Agents of SHIELD

[Joran]

One of the odds things is that the former agent had this view of Agent Coulson as a hard ass. I've watched all the Marvel movies and I never really viewed him as the type of "I told you so, you should have listened to me" kind of person.

I don't notice much of a change of pre-death Coulson and post-death Coulson. Is that just me?

[navar100]

Huh? No one mentions yet Akela asking about what was done to Coulson to fuel the Tahiti mystery?

[snoopy13a]

Or, in a twisted Whedon-laced version of the hell of corny-ness. The final fight in Avengers 2 is a massive air/space battle with all the Iron Man suits and SHIELD fighters losing, when the Bus flies in with Coulsen and co. past Thor (with appropriate movie music of Ride of the Valkyrie) who then tells Fury he has the solution. Then Skye pulls a Macross Anime ending with the power of music and asian-pop sings the good guys to victory, destroys the bad guys will to fight, and the heads of all the viewers explode with the cheese.

/sarcasm off

So Skye is Minmay! Would that make Ward Rick Hunter? And I suppose Coulson would be Roy Fokker.



One of the odds things is that the former agent had this view of Agent Coulson as a hard ass. I've watched all the Marvel movies and I never really viewed him as the type of "I told you so, you should have listened to me" kind of person.

I don't notice much of a change of pre-death Coulson and post-death Coulson. Is that just me?

I took it as Coulson mellowing out before the movies began. Akela had been out of circulation for a long time.

[BRC]

One of the odds things is that the former agent had this view of Agent Coulson as a hard ass. I've watched all the Marvel movies and I never really viewed him as the type of "I told you so, you should have listened to me" kind of person.

I don't notice much of a change of pre-death Coulson and post-death Coulson. Is that just me?
Not in action, but certainly in temperment, although that could be a result of the different situation.

Coulson has always been pleasent and easygoing as we've seen him, but in the movies he was also always a consumate proffessional. He may have smiled at Tony and Pepper, but he still used security ovverides to essentially break into Stark Tower, he still had no trouble sending Hawkeye to bring down Thor.

Show Coulson seems much mellower, much more willing to bend or break rules. He put Agent Ward at risk to buy time for them to get the exploding eyeball out, he brought Skye onto the bus, ect. Before they were playing him as friendly agent of a vast intelligence network. Now he seems a lot more like a nice guy who happens to have the resources of a vast intelligence network at his disposal.

[LadyEowyn]

The interesting thing with Coulson's "death" is that he seems very aware that something happened beyond his heart stopping for a few seconds and then being resuscitated. This is supported by his line about an "after-life experience" in the second episode and his comment about second chances in this one, as well as a few other lines. So there's two options:

1) Coulson knows what happened to him, but SHIELD doesn't know that he knows.

2) Coulson thinks he knows what happened to him, but is wrong.

Coulson's own comments about what happened to him seem to support something more along the lines of magic, whereas Akela's "What did they do to him?" (this is coming from someone who had a mechanical eye that gave her enhanced vision) gives heavy support to the LMD theory. Neither a clone nor some form of magical resuscitation would be noticeable by her eye. And if it was some lesser form of mechanical enhancement, it wouldn't be dangerous for Coulson to know about it; it's got to be something big.

On the other hand, if the current Coulson is an LMD, then the MCU has spectacularly advanced AI technology. I mean, this is far, far beyond Star Trek's Data, whose behaviour was recognizably non-human. Coulson is, if anything, more emotive and empathic than he was pre-Avengers. It doesn't seem credible that such technology could exist without having overwhelmingly broader implications for the MCU as a whole.

[HandofShadows]

Actually Akela would not have been going "What did they DO to him?" if Coulson was an LMD. She would be freaked out there was a android there that looked/acted like Coulson. So SOMETHING has been done to him and whatever it was was very extensive, but he is still Coulson.

BTW does anyone else think that Clark Gregg has a LOT of fun playing Coulson?

[McStabbington]

The interesting thing with Coulson's "death" is that he seems very aware that something happened beyond his heart stopping for a few seconds and then being resuscitated. This is supported by his line about an "after-life experience" in the second episode and his comment about second chances in this one, as well as a few other lines. So there's two options:

1) Coulson knows what happened to him, but SHIELD doesn't know that he knows.

2) Coulson thinks he knows what happened to him, but is wrong.

Coulson's own comments about what happened to him seem to support something more along the lines of magic, whereas Akela's "What did they do to him?" (this is coming from someone who had a mechanical eye that gave her enhanced vision) gives heavy support to the LMD theory. Neither a clone nor some form of magical resuscitation would be noticeable by her eye. And if it was some lesser form of mechanical enhancement, it wouldn't be dangerous for Coulson to know about it; it's got to be something big.

On the other hand, if the current Coulson is an LMD, then the MCU has spectacularly advanced AI technology. I mean, this is far, far beyond Star Trek's Data, whose behaviour was recognizably non-human. Coulson is, if anything, more emotive and empathic than he was pre-Avengers. It doesn't seem credible that such technology could exist without having overwhelmingly broader implications for the MCU as a whole.

If anything it lends credence to the theory that Coulson is not an LMD. If you can scan someone with X-ray vision and you find that the person you're talking to is a robot, the appropriate question is not "What did they do to him?" It's "what the h#&& is that thing, and why did you make it look like my former mentor?" If he had some cybernetic work done to him or some serious internal surgical grafting, then I might ask "What did they do to him?"

[LadyEowyn]

Point.

But it has to be something serious enough that Hill would consider it to be disastrous for Coulson to find out about it.

[Rakaydos]

Considering Thor's people's "Magic" is "sufficently advanced technoligy" in this universe, If Coulsen is an Eijinhar (sp?) she might be seeing... something. Something to bring Coulsen back to life, that operates on completely diffeent principles than anything SHIELD knows.

[Brother Oni]

The interesting thing with Coulson's "death" is that he seems very aware that something happened beyond his heart stopping for a few seconds and then being resuscitated.

I think his exact same response to being asked about Tahiti every time ("It's a magical place") is also somewhat telling.
Conditioned response maybe?



BTW does anyone else think that Clark Gregg has a LOT of fun playing Coulson?

Yup, both as live action and in Ultimate Spiderman, although he hasn't quite mastered the discipline of being a Voice Actor yet.


Considering Thor's people's "Magic" is "sufficently advanced technoligy" in this universe, If Coulsen is an Eijinhar (sp?) she might be seeing... something. Something to bring Coulsen back to life, that operates on completely diffeent principles than anything SHIELD knows.

I think you're over-estimating the abilities of her eye - as far as I could tell, limited x-ray vision, video link, text messaging and [you know what] seems to be about all it does.

Spotting a resurrected einherjar warrior might be a bit beyond its capabilities.

[thorgrim29]

Not if he has a super large liver (for all the mead) or something else weird

[Hawriel]

Did it bother anyone that they kept saying psychic types don't exist in this weeks episode?

It bugged the heck out of me. I know mutants aren't quite part of this universe (Fox owns them and isn't sharing for now), but they do have giant green rage monsters, gods, super soldiers, flame shooting extremis users, and aliens. Is it really that much of a stretch that someone developed the ability to read minds?

Fox does not own mutants. Fox has the rights to make movies with the X-Men characters. A mutant is just a generic term. If AoS wanted to have mutation based powers it could.

The fourth episode was far better than the others. However it was still lacking.

The dialog fell into Saturday afternoon special territory way to often.

The glasses were a cute idea, but had a major flaw. At any moment the controller Ward was trying to fool would have found him out. Not just because he could have looked at sky. It is because if the controller even passively watched, or periodically checked up on his feed, he would almost certainly see Ward's reflection in windows, the windshield of the car, and most importantly his own hands as he drove the car, opened doors, and other activity that we are oblivious to that bring our hands into view.

Also those glasses were made in like five minutes. Were was the fabrication equipment to make them? This is a nit pick, I can hand wave that away because its an action show based off of a comic book. Every other espionage type show, or investigative show that is not law and order, does the same thing.


Sky is still a bad character. She is bland. A pale imitation Punky Brewster for 2013, a scrappy do with lip gloss. She is completely unbelievable as a hacker. Felicity on Arrow, and Garcia from Criminal Minds, is more like Kevin Mitnick than Sky will ever be.

It would have been better if they had a young agent that requested assignment to the team for the audience to follow instead.

[Hawriel]

Either they have made the most awesome set ever or that really WAS Stockholm. It probably was, which I thought was really cool (hey I live in Sweden!).

I'm not hating the characters quite as much as some others and I think the show is quite enjoyable if it wasn't for the fact that it has Joss Whedon's name written on it. Even Dollhouse was more compelling when I saw it and that was more of an Eliza Dushky show anyway. The real problem AoS has is that it lacks the "spark" that made Firefly, Buffy and Angel great. You can't really put your finger on it, but there's something missing.

The spark that Firefly and Buffy had was two fold. The first is characterization. I understood all of Firefly's characters, and how they fit on the show by their second scene at the latest. Sure there was a lot to discover about them, but I knew how they fit with in the cast. Buffy as similar.

The second element is writing and directing. While Firefly and Buffy may have had quirks, gaffs and mistakes, they never did any thing that was not believable under the context of the scene or the over all show.

Shield seems to think that depressurizing a plane will cause a constant sucking of air until the whole is plugged. By slightly leaning a rubber life raft against the hole.

That a character who totally blows off training in the most dangerous self defence move there is, can pull off the disarm of a fire arm successfully. Keep in mind that the actress did it wrong. She stepped into, IE towards the barrel off the weapon. She should, and would have been shot, if the plot did not say otherwise.

[Mauve Shirt]

I think it's time we all admit that Agents of SHIELD is just going to be a 40-episode-long (or so) trailer for The Avengers 2. I'll watch every minute of it.

Oh no... What if Agent Agent and Skye get a speaking role in Avengers 2? :smalleek:

[Brother Oni]

That a character who totally blows off training in the most dangerous self defence move there is, can pull off the disarm of a fire arm successfully. Keep in mind that the actress did it wrong. She stepped into, IE towards the barrel off the weapon. She should, and would have been shot, if the plot did not say otherwise.

I'd agree with you, if the (undoubtedly recurring) villain of the week she disarmed had any proper weapons training.

Chances are, the limit of his training is probably having been on the range a few times, so you have a barely taught person disarming a person who is barely familiar with pistols (the fact that he had his pistol extended within arm's reach of Skye was another major error he made), so her messing up the disarm and his not shooting her, are equally excusable.

Now if Ward made that mistake, then I'd be joining you with the burning torches and pitchforks.


Oh no... What if Agent Agent and Skye get a speaking role in Avengers 2? :smalleek:

Or worse, a singing role. :smalltongue:

[Lorsa]

The spark that Firefly and Buffy had was two fold. The first is characterization. I understood all of Firefly's characters, and how they fit on the show by their second scene at the latest. Sure there was a lot to discover about them, but I knew how they fit with in the cast. Buffy as similar.

The second element is writing and directing. While Firefly and Buffy may have had quirks, gaffs and mistakes, they never did any thing that was not believable under the context of the scene or the over all show.

Shield seems to think that depressurizing a plane will cause a constant sucking of air until the whole is plugged. By slightly leaning a rubber life raft against the hole.

That a character who totally blows off training in the most dangerous self defence move there is, can pull off the disarm of a fire arm successfully. Keep in mind that the actress did it wrong. She stepped into, IE towards the barrel off the weapon. She should, and would have been shot, if the plot did not say otherwise.

You forgot humour. Firefly made me laugh on plenty of occasion, and Buffy was a tongue-in-cheek kind of show even when it was dark and grim. The amount of awesome Firefly quotes from just 14 episodes is staggering but I have yet to see a single memorable joke in AoS.

But then again I'm one of those people who think cancelling Firefly should be considered a crime against humanity so maybe I've set the bar too high.

[Hopeless]

You forgot humour. Firefly made me laugh on plenty of occasion, and Buffy was a tongue-in-cheek kind of show even when it was dark and grim. The amount of awesome Firefly quotes from just 14 episodes is staggering but I have yet to see a single memorable joke in AoS.

But then again I'm one of those people who think cancelling Firefly should be considered a crime against humanity so maybe I've set the bar too high.

Nope I didn't expect much from that series but I still bothered to watch it and was promptly hooked although being over in the UK at least I didn't have the pilot swapped for episode 3 or whatever it was over in the US.

I still don't understand how you can cancel a series before it even starts without bothering to let it run the first few episode in the right order.

Does anyone actually know what happened to the people who cancelled Firefly by the way?

[Friv]

But then again I'm one of those people who think cancelling Firefly should be considered a crime against humanity so maybe I've set the bar too high.

I think that's probably the case.

Firefly was pretty close to being a perfect sci-fi show. The fact that it was cancelled is kind of disgraceful, and the fact that it has the kind of following, twelve years on, to support RPGs, board games, and eternal comparisons despite having only gotten thirteen episodes, some of which never actually aired, is a strong sign of that fact. I can't think of any other single-season show with that kind of support.

Agents of SHIELD was never going to be another Firefly. It's merely a quite good action-spy-scifi show. Dial your expectations to "quite good" instead of "perfect" and you may be happier with it, possibly.

[Lorsa]

Agents of SHIELD was never going to be another Firefly. It's merely a quite good action-spy-scifi show. Dial your expectations to "quite good" instead of "perfect" and you may be happier with it, possibly.

I think it's quite decent and am going to continue watching it for sure. It's just that when you hear Joss Whedon's name you get certain... expectations.

[grolim]

Also those glasses were made in like five minutes. Were was the fabrication equipment to make them? This is a nit pick, I can hand wave that away because its an action show based off of a comic book. Every other espionage type show, or investigative show that is not law and order, does the same thing.

They fly on a high tech jet owned by a secret govt spy organization and you find it hard to believe they have a pair of glasses with a camera in them on board? They only thing they had to do was add the xray part of it and connect it to the computer to transmit it on the right channel, which is what she was doing at the beginning in the car so he could get out and away from the computer. They also showed him taking pains not to look at things that could give it away. Why would they mention he can't look at her and you not also assume he will be trying to avoid windows and mirrors. Looking into one is what gave him away and he noticed it.

[Brother Oni]

They fly on a high tech jet owned by a secret govt spy organization and you find it hard to believe they have a pair of glasses with a camera in them on board?

I don't think Hawriel is really complaining about how they knocked up the glasses, it's more about how the camera's FOV was large enough to have easily shown Ward's hands in almost anything he would have done, despite his taking great pains to not give himself away.

[navar100]

"I'll be in my bunk."

[McStabbington]

I don't think Hawriel is really complaining about how they knocked up the glasses, it's more about how the camera's FOV was large enough to have easily shown Ward's hands in almost anything he would have done, despite his taking great pains to not give himself away.

And at some point, you either need to admit that you just don't like the show and stop watching, or just go with the story that they're telling and allow yourself some small amount of suspension of disbelief.

I will be honest, I did think the same thing . . . for about five seconds. Then I said to myself, look Mcstabbington, if the guy watching her eye-cam is even half-way observant, he can tell that the perspective is different simply because Agent Ward appeared to be about 8 inches taller than Akela. Which means she's dead. Which means there's no drama. And the explanation (Agent Ward is good at keeping his hands out of sight, and the guy isn't looking too terribly closely) is entirely reasonable. So let's just go along and enjoy the story, shall we? And I said yes to myself, I enjoyed the show, and that was the end of it.

All stories require some acceptable breaks from reality, and there is no story out there where you couldn't develop a question that would nullify the central conflict. Why were the Nazis digging in Egypt when Egypt was under British control prior to WWII? Why didn't Skynet just tuck a suitcase nuke into a wad of flesh of and send that back? Why didn't the Iron Giant use its eye lasers to blow up the nuke? The answer to all of those questions ultimately is: because if we accepted those critiques as valid, there's no story. They nullify the dramatic tension, and I happen to like the dramatic tension. So I let things slide just a little for the sake of the story.

Seriously, guys. I know bad science fiction. I've seen bad science fiction. I stayed with Voyager for very close to three full seasons before I gave up on it. And in Voyager's third episode, they asked us to believe that an event horizon is a tangible object that you could fire phasers at. In this episode, they asked us to believe that Agent Ward was really good at keeping his hands out of line of sight for twenty minutes. The breaks from reality this show are asking you to make are not that big, and they are nowhere close to what it would take for you to call this legitimately bad science fiction.

[BRC]

Also they are probably somewhat reluctant to trigger the killswitch.
Consider all the money and effort they spent to get this agent, plus how useful she is. They're not going to kill her unless they're sure she's been compromised.
Stuff like "The angle has changed" or "I'm not seeing her hands", that's all stuff that would be hard to notice. They have been watching her for YEARS, constantly. This is not some sort of omnipresent supercomputer that can instantly spot every variance, this is a human being watching a screen that they have been watching for years, through all sorts of mundanity. This would be stuff that might make somebody say "Hold on, that's odd", and then look into it, and then draw connections and check with somebody else.

They just needed the ruse to work for a few hours. That may be enough time for an especially observant handler to notice somthing seems wrong, but probably not enough time for them to check everything and say "Okay, kill our incrediably valuable agent."

Stuff like a mirror or seeing his hands would be a dead giveaway, but somthing like "she hasn't been blinking" or "The angle seems off" would be hard to spot if you had been watching a feed for years, and had no reason to suspect anything had changed.

[Brother Oni]

And at some point, you either need to admit that you just don't like the show and stop watching, or just go with the story that they're telling and allow yourself some small amount of suspension of disbelief.

Er, I'm on your side. I'm perfectly happy with the glasses situation and compared to AoS other flaws, whatever plot holes it makes is very minor.

Indulging Hawriel for a moment, her handler didn't really seem the observant sort to notice the change in height or have any real competence in fieldcraft (that two word instruction to get past that guard? Really?), so him missing the fact that she's been switched until it's blatantly obvious is perfectly reasonable to me.



Stuff like a mirror or seeing his hands would be a dead giveaway, but somthing like "she hasn't been blinking" or "The angle seems off" would be hard to spot if you had been watching a feed for years, and had no reason to suspect anything had changed.

Using an analogy, imagining having to watch Big Brother for 8 hours each day for years. Your brain would probably switch off after the first week.

[Hopeless]

You're assuming that its the same handler for every job, which wouldn't make sense since He's also had an implant in his eye and being so cognizant about security they would want to keep their operatives from getting familiar with their subjects, after all the handler could have deliberately ignored that detail as long as they were still attempting the mission and only had to react when he saw Ward's face since that would also have alerted their handler and activated both their kill switches.

What I'd like to know is why they didn't have every time she used her x-ray vision tagged so they would have a recording of why she used it which would have revealed what had happened...

Still laughed at the seduce him line though!:smallbiggrin:

Exactly who are the Rising Tide?

So far they're either the Wiki-leaks of Marvel or Tony Stark's April Fool Reprisal on SHIELD or someone else because I'm not getting the Hydra/AIM vibe although I'd have pinned the robotic eye job on Victor Von Doom as he's the most likely inventor but since someone has insured the FF are unavailable and Forge of the X-Men and other mutant groups equally unavailable that leaves either a new group specifically created for this new show (which would be a good idea because that's a lot of decent villains they don't have access to),hmmm what about the Thinker... but he's still an Ant man villain guess that's another addition to the Iron Man & Friends Road show?

Yes I'm annoyed at Stark inventing Ultron in the sequel, its not as if they don't have the rights to Hank Pym and Wasp after all, isn't it?!

[BRC]

Indulging Hawriel for a moment, her handler didn't really seem the observant sort to notice the change in height or have any real competence in fieldcraft (that two word instruction to get past that guard? Really?), so him missing the fact that she's been switched until it's blatantly obvious is perfectly reasonable to me.


Or he trusted that she was a skilled, highly motivated field agent who dosn't need to be micromanaged.

The biggest plot hole for me was that her handler was just one guy with a laptop, and yet they were apparently always watching her. Did that guy only ever sleep when she did? Did he never need to get away from the laptop to drive a car or sit on an airplane, get some food, go to the bathroom, find a power plug, ANYTHING.
...although it could easily be a Panopticon situation. They could be watching at any point, so she assumes they are always watching. That isn't explicitly stated, but it makes more sense and requires no additional assumptions. He was probably only watching when she was on-mission.

[Silver Swift]

The biggest plot hole for me was that her handler was just one guy with a laptop, and yet they were apparently always watching her. Did that guy only ever sleep when she did? Did he never need to get away from the laptop to drive a car or sit on an airplane, get some food, go to the bathroom, find a power plug, ANYTHING.

Do we know that only that guy was watching her? Sure, he was the one sending orders, but why wouldn't whoever is pulling the strings have some other people higher up the food chain checking up on stuff.

[McStabbington]

Er, I'm on your side. I'm perfectly happy with the glasses situation and compared to AoS other flaws, whatever plot holes it makes is very minor.


Er sorry about that. Sometimes, when I get rolling (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7vtWB4owdE), I'm not always the most discriminant in whom I'm quoting.

[Talyn]

I'm not quite sure where people are coming from saying the show isn't funny - I had to stop and rewind three times in the last episode alone because I was still laughing when the show had moved on, and I didn't want to miss any of the dialogue. This show is a riot - maybe not funny on the same level of Firefly, but definitely funnier than Buffy, or Angel, or 99% of the dedicated "comedies" you find on TV.

Also - I'm glad that Ward had some character development. While I don't think he was quite as uninteresting as some people here, I agree he was due for a little softening.

This may seem like a weird question, but do we know Skye's last name? Has it ever come up?

[BWR]

I'm not quite sure where people are coming from saying the show isn't funny - I had to stop and rewind three times in the last episode alone because I was still laughing when the show had moved on, and I didn't want to miss any of the dialogue. This show is a riot - maybe not funny on the same level of Firefly, but definitely funnier than Buffy, or Angel, or 99% of the dedicated "comedies" you find on TV.


I suppose we shall have to agree to disagree, then. The only two genuinely funny bits were Coulson in the shadows in the pilot and "Seduce him". All other 'humor' tries and fails.

[navar100]

You're assuming that its the same handler for every job, which wouldn't make sense since


It is the same handler. Aleta figured out he was British from his language use and noticing his typing led Coulson to figure out his build.

[Philistine]

"Short Bus" amused me. Mostly because of Coulson's reaction - but it also definitely establishes that Ward has a sense of humor, however feeble.

[Mordar]

Can I just say that I thought this was one of the more interesting episodes? Not for the reasons I expected, mind you. But I just really liked the cinematography of the Stockholm scene in the beginning. That was shot really well and quite atmospheric.

I liked this as well...I also noticed the homage to 70s/80s era espionage thrillers with the cut sequence and changes in window size and perspective.


Huh? No one mentions yet Akela asking about what was done to Coulson to fuel the Tahiti mystery?

I wondered about this (as discussed above) - I assume we are meant to debate whether it was her eye or her familiarity that led to her question. Also telling, I thought (though this may be giving the writers too much credit), that she did not follow up on the topic and gave the "nevermind" - it suggested to me that she assumed it was something others were not meant to know and could endanger Coulson in some fashion.

- D

[Talanic]

I just caught up to episode four and while I'm pleased I still feel the show's not reaching its full potential.

Considering that it is four episodes into the very first season...that's not particularly surprising. Yes, Firefly hit the ground running (or rather, took off and flashed its afterburners) but my wife even brought up how Buffy's first season has a few gems among a bunch of fairly everyday episodes. I'm afraid that Joss Whedon occasionally slow-burns his shows, sometimes to their severe detriment - Sarah Connor Chronicles would probably have survived had the reveal near the end of the second season occurred at the end of the first season instead.

That being that John Connor wasn't actually a spoiled, shallow brat but rather had been pretending, half to grab the very brief chance he had at a year or two of life in a normal, pre-apocalypse world and half to allow the people trying to manipulate him into showing their hand so he could go in for the kill.

[Hawriel]

I'd agree with you, if the (undoubtedly recurring) villain of the week she disarmed had any proper weapons training.

Chances are, the limit of his training is probably having been on the range a few times, so you have a barely taught person disarming a person who is barely familiar with pistols (the fact that he had his pistol extended within arm's reach of Skye was another major error he made), so her messing up the disarm and his not shooting her, are equally excusable.

Now if Ward made that mistake, then I'd be joining you with the burning torches and pitchforks.



Or worse, a singing role. :smalltongue:

It does not take training to pull a trigger. Any punk with a gun can twitch their finger and kill Bruce Lee when he attempts to disarm them when holding a gun. Hell twisting the wrist and holding it wrong would allow the person with the gun to grip the gun hard. This includes the index finger. It takes training to NOT pull the trigger in this instance.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Did it bother anyone that they kept saying psychic types don't exist in this weeks episode?

It bugged the heck out of me. I know mutants aren't quite part of this universe (Fox owns them and isn't sharing for now), but they do have giant green rage monsters, gods, super soldiers, flame shooting extremis users, and aliens. Is it really that much of a stretch that someone developed the ability to read minds?
Worth noting: no mental powers have popped up in the MCU as of yet. Just physical stuff. Which is interesting to note.

But--it's one thing to shoot fire. It's another thing to perceive the world in a totally different way. It's bigger than we give it credit for.

Also--glad to see that we're getting a season-long arc at last.

EDIT: On Skye and the disarm from last week...I guess I don't have the same perspective as others. You had a setup early in the episode (Skye undergoing disarm training) and then a payoff at the climax (Skye successfully performing a disarm). That's all there is to it--that's how the basic beats of storytelling, especially in comics, work. You establish something early on and pay it off later. It's up to the audience to fill in the details.

[Hawriel]

I don't think Hawriel is really complaining about how they knocked up the glasses, it's more about how the camera's FOV was large enough to have easily shown Ward's hands in almost anything he would have done, despite his taking great pains to not give himself away.

The post Grolim quoted has me saying this exact thing.

As others have said I dont really think the controller was watching the feed intently for the whole mission. So it is possible that he could have over looked many of the issues I, and others mentioned up until that point.

The instruction to seduce the guard was made at the right moment. So he was at least periodically checking in to see if and when the objective was reached. I would think that the controller started watching the feed closely just before the seduction order was given. After he got what he wanted he signed off and Ward was in the clear again.

As I said already I can accept the fact that the glasses could and have been made. After all comic book adventure show.

Another plot hole were the scientists. I dont believe at all that those to ADHD science types have an M.D. let alone the skills two perform optical, and neurosurgery.

Brother Oni I have a tendancy to dig into a toppic. If I got combative sorry. I understand your point of view. Letting go now.

Lorsa

Your right about the humor. I kinda considered it part of the writing quality.

[Eldan]

Is there a pun I'm missing in "Short Bus"? I don't get why it's supposed to be funny.

[Zach J.]

In the US it refers to a bus that's shorter than conventional school buses and often used to transport physically or mentally handicapped students.

[Brother Oni]

Further to Zach J's answer, the buses are shorter as the numbers of students who need such special assistances are less than the standard students of the school, so you don't need such a big bus.

It's also cheaper to modify a smaller bus with specialised equipment, such as a wheelchair lift.

[DigoDragon]

Eye finally saw this week's episode and thought it was really good.

Sky was even half-way decent this time, providing some useful ideas (I thought it might have been precog myself). As usual, I love May rockin the boat when she leaves on her own to get to the agent first. :smallbiggrin:

Fun we get another piece of the conspiracy with a "possible link to aliens". Man that little room with the two guys on typewriters was the second creepiest thing. The first? Eye surgery. Gives me the squick feelin'.

I assumed that SHIELD had the equipment to build those glasses on hand (It makes sense, that's awesome spy gear right there). A possible reason the controller didn't notice the switch would be if he's been doing the watching for years as well and just got complacent in his role.

[Philistine]

I just caught up to episode four and while I'm pleased I still feel the show's not reaching its full potential.

Considering that it is four episodes into the very first season...that's not particularly surprising. Yes, Firefly hit the ground running (or rather, took off and flashed its afterburners) but my wife even brought up how Buffy's first season has a few gems among a bunch of fairly everyday episodes. I'm afraid that Joss Whedon occasionally slow-burns his shows, sometimes to their severe detriment - Sarah Connor Chronicles would probably have survived had the reveal near the end of the second season occurred at the end of the first season instead.

That being that John Connor wasn't actually a spoiled, shallow brat but rather had been pretending, half to grab the very brief chance he had at a year or two of life in a normal, pre-apocalypse world and half to allow the people trying to manipulate him into showing their hand so he could go in for the kill.

As much as I agree that T:TSCC had similar issues to most of Whedon's shows (and also that it was killed off just when it was starting to reach its potential, though in this case the ratings just weren't there), it was created by Josh Friedman rather than Joss Whedon.

[Avaris]

Another plot hole were the scientists. I dont believe at all that those to ADHD science types have an M.D. let alone the skills two perform optical, and neurosurgery.


Bare in mind it wasn't actually her real eye, so the optical surgery doesn't come into it (you can be as rough/clumsy as you want), and the only neurosurgery was cutting a wire to her brain (which they got the tech expert for)

[KillianHawkeye]

Shield seems to think that depressurizing a plane will cause a constant sucking of air until the whole is plugged. By slightly leaning a rubber life raft against the hole.

In defense of the show, this is a pretty common ocurrence in any action movie featuring an airplane.

[Tyndmyr]

Or he trusted that she was a skilled, highly motivated field agent who dosn't need to be micromanaged.

The biggest plot hole for me was that her handler was just one guy with a laptop, and yet they were apparently always watching her. Did that guy only ever sleep when she did? Did he never need to get away from the laptop to drive a car or sit on an airplane, get some food, go to the bathroom, find a power plug, ANYTHING.
...although it could easily be a Panopticon situation. They could be watching at any point, so she assumes they are always watching. That isn't explicitly stated, but it makes more sense and requires no additional assumptions. He was probably only watching when she was on-mission.

She needed to ask for permission to sleep, so yeah, probably. And being that her handler also had a bomb implanted, it's likely that HIS handlers weren't terribly worried about his comfort.

There is indeed a chance that he could have been discovered, but it's not inevitable, so it certainly doesn't ruin the concept for me.

Definitely a better episode...but Skye is still worthless. The seat not being right makes you entirely incapable of hitting even a single pedal?



EDIT: On Skye and the disarm from last week...I guess I don't have the same perspective as others. You had a setup early in the episode (Skye undergoing disarm training) and then a payoff at the climax (Skye successfully performing a disarm). That's all there is to it--that's how the basic beats of storytelling, especially in comics, work. You establish something early on and pay it off later. It's up to the audience to fill in the details.

Yes...but normally, you make the setup make sense, and making all the setup/payoffs purely episodic is a very questionable tactic. If you know exactly what the payoff will be and when it's coming, well, that's not inherently interesting unless the payoff is very large and dramatic indeed. Disarming someone isn't.

It was also a fairly poor setup. I mean, it's a plot point that she's not taking training seriously. No consequences for that basically wastes that developed plot. It's a lot of setup for a really poor payoff of Agent Ward telling a tiny bit about his past, and frankly, the story's persuasiveness does not seem to match the portrayed effect.

What made this episode good was that we have actual, real conflict, as well as loose ends that obviously indicate a larger plot. We also have some better fast characterization, as we learn a bit about the bomb-implanted agent without detracting from the story. Not from the monologue Coulson delivers, but in her actions.

[Rakaydos]

Yes...but normally, you make the setup make sense, and making all the setup/payoffs purely episodic is a very questionable tactic. If you know exactly what the payoff will be and when it's coming, well, that's not inherently interesting unless the payoff is very large and dramatic indeed. Disarming someone isn't.

It was also a fairly poor setup. I mean, it's a plot point that she's not taking training seriously. No consequences for that basically wastes that developed plot. It's a lot of setup for a really poor payoff of Agent Ward telling a tiny bit about his past, and frankly, the story's persuasiveness does not seem to match the portrayed effect.

I think you have it backward (or at least missing the the final step) when it comes to the episode. Yes, Skye wasnt taking it seriously. But then that disarm saves her life, and at the end of the episode, we see her doing the same training she DIDNT take seriously before, and DOES take it seriously now.

As others have pointed out, she did the disarm wrong, she could have died fro pulling a stunt like that as poorly trained as she was... and at the end of the episode, she starts taking training seriously. THAT is the plot development, not just a simple Chekove's disarm.

[Hawriel]

I think you have it backward (or at least missing the the final step) when it comes to the episode. Yes, Skye wasnt taking it seriously. But then that disarm saves her life, and at the end of the episode, we see her doing the same training she DIDNT take seriously before, and DOES take it seriously now.

As others have pointed out, she did the disarm wrong, she could have died fro pulling a stunt like that as poorly trained as she was... and at the end of the episode, she starts taking training seriously. THAT is the plot development, not just a simple Chekove's disarm.

She should have been shot. That is how badly she blew off the training, and the actress did the disarm.

[Rakaydos]

She should have been shot. That is how badly she blew off the training, and the actress did the disarm.

Good thing she's paying attention to training now, so she doesnt mess it up NEXT TIME.

[Thrudd]

After the last episode, does anyone still think they are not setting up to reveal a full-on android/LMD at some point (maybe Coulson, maybe not)?
My guess is that SHIELD has known about and had this tech for some time, maybe only Fury and Hill and a few top scientists have access to it. It being used by someone for nefarious purposes is either a SHIELD defector or the tech having been stolen by a rival group or villain.

[Tyndmyr]

I think you have it backward (or at least missing the the final step) when it comes to the episode. Yes, Skye wasnt taking it seriously. But then that disarm saves her life, and at the end of the episode, we see her doing the same training she DIDNT take seriously before, and DOES take it seriously now.

As others have pointed out, she did the disarm wrong, she could have died fro pulling a stunt like that as poorly trained as she was... and at the end of the episode, she starts taking training seriously. THAT is the plot development, not just a simple Chekove's disarm.

Yeah, but why? What made her develop? Plot goes problem, conflict, solution...when you do x, and it works perfectly, you have no conflict, and no reason to change.

So, her char didn't really develop, just arbitrarily changed.

[Silver Swift]

Yeah, but why? What made her develop? Plot goes problem, conflict, solution...when you do x, and it works perfectly, you have no conflict, and no reason to change.

Because (among several other things) she now has first-hand experience about how useful combat training can be?

[BRC]

Shirking on the training dosn't mean the disarm never works, it means the disarm is much less likely to work.
If we saw her reliably using it against trained foes, then I would have a problem, but she did it once against a guy with no combat training that he know about. It could have gone wrong, but she got lucky once.

[Thrudd]

Shirking on the training dosn't mean the disarm never works, it means the disarm is much less likely to work.
If we saw her reliably using it against trained foes, then I would have a problem, but she did it once against a guy with no combat training that he know about. It could have gone wrong, but she got lucky once.

Maybe it's just a TV thing where they unrealistically accelerate the learning process to move the story along. Or maybe it will be a part of the story, like she's got a minor super power, super affininty for learning, or she's got cybernetic parts or is part of an experiment or something, and doesn't know it. That's why she's some kind of unlikely hacker prodigy with a super affinity for computers and is sought after by both SHIELD and their enemies.

[Brother Oni]

Definitely a better episode...but Skye is still worthless. The seat not being right makes you entirely incapable of hitting even a single pedal?

Depends on whether the van was automatic or manual transmission; manual transmissions are more common in Belarus. Would you preferred it if Skye had stalled the van when she tried to start it?

Of course that means finding a manual transmission van in the US for a very minor detail, making it unlikely the production crew had time or the budget to do so.

As for the seat being right - the actor who plays Ward is 6'2", while the actress for Skye is not even scraping 5'6". Ever tried to drive an unfamiliar vehicle that's been setup for someone over half a foot taller/shorter than you?

To pre-empt the question of why the seating wasn't re-adjusted after Ward left, it probably would have been if anybody left in the van was an actual field agent. You've got two scientists and someone who's probably hasn't started the fieldcraft part of the SHIELD agent training.


Maybe it's just a TV thing where they unrealistically accelerate the learning process to move the story along. Or maybe it will be a part of the story, like she's got a minor super power, super affininty for learning, or she's got cybernetic parts or is part of an experiment or something, and doesn't know it. That's why she's some kind of unlikely hacker prodigy with a super affinity for computers and is sought after by both SHIELD and their enemies.

Or she got lucky. As Hawriel's repeatedly pointed out, she got the disarm wrong and yet still managed to pull it off.

[Tyndmyr]

Shirking on the training dosn't mean the disarm never works, it means the disarm is much less likely to work.
If we saw her reliably using it against trained foes, then I would have a problem, but she did it once against a guy with no combat training that he know about. It could have gone wrong, but she got lucky once.

It isn't that sheer, blind luck is impossible, it's that success through luck doesn't inherently teach you anything. We don't see any reaction from her with regards to why she wants to learn, all of a sudden, she just does. The only given reason is the little story that Ward McPunchyface tells her. That's the reason she commits.

It's not a very compelling reason.


Depends on whether the van was automatic or manual transmission; manual transmissions are more common in Belarus. Would you preferred it if Skye had stalled the van when she tried to start it?

Of course that means finding a manual transmission van in the US for a very minor detail, making it unlikely the production crew had time or the budget to do so.

A stall would be much more believable than what occurred.

Also, showing a manual transmission is a rounding error in a budget with aircraft, superpowers, CGIed supertech, etc. Hell, it's not like they even showed her trying to reach the pedals, she just states what the problem is. Insert noises and "damn, I stalled it", and you're off to the races.



As for the seat being right - the actor who plays Ward is 6'2", while the actress for Skye is not even scraping 5'6". Ever tried to drive an unfamiliar vehicle that's been setup for someone over half a foot taller/shorter than you?

Yup. It's quite annoying. However, if my only goal is to get the hell out of the way of oncoming traffic, adjusting the seat for comfort ceases to matter. It isn't a question of if that's a good way to drive, it's literally a question of "could she hit the gas pedal". An 8" height difference does not translate to an inability to use the vehicle.

[Tono]

It could just be me, but I figured she wanted to learn and take her training more seriously because she came a hair's width away from dieing. She barely got out of her situation, and then when she was on the run she had to rely on Ward to save her. Later when she is at the bag we see that she realizes if she is going to do this job, if she is going to live then she has to actually commit.
Before the mission, she really didn't see a need to take the training seriously. Afterwards, she realized she did.

[Philistine]

Are LMDs good enough to fool an X-ray, or whatever "backscatter" tech Akela's eye used? And would that contribute anything interesting to Akela's "What did they do to Coulson?" bit at the end?

ETA:

It could just be me, but I figured she wanted to learn and take her training more seriously because she came a hair's width away from dieing. She barely got out of her situation, and then when she was on the run she had to rely on Ward to save her. Later when she is at the bag we see that she realizes if she is going to do this job, if she is going to live then she has to actually commit.
Before the mission, she really didn't see a need to take the training seriously. Afterwards, she realized she did.
Pretty much this. For all her cool, quippy demeanor in the showdown with Quinn, when Ward showed up Skye was clearly very glad to see him - after he KO'd the security guards who were trying to grab her, she ran to him and nearly threw her arms around him. It appeared to me that she knew that she just got lucky disarming Quinn, and that things could very easily have gone very much worse for her. Hence her improved focus on training.

[Tyndmyr]

Her running didn't result from lack of training, but from her unwillingness to pull the trigger. Huge difference.

[Sith_Happens]

It isn't that sheer, blind luck is impossible, it's that success through luck doesn't inherently teach you anything.

It teaches you to pay more attention from then on, which is exactly what she learned.

[Tyndmyr]

It teaches you to pay more attention from then on, which is exactly what she learned.

No, success is not the way you demonstrate that. Failure or complications is the way you demonstrate the need to improve. Success does not demonstrate a need to improve.

[grolim]

Maybe, but taking the gun was not all of it. She got the gun, even if she fails to realize that was lucky and so it not motivate her t continue training the rest of the scene could. Once she had the gun she was outnumbered and could not pull the trigger so getting the gun only bought her some time. Maybe having to run and be rescued taught her. She realized her training got her the gun (missing the luck part) but also realizing that was not enough so she needed more. So in that sense failure would motivate her, or at least the realiziation that some training was not enough training.

[Tono]

Success can also inspire improvement. First time I was firing a M16 and it didn't feed, I was able to fix it but I realized it took way too long and I barely did that. Later, I studied more up on it. Practiced what I could and asked others. I didn't fail anything, but I realized I could have succeed better and that if I was in any worse situation then chances are I wouldn't have been able to fix it.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

...sometimes, I forget just what overanalysis looks like.

[DigoDragon]

Good thing she's paying attention to training now, so she doesnt mess it up NEXT TIME.

So which one is the safety and which one is the mag release? :smallbiggrin:
When I saw that moment in the van, I actually got up and shouted "Oh come on!"



After the last episode, does anyone still think they are not setting up to reveal a full-on android/LMD at some point (maybe Coulson, maybe not)?

Well there's certainly a lot of super-advanced tech leaking around the place and now a hint of aliens... so maybe.



Skye is still worthless. The seat not being right makes you entirely incapable of hitting even a single pedal?

I'm going to assume she panicked and didn't even have the vehicle in a proper gear to start it, nevermind the pedals.

[grolim]

...sometimes, I forget just what overanalysis looks like.

Thank goodness you have the internet heh.

[Brother Oni]

It isn't a question of if that's a good way to drive, it's literally a question of "could she hit the gas pedal".

Actually for manual transmission, it's more "start the engine with the clutch fully disengaged, put it into first gear, then engage both clutch and accelerator at the right rate".


So which one is the safety and which one is the mag release? :smallbiggrin:
When I saw that moment in the van, I actually got up and shouted "Oh come on!"

At least they made an attempt to lampshade it earlier on in the episode.
I'm also going to say, never underestimate the ineptitude of new gun owners/users - I read enough horror stories from gun ranges in the US.

[Tyndmyr]

So which one is the safety and which one is the mag release? :smallbiggrin:
When I saw that moment in the van, I actually got up and shouted "Oh come on!"

That's a much better example of failure, yeah. But it was kind of ludicrous, you're absolutely right. I know they intend for Skye to be the audience stand-in, kind of. The outsider that everything must be explained to, but she also does need to at least kind of make sense as part of the team.

Consider Sherlock. Using sherlock as the viewpoint char wouldn't work for that kind of mystery. You *need* Watson from a dramatic perspective. That said, Watson does bring useful skills to the table, and while he isn't center stage, he does help out as appropriate. You understand why Sherlock hangs out with him.


I'm going to assume she panicked and didn't even have the vehicle in a proper gear to start it, nevermind the pedals.

She verbally indicates that she can't reach the pedals because he's too tall. Panic would probably be a lot more appropriate, honestly. I wouldn't help her general uselessness, but at least it would be believable, since average people in that situation might well panic.

Back to the training, as for all the "maybe this, maybe that", well...none of that was shown on screen. The thing that was shown on screen was Coulson telling Ward to open up to her. He tells her a couple lines about his brother. In the time of crisis, she talks about THAT. That is the dramatic thread as shown. Yes, it's terrible, but if you start ignoring what's shown, you're not really talking about the show, but what you wish had happened instead.

[Rakaydos]

Back to the training, as for all the "maybe this, maybe that", well...none of that was shown on screen. The thing that was shown on screen was Coulson telling Ward to open up to her. He tells her a couple lines about his brother. In the time of crisis, she talks about THAT. That is the dramatic thread as shown. Yes, it's terrible, but if you start ignoring what's shown, you're not really talking about the show, but what you wish had happened instead.

Compare the punching bag scene at the beginning to the punching bag scene at the end. What changed? Why?

[McStabbington]

That's a much better example of failure, yeah. But it was kind of ludicrous, you're absolutely right. I know they intend for Skye to be the audience stand-in, kind of. The outsider that everything must be explained to, but she also does need to at least kind of make sense as part of the team.


She does make sense in the show. She is partly the everyman, because we'd need an everyman to ask questions like "What's a code 084?" But she also needs an in-character reason to be on the team, because "Five experts plus Miss Magoo" is a) the recipe that was used way back in the Silver Age of comics, where every team had some idiot kid as their mascot, and b) sticks out like a sore thumb. So she does have a reason: she's apparently good with technology. She can hack, but she also knows her online resources to know that not everything needs to be hacked.

The fact that you don't like her doesn't obviate the fact that you don't seem easy to please. When she's competent at something, you think that's unrealistic. When she's not competent at something, you think that's unrealistic. If I had to hazard a guess, if she were to spend an entire mission in her room with her cell phone off and the lights turned on, you'd find that unrealistic. Seriously dude, if you don't like the plotting, maybe this show is not for you.

[pikeamus]

That was the first episode of the season that gets above a C+ rating for me. There was enough intrigue, the pacing was good and there was more of a "show don't tell" approach to new information.

I still don't like Skye but I warmed towards May and Ward this episode. I suppose I did like that they had Skye actually doing things with computers, if they can actually keep in mind what her skillset it supposed to be for a few more episodes I could see myself becoming more comfortable with her as well. Still think it would've been better if she had been sitting in her van doing some coding for fun, rather than just hanging out aimlessly.

[DigoDragon]

Actually for manual transmission, it's more "start the engine with the clutch fully disengaged, put it into first gear, then engage both clutch and accelerator at the right rate".

In a panic I'm quite certain I'd never get a manual transmission engine started in time (if at all) especially if I have to really lean forward to reach the pedals.



At least they made an attempt to lampshade it earlier on in the episode. I'm also going to say, never underestimate the ineptitude of new gun owners/users - I read enough horror stories from gun ranges in the US.

It still felt a bit forced to me that she'd still mistake the safety and mag ejection again. I'd like to offer the suggestion that instead she points the gun but still can't bring herself to shoot someone, thus building on the previous episode about the subject.



The outsider that everything must be explained to, but she also does need to at least kind of make sense as part of the team.

Skye at least knows her hacking, and her suggestion of the thief being a precog would have been my first guess too.

[Brother Oni]

It still felt a bit forced to me that she'd still mistake the safety and mag ejection again. I'd like to offer the suggestion that instead she points the gun but still can't bring herself to shoot someone, thus building on the previous episode about the subject.

Looking at the episode again, it seems that Skye accidentally hit the magazine release when she turned the weapon on its side to find the safety release:

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/f/f8/MAOS_S01E04_012.jpg/600px-MAOS_S01E04_012.jpg

In that picture, she's clearly looking at the features on the pistol (a S&W 910), but her thumb is already on the magazine release (probably unintentionally).

Personally I would fumble for it as well - all the firearms I've handled have the safety located above the trigger, rather than on the left hand side of the slide:

http://www.imfdb.org/images/3/35/Smith_%26_Wesson_910.jpg

See the big obvious lever above the trigger? That's not the safety release.

[Hawriel]

It teaches you to pay more attention from then on, which is exactly what she learned.

Instructors who teach self defense, which include disarms of fire arms, use squirt guns. By the end of the class every one is soaked in water.

As others have said, Skye succeeded with no training. It should have reinforced her self indulgent attitude of not needing any training. Which she hated doing. There was no reason for her to admit she was wrong.

If she was shot, because she screwed up the disarm, which the actress did, then you have a very personal, and compelling motivation to take self defense training seriously.

[huttj509]

Instructors who teach self defense, which include disarms of fire arms, use squirt guns. By the end of the class every one is soaked in water.

As others have said, Skye succeeded with no training. It should have reinforced her self indulgent attitude of not needing any training. Which she hated doing. There was no reason for her to admit she was wrong.

If she was shot, because she screwed up the disarm, which the actress did, then you have a very personal, and compelling motivation to take self defense training seriously.

It depends on if the attitude was due to "This won't come up" or "I got this handled."

For the latter? Sure. For the former? "I got lucky" can be a fine motivator to pay more attention.

[Rakaydos]

It depends on if the attitude was due to "This won't come up" or "I got this handled."

For the latter? Sure. For the former? "I got lucky" can be a fine motivator to pay more attention.

In RPG discussions right now, there's a thread about overspecialization. Sky is overspecialized in hacking, figuring she'd be sitting on the Bus most sessions. Learning "field skills" because the DM makes her go on missions, she has to start from skill point 1.

[Sith_Happens]

...Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is Shadowrun, it makes so much sense.

[Aotrs Commander]

Regarding Skye and firearms, and the magazine releasing thereof...

Everybody fumbles now and again...!



(Also, I think the major reason for that, like the time it happened to McKay on Stargate Atlantis was largely not anything to do with realism or lack thereof, but because it was funny.)

[Philistine]

Instructors who teach self defense, which include disarms of fire arms, use squirt guns. By the end of the class every one is soaked in water.

As others have said, Skye succeeded with no training. It should have reinforced her self indulgent attitude of not needing any training. Which she hated doing. There was no reason for her to admit she was wrong.

If she was shot, because she screwed up the disarm, which the actress did, then you have a very personal, and compelling motivation to take self defense training seriously.

Nobody ever learns anything without being shot first? REALLY? Man, preschool must be brutal in your town. :smallsigh:

It's perhaps worth noting here that disarming Quinn gained Skye very little - just a few seconds later, her lack of self-defense skills resulted in her being recaptured by Quinn's guards. Only Ward's timely arrival, and the combat skills that allowed him to disable multiple guards in a matter of moments, saved her from being dragged off. And she very obviously recognized that at the time.

[Talanic]

Actually, I thought I learned a lot about Skye from those scenes. She's not trained in hacking; she's self-taught and has a knack. Previously she had assumed that Ward's fighting skills were exactly the same way. Her assumption that these skills were innate and not trainable was crippling her ability to learn; she'd never imagined that Ward had ever been weak in his life.

After he opens up, she explicitly resumes training. There's a cut to later immediately afterwards, but she seems to be taking Ward more seriously.

[DigoDragon]

Looking at the episode again, it seems that Skye accidentally hit the magazine release when she turned the weapon on its side to find the safety release:

Well that image certainly helped the case for her fumble.




...Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is Shadowrun, it makes so much sense.

Heh, that actually does!

[LaZodiac]

Next episode is out!

It's...kind of amazing. Best yet. "They gave him a name"

Also, totally called that the SD card was important.

Also also, next episode is in two weeks.

[Palanan]

Well, that was mildly entertaining. More than a little depressing, and also slightly confusing:

So, Skye's a traitor, except she's not, except she's a mole for Rising Tide, except she's somehow not, except she was lying about everything, except she's really just a little lost girl trying to find her parents?

If only the character had the slightest substance, depth, or personality, I might actually care.

And speaking of depressing:

Okay, for some reason "Scorch" is having some issues and decides to flame everything in sight. He toasts things, but Centipede was able to handle that, so why can't S.H.I.E.L.D.? Rather than make any serious attempt at containment, they basically let him self-destruct--in fact, they force it--in the process obliterating a treasure trove of hard resources and information on their new enemies.

That's just bone-stupid. Centipede had knockout gas, which worked like a charm, so why can't S.H.I.E.L.D. do the same?

And for that matter, the guy was under S.H.I.E.L.D. observation, and direct contact, which means they should be taking responsibility for him. And instead they choose to let him go critical? I'm starting to not like these people.

And speaking of stupid:

Skye appears in Hacker Boy's apartment and tells him she doesn't have much time. Next thing you know, they're taking a lot of personal time. Apart from serious issues of impulse control, how is Skye planning to explain this to Coulson? Ducking into someone's apartment for a few moments is one thing; madly flinging clothes about, such that items are difficult to find later, is something else entirely.

Also, she hides her chip with all her deepest personal secrets in her bra. Let's review the part where clothing is being madly flung about.

But, there were funny parts:

Coulson: "Then an alien staff goes through my heart...."

Mei: "You sure it didn't go through your brain?"

Coulson: "You don't do comforting either, do you?"

And back to stupid:

So, this Hong Kong street magician has just been lied to, seized, beaten and abducted. Naturally, when he wakes up, all it takes is ninety seconds of sweet-talk from Mystery Flower Dress Babe and he's ready to forgive, forget and be experimented on?

You'd think a street performer would have, I dunno, a better sense of street smarts. Besides, "Scorch" is just plain stupid.

And, of course, the obligatory revelation...

...of deeper tentacles in the Centipede pond. For a final scene meant to tease us about Villainous Plots Yet To Come, it was oddly uninteresting.

Okay, a last comment on confusing:

Why is Skye getting the no-electronics bracelet? Isn't using electronics pretty much her only point?
.

[navar100]

Okay, a last comment on confusing:

Why is Skye getting the no-electronics bracelet? Isn't using electronics pretty much her only point?
.

They can take it off when they need her to hack. She can't hack without their knowledge or approval. She's on double secret probation.

[LaZodiac]

Coulson said the bracelets do "whatever they want them to" so we can assume it will let her use tech if they want or need her to use tech.

Also, Skye's actions with the hacker are explicitly in universe described as stupid. There's a chance she could of talked her way out of that if she didn't get all hot and heavy.

As for Scorch...I think it's a nice name :smalltongue:

[StreamOfTheSky]

So...why is there no episode next week?

Also, Palanan was pretty dead-on with what I was thinking.
I also thought the whole operation of trying to catch the hacker guy was pretty stupid. From the part where they just had Ward just stand there looking at him all inconspicuous -like to the only means of pursuit being Coulson in a car. But then they revealed they had May shadowing Skye all along, so maybe they intentionally botched the chase.

Seeing the evil scientist at least get her comeuppance, and in rather painful and graphic fashion, was pretty satisfying. As was the "anonymous donation" to the dead agent's family. Hacker dude (and Skye) still got off far too lightly, though. Throw them in cells...

[theNater]

Okay, for some reason "Scorch" is having some issues and decides to flame everything in sight. He toasts things, but Centipede was able to handle that, so why can't S.H.I.E.L.D.? Rather than make any serious attempt at containment, they basically let him self-destruct--in fact, they force it--in the process obliterating a treasure trove of hard resources and information on their new enemies.

That's just bone-stupid. Centipede had knockout gas, which worked like a charm, so why can't S.H.I.E.L.D. do the same?
S.H.I.E.L.D. didn't bring knockout gas. They brought the night-night gun, and used it when it became apparent that talking wasn't doing any good. If you're suggesting that they should have used Centipede's knockout gas, I would posit that they didn't know Centipede had it.

And for that matter, the guy was under S.H.I.E.L.D. observation, and direct contact, which means they should be taking responsibility for him. And instead they choose to let him go critical? I'm starting to not like these people.
The agent responsible for Scorch untied him, and was given a fireball through the chest as thanks. Given that, I'd say the remaining agents acted with remarkable restraint.

[Kitten Champion]

I'm glad they've got an identifiable villain with semi-obvious motivation now. That's something this show needs, an overarching plot. Outside of hinting at the mystery behind Coulson's resurrection and certain assorted character drama, there hasn't been anything really tying this season together. Leaving it something of a under-developed, episodic experience.

I assumed it would be some kind of inevitable betrayal due to past loyalties we're told she has, leading to conflict both real and emotional, finishing with her having to prove her loyalty anew and being accepted tentatively back into the group with the dramatic climax. The way this episode was carried out wasn't that annoying.

The whole hacktivist angle wasn't particularly effective or used very well, it was a better choice to make her motivation more personal than ideological. An ideology she's represented pretty tepidly, she's not nearly complex enough of a character to pull off a Machiavellian double agent, and this show is more about heroic spies than thrilling conspiracy.

A prodigious child seeking her absent parents, lonely and confused. I could easily see how and why'd she start looking for protected information and hidden truths -- and why she'd jump at the chance for SHIELD despite lacking the experience and temperament. After all, she's remarkable, and SHIELD's certainly interested in knowing everything about the remarkable.

I just wish I liked the way the character is portrayed, she seems perpetually petulant and snarky -- I know people like her, so I can't say its unrealistic, but I don't especially like them.

[LaZodiac]

So...why is there no episode next week?

Also, Palanan was pretty dead-on with what I was thinking.
I also thought the whole operation of trying to catch the hacker guy was pretty stupid. From the part where they just had Ward just stand there looking at him all inconspicuous -like to the only means of pursuit being Coulson in a car. But then they revealed they had May shadowing Skye all along, so maybe they intentionally botched the chase.

Seeing the evil scientist at least get her comeuppance, and in rather painful and graphic fashion, was pretty satisfying. As was the "anonymous donation" to the dead agent's family. Hacker dude (and Skye) still got off far too lightly, though. Throw them in cells...

I'm guessing it's because of Halloween.

I'm almost 100% sure they botched the chase intentionally.

Skye I think got what she deserved, the loss of trust from people she's actually grown to like. Hacker dude is going to get his in a few weeks because being a transient in HONG KONG isn't a good recipe for living very long.

[BWR]

The show is slowly getting better. I still can't stand any of the main characters but the thickening plot is getting almost interesting.

Almost.

[Ascension]

So I appear in this thread again, several episodes later...

I'm still mostly enjoying the show, but it's really starting to bug me that they've got full access to the wonderfully huge source of inspiration that is the entire Marvel Universe to pull characters and/or plots from, and doing so would help them tap the potentially rabid devotion of a geek fanbase, and the most they're really doing with it is grabbing IM3 Extremis. I get that it's a SHIELD-focused show and not a superhero-focused show, but there's a ton of stuff out there in the MU they could use beyond just superheroes. Even the blatant wink-nudges to the comics fanbase (like the "journey into mystery" line) mostly dried up after the pilot.

I guess they're trying to stay well clear of stepping on the toes of any future movie developments, but it seems like there should be some things not off limits. And really, it also seems like Agents of SHIELD would be a nice place to help build up some of the less popular corners of the MU before future movies, as long as the characters' abilities are reasonably within television budget range. That long rumored Ant-Man movie, for instance, it seems like you could work an easy build to something like that into the show.

If they go through the weeks surrounding Thor: The Dark World's release without any kind of tie in with the movie, I'll definitely feel like this series is criminally underutilizing its resources.

[Eldan]

Platelets? Cytoskeleton?

Come on, guys. At least try with the technobabble.

[Reverent-One]

Platelets? Cytoskeleton?

Come on, guys. At least try with the technobabble.

Sounds like they are to me. You think them just making up things that don't exist would be better?

[Eldan]

No, that's just some random biology words. How would making platelets fireproof protect every other part of the body from burning?

[Doc Kraken]

The same way that living a few blocks from a nuclear power plant is considered grounds for pyrokinesis, I would assume. Or, for that matter, the way gamma radiation turns one into a giant green ragemonster. :smalltongue:

[Eldan]

True. I guess I just find technobabble more palatable if it isn't from my own field.

[Pink]

True. I guess I just find technobabble more palatable if it isn't from my own field.

That's kinda the point of technobabble, to be utter nonsense but sound reasonable to the layperson. So unfortunately you have ruined your own palate for bio-based techno-babble, you have no one to blame but yourself. :P

[Doc Kraken]

True. I guess I just find technobabble more palatable if it isn't from my own field.

Yeah, I had a couple questions about that too...but we're dealing with a universe where these things can and do actually happen, and it's a better reason for fire powers than "My sister's fiancee is hypercompetitive and also cosmic radiation.". So long as they put more effort into the technobabble than your average SyFy special, I'm satisfied.

And if it really bothers you, you can always assume they were lying to the expendable guinea pig. I don't think they actually said anything about platelets to anyone else.

[MikelaC1]

Platelets? Cytoskeleton?

Would you rather have metachlorines?

Im not sure where I stand on this show. Its average to good but not great; but still seems like it could have the potential to be so much more. I agree that the savvy street wise magician rolled over to complacent guinea pig much too easily and if I were any one of the other agents, I would seriously question allowing Skye to continue to work with them. But then, Ive got issues with traitors.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by StreamOfTheSky
I also thought the whole operation of trying to catch the hacker guy was pretty stupid. From the part where they just had Ward just stand there looking at him all inconspicuous -like to the only means of pursuit being Coulson in a car.

"Pretty stupid" describes it well enough. And I'm inclined to agree it was a double-blind setup, for Skye and Hacker Boy alike, because that was the worst street surveillance I could imagine. Ward is Bond Lite, so there's no way he's that incompetent.

Even if the writers didn't intend it this way, it only makes sense if you assume Ward was out there as spy-bait, and Coulson was there to give a convincing chase, allowing Hacker Boy to think he made it home safe.


Originally Posted by Kitten Champion
I just wish I liked the way the character is portrayed, she seems perpetually petulant and snarky -- I know people like her, so I can't say its unrealistic, but I don't especially like them.

Skye is one of the most tedious, annoying characters I've seen in a long time. --Granted, I don't watch much TV (Defiance was the last show I really followed) and yet she's a standout for just how shallow and irritating she can be. This is mainly the actress; the character could've been portrayed in a more complex and interesting fashion, but that's either beyond the abilities of the actress or the interests of the producers.

She tries to be so hip, clever, and thoroughly modern that she winds up as a flat caricature rather than an involving individual. Unfortunately Mei is going the same way. Fitz & Simmons are essentially one-dimensional, and it's really all on Coulson. He was Team Heart and then some in the final scenes.

They really need Akela back. She would mix things up.

(--Wait, I think there's another character on the team, just can't recall any personality there....)


Actually, the game of Battleship at the beginning was a nice bit of fun. It's good to see some ordinary downtime, and they did a decent (if blatantly predictable) job of nudging the chemistry (such as it is) between Ward and Skye along a little further.

Also, Ward's mumbled "You sunk my battleship" was hilarious. The character may be bland as unflavored yogurt, but the actor does have a knack or two.

Also....


Originally Posted by StreamOfTheSky
....to the only means of pursuit being Coulson in a car.

Yeah, it's not like they have DRONES or anything.

You know, tiny, inconspicuous drones that could cover entire streets at rooftop height. Nothin' like that.
.

[Eldan]

Would you rather have metachlorines?

Actually? Yeah. I find badly made up stuff less distasteful than wrongly applied real stuff.

[grolim]

Okay, for some reason "Scorch" is having some issues and decides to flame everything in sight. He toasts things, but Centipede was able to handle that, so why can't S.H.I.E.L.D.? Rather than make any serious attempt at containment, they basically let him self-destruct--in fact, they force it--in the process obliterating a treasure trove of hard resources and information on their new enemies.

That's just bone-stupid. Centipede had knockout gas, which worked like a charm, so why can't S.H.I.E.L.D. do the same?

And for that matter, the guy was under S.H.I.E.L.D. observation, and direct contact, which means they should be taking responsibility for him. And instead they choose to let him go critical? I'm starting to not like these people.


They showed him shooting himself up with their serum after they freed him. Centipede said it was temporary and would beef him up till it wore off. They probably judged his dosage and dropped him after his specifically chosen dosage wore off. For the fight in the show he was fully amped.



Quote:
Originally Posted by StreamOfTheSky
....to the only means of pursuit being Coulson in a car.
Yeah, it's not like they have DRONES or anything.

You know, tiny, inconspicuous drones that could cover entire streets at rooftop height. Nothin' like that.

You mean the dwarves? I do not think we know their range and speed. Haven't they only been used on small scale stuff in the room and mainly used as mobile sensors? If they are short range and slow they would work great for what we have seen so far and still not be good for field surveillance.

[Cikomyr]

That was fun; I gotta say.

A bit sad at Scorch's final outburst

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by grolim
You mean the dwarves? I do not think we know their range and speed. Haven't they only been used on small scale stuff in the room and mainly used as mobile sensors? If they are short range and slow they would work great for what we have seen so far and still not be good for field surveillance.

Agreed, so far we've only seen the Dwarves used for close-range forensic work. But if S.H.I.E.L.D. can outfit Fitz & Simmons with mobile toys, they can probably swing a couple of rooftop surveillance drones.

[HandofShadows]

Okay, for some reason "Scorch" is having some issues and decides to flame everything in sight. He toasts things, but Centipede was able to handle that, so why can't S.H.I.E.L.D.? Rather than make any serious attempt at containment, they basically let him self-destruct--in fact, they force it--in the process obliterating a treasure trove of hard resources and information on their new enemies.

That's just bone-stupid. Centipede had knockout gas, which worked like a charm, so why can't S.H.I.E.L.D. do the same?


Did SHEILD know were the controles were for the gas? Nope. Was Scortch in the place were he could be gased? Again, No. Can SHIELD just bring along it's own gas? That is really HARD to do. There are large tanks to worry about, getting the right amount on the target and of course surpising the taregt so they dou't hold thier breath. And lets not forget that they had something better, the trank gun. Problem is that it didn't work and frankly nomal gun would not have worked well either (melted lead does not do a lot of damage). The guy had just commited cold blooded murder and was off on a huge power trip and would have killed more people if he had escaped.

Surprised no one mentioned the TF2 reference in this episode. :)

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by HandofShadows
...melted lead does not do a lot of damage....

Lead melts at 621.5 °F. Pretty sure that'll do some damage.


Originally Posted by HandofShadows and Other People
*why using Centipede's gas wouldn't work*

These points are well-taken, and fine in themselves. In the situation that Mei and Coulson were in, even knowing that Centipede had knockout gas would have been nearly impossible, much less making ad hoc use of it.

My point was, this is S.H.I.E.L.D. They built a containment facility on the helicarrier for the Big Guy, a.k.a. Green Rage Monster, and they had every expectation that it would work. For them not to be able to contain Crispy Fire Boy is a little hard to imagine.


Originally Posted by HandofShadows
Surprised no one mentioned the TF2 reference in this episode.

Umm...what was that?

.

[datalaughing]

My point was, this is S.H.I.E.L.D. They built a containment facility on the helicarrier for the Big Guy, a.k.a. Green Rage Monster, and they had every expectation that it would work. For them not to be able to contain Crispy Fire Boy is a little hard to imagine.

Yeah, if they had time to prepare something, I'm sure they could have taken him out (which is one of the reasons super villains as a concept on this show will be difficult to pull off. SHIELD is essentially Batman or Harry Dresden in that, given enough time and foreknowledge with which to prepare, they could take on almost anything). There was no time to prepare. They laid on a very quick, improvised rescue operation. They were there to save him from kidnappers, and, as such, expected him to be an ally. So when he suddenly goes off the reservation they weren't really prepared with anti-pyrokinetic equipment. Not to mention that the serum jacked up his powers beyond anything they thought he was capable of. Then here's a fire guy murdering people and in danger of exploding any second from extremis. They didn't have time to go back to the plane and come up with a strategy. So they improvised.

Personally, I loved this episode.

[Arcas Corricol]

If some guys in hazmat suits can capture crappy guy who can't speak cantonese properly and can set himself on fire, then obviously they can just build a simple prison made of asbestos for him, screw the fact that he can die of cancer in there.

I would also like to rant about how they can't even speak cantonese properly, it's like they read from a script instead of speaking fluently the myriad of wrong pronunciations ticks me off so much, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D you have disappointed me again.

:belkar:

[McStabbington]

Yeah, if they had time to prepare something, I'm sure they could have taken him out (which is one of the reasons super villains as a concept on this show will be difficult to pull off. SHIELD is essentially Batman or Harry Dresden in that, given enough time and foreknowledge with which to prepare, they could take on almost anything). There was no time to prepare. They laid on a very quick, improvised rescue operation. They were there to save him from kidnappers, and, as such, expected him to be an ally. So when he suddenly goes off the reservation they weren't really prepared with anti-pyrokinetic equipment. Not to mention that the serum jacked up his powers beyond anything they thought he was capable of. Then here's a fire guy murdering people and in danger of exploding any second from extremis. They didn't have time to go back to the plane and come up with a strategy. So they improvised.

Personally, I loved this episode.

Eh, I loved it too, but then twenty minutes afterwards the seams started to become apparent as I thought about them. Skye's extended bra-and-panty scene. The obligatory car chase scene. The guy who seems sympathetic but turns out to be "kind of a tool." They were all there less because they fit the story, but because they fit the kind of action show SHIELD wanted to present, and so they just jammed it in.

I've compared the slow burn of SHIELD to Deep Space Nine before. Tonight, we were in Voyager territory. Specifically, the episode "Deadlock", which was fun until the moment you started thinking about why things were happening, and then things turned moronic.

[Cikomyr]

My point was, this is S.H.I.E.L.D. They built a containment facility on the helicarrier for the Big Guy, a.k.a. Green Rage Monster, and they had every expectation that it would work. For them not to be able to contain Crispy Fire Boy is a little hard to imagine.

SHIELD is an organisation who's hat is Crazy Prepared (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrazyPrepared).

They can deal with pretty much anything, as long as they have sufficient foreknowledge and preparation time. They knew they would have to deal with Banner one day, so their Hulkage made sense.

In that case? They did an emergency rescue of someone they expected to be in danger. They clearly did not planned on him being

1- Hostile
2- Overpowered

In fact, Centipede themselves was not expecting on Scorch being overpowered.

[Joran]

Lead melts at 621.5 °F. Pretty sure that'll do some damage.


Oh heck yes. Liquid lead may cause even more damage than regular lead. Just because the projectile is liquid, doesn't mean the kinetic energy suddenly dissipates. Anti-tank projectiles frequently are supersonic streams of molten metal.




My point was, this is S.H.I.E.L.D. They built a containment facility on the helicarrier for the Big Guy, a.k.a. Green Rage Monster, and they had every expectation that it would work. For them not to be able to contain Crispy Fire Boy is a little hard to imagine.


They actually did a pretty good job of preparing for Sparky Sparky Boom Man.

They knew they were going up against Extremis, so they brought the weapon that worked against the previous amped up guy: the Night-Night gun. That failed.

The problem now is not that Combustion Man can set things on fire, it's that he's a walking bomb that they no longer have a way to defuse because of Extremis. If he escapes the building, he's going to cause a lot of collateral damage, so they do the only thing they can do: trigger the explosion and shunt the damage into the sky.


P.S. In defense of the Cantonese, at least they hired a Hong Kong actor as the SHIELD agent and it was much better than the "Chinese" on Firefly. Baby steps.

[HamHam]

A better question is why Coulson just kept unloading the entire clip into an obvious fire shield.

It's like he's never been in a gimmicky boss battle before.

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

A better question is why Coulson just kept unloading the entire clip into an obvious fire shield.

It's like he's never been in a gimmicky boss battle before.

That was my big let down, right after he says "I'm out" the sheild goes down, I expected him to shot againa s the guy turned and say "or not"

[Joran]

That was my big let down, right after he says "I'm out" the sheild goes down, I expected him to shot againa s the guy turned and say "or not"

Same here.

Maybe Coulson got caught up in the heat of the moment. (sorry)

[huttj509]

That was my big let down, right after he says "I'm out" the sheild goes down, I expected him to shot againa s the guy turned and say "or not"

"I'm out."
Fire drops, Coulson shoots, Scorch incinerates it with a blast from his hand.
"Worth a shot."

[BRC]

I really liked this episode.

Ever since the end of the second episode I was worried that they were going to make the Rising Tide into the Anti-SHIELD, a big, evil, hyper competent conspiracy, and that Skye was supposed to be some sort of mastermind who would play the whole team for fools for an entire season.

This episode seems to indicate that no, the rising tide is just an idealistic hacker collective made up of very human members with their own agendas, flaws, and weaknesses.

Meanwhile this "Centipede" organization is far more interesting as an antagonist, with the Rising Tide as part of the background.

Also, I think Skye grew a lot in this episode, she's now a character I'm far more interested in watching.

[Neftren]

And here I was thinking we'd have the next Human Torch.


I guess I was wrong.... (somebody else owns the rights to X-Men Fantastic Four right?)

[StreamOfTheSky]

Are they really skipping a week because Halloween is falling two days after the next episode would? I love the holiday, too, but that seems kind of silly unless the network is skipping that week for all their shows for some reason.


And here I was thinking we'd have the next Human Torch.


I guess I was wrong.... (somebody else owns the rights to X-Men right?)

Human Torch is Fantastic Four...

[Neftren]

Are they really skipping a week because Halloween is falling two days after the next episode would? I love the holiday, too, but that seems kind of silly unless the network is skipping that week for all their shows for some reason.



Human Torch is Fantastic Four...

Errr, right, sorry. :smallredface:

My brain is still not quite working after a double-all-nighter last week.

My point stands though. Somebody else owns the rights... right?

[Clertar]

P.S. In defense of the Cantonese, at least they hired a Hong Kong actor as the SHIELD agent and it was much better than the "Chinese" on Firefly. Baby steps.

To be honest, the Chinese phrases used in Firefly were not meant to be native-level utterances, but a sort of pidgin-slang used by non-natives.

[HandofShadows]

Umm...what was that?

http://youtu.be/WUhOnX8qt3I?t=2m5s

And compare that to how the one Agent died. :smallbiggrin:


Oh heck yes. Liquid lead may cause even more damage than regular lead. Just because the projectile is liquid, doesn't mean the kinetic energy suddenly dissipates. Anti-tank projectiles frequently are supersonic streams of molten metal.


Sorry, that is a very bad anology. The HEAT round has many many more orders of magnitude of energy involved and concentrates that energy into a very small area. Look up the Monroe Effect. That is not happening the molten lead as it is a just a blob moving at a fast speed. Kinetic energy will be transfered, but it would be on the order of being punched. Certainly not enough to stop the guy or even slow him down very much.

[JadedDM]

And here I was thinking we'd have the next Human Torch.


I guess I was wrong.... (somebody else owns the rights to X-Men Fantastic Four right?)

Yep, FOX owns the rights to both X-men and the Fantastic Four.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

A better question is why Coulson just kept unloading the entire clip into an obvious fire shield.

It's like he's never been in a gimmicky boss battle before.
Alternately, it's the gimmicky boss battle where you have to use one of your weapons to force the boss to use up their shield, then switch to the other one so that you can attack them for real. :smallwink:

And I'm positive that this episode was a knowing nod to the Human Torch, the best they could manage since they don't have the rights.

[Lucid]

And I'm positive that this episode was a knowing nod to the Human Torch, the best they could manage since they don't have the rights. I saw it more as a reference to mutants, especially with the whole 'we know there are people with powers around the world, and we're keeping tabs on them.' Plus, didn't somebody explicitly call it a mutation?

I'm enjoying the show so far, but I can't really call it good, even though it's slowly getting better. I don't mind it being cliched, but I can't be the only one seeing a lot of wasted potential.
I really want them to kick up a notch on the centipede stuff (I'm hoping it turns out to be A.I.M./Hydra), this show needs an overarching plot other than the mysteries of Coulson and Mei.
It looks like it might even be next episode we'll get to know more, judging from the ending scene and the preview.Which shows a Chitauri helmet

[Reverent-One]

And I'm positive that this episode was a knowing nod to the Human Torch, the best they could manage since they don't have the rights.

Seems more like Sunfire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunfire_(comics)) to me, who they also likely can't actually manage since he's a mutant.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Seems more like Sunfire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunfire_(comics)) to me, who they also likely can't actually manage since he's a mutant.
Oooh. (I'm a little lax on my supers knowledge.)

[Tyrant]

Are we sure that the licenses held by Fox and Sony for X-Men and Spider Man respectively would interfere with a T.V. show? I would think the licenses are only for movies, since Marvel keeps putting out cartoons that cross over whoever they want to. Even though SHIELD is set in the same universe as the movies, it is not a movie. I'm just curious as I do not know the extent of the various deals Marvel has made.

[Reverent-One]

Are we sure that the licenses held by Fox and Sony for X-Men and Spider Man respectively would interfere with a T.V. show? I would think the licenses are only for movies, since Marvel keeps putting out cartoons that cross over whoever they want to. Even though SHIELD is set in the same universe as the movies, it is not a movie. I'm just curious as I do not know the extent of the various deals Marvel has made.

Good question. After doing a little poking around, it seems like in original contracts, they also sold the live-action tv rights along with the movie rights. Apparently in an update of their contract with Sony, Marvel did get all TV show rights back for Spidey, but that's all I can find.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Good question. After doing a little poking around, it seems like in original contracts, they also sold the live-action tv rights along with the movie rights. Apparently in an update of their contract with Sony, Marvel did get all TV show rights back for Spidey, but that's all I can find.
<J.K. Simmons voice>I NEED CAMEOS OF SPIDER-MAN, NOW!</J.K. Simmons voice>

[Iskandar]

BTW, I think the reason they are skipping next week is baseball's World Series. Even though not on that night, it is on most other nights, so they are probably just not running any new episodes of any show that week at all.

[Cikomyr]

BTW, I think the reason they are skipping next week is baseball's World Series. Even though not on that night, it is on most other nights, so they are probably just not running any new episodes of any show that week at all.

Sad, but makes sense :smallannoyed:

Bloody baseball. I don't see no series held up for the Stanley Cup finales

[Philistine]

Sad, but makes sense :smallannoyed:

Bloody baseball. I don't see no series held up for the Stanley Cup finales

Indeed. If you had to guess, why would you say that is? :smallamused:

[Cikomyr]

Indeed. If you had to guess, why would you say that is? :smallamused:

I refuse to answer that question on the ground of not humilating the best sport in the universe. :smallwink:

[Dienekes]

I refuse to answer that question on the ground of not humilating the best sport in the universe. :smallwink:

Calvinball?

No, but most sports are pretty boring to watch. Play? Lots of fun. Watch? Dear God turn it off.

[Chen]

Sorry, that is a very bad anology. The HEAT round has many many more orders of magnitude of energy involved and concentrates that energy into a very small area. Look up the Monroe Effect. That is not happening the molten lead as it is a just a blob moving at a fast speed. Kinetic energy will be transfered, but it would be on the order of being punched. Certainly not enough to stop the guy or even slow him down very much.

I can't really think of a good reason why the bullet would be much less deadly if it were liquid instead of solid. The shield was too close to him for a liquid to really disperse much so its going to be roughly the same mass hitting him at roughly the same speed. It would deform a bit more when hitting him, but liquid lead is still extremely dense (~94% as dense as when its a solid).

[HandofShadows]

I refuse to answer that question on the ground of not humilating the best sport in the universe. :smallwink:

It's ok to say Grifball. :smallbiggrin:

[Mordar]

Well, that was mildly entertaining.

Okay, for some reason "Scorch" is having some issues and decides to flame everything in sight. He toasts things, but Centipede was able to handle that, so why can't S.H.I.E.L.D.? Rather than make any serious attempt at containment, they basically let him self-destruct--in fact, they force it--in the process obliterating a treasure trove of hard resources and information on their new enemies.

Consider that by the time SHIELD arrives he has since been tortured and harvested, while earlier he was being ego-stroked (see below). His state of mind is radically different, he takes a much larger dose of the Extremis solution *and* is in mind-altering pain from the burns.

The Extremis alone is enough to lead to a catastrophic event without any known method for termination - remember, Hydra Centipede commented that it was only his magic blood that kept him from incinerating, and they were taking that to help their Extremis subjects survive longer. While it was unfortunate, I think it was an inevitable end for Scorch.


And back to stupid:

So, this Hong Kong street magician has just been lied to, seized, beaten and abducted. Naturally, when he wakes up, all it takes is ninety seconds of sweet-talk from Mystery Flower Dress Babe and he's ready to forgive, forget and be experimented on?

You'd think a street performer would have, I dunno, a better sense of street smarts. Besides, "Scorch" is just plain stupid.

When first introduced, it seemed to me she had some kind of ace up her sleeve, and her ability to smooth over the whole kidnapping solidified that belief for me. While it could be bad writing, I really think she has power - in fact, in line with the comment below, I was thinking she was a Viper analog.

Hydra Centipede is at least a thematic child of Hydra or AIM, and Viper was a key recruiter for Hydra. It makes sense that they would reuse that trope - even though the film Wolverine probably limits the value in reusing the specific character, despite their bastardization - and their evasiveness in naming her the Woman in the Flower Dress along with her smooth presentation screams "manipulation power".

In short, I think what you identified above was a feature, not a bug.


Seems more like Sunfire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunfire_(comics)) to me, who they also likely can't actually manage since he's a mutant.

Get out of my head! :smallsmile:

Absolutely what I thought as well - at least a thematic child if not an actual representation. Plus it goes nicely with my thought above...

...given the Viper connection to Silver Samurai and Sunfire.

- M

[RoboChap]

BTW, I think the reason they are skipping next week is baseball's World Series. Even though not on that night, it is on most other nights, so they are probably just not running any new episodes of any show that week at all.

That's disappointing...I had been told that the gap was because they wanted to feature a semi-tie-in to Thor 2, and so pushed back the episode by a week due to the staggered release of the film so it was still the "current" episode regardless of when the film was out in your region (for example I will be seeing Thor 2 in London on Saturday, the main UK release is the 30th October, but I believe it's not out until around the 6th November in America?)

[StreamOfTheSky]

I still haven't forgiven the World Series for the time in college all the idiots went rioting because the red sox won, and torched dumpsters, vandalized cars, streaked, and other mind-numbingly stupid asinine juvenile bs. I just sat in my dorm room, but still got hit with the same ~ $300 fee for the mayhem that all the other students did. :smallfurious:

[Arcas Corricol]

point taken Joran but the speaking still wasn't fluent enough either that or there was a sudden fluctuation of the voice (voice breaking, phlegm in throat, mood)

:belkar:

[Joran]

point taken Joran but the speaking still wasn't fluent enough either that or there was a sudden fluctuation of the voice (voice breaking, phlegm in throat, mood)

:belkar:

How were Agent May's and Agent Redshirt's (RIP) accents? I speak Mandarin, but Cantonese has way too many tones ;)

[Sith_Happens]

Consider that by the time SHIELD arrives he has since been tortured and harvested, while earlier he was being ego-stroked (see below). His state of mind is radically different, he takes a much larger dose of the Extremis solution *and* is in mind-altering pain from the burns.

The Extremis alone is enough to lead to a catastrophic event without any known method for termination - remember, Hydra Centipede commented that it was only his magic blood that kept him from incinerating, and they were taking that to help their Extremis subjects survive longer. While it was unfortunate, I think it was an inevitable end for Scorch.

Also remember that Centipede's serum isn't just Extremis. It has the defective supersoldier serum from Incredible Hulk in it too, which is "defective" by merit of its tendency to make people go crazy.

[RandomNPC]

Centipede is said in the first episode to be "Every known source of supers, Gamma, Alien Metal, Super Soldier, etc." I don't recall the entire list.

Colson Rant
As much as people like Colson the best, I'm surprised I haven't seen more speculation, so I'm tossing in my two cents, this is just what I saw, I haven't googled it yet.

Episode 1: "He can never know."
Yea something's up, but we don't know what. His gestures and arm movements are short and quick, but let's chalk that up to recovering agent.

Episode 2: A trained soldier punches him in the face and shakes his hand like the pain surprises him. I think the guy punched metal.

Episode 3: He's rusty with a gun to the point of not being able to work the slide to clear a jam. Then when he shoots the window out from beneath the scientist, he stands there for a moment before jumping and grabbing a pipe to hold on to, I think he was on the window to, and that means he was flying for a brief moment before his programing kicked in and said as a human that wouldn't make sense. He's going to remember it differently to subconsciously cover the issue, but Vision can fly can't he?
Then May steps out of "Drive the bus" and offers to fight next time, I figure it's to keep him from being damaged to the point where robot bits show.

Episode 4: Girl knocks out a lamp and looks at May with x-ray, see's her full body suit as one solid mass, that means it's not only body armor, but it's probably radiation shielding as well, at the least. With X-ray still active, she looks at Colson when he comes in and sees something the audience doesn't. At the end of the episode she asks about it, and May asks her what she's talking about, with an odd tone. She then changes her tune and says "Oh, never mind." as if it was nothing.

Episode 5: At the end he plugged the SD card in and it put everything on the big screen without him doing to much to his phone/device/thing. I'll sum that up to movie magic, but it seemed convenient, I'd hate to have my device openly auto-display possibly sensitive material every time it reads new data.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Mordar
His state of mind is radically different, he takes a much larger dose of the Extremis solution *and* is in mind-altering pain from the burns.

Very good points, although it's debatable how much of this S.H.I.E.L.D. actually knows in the moment. However, given the regrettably large hole burned into Agent Kwan that was mentioned above, I can see how Coulson would think, "Yeah...." and go from there.



...But they're S.H.I.E.L.D., gorrammit!

*mutter mutter mumble S.H.I.E.L.D. mumble mutter grump*


Originally Posted by Mordar
When first introduced, it seemed to me she had some kind of ace up her sleeve, and her ability to smooth over the whole kidnapping solidified that belief for me. While it could be bad writing, I really think she has power - in fact, in line with the comment below, I was thinking she was a Viper analog.

Also a very good point, and something that plain hadn't occurred to me.

Plausible in theory, but it didn't feel that way. We shall see.

Also...


Originally Posted by Mordar
...Silver Samurai....

O gawd. You fiend! Now I must unpack my old issues of classic X-Men.

*shakes fist at Mordar*

*looks for bokken behind the bed*


Originally Posted by Cikomyr
I don't see no series held up for the Stanley Cup finales....

Stanley Cup...isn't that the one with the sailing boats? That they had in San Francisco or something?

:smallbiggrin:

.

[LaZodiac]

Centipede is said in the first episode to be "Every known source of supers, Gamma, Alien Metal, Super Soldier, etc." I don't recall the entire list.

Colson Rant
As much as people like Colson the best, I'm surprised I haven't seen more speculation, so I'm tossing in my two cents, this is just what I saw, I haven't googled it yet.

Episode 1: "He can never know."
Yea something's up, but we don't know what. His gestures and arm movements are short and quick, but let's chalk that up to recovering agent.

Episode 2: A trained soldier punches him in the face and shakes his hand like the pain surprises him. I think the guy punched metal.

Episode 3: He's rusty with a gun to the point of not being able to work the slide to clear a jam. Then when he shoots the window out from beneath the scientist, he stands there for a moment before jumping and grabbing a pipe to hold on to, I think he was on the window to, and that means he was flying for a brief moment before his programing kicked in and said as a human that wouldn't make sense. He's going to remember it differently to subconsciously cover the issue, but Vision can fly can't he?
Then May steps out of "Drive the bus" and offers to fight next time, I figure it's to keep him from being damaged to the point where robot bits show.

Episode 4: Girl knocks out a lamp and looks at May with x-ray, see's her full body suit as one solid mass, that means it's not only body armor, but it's probably radiation shielding as well, at the least. With X-ray still active, she looks at Colson when he comes in and sees something the audience doesn't. At the end of the episode she asks about it, and May asks her what she's talking about, with an odd tone. She then changes her tune and says "Oh, never mind." as if it was nothing.

Episode 5: At the end he plugged the SD card in and it put everything on the big screen without him doing to much to his phone/device/thing. I'll sum that up to movie magic, but it seemed convenient, I'd hate to have my device openly auto-display possibly sensitive material every time it reads new data.



I think the reason there is less speculation is because it's just kind of explicit at this point that he's a life model duplicate. However, thanks for pointing out some of these, because I didn't notice the soldier hurting his hand punching him. Also, I'd call the flying part as just movie magic. You also missed in the first episode how he (a "rusty" agent) limbo dodges a door being smashed towards him.

[Neftren]

Stanley Cup...isn't that the one with the sailing boats? That they had in San Francisco or something?

You're thinking of the America's Cup. Stanley Cup is Hockey. :smallwink:

Unless you already knew that and I missed some sort of subtext that I wasn't supposed to. :smallredface:


How were Agent May's and Agent Redshirt's (RIP) accents? I speak Mandarin, but Cantonese has way too many tones ;)

I'd just like to point out that Ming Na Wen (a.k.a. Melinda May) was born in Macau, lived in Hong Kong, then moved to Queens (my guess would be Flushing, NY).

I'm not sure who you mean by Agent Redshirt... do you mean Quan Chen (the S.H.I.E.L.D Handler)? He's played by Tzi Ma I think, if he is who I think he is (Rush Hour anyone?), anyways, he's a Hong Kong native.

They both speak what is essentially as close to standard Cantonese as you can get. May sounded a little clipped and forced, but I'd attribute that to the cheesy script over anything else. And I actually do appreciate them for going the lengths to recording in Cantonese for a scene in Hong Kong, and also getting the Cantonese spoken part actually match up reasonably well with the intended English translation, unlike a certain Steve Martin movie involving a diamond... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16laJlacyWE).


The one person who sounded really off was the actor who played Scorch. Now, there's a lot of variation within the entire Yue family of languages, but he definitely did not sound at all like a native speaker.

[Sholos]

I'd just like to say that Chloe Bennet is HOT! That is all.

[Lorsa]

I still haven't forgiven the World Series for the time in college all the idiots went rioting because the red sox won, and torched dumpsters, vandalized cars, streaked, and other mind-numbingly stupid asinine juvenile bs. I just sat in my dorm room, but still got hit with the same ~ $300 fee for the mayhem that all the other students did. :smallfurious:

Is that legal?

[Mauve Shirt]

Well, I think that may have been the best episode so far. Agent Agent even emoted a little bit about Hacker Boyfriend! I mean it's forced for that to happen, but he made a complicated face shape, so I'm proud.

[dehro]

I'd just like to say that Chloe Bennet is HOT! That is all.

she is that

on a side note.. I do find it very.. american that they call their baseball league playoffs the world series, lol
there's some justification to it..but it's still rather silly

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Neftren
You're thinking of the America's Cup. Stanley Cup is Hockey.

Unless you already knew that and I missed some sort of subtext that I wasn't supposed to.

Yeah, I was being a Dumb American. It comes so naturally it fools people.

:smallbiggrin:


Originally Posted by dehro
on a side note.. I do find it very.. american that they call their baseball league playoffs the world series, lol
there's some justification to it..but it's still rather silly

Well, we have a pretty-person contest called Miss Universe, and it's confined to a single planet. Go figure.

:smalltongue:



As for the World Series...I'm not a baseball person, so no sympathy for the reshuffling of TV schedules on that account. I'm also convinced that the World Series--or Fox's idiotic scheduling of same--helped to kill Terranova, because for a while there were hardly two episodes in a row, thanks to spillover and outright preemption by the World Series.

Granted, Terranova had bushels of other issues, but the constant interference from the World Series made it virtually impossible for regular viewers to follow along enough to care. As far as I'm concerned, keep sports on ESPN or whatever. Don't touch my dinosaurs.

[Talyn]

So, having finally had a chance to watch this week's episode:

It looks like Skye has a "type." I mean, look at Ward and the hacker boyfriend next to each other - give Agent Ward a week's worth of beard and some exceedingly poor fashion sense, and you'd have trouble telling them apart. So Skye seems to have a thing for tall, broad-shouldered dark-haired men with pointy features and a bit of a superiority complex.

Meanwhile, Ward has really blossomed in these last two episodes. I think there are both in-universe and out-of-universe reasons for this. Out-of-universe, I think the writers are taking to heart criticism that Ward was, frankly, a little stiff and boring (I personally disagree, but I can see why lots of people thought this), and are giving the character some good lines and some more "human" moments to correct this. In-universe, it would make sense that Ward, after a few successful missions and some mandatory socialization, has become much more comfortable around Coulson (who he clearly had some hero-worship issues for at first), Fitzsimmons (who he felt he had nothing in common with), and Skye (who he thought was a threat AND he thought was cute, both of which set off alarm bells for him). All this means that he didn't feel the need to keep his "all business, all the time, I'm elite" front up around them - they aren't just his coworkers/boss who he needs to impress, they are his friends.

Of course, one of the reasons you don't HAVE friends in the super-spy business is so that it doesn't hurt when they betray you; Ward definitely took Skye's actions in this last episode personally, even though he's trying to mask it (unlike Coulson, who isn't even trying). I wonder if that means he'll stiffen up again next episode as a defense mechanism - I hope not, though it would make sense for the character. I really like slightly-more-relaxed Ward.

[Cikomyr]

Stanley Cup...isn't that the one with the sailing boats? That they had in San Francisco or something?

:smallbiggrin:


:smallmad: :smallfurious: :smallfurious: :smallmad: :smallfurious: :smallmad: :smallfurious:

HERESY!!!!
http://cdn.meme.li/instances/37361053.jpg

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Talyn
Meanwhile, Ward has really blossomed in these last two episodes. ...I think the writers are taking to heart criticism that Ward was, frankly, a little stiff and boring....

That would be nice, but I don't think they can react that fast. These first episodes were probably written quite a while ago, and they probably had in mind to let him gradually loosen up.

Also, while I see your overall point, I would say that "blossomed" is quite a strong word for Ward's sparse, muted flickers of incipient personality. But it's all relative.

:smalltongue:




Originally Posted by Cikomyr
*thundering anathema and threats of hideous vengeance*

o gawd i can't stop laughing.

:smallbiggrin:

Seriously, I know what the Stanley Cup is. I don't follow the sport, but my father grew up in New England, and he played hockey on the frozen lakes in wintertime. He bought a new color TV specifically for the 1980 Winter Olympics.


Still can't stop laughing, though....

:smalltongue:

[Talya]

I'm very much enjoying Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. while I watch it. The problem is afterward, I don't think about it. Arrow (or Grimm, or The Blacklist, or White Collar, etc.) leaves me anxiously awaiting the next show, while AoS is a forgettable "out of sight, out of mind." They need to stop being so completely episodic and ramp up the story arc.

[dehro]

Out-of-universe, I think the writers are taking to heart criticism that Ward was, frankly, a little stiff and boring (I personally disagree, but I can see why lots of people thought this), and are giving the character some good lines and some more "human" moments to correct this.
unlikely... by the time those criticisms came around, they probably were already in post production if they hadn't finished already

[Flickerdart]

Personally, I want to know why Haiti is a magical place.

[snoopy13a]

Personally, I want to know why Haiti is a magical place.

Haiti isn't; Tahiti is :smallsmile:

[Talya]

Haiti isn't; Tahiti is :smallsmile:

Haiti is magical too. It's just that the magic in Haiti takes the form of voodoo curses.

[Ravian]

Haiti is magical too. It's just that the magic in Haiti takes the form of voodoo curses.

Also horrible widespread poverty, but Voodoo is nice too.

[Talya]

Also horrible widespread poverty, but Voodoo is nice too.

Indeed. Sadly, Haiti appears to exist to make the Dominicans think their economy is pretty good.

[DigoDragon]

Finally caught the latest episode today. Pretty good... mostly.
Does SHIELD really have no hackers of their own? I felt like the whole subplot of Sky betraying Coulson actually detracted from the episode. Personally I'd rather put an outsider character that doesn't come with extra baggage.

Coulson's mysterious background is much more interesting. Maybe they should have him start to wonder and dig into SHIELD archives.

[snoopy13a]

Indeed. Sadly, Haiti appears to exist to make the Dominicans think their economy is pretty good.

What?! Haiti and the Dominican Republic are on the same island?! It's a bit strange how the world works. An island separated by two languages (and I guess a small mountain range). Haiti just might be the poorest place in the Western Hemisphere.

The Dominican does have many good baseball players, however.

[BRC]

Finally caught the latest episode today. Pretty good... mostly.
Does SHIELD really have no hackers of their own? I felt like the whole subplot of Sky betraying Coulson actually detracted from the episode. Personally I'd rather put an outsider character that doesn't come with extra baggage.

Coulson's mysterious background is much more interesting. Maybe they should have him start to wonder and dig into SHIELD archives.


SHIELD probably has Hackers, they're probably busy doing other things (Like keeping an eye on what Tony Stark is doing). Coulson's team has Skye. They didn't have time to call in another hacker.

Personally, I liked how they handled Skye's betrayal. I was worried that they were going to make her out like some sort of genius mastermind enacting part of some scheme on behalf of the Rising Tide, which would have made both her character and the Rising Tide really annoying.
Well, more annoying.
Instead she just has a personal agenda, and was just texting her boyfriend, and the Rising Tide is just a bunch of pseudoanarchist hackers with no agenda beyond "Sticking It To The Man".
Meanwhile Centapede makes a much better antagonist than the Rising Tide.

The issue with Coulson's Identity is that it makes a better mystery than anything. Lets say they DO reveal that Coulson is an LMD. Well, then he's an LMD, it's a nice reveal, but where do they go from there.
Okay, they could go into some transhumanist exploration. Plus they could milk the idea of Phil "Meekest Guy Ever" Coulson with superpowers.

Personally, I like the idea of Phil Coulson being cloned, Paranoia style. He volunteered for the experiment a few years back. At some point he'll die, and another Phil Cloneson will show up.
He will become Kenny.

[HandofShadows]

Sorry, there is evidence that Coulson is not a clone. The lady from the last episode would not have noticed anything wrong with him as clones are biological. Also not an LMD since they would clearly show up to her as being an android. Instead she asks "What did they do to him?"

[BRC]

Sorry, there is evidence that Coulson is not a clone. The lady from the last episode would not have noticed anything wrong with him as clones are biological. Also not an LMD since they would clearly show up to her as being an android. Instead she asks "What did they do to him?"


He could have cyborg bits to download his memories into the clone body.

But I don't think that's likely, I just think it would be fun. Also I live the name "Phil Cloneson".

[Karoht]

Sorry, there is evidence that Coulson is not a clone. The lady from the last episode would not have noticed anything wrong with him as clones are biological. Also not an LMD since they would clearly show up to her as being an android. Instead she asks "What did they do to him?"


Some cybernetic pieces rather than lots of cybernetic pieces?
Hmmm.
6 million dollar man, anyone?

That could explain his fascination with old fashioned things and heroes like the Capt. He knows technology is changing him, and it's making him even more aware of his own mortality, along with reminiscent of a simpler time.
Makes you wonder how old Coulson really is.

[Cikomyr]

People, I present you the Latest Trailer for The Winter Soldier (http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi3370297369/).

Seems to me Cap is going to... upset SHIELD's Status Quo.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Flickerdart
Personally, I want to know why Haiti is a magical place.

Did you really think it was Haiti, or is this some involute bit of humor?


Originally Posted by Karoht
That could explain his fascination with old fashioned things and heroes like the Capt.

Coulson's interest in collecting was evidently part of his character well before he actually met Captain America, which is why they had that embarrassing fanboy moment in the S.H.I.E.L.D. hoverjet. I doubt Coulson's appreciation of vintage items is tied in any way to his new life; it feels to me like the writers took his interest in vintage trading cards, as presented in the movie, and extrapolated to a more general interest.

[Kitten Champion]

People, I present you the Latest Trailer for The Winter Soldier (http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi3370297369/).

Seems to me Cap is going to... upset SHIELD's Status Quo.

Well, it looks better than Thor's upcoming picture.

I do wonder if the movies are going to integrate into the television show's setting. I hope so. I agree with criticisms that Agents of SHIELD is under-utilizing the setting considerably. Replace a few names here or there, and this could be any run-of-the-mill technothriller.

[Karoht]

Coulson's interest in collecting was evidently part of his character well before he actually met Captain America, which is why they had that embarrassing fanboy moment in the S.H.I.E.L.D. hoverjet. I doubt Coulson's appreciation of vintage items is tied in any way to his new life; it feels to me like the writers took his interest in vintage trading cards, as presented in the movie, and extrapolated to a more general interest.
I'm not entirely sure.
Everyone is assuming that Coulson wasn't already 'special' in some way before the Avengers. Or before Iron Man.

[Joran]

People, I present you the Latest Trailer for The Winter Soldier (http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi3370297369/).

Seems to me Cap is going to... upset SHIELD's Status Quo.

Another site pointed out that currently Agents of SHIELD is having us root FOR the secret government organization in the black helicopters (actually jet, but whatever).

I hope we get into the darker side of SHIELD like the part that tried to nuke NYC.


I do wonder if the movies are going to integrate into the television show's setting. I hope so. I agree with criticisms that Agents of SHIELD is under-utilizing the setting considerably. Replace a few names here or there, and this could be any run-of-the-mill technothriller.

They're doing a good job of inserting little callbacks here and there and referencing stuff from the movies (Coulson with the little door explosive: "I love these things"), but AoS hasn't really covered anything new. I wonder if Marvel has some directives regarding the stuff that AoS can cover.

[Mauve Shirt]

Another site pointed out that currently Agents of SHIELD is having us root FOR the secret government organization in the black helicopters (actually jet, but whatever).

I hope we get into the darker side of SHIELD like the part that tried to nuke NYC.

I think it's refreshing to see "Big govt. vs. Anarchy" from the government's point of view for once. It would be interesting to delve into the evil version of SHIELD and see what the "Anarchy has points but Govt is ultimately good(-hearted)" attitude morphs into.

[LaZodiac]

I think it's refreshing to see "Big govt. vs. Anarchy" from the government's point of view for once. It would be interesting to delve into the evil version of SHIELD and see what the "Anarchy has points but Govt is ultimately good(-hearted)" attitude morphs into.

I think we saw that during the scene when the Council decided to just nuke Manhatten, and Nick Fury shot his own jet fighter with a bazooka.

Which side is which is open to interpretation.

[Cikomyr]

o gawd i can't stop laughing.

:smallbiggrin:

Seriously, I know what the Stanley Cup is. I don't follow the sport, but my father grew up in New England, and he played hockey on the frozen lakes in wintertime. He bought a new color TV specifically for the 1980 Winter Olympics.


Still can't stop laughing, though....

:smalltongue:


Good

Pffff!! My vengence will be eternal!!!On your son, his son, and his son!!!

[thorgrim29]

So, how many helicarriers will the go through before they stop making MCU movies? My money's on 5

[Friv]

So, how many helicarriers will the go through before they stop making MCU movies? My money's on 5

Oh, please. I bet they go through 5 helicarriers before Avengers 2. :smallwink:

[Tyrant]

Good question. After doing a little poking around, it seems like in original contracts, they also sold the live-action tv rights along with the movie rights. Apparently in an update of their contract with Sony, Marvel did get all TV show rights back for Spidey, but that's all I can find.
That's interesting. I would've figured Fox would find a way to milk a live action X-spinoff at this point if it were in their power to do so. They're probably still stuck on how to have it center around Wolverine like the rest of the live action X Universe but without using Jackman.

[Hopeless]

1) Regarding Coulson
I still think Coulson is the Original Human Torch, he may have lost his original memories and is Phil Coulson but last nights episode made me wish that Scorch did try to catch Coulson in his fire only for it to just burn his clothes leaving him untouched (and maybe in his baby outfit if you know what I mean!:smallsmile:).

It would explain how he survived Avengers since he only needed a little down time to repair himself since the Original Human Torch Jim Hammond I think his name was has the same sort of special blood as Scorch except his has a healing factor effect at least on other people in addition to fire & heat resistance.

2)Regarding SHIELD and the Shadow Council
I suspect Nick Fury arranged Coulson's own team for precisely that reason!
I think he knew SHIELD was having internal problems after all remember all those other organisations who didn't like SHIELD from the Avengers movie?

3) How the Scorch was lost
Seriously they detected a hack and they automatically suspect Skye even though they would have been able to tell if she had been behind it?!

Yes she is on the inside but still you really think she could pull that off even though it would have been clear she didn't even know they had a list of powered people only tried to warn the guy from the pilot because she wasn't aware about why SHIELD was hunting them?
Only that they were and her own efforts led her to Centipede which made it even stranger she never mentioned that to her boyfriend given they were supposed to be so close she even texted him to let him know she was ok?!

4) Skye's now Ex-boyfriend
I would have had a second agent off that plane with a ticket and funds to get him back to Maine giving Skye's boyfriend the idea he would be getting back at SHIELD as they use him to track down the rest of those entymology research places...

5) God AIM or whoever they are, are seriously dumb!

You have a research subject whose blood has a possible cure and you transfuse all he had at that point and essentially leave him to die?

My god they only had to make an occasional withdrawal and get him trained as one of their own, it wouldn't take much just play up how SHIELD stiffed him... seriously he was far more valuable alive and they don't take out the hacker once he did their job?

Now that was even worse, he was by far the more disposable, it amazes me no one has yet mentioned just how idiotic their tactics were.

Oh and they killed off the doctor from the pilot episode... well okay I guess she doesn't have to worry about being asked back save maybe in a flashback episode or a cameo as someone else...

Apologies but that 5th point rather annoyed me!:smallfurious:

[Hopeless]

Is it bad that I'd like an episode where we have Coulson and his team hunt down someone who infiltrated SHIELD and evaded capture only for rumours to be picked up they're in London?

Have them turn up trying to locate a certain suspect only to discover the infiltrator set them up just so she could give Coulson a hug and tell him she's glad he's okay before escaping...

Sorry but I really like to see them face someone on the Natasha Romanoff level of skill who is able to literally outclass them but does so for the right reasons and maybe throw in the hints as shown in that new cap trailer where SHIELD might not be the good guy they're assumed to be...

Then maybe we get another SLJ cameo where we learn that's why he agreed to Coulson leading his own team in the first place!

Could have that infiltrator set this up to make sure a stolen fission device is safely disposed of, could even have a sequel or two where we learn she's being hunted because she possesses SHIELD secrets which she seems reluctant to reveal but those in charge want her dead or alive!

Might make an interesting recurring character for the team to cope against who isn't interested in killing or selling secrets to the higher bidder but someone on the outside trying to do the right thing and this might inspire this series to do better to show they're doing the same inside the system!

Sorry I hope that makes sense!

PS That Cap trailer are they insinuating that Senator played by Robert Redford is Dell Rusk?:smallwink:

[RoboChap]

Is it bad that I'd like an episode where we have Coulson and his team hunt down someone who infiltrated SHIELD and evaded capture only for rumours to be picked up they're in London?

Have them turn up trying to locate a certain suspect only to discover the infiltrator set them up just so she could give Coulson a hug and tell him she's glad he's okay before escaping...

Sorry but I really like to see them face someone on the Natasha Romanoff level of skill who is able to literally outclass them but does so for the right reasons and maybe throw in the hints as shown in that new cap trailer where SHIELD might not be the good guy they're assumed to be...

Then maybe we get another SLJ cameo where we learn that's why he agreed to Coulson leading his own team in the first place!

Could have that infiltrator set this up to make sure a stolen fission device is safely disposed of, could even have a sequel or two where we learn she's being hunted because she possesses SHIELD secrets which she seems reluctant to reveal but those in charge want her dead or alive!

Might make an interesting recurring character for the team to cope against who isn't interested in killing or selling secrets to the higher bidder but someone on the outside trying to do the right thing and this might inspire this series to do better to show they're doing the same inside the system!

Sorry I hope that makes sense!

PS That Cap trailer are they insinuating that Senator played by Robert Redford is Dell Rusk?:smallwink:

Really like these ideas! I thought the same thing about Redford/"Dell Rusk", I have read that he is playing Alexander Pierce though. I can see Fury going on the run because he doesn't like the way SHIELD is going and just going underground like in the comics pre-Civil War stuff. That could easily lead to the likes of Scarlett Widow and Coulsons team being conflicted and going "rogue" using Fury's hidden away resources. Am hopeful of seeing some kind of crossover with Cap 2 as there is obviously a heavy shield focus in the trailer.

[theNater]

3) How the Scorch was lost
She can hack them on her laptop from her van, and she still spends a lot of time using her laptop in her van, even when her van is on the bus. One doesn't have to know what a file is to leak it.

4) Skye's now Ex-boyfriend
How does tracking down Centipede get back at S.H.I.E.L.D.? Are you trying to suggest they con him into thinking he's hacking the one while he's actually hacking the other? That would be difficult and risky; not worth it unless he has some unique insight or ability, and there's no indication he does.

5) God AIM or whoever they are, are seriously dumb!
Scorch wanted to be famous. That is pretty much the fundamental drive behind everything he did. Centipede is a secret organization. There is a fundamental clash here that is going to result in Scorch being a liability sooner or later. Killing him off before he's had a chance to recognize the conflict isn't a terrible decision.

On the other hand, hacker boy, while not much of an asset, wouldn't be much of a liability either; his distrust of government means he's highly unlikely to talk if captured(there's no way Centipede could have known Skye would help interrogate him). An investigation into his death is the higher risk there, so they leave him alive.

[Hopeless]

She can hack them on her laptop from her van, and she still spends a lot of time using her laptop in her van, even when her van is on the bus. One doesn't have to know what a file is to leak it.

Which they can watch out for, I know they're downplaying the spy gadgets SHIELD is known for but that doesn't mean they don't have them.

Still not having seen her van since its usually Lola and the SHIELD van in the back shouldn't mean they haven't a second garage somewhere aboard so point taken.


How does tracking down Centipede get back at S.H.I.E.L.D.? Are you trying to suggest they con him into thinking he's hacking the one while he's actually hacking the other? That would be difficult and risky; not worth it unless he has some unique insight or ability, and there's no indication he does.

I really should have worded that properly but it was intended to trick him into thinking he was working for someone against SHIELD and use that to track down Centipede's operations whilst judging just how bad SHIELD's database really is which is p*** poor but my mistake.


Scorch wanted to be famous. That is pretty much the fundamental drive behind everything he did. Centipede is a secret organization. There is a fundamental clash here that is going to result in Scorch being a liability sooner or later. Killing him off before he's had a chance to recognize the conflict isn't a terrible decision.

On the other hand, hacker boy, while not much of an asset, wouldn't be much of a liability either; his distrust of government means he's highly unlikely to talk if captured(there's no way Centipede could have known Skye would help interrogate him). An investigation into his death is the higher risk there, so they leave him alive.

Had they eliminated him SHIELD wouldn't have found Scorch and their base, admittedly I'm now wondering if that was deliberate but it was still stupid to waste such a resource even if he wanted to be famous nothing says they couldn't hire him out to someone who wants him to be just that... memorable and could even throw SHIELD off their trail later on if handled properly.

As for the hacker... they should have either recruited him or had someone in place to eliminate him should SHIELD turn up, it might bring more scrutiny to their operation but so did kidnapping Scorch in the first place.

[Tyndmyr]

Nobody ever learns anything without being shot first? REALLY? Man, preschool must be brutal in your town. :smallsigh:

Well, that would be why, in real life, you don't leave learning for combat.



The bracelet was somewhat redeeming, though, IMO. Shield seriously had to do something to address her actions. No penalty would have been sorta painful. This penalty is still fairly light, but I suppose they're not going to off Skye quite yet.

Being a show Wedon is involved in, of course, someone's going to die. My bet would be one of the Fitzsimmons pair.

I agree that the platlets thing was kinda technobabble, but at least it wasn't horrifically painful. Just kinda meh.

In things I did like, there was a brief minecraft reference. Techies getting distracted on someone's minecraft playing habits seems entirely realistic.

[Fjolnir]

Honestly I was surprised that rather than draining him dry of platelets they didn't just harvest all his bone marrow as well, a bone marrow transplant would probably be a good long term solution rather than trying to power past just the initial phase of "dude will explode or not at point X"

[Eldan]

Thinking about it, why were they trying to kill him? They could just continually take small amounts of his blood for the rest of his life and tell him it's part of the procedure.

[Fjolnir]

they needed the platelets in abundance apparently and didn't want to do marrow procedures on the recipients of the centipedes?

[Ascension]

Long-term plans are also difficult to execute when a powerful government agency might crash your party at any moment looking for that guy they used to keep tabs on (before you recruited him via kidnapping). Better to go for the quick and dirty so you can discard the guy and run away like the would-be supervillains you are.

[LaZodiac]

Long-term plans are also difficult to execute when a powerful government agency might crash your party at any moment looking for that guy they used to keep tabs on (before you recruited him via kidnapping). Better to go for the quick and dirty so you can discard the guy and run away like the would-be supervillains you are.

Which is exactly what happened. Clearly Centipede is a little genre savey on this.

[Silver Swift]

I just assumed they took enough blood that they could start working on synthesising it (or better yet, replicating his ability).

[Hopeless]

Long-term plans are also difficult to execute when a powerful government agency might crash your party at any moment looking for that guy they used to keep tabs on (before you recruited him via kidnapping). Better to go for the quick and dirty so you can discard the guy and run away like the would-be supervillains you are.

SHIELD only caught on after catching the hacker they paid for the information on Scorch.

Had they either secured or killed said hacker, Coulson's team would have at the very least been delayed in tracking Scorch's location before they moved him again which is what they should have done whilst he was unconscious!

Telling him SHIELD broke into the compound and set off the internal security systems to neutralise him, but they were able to rescue him but were making sure SHIELD hadn't done something to jeopardize his life since he was that important... note he wants to be famous sure but there are different kinds of fame and recruiting a potential new superhuman would be well worth the risk.

Centipede's utter inability to understand this makes me wonder how the heck they survived this long since anyone with any sense would have nothing to do with these idiots!

So given the suits they used in that episode I am assuming this is AIM, well being very smart, amoral utterly lacking in empathy and apparently mix ruthlessness with idiotic actions well I assume Rena the woman in the flower dress left the doctor from the pilot to die simply to cut a potential connection to that incident unaware Coulson's team already knows.

Is it bad that I'm hoping Rena improves at least as a villainess since I'm getting the impression neither SHIELD nor AIM (if it is them) are particularly worth a tv series at this moment in time.

[Hopeless]

Which is exactly what happened. Clearly Centipede is a little genre savey on this.

No, if they were genre savvy they would have moved him to another facility and kept him unconscious for the entire trip and then explain SHIELD hit their facility and knocked him out but they were able to rescue him.

The fact SHIELD turned up could have been used to their advantage but no they effectively screwed up their one major advantage and had to flee with a single blood transfusion when they could have as many as necessary and keep him as an ally!

[Flickerdart]

Centipede didn't want to keep Scorch, because the only reason he was with them in the first place was that they lied to him. They didn't want to risk the jacked up super exploding their stuff once he realized they were stringing him along and were never going to make good on their promises. Remember that Centipede has some sort of agenda beyond "make supers more better" and that Scorch was, fundamentally, a pretty decent guy before the serum started messing with his head.

[BRC]

Centipede's Goal is to build Super Soldiers. They wanted Scorch's fireproof Blood so they could stop their soldiers from exploding.

I'm kind of surprised they didn't just put a bullet in his head as soon as they were done with him. Maybe they wanted to poke and prod him a bit more, see if they could extract his flamethrowerness as well, and they just rushed the fireproof blood thing because that was their main goal.

[Kitten Champion]

I don't care about the specifics, he got mad science'd. They took what they wanted from him and left him to rot.

I only really dislike technobabble when it's used as magic solutions to problems, creating them is far less of an issue for me. Also, this is comic book stuff, I'm pretty magnanimous.

[Hopeless]

I don't care about the specifics, he got mad science'd. They took what they wanted from him and left him to rot.

I only really dislike technobabble when it's used as magic solutions to problems, creating them is far less of an issue for me. Also, this is comic book stuff, I'm pretty magnanimous.

Now that's a point I agree with, they did indeed mad science him, just wished they were better prepared after all if that source of fire resistance blood ends up being blown up or used up how do they plan on finding more?

Can they synthesize his blood?

Hopefully their mad scientists can... but one explosion in the wrong place and the wrong time exactly like what happened in the pilot... well deja vu anyone?

Now I really wish Coulson got caught by that fire blast and turns out to be also fire resistant this is more because I'd rather he turn out to be the Original Human Torch but somewhat depowered.

But it would be interesting later on if AIM or whoever Centipede are end up looking for another person with similar abilities to Scorch and they go after Coulson or a member of his team thinking they're the one with similar talents to Scorch's blood?

[HandofShadows]

Well platelets are just a type of cell. We have gotten fairly good at growing different cells with RL technology. I imagin that in the Marvel Movie Universe they (Centiped and maybe SHIELD) have more advanced tech or can get it if they want fairly quickly.

[Aotrs Commander]

I liked it. I'm glad they delt with the whole Skye issue early, it would have been tiresome to have dragged it out all season.




Well, it looks better than Thor's upcoming picture.

I was thinking the exact opposite, myself.

Thor seems much more of the traditional super-heroing, while Cap seems much more like the modern attempts to be "gritty" which I greatly dislike. Or, to be fair, more thriller than action movie from that trailer. (The villain didn't ring any bells or look especially exciting.) Still, it looks like Black Widow and what I have a suspiscion may be Falcon in Cap, so there's that.

Time will tell.




Being a show Wedon is involved in, of course, someone's going to die. My bet would be one of the Fitzsimmons pair.

Yeah, that's my thinking too. It'd be just like him, wouldn't it?

[Flickerdart]

Centipede's Goal is to build Super Soldiers. They wanted Scorch's fireproof Blood so they could stop their soldiers from exploding.

Nobody's goal is just to build super soldiers. Super soldiers are a means to an end.

[Dienekes]

I was thinking the exact opposite, myself.

Thor seems much more of the traditional super-heroing, while Cap seems much more like the modern attempts to be "gritty" which I greatly dislike. Or, to be fair, more thriller than action movie from that trailer. (The villain didn't ring any bells or look especially exciting.) Still, it looks like Black Widow and what I have a suspiscion may be Falcon in Cap, so there's that.

Time will tell

Actually I'm excited for the cap movie. They seem to be going for the moral dissonance between Cap's dream and the real world. Which has been what Cap typically is at his best. When you have a paragon pure hero of goodness such as Cap and Superman, they're only actually interesting if they're morality is challenged. It also gives them a chance to reject modern grittiness. Also, yes that is Falcon.

And spoilers on the villain that every comic fan has known for awhile now.

It's Bucky. His dead best friend from the first movie. Which was surprisingly actually pretty interesting in the comics. And I generally support dead characters staying dead.

So yeah, I'm interested in the Cap movie more than Thor. As far as I can tell the emotional investment is being based around something bad happening to Jane. I just don't care about Jane, the romance was the weakest part of Thors first movie, and was largely why I felt it was the weakest of Marvels movie canon.

[Eldan]

I still don't understand why people liked Captain America. I thought it was an incredibly dull movie with pretty much no redeeming features and nothing interesting happening through the entire runtime. While Thor had spectacular visuals, interesting design, decent acting, good action and even some passable humour.

[Ravian]

I still don't understand why people liked Captain America. I thought it was an incredibly dull movie with pretty much no redeeming features and nothing interesting happening through the entire runtime. While Thor had spectacular visuals, interesting design, decent acting, good action and even some passable humour.

That's a little harsh, I will call it one of the weaker of the movies making up the lead into to the Avengers, but that's mainly because it stopped feeling like it was in World War II once they actually got to the front. Mainly it was the fact that Hydra looked like it was from the future with their laser guns and uniforms.

I am looking forward to both the sequels though, Thor II looks great, (When I first saw the trailer I thought I was watching something for the Hobbit or some other Lord of the Rings related thing). But Captain America II looks equally awesome and definitely has the cynicism that Cap is a great theme to play Cap against. (I find it interesting how his uniform continues to change with the theme of the movie, gritty and practical for World War II, flashy but modern for Avengers, subdued and spy-like for a conspiracy thriller (along with him just beating people up with his shield and street clothes)).

[DigoDragon]

I liked it. I'm glad they delt with the whole Skye issue early, it would have been tiresome to have dragged it out all season.

Ditto. The mystery around Coulson's revival is a much better one to toy with for the season anyway. Note how calm and cool he is about the whole thing too. "Tahiti, it's a magical place" is almost like a catchphrase for him. I would love to see Coulson get hints that there was some kind of dark side to the whole ordeal where it makes him start to loose a bit of that cool (We got two hints so far).

See what he's like with a little pressure on his ideals. Unravel a bit of that unwavering loyalty to SHIELD...



Yeah, that's my thinking too. It'd be just like him, wouldn't it?

Losing one of the Fitzsimmons pair probably wouldn't hurt the team much in my opinion. They're so similar I feel like they should have been some odd married couple or something vacationing on the bus. :smallsmile:



That's a little harsh, I will call it one of the weaker of the movies making up the lead into to the Avengers, but that's mainly because it stopped feeling like it was in World War II once they actually got to the front.

Perhaps weaker, but it was still a pleasant movie to me. I certainly liked it more than Iron Man 2 (my personal choice for weakest movie so far).

[BRC]

Losing one of the Fitzsimmons pair probably wouldn't hurt the team much in my opinion. They're so similar I feel like they should have been some odd married couple or something vacationing on the bus. :smallsmile:

Plus, breaking up one half of a pair allows for maximum trauma/drama/disruption.



Perhaps weaker, but it was still a pleasant movie to me. I certainly liked it more than Iron Man 2 (my personal choice for weakest movie so far).
I enjoyed it. I saw it as proof that in our modern age where we demand our protagonists be grizzled and brimming with moral complexity, we can still have somebody as shamlessly heroic as Steve Rodgers as an interesting character.
Not super-interesting, but not boring so.

[Doc Kraken]

Plus, breaking up one half of a pair allows for maximum trauma/drama/disruption.


Yup. That'll be the one Whedon's gunning for.

[BRC]

Yup. That'll be the one Whedon's gunning for.

for a prime example, look at 21 and 24 in venture brothers.

[Dienekes]

I still don't understand why people liked Captain America. I thought it was an incredibly dull movie with pretty much no redeeming features and nothing interesting happening through the entire runtime. While Thor had spectacular visuals, interesting design, decent acting, good action and even some passable humour.

Huh, honestly just switch the words Thor and Captain America in this post and you basically have my opinion. I like Cap, he was a decent enough guy. The action was pretty good, the designs in the beginning were history porn, and at the end were fun silly scifi. There was quite a bit I found funny (mostly Erskine and Col. Philips, and the song montage), and I generally rooted for the Cap to win and prove himself.

Thor? Started good, though Asgard looked really fake to me. But it had great elements in there, like Loki vs Thor. You have two sons fighting for their fathers affection, one strong and noble the other intelligent and unfavored. The unfavored manipulates events to gain power and bring about the downfall of his brother. That's basically the B plot to King Lear. It's awesome, I wish they focused the entire movie on that. Instead Thor loses his power and there is an hour long romantic comedy between Thor and Padme Amidala. I did not laugh once during this section (ok a small chuckle at the "Another!" line) and kept hoping Padme would get her drivers license revoked.


for a prime example, look at 21 and 24 in venture brothers.

Fitzsimmons are nowhere near the level of 21 and 24. Why did he buckle up? Why?

[BRC]

Fitzsimmons are nowhere near the level of 21 and 24.

They're not, but that's a prime example of the effect I'm talking about.
If you kill a character, your cast is now short a character.

If you kill a character that is closely associated with a second character, your cast is not only short one character, the rest of the pair can become a drastically different character through trauma and loss. You not only killed a character, you killed the pair, and introducd a new version of a second character.
Maximum sadness and disruption!

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Yup. That'll be the one Whedon's gunning for.
We shall see. Too early to call, I think.

Topher and Bennet were built up for a long time, up to the hilaricute kissing and BAM HEADSHOT HEARTBREAK. But their relationship was certainly at "awkward and imminent tension".

Mal and Inara, reportedly, were to see Inara's death just when it was about to come together.

Wash and Zoe were interesting, in that it wasn't a couple-in-the-making, but an already-established couple.

Billy and Penny were "so obviously cute I should've seen that coming", though the relationship got derailed by El Hammer.

My point being, he sinks ships that have substance. FitzSimmons does not. Not yet. Personally, I'd keep my eye open for Ward dying, after Skye and he open up to one another.

[BRC]

We shall see. Too early to call, I think.

Topher and Bennet were built up for a long time, up to the hilaricute kissing and BAM HEADSHOT HEARTBREAK. But their relationship was certainly at "awkward and imminent tension".

Mal and Inara, reportedly, were to see Inara's death just when it was about to come together.

Wash and Zoe were interesting, in that it wasn't a couple-in-the-making, but an already-established couple.

Billy and Penny were "so obviously cute I should've seen that coming", though the relationship got derailed by El Hammer.

My point being, he sinks ships that have substance. FitzSimmons does not. Not yet. Personally, I'd keep my eye open for Ward dying, after Skye and he open up to one another.

Who said anything about shipping. Fitzsimmons are a pair, so closely tied that they are jokingly referred to as a single character. The goal is not to sink ships, its to traumatize the characters. Killing part of a platonic pair works just as well for that.

That said my money is on Fitzs dying. He's more interesting, and then they can do a thing where people accidentally say his name when talking to Simmons.

that said, Dead Ward could work, forcing Skye into field agent work. Or Dead Melinda May, removing the team's badass backup.

[Joran]

I enjoyed it. I saw it as proof that in our modern age where we demand our protagonists be grizzled and brimming with moral complexity, we can still have somebody as shamlessly heroic as Steve Rodgers as an interesting character.
Not super-interesting, but not boring so.

Of course, the age that Steve Rodgers is from wasn't without it's own moral complexities.

I got a kick out of the historical irony of this conversation:

Fury: "We're going to neutralize a whole lot of threats before they happen"
Captain America: "I thought the punishment usually happens after the crime."
-Says the man from the era when they interned the Japanese-Americans.

[Dienekes]

Of course, the age that Steve Rodgers is from wasn't without it's own moral complexities.

I got a kick out of the historical irony of this conversation:

Fury: "We're going to neutralize a whole lot of threats before they happen"
Captain America: "I thought the punishment usually happens after the crime."
-Says the man from the era when they interned the Japanese-Americans.

Agreed, though I think in the comics Steve was very much against that action. Still not as bad as the WWII soldier saying they they shouldn't create missiles, even though his friends were doing the same thing with his knowledge in his own movie.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Who said anything about shipping. Fitzsimmons are a pair, so closely tied that they are jokingly referred to as a single character. The goal is not to sink ships, its to traumatize the characters. Killing part of a platonic pair works just as well for that.
Whilst this is true, Whedon does zero in on romantic relationships. You do not get to be romantically involved and happy in the Whedonverse. It just doesn't happen. (If Firefly had gone on much longer, I cry to think of what would happen to Kaylee and Simon. You just know it would hurt.) Hitting platonic pairs isn't really a thing of his. He's all about killing a lover.

(Concrete? No. But given his history, highly likely.)

That said my money is on Fitzs dying. He's more interesting, and then they can do a thing where people accidentally say his name when talking to Simmons.

that said, Dead Ward could work, forcing Skye into field agent work. Or Dead Melinda May, removing the team's badass backup.
I don't think May (Mei? I never checked the spelling, but "Mei" seems more likely?) dying would be as good. I can't pin it down--but I think it's because she's still supporting cast. Ward, being a sort of center figure who isn't the audience surrogate (and is the romantic target of the surrogate) would be a lot more devastating in a few ways. And yeah--it would force Skye to grow up some and move onto the team roster in a big way.

Side note: maybe I didn't notice people mentioning this, but I just found this amusing post (http://www.risingtidenorthamerica.org/2013/09/no-actually-we-are-the-rising-tide/). Apparently, an activist group got miffed at the show because it was also called "The Rising Tide". It even accused them of ripping off their logo, which is--wait for it--a wave.

Totally not a coincidental thing. Because waves and rising tides have nothing to do with one another. And because a rising tide totally isn't an easy-to-grasp mental image that sounds really cool.

Heh.

[Karoht]

Agreed, though I think in the comics Steve was very much against that action. Still not as bad as the WWII soldier saying they they shouldn't create missiles, even though his friends were doing the same thing with his knowledge in his own movie.
I don't recall seeing any missiles in the Captain America film, and he was very much against Shield working on the 'Phase 2' stuff in Avengers (not that Capt has a say on that, lets all remember), so I'm not sure I follow which missiles you are refering to.

[BRC]

I got the impression that Cap was less angry that they were building weapons, and more angry that Fury felt he had to lie to them about it. He's a soldier, so he should understand the desire to arm oneself, however he's such a gosh darn swell guy that he probably believes that nobody lies unless they have somthing they should be hiding.

He could also just hate the idea of doing anything that HYDRA/the nazis did, in which case nobody tell him about the space program/post WWII rocket science.

[Dienekes]

I don't recall seeing any missiles in the Captain America film, and he was very much against Shield working on the 'Phase 2' stuff in Avengers (not that Capt has a say on that, lets all remember), so I'm not sure I follow which missiles you are refering to.

In the Cap movie Stark was learning all he could to reverse engineer Hydra tech for allied use. Cap knew and was ok with it. Avengers comes around and suddenly using the weapons of the enemy is terrible and should never be done. Probably should have been clearer but this amused me when I saw the Avengers. The soldier is complaining about getting more effective equipment. Really? When one of these missiles would have solved the plot of his movie? And the secrecy thing doesn't work either. He's a military man. He should know secrecy especially in weapons development serves a good purpose.

[BRC]

In the Cap movie Stark was learning all he could to reverse engineer Hydra tech for allied use. Cap knew and was ok with it. Avengers comes around and suddenly using the weapons of the enemy is terrible and should never be done. Probably should have been clearer but this amused me when I saw the Avengers. The soldier is complaining about getting more effective equipment. Really? When one of these missiles would have solved the plot of his movie? And the secrecy thing doesn't work either. He's a military man. He should know secrecy especially in weapons development serves a good purpose.

you keep things secret from people you don't trust. By lying to the Avengers about the tesseract missles Fury was saying he didn't trust them.
For a spy ths sort of compartmentalization makes perfect sense, because spies must be aware that anybody could be compromised. Steve is a soldier, he may very well not think that way.

Also, Fury got Steve on board by saying the Tessaract was going to serve as an energy source. That's different than simply not telling him somthing, that is using a lie to convince him to help.

If Fury had said "We were using this cube to do classified stuff, and we need it back", assuming Steve said yes, he would probably have reacted differently when he learned what it was for.

[McStabbington]

I don't think May (Mei? I never checked the spelling, but "Mei" seems more likely?) dying would be as good. I can't pin it down--but I think it's because she's still supporting cast. Ward, being a sort of center figure who isn't the audience surrogate (and is the romantic target of the surrogate) would be a lot more devastating in a few ways. And yeah--it would force Skye to grow up some and move onto the team roster in a big way.


Well, the real problem is that right now, the only thing it would do is hamper the team, not the people. May right now is a very well-casted hammer. All we know is that she's either on par with someone like Romanov or ever-so-slightly below her in talent, and that on this show, which deals with the Zeppos who handle the little stuff that falls beneath the scrutiny of the Avengers, that effectively makes her a juggernaut. If you lose her, well, then you just call in Iron Man or Captain America and let him handle it. SHIELD has lost a fine agent, but that's all.

If, however, they wait a while and build the relationships, then you don't just lose the hammer. You lose the person, and you create a hole in the team that they then have to fill or not fill. And to their credit, they cast a reputable actress who can do both the action stuff they want and can add nuance to even straightforward dialogue. Losing May right now would be on par with Tasha Yar's exit from TNG in terms of creating a potentially interesting character, doing little with her, and then summarily executing her territory.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

@McStabbington: Ah, thanks. That makes a lot of sense. I had vague gut feelings but couldn't pin down why I thought so.

[LaZodiac]

In the Cap movie Stark was learning all he could to reverse engineer Hydra tech for allied use. Cap knew and was ok with it. Avengers comes around and suddenly using the weapons of the enemy is terrible and should never be done. Probably should have been clearer but this amused me when I saw the Avengers. The soldier is complaining about getting more effective equipment. Really? When one of these missiles would have solved the plot of his movie? And the secrecy thing doesn't work either. He's a military man. He should know secrecy especially in weapons development serves a good purpose.

When Stark was doing it, they were trying to defeat the Nazi's and Cap had a great future to look to when it was all said and done.

When Fury does it, it's after Cap wakes up some 70 years after those same weapons caused his entire life to be ruined. Perfect soldier boy he may be, Cap knows the kind of stuff those weapons can do when used in the wrong hands. So he's cautious. That's my take anyway.

As for the discussion on hand, I don't think anyone is dying yet, though either of Fitz and Simmons are the most likely to kick it since their, far as I can tell, reasonably well liked side characters which would cause a lot of tension and drama if one of them died.

[Karoht]

In the Cap movie Stark was learning all he could to reverse engineer Hydra tech for allied use. Cap knew and was ok with it. Avengers comes around and suddenly using the weapons of the enemy is terrible and should never be done. Probably should have been clearer but this amused me when I saw the Avengers. The soldier is complaining about getting more effective equipment. Really? When one of these missiles would have solved the plot of his movie? And the secrecy thing doesn't work either. He's a military man. He should know secrecy especially in weapons development serves a good purpose.
Right, but they were unaware of the hydra missiles until the end of the film, and more or less dealt with them. Ergo Cap couldn't have supported the reverse engineering of such tech, within that context. Still, point made. He was fine with Howard Stark trying (not succeeding though) to reverse engineer the guns and whatnot. Though it should be noted that Howard stated that the guns and other recovered tech was beyond him. I took that to mean he really couldn't reverse-engineer it, but make of that what you will.

[lt_murgen]

Right, but they were unaware of the hydra missiles until the end of the film, and more or less dealt with them. Ergo Cap couldn't have supported the reverse engineering of such tech, within that context. Still, point made. He was fine with Howard Stark trying (not succeeding though) to reverse engineer the guns and whatnot. Though it should be noted that Howard stated that the guns and other recovered tech was beyond him. I took that to mean he really couldn't reverse-engineer it, but make of that what you will.

But also remember that SHIELD is not the U.S. military. Howard Stark was working with the military during the war. In that context, it makes perfect sense.

But SHIELD does not work for the military. They are answerable to teh World Security Council. I could see a United States soldier having issues with that, too.

[BRC]

But also remember that SHIELD is not the U.S. military. Howard Stark was working with the military during the war. In that context, it makes perfect sense.

But SHIELD does not work for the military. They are answerable to teh World Security Council. I could see a United States soldier having issues with that, too.

SHIELD is essentially a millitary, they just answer to a council of nations rather than any single nation. For all that he runs around in star spangled spandex I doubt Steve would think SHIELD is illegitimate just because it answers to an international council rather than AMERICA!

Heck, while he was part of the US army, he would have been operating under the Allied Command structure in WWII.

He loves his country, but I don't think he would be the type to freak out over the idea of Non-Americans having weapons.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

SHIELD is a military organization which has the authority (apparently) to nuke NYC and is answerable to no-one. It's also a top-secret organization.

Putting superweapons in their hands would certainly give me reason to be alarmed, if I were Cap.

[Brother Oni]

Hacker dude is going to get his in a few weeks because being a transient in HONG KONG isn't a good recipe for living very long.

Am I missing something? If all else fails, he can get in contact with the US Consulate in HK.


And I actually do appreciate them for going the lengths to recording in Cantonese for a scene in Hong Kong, and also getting the Cantonese spoken part actually match up reasonably well with the intended English translation, unlike a certain Steve Martin movie involving a diamond... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16laJlacyWE.

It's a pity that given the effort they put into getting most of the dialogue right, they didn't manage to get the outdoor scenes looking like Hong Kong and not a Chinatown in America somewhere.

Chan's flat is also blatantly not in a place which can hit 30+C and 100%RH up until autumn, not to mention a flat of that approximate size could be upwards of 8000 HKD a month, something well beyond a street performer's expected wage.

Also in my experience, performers like that are very uncommon in Hong Kong and I've never seen a street magician while out there.

[McStabbington]

SHIELD is essentially a millitary, they just answer to a council of nations rather than any single nation. For all that he runs around in star spangled spandex I doubt Steve would think SHIELD is illegitimate just because it answers to an international council rather than AMERICA!

Heck, while he was part of the US army, he would have been operating under the Allied Command structure in WWII.

He loves his country, but I don't think he would be the type to freak out over the idea of Non-Americans having weapons.

It's actually not entirely clear what SHIELD is, how it works, or what its jurisdiction is at all. We've seen government agents work with it before on the show, but to this point it hasn't exactly been clear what SHIELD has been tasked to do, and more importantly, by whom. To this point, it's a hazy "they" that are quite literally cloaked in shadows.

One of the things I'm hoping that they do is some actual world-building about the institution. To this point, they've stuck to the Jams-Bond-International-Man-of-Mystery-type mandate, and it's worked because, hey, it's only six episodes, but it probably won't hold up if they're planning to do any actual intrigue at the agency in the future.

[Rakaydos]

I'd expect more intrigue around SHIELD as we get closer to Winter Soldier.

[Talanic]

Remember that Shield botched their chance to make a good first impression on Captain America. In fact, Shield probably shouldn't have had custody of him in the first place - Cap's still an officer of the US Army, possibly even still considered to be on active duty once the whole 'MIA Presumed Dead' thing gets worked out.

Once Shield had determined that he was alive, the most honest and polite thing to do would have been to hand him over to the Army for recovery. Instead they tried to control him by pretending that nothing was wrong. Yes, they were going to break it to him over time, but I honestly don't know of anyone that prefers bad news that way.

[LaZodiac]

Am I missing something? If all else fails, he can get in contact with the US Consulate in HK.

Chan's flat is also blatantly not in a place which can hit 30+C and 100%RH up until autumn, not to mention a flat of that approximate size could be upwards of 8000 HKD a month, something well beyond a street performer's expected wage.

Also in my experience, performers like that are very uncommon in Hong Kong and I've never seen a street magician while out there.

Hong Kong's a dangerous place for a guy who makes an ass of himself so much like that guy.

I can't say anything about the rent, but do you think a guy who's immune to fire cares about then heat :smallamused:?

Uncommon doesn't mean impossible.

[Sith_Happens]

Am I missing something? If all else fails, he can get in contact with the US Consulate in HK.

Depending on how vindictive Coulson is feeling, I could see him finding them mysteriously non-helpful.

[The New Bruceski]

Am I allowed to be annoyed at how the person burned? People are chunky, with different parts that burn at different rates with a lot of grease and water and bubbling. She burned like a matchstick, ash which crumbled uniformly. With the history of comics somebody can probably cite a scientist superhero named Paper Woman who we can pretend she was, but seriously...

[Kitten Champion]

Am I allowed to be annoyed at how the person burned? People are chunky, with different parts that burn at different rates with a lot of grease and water and bubbling. She burned like a matchstick, ash which crumbled uniformly. With the history of comics somebody can probably cite a scientist superhero named Paper Woman who we can pretend she was, but seriously...

You're expecting realistic human immolation on a prime time family show? I guess they do it on Bones and CSI, but I really don't want to see that.

[LaZodiac]

Am I allowed to be annoyed at how the person burned? People are chunky, with different parts that burn at different rates with a lot of grease and water and bubbling. She burned like a matchstick, ash which crumbled uniformly. With the history of comics somebody can probably cite a scientist superhero named Paper Woman who we can pretend she was, but seriously...

It's meant to show how powerful his flames had become. He was so powerful that all those nuances and such to the burning of a regular human body, they were nothing compared to his burning might!

Also it's already grim and horrifying to watch a person burn alive, lets not make it super indepth and realistic please.

[Hawriel]

Am I allowed to be annoyed at how the person burned? People are chunky, with different parts that burn at different rates with a lot of grease and water and bubbling. She burned like a matchstick, ash which crumbled uniformly. With the history of comics somebody can probably cite a scientist superhero named Paper Woman who we can pretend she was, but seriously...

I was actually quite shocked they showed the person being burned alive like that at all. I was not offended mind you. They did that on a network show in prime time. A show that is targeted to kids who liked the Avengers, and Iron man movies.

[The New Bruceski]

I was actually quite shocked they showed the person being burned alive like that at all. I was not offended mind you. They did that on a network show in prime time. A show that is targeted to kids who liked the Avengers, and Iron man movies.

Oh it shocked me as well, all of that just came to a halt when she burned more cleanly than a log in a fireplace. It made the thing have less punch to me than if she had burned off-screen (as long as they still included that shot of her before she fell apart, that was suitably freaky).

[Lvl45DM!]

Right, but they were unaware of the hydra missiles until the end of the film, and more or less dealt with them. Ergo Cap couldn't have supported the reverse engineering of such tech, within that context. Still, point made. He was fine with Howard Stark trying (not succeeding though) to reverse engineer the guns and whatnot. Though it should be noted that Howard stated that the guns and other recovered tech was beyond him. I took that to mean he really couldn't reverse-engineer it, but make of that what you will.

I feel like since he found out more about the tesseract and realized how frakking dangerous it was to play with he might've objected. Especially since he was alive before they detonated nukes and he might find the idea of WMDs just friggin horrifying

[DigoDragon]

It's actually not entirely clear what SHIELD is, how it works, or what its jurisdiction is at all.

Given that it operates internationally, I think of SHIELD as having a similar setup to Interpol.



Depending on how vindictive Coulson is feeling, I could see him finding them mysteriously non-helpful.

Ouch. :smallsmile:

[Brother Oni]

Hong Kong's a dangerous place for a guy who makes an ass of himself so much like that guy.

Just wait until he gets picked up by the police for not having identification on him.



I can't say anything about the rent, but do you think a guy who's immune to fire cares about then heat :smallamused:?

I know it gets fairly hot and humid in the summer in Canada, but that's still significantly different from the sub-tropical climate that Hong Kong gets, with all the attendant bugs and diseases you get (carpets are uncommon outside of hotels for this reason).

In any case, the heat generally isn't the issue, it's the humidity.


Depending on how vindictive Coulson is feeling, I could see him finding them mysteriously non-helpful.

I don't think Coulson is nasty enough to add insult to injury and stick wossname on a 'Do Not Fly' list. :smalltongue:

[grolim]

Yeah, he will have a hard enough time explaining how he got to Hong Kong without a passport etc as it is. I do not think the US consulate would look well on the claim I was kidnapped by secret govt agents and flown here then abandoned. His best bet is to find a computer, connect with one of his hacker friends and get some local crash space and have someone mail his passport to him or otherwise get him papers and a ticket and just owe them. Which will be fun with his bracelet.

[Rakaydos]

I feel like since he found out more about the tesseract and realized how frakking dangerous it was to play with he might've objected. Especially since he was alive before they detonated nukes and he might find the idea of WMDs just friggin horrifying

If I remember my history right, noone was horrified at what nuke could do when it was still being designed and planned. "One bomb that can do the work of an entire bomber raid? Great! How many can we fit in that same bomber raid?"

Only after Nagasaki did is start to sink in how powerful they were.

[Flickerdart]

Yeah, he will have a hard enough time explaining how he got to Hong Kong without a passport etc as it is. I do not think the US consulate would look well on the claim I was kidnapped by secret govt agents and flown here then abandoned. His best bet is to find a computer, connect with one of his hacker friends and get some local crash space and have someone mail his passport to him or otherwise get him papers and a ticket and just owe them. Which will be fun with his bracelet.

What exactly does the bracelet do? Coulson said he'd have trouble using electronics...is it some kind of magnet or EMP thing?

[LaZodiac]

What exactly does the bracelet do? Coulson said he'd have trouble using electronics...is it some kind of magnet or EMP thing?

They said it does "whatever they want" so I'm guessing it's some kind of tech-tech that, in this situation, makes him unable to use any technology that can access the internet.

[BRC]

They said it does "whatever they want" so I'm guessing it's some kind of tech-tech that, in this situation, makes him unable to use any technology that can access the internet.

Or they can make a wide variety of bracelets for different conditions and put them all in identical cases, and Coulson was mind-gaming the guy. It may just be a GPS, or some technobabble that lets it feed SHIELD information on anything he tries to do online.

But he's been Panopticonned. It COULD do anything, so he must assume it can do everything.

[Brother Oni]

Yeah, he will have a hard enough time explaining how he got to Hong Kong without a passport etc as it is. I do not think the US consulate would look well on the claim I was kidnapped by secret govt agents and flown here then abandoned. His best bet is to find a computer, connect with one of his hacker friends and get some local crash space and have someone mail his passport to him or otherwise get him papers and a ticket and just owe them. Which will be fun with his bracelet.

"I was robbed and everything was taken, my passport, my tickets, hotel information, luggage, everything!".

Even if they don't believe him or fly him back to the US, consulates are usually fairly helpful about getting messages back home (unless he behaves like a total ********).

If all else fails, he could hand himself into the nearest police station (or get arrested) and get himself deported by Immigration after being fined or imprisoned for a bit. At this point, Coulson could really put the boot in and leave incriminating evidence that he was there on an espionage mission, at which point life is going to become very unpleasant for him (although it would mean the giving the PRC security agencies the bracelet since they're unlikely to hesitate in amputation to recover it).

[huttj509]

They said it does "whatever they want" so I'm guessing it's some kind of tech-tech that, in this situation, makes him unable to use any technology that can access the internet.

My guess:

Tracking system (including audio)
Signal jammer (wi-fi)
EMP (last ditch for hardline)
Electroshock

All of which are selectively activatable.

[Talyn]

I thought it was pretty clear in the Avengers that SHIELD is basically the military and espionage branch of the United Nations - the World Security Council has members from the U.S., Britain, Russia, and China, which is 4/5 of the U.N Security Council (only France is missing, and the French councilmember could conceivably been sick that day or just off-screen). Sort of a cross between INTERPOL, the Blue-helmeted Peacekeepers, and NATO.

We also know from Iron Man 2 that Howard Stark helped found SHIELD in the 50s after the Strategic Scientific Reserve was disbanded - presumably to deal with trans-national threats. What's interesting is that by that time the Cold War was in full swing, so team Democracy (the U.S., the UK, and possibly France) and team Communism (Russia and China) would have little reason to work together, let alone provide money and soldiers/spies to work for an international organization. So, this leads logically to one of two conclusions:

1) the original SHIELD did not include Russia or China. It was a Western Powers club, the intelligence/espionage equivalent to NATO. Russia and China were invited in either after 9/11 (international terrorism is SHIELD's thing, and everyone wants to work together suddenly) or after the events of Iron Man 1 (big paradigm shift in global power means the superpowers suddenly want to work together to keep an eye on mega-powerful individuals like Iron Man and the Hulk).

2) the original SHIELD did include members from Russia and China, and SHIELD has always existed outside the realpolitik of the Cold War, in a vaguely adversarial relationship with the nation-states that provide it's money and personnel. (Sort of like X-COM, if you've played the video game series.) SHIELD recruited idealists and internationalists from both sides of the Cold War, put them together and created a genuine non-state military power, directed by the WSC and not subject to national interests.

Personally, I think the first option is more likely, but it could go either way - we just don't know much about how SHIELD is organized or funded.

In either case, though, the idea that a trans-national military organization (that is, not one that is run from the Department of Defense and therefore subject to American oversight) can operate on American soil, and is willing and able to deploy a nuclear weapon on an American city, is FREAKING TERRIFYING.

Agents of SHIELD also has shown that Coulson, at least, believes that SHIELD has unlimited jurisdiction over it's sphere of influence, which is unbelievably broad - anything extranormal or extraterrestrial goes to SHIELD, and their people are allowed to seize it by force over the objection of the nation-state whose territory they are in. They can do everything that the conspiracy-theory spouting right-wing militia types think the U.N. does in the real world.

[Hawriel]

SHIELD is essentially a millitary, they just answer to a council of nations rather than any single nation. For all that he runs around in star spangled spandex I doubt Steve would think SHIELD is illegitimate just because it answers to an international council rather than AMERICA!

Heck, while he was part of the US army, he would have been operating under the Allied Command structure in WWII.

He loves his country, but I don't think he would be the type to freak out over the idea of Non-Americans having weapons.

No, Steve Rogers would denounce SHIELD for having no over sight or restrictions that come close to being along the lines of the United States constitution. Unilateral power to do what ever the hell they want, no rights for any one they capture, no need for proof, or need of a warrant. It is every thing he stands against.

Essientially SHIELD is a secret military that is turning the world into a military police state. If you think the U.S.'s Patriot Act, and excuse of "national security" to do what ever is bad, SHIELD does not even bother with saying that.

Steve Rogers May have been under British command during the war. However that has nothing to do with what SHIELD is. In WWII the United States, Britain, France, Canada, and Poland, had a very organized, strict, and integrated chain of command. For example, The European theater was commanded by Eisenhower (U.S.). The great majority of his staff were British. Ike had three field armies in France, they were commanded by two Americans, Bradley and Patton, and an Englishman Montgomery. The French, Canadian, Polish were in Montgomery's field army.

Eisenhower's commanding officer was George Marshall, Chief of Staff of the Army. Every one answered to him, he answered to Roosevelt.

Steve Rogers would have no problem taking orders from an officer who was not American. However SHIELD does not fallow the ideals of the U.S. Constitution, nor does it fallow the rules, regulations, and oversight. A military that is controlled by a democratically elected civilian government.

The only reason SHIELD is the good guys is because the writers told us they were. Like Batman, and Jedi, they do what ever they want, with no consequence.

[Silver Swift]

The only reason SHIELD is the good guys is because the writers told us they were. Like Batman, and Jedi, they do what ever they want, with no consequence.

Well, SHIELD, like batman and his ilk, are the good guys in the same way that absolute monarchs can be good guys. As long as you have good people filling the positions of absolute power things can run smoothly. The problems start occuring once you have bad people filling those positions (but by that point it is to late to do anything about it).

Currently SHIELD seems to be on the side of good overall, they are just betting an awful lot on the hope that they can prevent high level positions from falling into the hands of some power hungry maniac or knight templar figure.

[Kitten Champion]

Based on my time with Marvel comics and the show, SHIELD's structure and legal standing is left intentionally vague. I don't think the writers want to deal with IRL politics as much as possible. They do explain, to a degree, that the eccentricities of the Marvel universe justifies quite a lot in their funding and scope.

[McStabbington]

Based on my time with Marvel comics and the show, SHIELD's structure and legal standing is left intentionally vague. I don't think the writers want to deal with IRL politics as much as possible. They do explain, to a degree, that the eccentricities of the Marvel universe justifies quite a lot in their funding and scope.

There are certainly storytelling advantages to keeping the details vague, if for no other reason than very few people would be particularly keen on a subplot that revolved around whether SHIELD breaks the sacrosanct rule of Article VIII, Section 17, Paragraph 2 of their charter. It's really half of the problem with the Prime Directive: the application was always a post-hoc rationalization to add . . . well, I want to say drama, but really it was drama substitute.

But the thing is, they've already injected politics into the show. They had an American guy with authority vested in him by SHIELD go into a South American country, capture a HYDRA weapon, and imprison field agents for said South American country who were trying to retrieve the device themselves. It's not a big stretch to then ask: what exactly gives SHIELD the right to do that? What is more, if you're going to properly investigate whether or not SHIELD is doing the right thing, you have to show what it's doing. And part of showing what they are doing is to show what the proper scope of their authority is.

It's all part of successful world-building. A good world-builder makes enough rules to show what the limits of the universe are without necessarily hemming them in with lots of irrelevant details. We don't need to have an episode of Ward reading the field manual to Skye, but we do need a few clear-cut rules within the universe to say "This is what SHIELD is and is not allowed to do," if for no other reason than because it always gives you the dramatic option of showing other parts of SHIELD crossing those lines, and the heroes reacting to it. Those few rules are opportunities, not hindrances, to do good storytelling.