shadow Hand from ToB would be a good choice as well.

i would probably do something like Ranger 2/ Rogue (or scout) 1 (simply for trapfinding)/ Swordsage 3

if he wants to be a skillmonkey w/ melee, may i suggest Factotum from Dungeonscape? they are one of the best skillmonkeys in 3.5

[Phelix-Mu]

Wilderness Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogueVariantWilderness Rogue) would work, possibly combined with Feat Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogue) if you don't like sneak attack (but remember those still aren't Fighter levels and won't qualify you for Weapon Specialization or similar). Maybe even swap the 2nd and 6th level Fighter bonus feats for Dungeoncrasher in Dungeonscape if your DM will allow chaining alternate class features. Don't forget about that Rogue 20 special ability (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a). Wilderness Rogue actually allows you to get Hide in Plain Sight without multiclassing.

Pick up Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) for an animal companion. Maybe use a +0 LA Aasimar or Tiefling (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) (and never spend a level (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a) on the rest of its abilities) for the Outsider creature type which grants proficiency in all martial weapons (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#outsiderType), as well as shields if you have a class that grants proficiency in any type of armor at all.

I consistently like what you say, Biffoniacus. This is a solid concept, and gives me some nice ideas for a couple of NPCs that need to be a little bit more up to the party's op-level than simple "ranger 4."

[QuintonBeck]

I'm liking the idea of a Ranger/Scout hybrid but what if I wanted to add in some ToB? Is it a good idea, bad idea? If There was some maneuver access what disciplines would do well for such a build?

[SciChronic]

The Tiger Claw discipline has a lot of maneuvers that would benefit TWF. You'd want to dip swordsage if anything, as the class offers a good amount of skills.

If you're going to TWF, i'm going to suggest the feat High Sword Low Axe to offer a good amount of control on the battlefield.

[Dusk Eclipse]

There is the (homebrewed) sublime ranger by Radical Taoist (IIRC) which trades spells for maneuvers as a warblade (known and readied). It can select maneuvers from three schools (slected at character creation) out of the following, Shooting star (homebrewed archery discipline), tiger claw, shadow hand, iron heart, devoted spirit or desert wind.

[Captnq]

Well, nothing wrong with TWF is you have alternate sources of damage. It's a bit of work to stay ahead of the power attack curve, but not impossible. With TWF you need to boost your base damage (Str) and get as many attacks as possible. Cleave, AoO Feats, Haste, Off-Hand Haste, Fake Flurry of blows. Poison also does wonders to level the playing field.

Here, take a gander at my Weapon Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9053.msg183871#msg183871). Specifically the extrapolated weapon special ability section. For most TWFs, it's all about the equipment.

[Darrin]

Some Swift Hunter builds you might want to consider:

TWF 10d6 Skirmish: There are a few PrCs that can advance skirmish damage faster than Scout/Ranger. This build uses Dragon Devotee 4/Unseen Seer 4 + Improved Skirmish to get up to 10d6 skirmish damage, roughly on par with Rogue 20's 10d6 sneak attack. It also gets 6th level Sorcerer casting, which adds a little more "gish" flavor.

Race: Human, Azurin, Strongheart Halfing, Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc
1) Ranger 1. Feat: Travel Devotion, Bonus: Combat Reflexes, Bonus: Track
2) Ranger 2. Bonus: TWF
3) Scout 1. Feat: Travel Devotion (x2). Skirmish 1d6
4) Scout 2. Skirmish 1d6.
5) Scout 3. Skirmish 1d6AC+1
6) Scout 4. Feat: Swift Hunter. Bonus: Improved Skirmish. Skirmish 2d6AC+1/4d6AC+3.
7) Dragon Devotee 1.
8) Dragon Devotee 2. Skirmish 3d6AC+1/5d6AC+3
9) Dragon Devotee 3. Feat: Improved TWF. 1st level Sorcerer casting (get at least 2 divination spells)
10) Dragon Devotee 4. Skirmish 4d6AC+1/6d6AC+3
11) Unseen Seer 1. Skirmish 5d6AC+1/7d6AC+3
12) Unseen Seer 2. Feat: Double Hit (Miniatures Handbook). Advanced Learning: Hunter's Eye (PHBII)
13) Unseen Seer 3.
14) Unseen Seer 4. Skirmish 6d6AC+1/8d6AC+3
15) Highland Stalker 1. Feat: Robilar’s Gambit (PHBII).
16) Highland Stalker 2. Skirmish 7d6AC+1/9d6AC+3
17) Ranger 3. Bonus: Endurance. Skirmish 7d6AC+2/9d6AC+4
18) Ranger 4. Feat: Greater TWF or Travel Devotion (x3).
19) Ranger 5. Skirmish 8d6AC+2/10d6AC+4
20) Spellsword 1.


TWF Pounce: This build uses everyone's favorite Barbarian dip + Travel Devotion + Leap Attack to do what the two-handed Uberchargers are doing but, well... makes it... look cooler.

Race: Human, Azurin, Strongheart Halfing, or Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc
1) Ranger 1. Feat: Travel Devotion, Bonus: Combat Reflexes, Bonus: Track
2) Ranger 2. Bonus: TWF
3) Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1. Feat: Travel Devotion (x2).
4) Scout 1. Skirmish 1d6.
5) Scout 2.
6) Scout 3. Feat: Swift Hunter. Skirmish 1d6AC+1.
7) Scout 4. Bonus: Improved Skirmish. Skirmish 2d6AC+1/4d6AC+3.
8) Ranger 3. Bonus: Endurance. Skirmish 2d6AC+2/4d6AC+4.
9) Ranger 4. Feat: Leap Attack.
10) Ranger 5. Skirmish 3d6AC+2/5d6AC+4.
11) Ranger 6. Bonus: Imp. TWF
12) Highland Stalker 1. Feat: Double Hit (Miniatures Handbook).
13) Highland Stalker 2. Skirmish 4d6AC+2/6d6AC+4.
14) Ranger 7. Skirmish 4d6AC+3/6d6AC+5.
15) Ranger 8. Feat: Robilar's Gambit (PHBII).
16) Ranger 9. Skirmish 5d6AC+3/7d6AC+5.
17) Ranger 10.
18) Ranger 11. Feat: Travel Devotion (x3). Bonus: Gr. TWF. Skirmish 5d6AC+4/7d6AC+6.
19) Ranger 12.
20) Ranger 13. Camouflage. Skirmish 6d6AC+4/8d6AC+6.


TWF Dragonsplits: Dragonsplits are exotic weapons detailed on page 151 of MMIV. They're one-handed weapons, similar to shortswords, but they count as light weapons for the purposes of TWF and Weapon Finesse. For all other purposes, including Power Attack, they are treated as one-handed weapons, so we can use Exotic Weapon Master's Uncanny Blow to get a two-handed 2x damage multiplier. Now if we only knew how much they cost...

Race: Human, Azurin, Strongheart Halfing, Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc
1) Ranger 1. Feat: Travel Devotion, Bonus: EWP Dragonsplits, Bonus: Track
2) Ranger 2. Bonus: TWF
3) Scout 1. Feat: Weapon Focus. Skirmish 1d6
4) Scout 2. Skirmish 1d6.
5) Scout 3. Skirmish 1d6AC+1
6) Scout 4. Feat: Swift Hunter. Bonus: Improved Skirmish. Skirmish 2d6AC+1/4d6AC+3.
7) Ranger 3. Bonus: Endurance. Skirmish 2d6AC+2/4d6AC+4
8) Exotic Weapon Master 1. Uncanny Blow.
9) Ranger 4. Feat: Power Attack
10) Ranger 5. Skirmish 3d6AC+2/5d6AC+4
11) Ranger 6. Bonus: Imp. TWF
12) Highland Stalker 1. Feat: Combat Reflexes
13) Highland Stalker 2. Skirmish 4d6AC+2/6d6AC+4
14) Ranger 7. Skirmish 4d6AC+3/6d6AC+5
15) Ranger 8. Feat: Double Hit
16) Ranger 9. Skirmish 5d6AC+3/7d6AC+5
17) Ranger 10.
18) Ranger 11. Feat: Travel Devotion (x2). Bonus: Gr. TWF. Skirmish 6d6AC+4/8d6AC+6
19) Ranger 12.
20) Ranger 13. Skirmish 7d6AC+4/9d6AC+6


TWF Net-and-Trident: This build uses a weapon style feat to get a second 5' step after throwing a net, triggering Skirmish damage. It's a bit too tight on feats, though, so you have to use the Planar Ranger variant (Planar Handbook) to get Knowledge: the Planes 8, which allows you to take the Planar Touchstone feat and grab EWP:Net + WF:Net from the War domain power. If your character's religion might be a sticking point, you can choose to worship Istus (Living Greyhawk Deities 2.0), Sotillion (Living Greyhawk Deities 2.0), or Marduk (Sandstorm), all of whom have Favored Weapon: Net.

Race: Human, Azurin, Strongheart Halfing, Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc
1) Ranger 1. Feat: Travel Devotion, Bonus: Weapon Focus Trident, Bonus: Track
2) Ranger 2. Bonus: TWF
3) Scout 1. Feat: Quickdraw. Skirmish 1d6
4) Scout 2. Skirmish 1d6.
5) Scout 3. Skirmish 1d6AC+1
6) Scout 4. Feat: Swift Hunter. Bonus: Planar Touchstone -> War Domain (Net). Skirmish 2d6AC+1.
7) Ranger 3. Bonus: Endurance. Skirmish 2d6AC+2
8) Exotic Weapon Master 1. Close-Quarters Ranged Combat.
9) Ranger 4. Feat: Net and Trident Style
10) Ranger 5. Skirmish 3d6AC+2
11) Ranger 6. Bonus: Imp. TWF
12) Highland Stalker 1. Feat: Oversize TWF
13) Highland Stalker 2. Skirmish 4d6AC+2
14) Ranger 7. Skirmish 4d6AC+3
15) Ranger 8. Feat: Improved Skirmish
16) Ranger 9. Skirmish 5d6AC+3/7d6AC+5
17) Ranger 10.
18) Ranger 11. Feat: Travel Devotion (x2). Bonus: Gr. TWF. Skirmish 6d6AC+4/8d6AC+6
19) Ranger 12.
20) Ranger 13. Skirmish 7d6AC+4/9d6AC+6

[Dusk Eclipse]

Pretty cool builds Darrin, I really like the Dragonsplit one, but just a tiny nitpick
Shortswords are light weapon, not one-handed, perhaps you were meaning to say longsword?

[Darrin]

Pretty cool builds Darrin, I really like the Dragonsplit one, but just a tiny nitpick
Shortswords are light weapon, not one-handed, perhaps you were meaning to say longsword?

Not exactly... they have the same damage and crit range of shortswords (1d6 piercing, 19-20/x2) unless you use them as a slashing weapon, in which case they get a 20/x4 crit.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Ah I see, the way you worded seemed to imply that Shortswords were One-handed weapons though.

[Piggy Knowles]

I am absolutely in love with that net and trident build, I've got to say.

[Darrin]

I am absolutely in love with that net and trident build, I've got to say.

Haven't had a chance to play it yet. It's probably got some issues... for example, you need to keep dropping your offhand weapon to draw another net (unless you get a Glove of Storing/Master Strategist). Dragon Tail (maybe via Dragonborn of Bahumat) might help, but Oversize TWF comes in kinda late. Swapping in a level or two of Fighter instead of Highland Stalker would help get in more feats early on, but at the cost of 1d6 skirmish damage.