Agents of SHIELD

[Palanan]

You just saw Thor? Wow.

But yes, the extra Thor references were a nice reminder that major events have ripple effects.



(And "fracking awesome" describes it pretty well. :smalltongue:)

[Aotrs Commander]

You just saw Thor? Wow.

But yes, the extra Thor references were a nice reminder that major events have ripple effects.

(And "fracking awesome" describes it pretty well. :smalltongue:)

Well, I usually take my Mum (my Dad's not much of a movie person - we drag him to the odd one like Star Trek, so me and Mum go during the day when it's quiet - sometimes we get a practially private showing!), and my parents were away for two weeks when it first came out and I was house-sitting for my sister the first half of the week, so this was the first chance we got.

[Friv]

My Analysis: Melinda May says this is what Coulson said to her after the mission in Bahrain, what parts were said to her are up in the air. Coulson mentions that a civilian girl was among the agents that May went in to save; this is a pretty important detail, considering it's mentioned. I'm guessing she died and May was holding the body. Hence the words "Let the girl go."

P.S. I'd be thoroughly surprised if May and Skye are related.


I'm about 90% sure that Skye's mother was either the civilian woman mentioned, or one of the followers of this mystery guy, and that May is probably now aware of this fact. Coulson didn't know exactly what happened inside, so it's totally plausible that he didn't know there was a child.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

So, the Problem of the Week was essentially...
Nightcrawler gone off the rails?

:smallbiggrin:

It's rather cool that
They used Agents of SHIELD for the first appearance of whatever they're calling the dimension where Mephisto and Company pal around. I forget, is a Dr. Strange movie coming any time soon?

Also, I'm amused that they're still managing to lay background for what would be Nightcrawler's story if they only had the rights.

[Orrmundur]

It's rather cool that
They used Agents of SHIELD for the first appearance of whatever they're calling the dimension where Mephisto and Company pal around. I forget, is a Dr. Strange movie coming any time soon?
I assumed that was Muspelheim, not hell, since it's already been introduced in the movies, sort of.

[Fjolnir]

Considering Hell is a real place in the Marvel Universe and they probably want to start introducing things that tie in to the Marvel Magic Universe, and not just the science world, this is a good start point...

[Xondoure]

Considering Hell is a real place in the Marvel Universe and they probably want to start introducing things that tie in to the Marvel Magic Universe, and not just the science world, this is a good start point...

Isn't Ghostrider technically a part of the MCU?

[Fjolnir]

No, but as of 2013 Marvel owns the cinematic rights to Ghost Rider... The previous films were both done by Sony and are not part of the MCU

[Xondoure]

No, but as of 2013 Marvel owns the cinematic rights to Ghost Rider... The previous films were both done by Sony and are not part of the MCU

Good to know. Thanks.

[The New Bruceski]

- On the post credit scene: Huh, apparently someone on the writing team watches Phineas and Ferb. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evcsj1gx1CE)


Or they just know what the hell an aglet is because they write for a living and pick up interesting words like a scientist does factoids. I know what an aglet is and I've never heard of that show.

Also my mom's a Scrabble savant. Play a few games against her and your vocabulary will double.

[Tyndmyr]

I also noticed the dollhouse reference and...in case nobody else has noticed this yet, the 3d scanner referenced in episode 8 is a real thing. See cubify.com.

Normally, product placement is kind of bleh in tv shows, but this kind of fits, actually.

[paddyfool]

Or they just know what the hell an aglet is because they write for a living and pick up interesting words like a scientist does factoids. I know what an aglet is and I've never heard of that show.

Also my mom's a Scrabble savant. Play a few games against her and your vocabulary will double.

I only knew what it was because of a justice league cartoon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLlk0ROvcKA).

[Hiro Protagonest]

There's a post-credits scene? ...Or is that the one with Coulson's dream? I can't watch YouTube right now.


You just saw Thor? Wow.

But yes, the extra Thor references were a nice reminder that major events have ripple effects.



(And "fracking awesome" describes it pretty well. :smalltongue:)

This show has convinced me to give the rest of this canon a shot (well, okay, only Cap, Iron Man, Thor, and The Avengers, the last of which I'm halfway through anyway due to a plane ride on United Airlines. I don't particularly care for Hulk or the two unrelated characters, Spidey or Wolverine).

[BRC]

There's a post-credits scene? ...Or is that the one with Coulson's dream? I can't watch YouTube right now.



This show has convinced me to give the rest of this canon a shot (well, okay, only Cap, Iron Man, Thor, and The Avengers, the last of which I'm halfway through anyway due to a plane ride on United Airlines. I don't particularly care for Hulk or the two unrelated characters, Spidey or Wolverine).

Spidey and Wolverine are not in the MCU. The Hulk movie technically is, but was not well-recieved so is generally ignored.

The "Primary" Phase 1 MCU is
Iron Man
Captain America
Thor
Iron Man 2 (Introduction of Black Widow)
The Avengers
with Thor 2, Iron man 3, and Captain America 2 as part of Phase 2.

My guess is that AoS and the old Hulk movie will be Secondary parts of the MCU, in that they don't make the movies with the expectation that you've seen them.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Old Hulk movie is not part of the MCU in any way, as I recall. The Hulk remake (with Ed Norton) is very explicitly tied to it, though.

[BRC]

Old Hulk movie is not part of the MCU in any way, as I recall. The Hulk remake (with Ed Norton) is very explicitly tied to it, though.

That's what I meant.

Using The Avengers as the baseline for Primary vs Secondary canon, with Primary Canon defined as "Stuff The Avengers assumes you saw"

Captain America introduces Steve and the Tesseract.
Iron Man introduces Coulson, Fury, Tony, and the Arc Reactor which is semi-important.
Iron Man 2 Introduces Black Widow, who gets sufficient introduction in The Avengers (She's a badass spy lady), so I guess you can lead that one out without causing any trouble.

You only really need to know what "The Hulk", "Bruce Banner" and "Gamma Radiation" have to do with each other in order to appreciate the Avengers. If any plot points from the Hulk movie came up, I had no problem watching The Avengers without having seen The Hulk.

Thor is the big one, since they introduce Thor, Loki, and the idea of Cosmic Space Technomagic/Aliens into the MCU.

[lt_murgen]

It is pretty well spelled out in the Marvel Cinematic Universe wiki.

Ang Lee hulk, no. Hulk, no. Incredible hulk, yes.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Hulk smash.

[Cikomyr]

Hum.. so Yesterday's SHIELD was a repeat of the Scorch episode, right?

'cause that's what they showed on CTV...

[Talya]

Hum.. so Yesterday's SHIELD was a repeat of the Scorch episode, right?

'cause that's what they showed on CTV...

yeah, there was no new episode last night.

If I ever forget why I hate network television, they don't take long to remind me.

Seriously, people, how hard is it to film 23 episodes first, and air them in uninterupted succession?

[BRC]

yeah, there was no new episode last night.

If I ever forget why I hate network television, they don't take long to remind me.

Seriously, people, how hard is it to film 23 episodes first, and air them in uninterupted succession?

I could see them skipping last week for Thanksgiving, but they have all sorts of bizzare algorithms. Just look at Gravity Falls, a brilliant show that somehow got put on "We'll show four episodes over the course of five months on seemingly random saturdays"

[huttj509]

yeah, there was no new episode last night.

If I ever forget why I hate network television, they don't take long to remind me.

Seriously, people, how hard is it to film 23 episodes first, and air them in uninterupted succession?

I use http://www.airdates.tv/ to track my shows. You can highlight shows different colors and it'll highlight all episodes of that show the same color. Makes it really easy to track when things are bumped for holidays/sports/etc.

[Cikomyr]

Well, I've seen on IMDB that the Girl in the Flower Dress will be back next episode..

Probably to get killed. It's been the norm for recurring chars, has it not?

[Hiro Protagonest]

I could see them skipping last week for Thanksgiving, but they have all sorts of bizzare algorithms. Just look at Gravity Falls, a brilliant show that somehow got put on "We'll show four episodes over the course of five months on seemingly random saturdays"

Yeah, Disney's completely inconsistent schedule for Phineas and Ferb, Kim Possible (they are still showing that), and Gravity Falls infuriates me.

[Philistine]

yeah, there was no new episode last night.

If I ever forget why I hate network television, they don't take long to remind me.

Seriously, people, how hard is it to film 23 episodes first, and air them in uninterupted succession?

Pretty hard, actually. The big issue (of course!) is money. It's not just that the networks would have to pay for entire seasons of new shows before getting any feedback on how audiences will receive them, and would have to commit to follow-on seasons of potential returning shows just a few weeks into the "current" season, though these two in themselves would result in even less risk-taking and creativity than network TV currently allows. Then by the time a show has established itself as a winner and been given a full-season pickup for the next year, it's already too late to get the new season written and produced ahead of the initial air date. The other problem is that accountants generally seem to prefer a nice, steady stream of small outgoing payments (say, from ordering a handful of episodes at a time) to paying out the same amount as a single large lump sum (say, from paying for an entire season's worth of episodes at once).

Note that even having a whole season ready to go wouldn't get rid of sporting events, holidays, and the like, so you could (and would!) still get pre-empted when either a) the network thinks they have a one-time event that'll be better for their overall ratings or b) the network figures nobody's going to be watching TV anyway so that airing new episodes would be counterproductive overall.

[Aotrs Commander]

I think it is interesting that for a rare occasion, US and UK TV are in lockstep (presumably as Channel 4 have to abide by the US broadcasting)... It's rare enough we get a show literally only a day or so after the US instead of waiting months. (Though that means UK telly tends to be marginally better about showing things consistently (unless it's children's TV in which case HAH!), though they've been getting worse of late.)

[Logic]

yeah, there was no new episode last night.

If I ever forget why I hate network television, they don't take long to remind me.

Seriously, people, how hard is it to film 23 episodes first, and air them in uninterupted succession?

It is a tiny bit hard to do that because of days off, and vacations of staff, and holidays where viewer interest (and therefore ratings) will wane.

The biggest reason is to strech it out for approximately 9 months to cover the peak TV watching hours of the peak days of the peak months.

[Flickerdart]

I think it is interesting that for a rare occasion, US and UK TV are in lockstep (presumably as Channel 4 have to abide by the US broadcasting)... It's rare enough we get a show literally only a day or so after the US instead of waiting months. (Though that means UK telly tends to be marginally better about showing things consistently (unless it's children's TV in which case HAH!), though they've been getting worse of late.)

You guys get QI earlier, so don't complain.

[Aotrs Commander]

You guys get QI earlier, so don't complain.

Not sure that even QI (or even QI and Doctor Who) quite rates as compensation for the entirity of all the stuff (including, for example, the vast majority of animation shows) that we've had to wait for over the past, say, thirty years or so of my life and unlife time...

[Hopeless]

So anyone catch the latest promo of the episode airing later this week?

Got wondering if the guy who Po corrected is Ward's older brother?

One of the Centipede enhanced trio who resembles Ward a bit, given some discussion that Ward's family might have Maggia links I was wondering if anyone thinks the revelation in that episode might be Ward meeting his older abusive brother?

[Palanan]

LOVED tonight's episode. Probably the best one yet. They've developed enough of a story to bring a number of threads together, and I loved watching the team vs. team aspect of the two sides closing in on each other.

Best line, as always, goes to Coulson:

"Agent May specializes in private."

And speaking of a certain tetchy agent....

May clearly doesn't do well with emotional distractions. She's downright snippy this time around: overreacting to Ward, actively resenting Skye, generally being borderline unprofessional. And she's the one with the rep as the ultimate professional.

Really, it looks like she's more rattled by the notion of an in-team romance than Ward is.

And, of course: "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"

Considering that Mike says, not once, but two or three times that he'd do anything for his son...well, yeah, something like that was bound to happen. I'm hoping he survived the explosion, but sadly it doesn't look likely. His suit sounded fancy, but probably couldn't protect him from that kind of conflagration.

As for the cliffhanger:

Actually, the lead-up to the cliffhanger, when Coulson is kidnapped: I'd like to think this lays all the LMD speculation to rest.

Consider that the Centipede people have no idea exactly what happened to Coulson after he died. Thus, they don't know what he is. And yet, they use a tranquilizer on him--which by definition wasn't customized to his new physiology, since they have no idea what that could be. They just hit him with a generic knockout injection.

And it worked.

Do LMDs respond to general knockout injections? Pretty sure they don't. Pretty sure something else is going on.

And finally, on the cellist:

Glad to see the cellist got a mention--and that resolves the question of whether or not she knows Coulson is still around. The Avengers think he's gone, thus the cellist thinks he's gone.

Very sad. We all need a little cellist in our lives.

:smallfrown:

[BWR]

Best episode so far, but still not great. I still want Skye to die in a fire, but at this point I think it's as much residual hate as anything she did this episode. I still think she was annoying but she was not too prominent, fortunately.

At last we're seeing some real development with the shadowy bigbad, and they are somewhat intelligent, well-informed and competant. Not great by any means, especially since their supersoldiers went down like punks against mundanes. One would think that a supersoldier with hth training would win out against a supersoldier without, but oh well.

[Hopeless]

Assuming Mike has been stabilised, maybe the version Centipede use to stabilise their soldiers weakens them far more than Mike.

Could also be due to Mike receiving SHIELD training and unlike Skye is actually a very quick learner well either that or someone's been watching another Joss Whedon series!:smallwink:

[Asheram]

Edit: Nevermind, explained by extensive cutting.

[dehro]

And finally, on the cellist:


Very sad. We all need a little cellist in our lives.

:smallfrown:

there you go
http://images.tvfanatic.com/iu/t_xlarge_l/v1371072487/leonard-the-cellist.png

on another note, as soon as
mike pulled out the pic of his son, Reginald D Hunter's voice went off in my head, saying "he dead"

like so (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni5J_yXuWLk)

[Daimbert]

And speaking of a certain tetchy agent....

May clearly doesn't do well with emotional distractions. She's downright snippy this time around: overreacting to Ward, actively resenting Skye, generally being borderline unprofessional. And she's the one with the rep as the ultimate professional.

Really, it looks like she's more rattled by the notion of an in-team romance than Ward is.



I see this, and you might as well, as the follow-up to the previous episode. May was the ultimate professional because she was incredibly tightly controlled and didn't care about anything but the mission. She's clearly loosening up a bit in this episode, with the reaction in the sparring with Ward (the smile). The problem is that as her control is slipping, it's really SLIPPING. May hasn't had to think about those sorts of cases for so long that she's going with her quick reactions, except they aren't what they used to be. She always ends up regretting the actions she's taking, and in some of the scenes looks like she's wondering why in the world she did that.

Heck, the "specializing in private" line highlights this: May normally wouldn't even HINT at anything that she wasn't supposed to say, and yet she not only almost bursts out with what she wasn't supposed to say to Skye, and not only flat-out says that Coulson knows stuff and isn't telling Skye about it, she also takes Ward to task over their relationship in a place where she didn't want to talk about it AND where it could be overheard easily. She's not acting the way she used to, and hopefully the next episode will at least start her down the path of being able to USE her new emotional connections and expressions of that without having it cause more problems at bad times.

That being said, I don't believe that Ward wasn't trying to protect her because he cared about her. It was established as his character -- and not changed -- that he feels the need to protect everyone, and so his not wanting to protect her is itself unbelievable, and that he wouldn't want to protect someone that he clearly has strong feelings for is utterly incomprehensible. So I think she was right about that.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Daimbert
It was established as his character -- and not changed -- that he feels the need to protect everyone, and so his not wanting to protect her is itself unbelievable, and that he wouldn't want to protect someone that he clearly has strong feelings for is utterly incomprehensible. So I think she was right about that.

Agreed with everything you've said, and especially with this. Very nicely done; helps flesh out their verbal sparring.

But really, you don't find many women who get angry when a guy takes a supersoldier punch for them.

:smalltongue:

[Reverent-One]

Heck, the "specializing in private" line highlights this: May normally wouldn't even HINT at anything that she wasn't supposed to say, and yet she not only almost bursts out with what she wasn't supposed to say to Skye, and not only flat-out says that Coulson knows stuff and isn't telling Skye about it,

She says that Coulson isn't telling her...that she needs to grow up. It's a fake out for the audience, since we think she means to tell Skye that Coulson already knows more about her parents, but she doesn't actually reveal anything important.

[LaZodiac]

She says that Coulson isn't telling her...that she needs to grow up. It's a fake out for the audience, since we think she means to tell Skye that Coulson already knows more about her parents, but she doesn't actually reveal anything important.

She's considering it though, I could tell. She seemed like she was about to say something after "The truth is", but I could tell from her acting that she was all but literally biting her tongue.

[Cikomyr]

This episode had 2 big threads: the story and the character part


Well, that was interesting. Nice to see Centipede has plenty of weaknesses, so it makes them at least an interesting villains trying to deal with their own problems; instead of some sort of super-omniscient organization who keeps pulling new toys out of their asses.


The episode was 100% about May.

She is starting to crack. Either from her first active duty since The Incident, from having to deal with Sky on a permanent basis, from her conflicted relationship with Ward or her experience with the Berserker Staff.

She is starting to crack. And now she's in charge of the madhouse.

[Daimbert]

She says that Coulson isn't telling her...that she needs to grow up. It's a fake out for the audience, since we think she means to tell Skye that Coulson already knows more about her parents, but she doesn't actually reveal anything important.

My point was more that she tells SKYE that Coulson knows things about her that he isn't telling her, which the audience already knew but Skye didn't. The whole point of them not telling Skye things and the run-around between Coulson and May was to make sure that Skye didn't realize that, for whatever reason. They might be planning to tell her later, but they weren't going to do it now ... and then May just blurts it out in conversation. Even her reaction shows that she clearly didn't WANT to actually say that.

[Illieas]

the basic frame work of this episode was strong in my opinion but the execution on the plot i felt was really bad.

the jail breakout scene, the ambush scene, and the hostage scene. THere are no useage of guns. it just hurts the believability alot that this series set in modern times just does not have guns or are missing them in cases that they should be avialable. Attacking the facility, everyone should have guns.

WHy the two soldiers flee in the ambush, I did not get. we have two down agents may and ward that could have been finished off. A severly wounded super soldier and coulson unable to do anything. Sure they are down one of the three soldiers but if the fighting continue i could see the 2 soldiers winning.

Hostage rescue. It is lazy hostage scene. the kid is in the car by that time coulso is picked up
also ward had a shot when they were carrying coulson. they explain it away as they will kill coulson. THe hostage negoiation changed to coulson they obviously want him alive instead. accidentally killing coulson not really a problem if the gun ward was using was loaded with night nights.
the scene could have easily changed to make sense. have the tankers smoke out the moment the kid was retreived. it obscures wards shot and the villan can play the hostage switch. Gun can play his reversal and be blown up but the ability of the SHIELD agents to counter move would have been more limited and their failure make sense.

[Joran]

At last we're seeing some real development with the shadowy bigbad, and they are somewhat intelligent, well-informed and competant. Not great by any means, especially since their supersoldiers went down like punks against mundanes. One would think that a supersoldier with hth training would win out against a supersoldier without, but oh well.

It's mentioned in the episode that Mike has been training basically non-stop with SHIELD since the incident. And he still got his butt mostly kicked.

The thing that surprised me is how superhuman these guys were. I thought Captain America is basically the finest human specimen, capable of the upper limits of what a human body can do without being supernatural. I don't remember him being able to push a tractor and apparently, he's even better than Mike was.

[BWR]

Is MCU Cap explicitly just peak human? I got the feeling that he was a fair bit beyond that, even if not as strong as the Iron Man armor.

[Sanguine]

Is MCU Cap explicitly just peak human? I got the feeling that he was a fair bit beyond that, even if not as strong as the Iron Man armor.

IIRC there are one or two scenes in Captain America where he pulls off some definitely superhuman feats of strength. Then again I haven't seen that movie in a long time, so it's entirely possible that I'm misremembering.

Edit: There is also the scene in Avengers with the punching bags. But I honestly don't know enough about punching bags to say if that was possible with just peak human strength.

[theNater]

also ward had a shot when they were carrying coulson. they explain it away as they will kill coulson. THe hostage negoiation changed to coulson they obviously want him alive instead. accidentally killing coulson not really a problem if the gun ward was using was loaded with night nights.
Our team doesn't know why they want Coulson, and so can't confirm that they need him alive. It is very likely, however, that denying him to SHIELD is also valuable to them, whatever they want him for. Killing him might not be optimal for them, but they'd probably prefer it over letting SHIELD get him back.

[Hiro Protagonest]

IIRC there are one or two scenes in Captain America where he pulls off some definitely superhuman feats of strength. Then again I haven't seen that movie in a long time, so it's entirely possible that I'm misremembering.

Edit: There is also the scene in Avengers with the punching bags. But I honestly don't know enough about punching bags to say if that was possible with just peak human strength.

I remember when he was escaping the burning facility with Bucky he made a jump that looked impossible.

It also depends on whether it's peak physical fitness, or peak physical fitness (he also seems to have gotten smarter, which I think is canon in the comics, but that's unknown) plus he can easily bypass the inhibitors and the only effect is he has to eat more.

[LaZodiac]

The Extremis could easily make people stronger then Captain America since it gives them beyond the human capability. Captain America is the theoretical pinnacle of human superiority. Go one step beyond that and you're one step beyond Captain America.

[Hiro Protagonest]

The Extremis could easily make people stronger then Captain America since it gives them beyond the human capability. Captain America is the theoretical pinnacle of human superiority. Go one step beyond that and you're one step beyond Captain America.

Except he asked if he beat Cap's time.

Granted, they may just be hiding the fact that he's stronger than Cap (I'm pretty sure Cap's intelligence was also amplified while Mike's wasn't, but Cap can't punch through solid stone with bare hands).

[LaZodiac]

Except he asked if he beat Cap's time.

Granted, they may just be hiding the fact that he's stronger than Cap (I'm pretty sure Cap's intelligence was also amplified while Mike's wasn't, but Cap can't punch through solid stone with bare hands).

Yes, but Captain America has more skill then him. Thus why he beat the time.

[Flickerdart]

Peak human capability is pretty damn impressive - strongmen have dragged around jets, never mind bulldozers.

[The New Bruceski]

Does it matter? The guy's been Whedon'd.

[huttj509]

Does it matter? The guy's been Whedon'd.

He'll get better.

I think he'll go for a walk.

[Joran]

Does it matter? The guy's been Whedon'd.


I won't believe he's dead until I see his corpse cleaved in two, or shot and dying in someone's arms, or driven into his chair with a spike...

Or stabbed and falls through a portal or sacrifices himself to save the city of Los Angeles or sacrifices herself to save the world...

Or gets infected by a disease and resurrects as an ancient goddess or gets sent to the attic or just dies of a brain aneurysm.

If Mike is dead, J. August Richards has played two characters that have been Whedon'd (although Gunn's death was only implied.)


Man, Joss Whedon's death count is pretty high...

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Jade Dragon
It also depends on whether it's peak physical fitness, or peak physical fitness....

...oro?

:smallconfused:

[Silver Swift]

Doesn't Cap casually jump out of plane without a parachute in the trailer for the winter soldier?

Sure, people have survived stuff like that, but doing it with the apparent intention of walking away unharmed sounds plenty superhuman to me.


Edit: Also, dying in a fireball with no on screen corpse? Yeah no, he's alive.

[Talya]

Man, Joss Whedon's death count is pretty high...

Death isn't always all that permanent for Whedon.

Buffy died. Twice.

She got better, twice.

[lt_murgen]

Well, here is what the marvel wikipedia says about his abilities:

Artificially Enhanced Physiology: Rogers has no superhuman powers, although as a result of the Super-Soldier Serum, he was transformed from a frail young man into a "perfect" specimen of human development and conditioning. Rogers is as intelligent, strong, fast, agile, and durable as it was possible for a human being to be without being considered superhuman. Although the SSS is definite, he maintains an overall healthy lifestyle including a regular exercise regimen and a balanced diet.

■Peak Human Strength: Rogers' physical strength is enhanced to the very peak of human potential. As a result, he is as physically strong as a human being can be without being classified as superhuman.[56][57] Captain America had been seen bench pressing 544 kg/1,200 lbs which is consistent with his strength level, as benching is easier than military press lifting.[57] This strength also extends to his legs, enabling him to leap 6mt/20ft out in a single bound and 10ft/3 meters into the air without a running start. He can snap steel handcuffs and chains, and is capable of breaking through wooden walls and steel doors with a single kick. He can also military press 800 pounds
■Peak Human Speed: He can run at speeds of up to approximately 48 kilometers per hour (30 miles per hour) or higher, and has on occasion run a mile (1.6 km) in 73 seconds (49 mph/78 kph) when under duress.
■Peak Human Durability: His bones and muscles are denser and harder than normal, to the highest human potential, which makes him very durable compared to a normal human. He is durable enough to the point that if a person beats him with a thick wooden stick, the stick would eventually break and Rogers would show little discomfort. This level of durability is how he survived other forms of extensive punishment throughout his career such as falls from several stories like when he landed on a car from 6000cm/200 feet with no discomfort. Roger's durability is high enough to where he can take blows from beings with low superhuman strength, and not be fatally injured.
■Peak Human Agility: His agility is greater than that of an Olympic gold medalist.He can coordinate his body with balance, flexibility, and dexterity.

■Peak Human Reflexes: Rogers' reflexes border on superhuman level. His reaction speed is 20 kph, which makes it possible for him to dodge gunfire even in point blank range from multiple gunners at the same time.
■Peak Human Stamina: Rogers' body eliminates the excessive build-up of fatigue-producing chemicals in his muscles, granting him exceptional endurance and lung capacity. He can exert himself at peak capacity for a hour without any rest and before showing any signs of fatigue.

■Peak Human Healing: Rogers' healing speed and efficiency is at the highest limits of human potential, which means he can heal faster than most humans. The white blood cells (WBCs) and the SSS in his body are efficient enough to fight off any microbe, foreign body and others from his body keeping him healthy and immune to most if not all infections, diseases and disorders, also Rogers cannot become intoxicated by alcohol, drugs, or impurities in the air and is immune to terrestrial diseases. He is also highly resistant to hypnosis or gases that could limit his focus.
■Peak Human Mental Process: His mental performance has been greatly enhanced, allowing his mind to operate in the most efficient and rapid manner possible. One manifestation of this is his tactical genius; the ability to quickly process multiple information streams (e.g., threat assessment) and rapidly respond to changing tactical situations. Rogers also possesses an eidetic memory, meaning that he never forgets anything and has perfect recall. This enables him to remember any military tactic and apply it to any situation.[58]
■Peak Human Senses: Rogers' senses of sight, hearing, smell, taste, and touch are at the highest possible limits of human potential. He once said that he is able to dodge bullets because he sees faster than them.
■Peak Human Longevity The SSS dramatically slows Roger's aging due to extensively healthy cells. Sersi once stated because of this it is possible that he may indefinitely maintain his youth.This would presumably also include Isaiah Bradley and Josiah X, two others exposed to the Super Soldier Serum. This is true in the case of Isaiah Bradley, who has been shown to be in peak physical condition for someone being between 60 and 70 years old.


Of course, that is what the mainstream Marvel is. The Marvel Cinematic Universe can make whatever claims it wants.

[BRC]

Doesn't Cap casually jump out of plane without a parachute in the trailer for the winter soldier?

Sure, people have survived stuff like that, but doing it with the apparent intention of walking away unharmed sounds plenty superhuman to me.


Edit: Also, dying in a fireball with no on screen corpse? Yeah no, he's alive.
I think that was The Falcon, he wasn't wearing a parachute because he had a jetpack/wingsuit combo.

As for this episode, as much as I think Skye has potential as a character, at this point she's kind of a weird influence on the show.

The team treats Mike like he used to be evil. He USED to be scared and under the influence of experimental technology, but they spend the first part of the episode looking at him all shifty-eyed because he once, while not entirely himself...didn't just turn himself into the organization he did not know existed? It's not like he was really their enemy, he just wanted to be safe with his son. They came after him.
Meanwhile Skye is still on the team after 1) ACTUALLY opposing SHIELD, 2) Infiltrating SHIELD, 3) Lying to them.

Yes Skye's intentions were non-sinister as these things go, but neither were Mike's. He did not want to explode.

I get the purpose of Skye's role in the show, but she seems like a weird graft on the team.

They've rendered her mostly inoffensive at this point, now they just need to make her useful. Show off those combined hacking/people skills a little bit more, or make her outsider's perspective valuable.

[LaZodiac]

I thought they were just nervous Mike could explode at any moment.

[Silver Swift]

I think that was The Falcon, he wasn't wearing a parachute because he had a jetpack/wingsuit combo.

Nope (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=NLWsK1ZFunA#t=20), definitely Cap. Though he is aiming for water, depending on how much of physics is crying in a corner that might help.

[Hiro Protagonest]

...oro?

:smallconfused:

The parentheses awkwardly broke up that sentence. Basically, it depends on whether or not he won't get damaged from the strain after exerting his muscles to points where only humans that are under heavy adrenaline rushes get.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by BRC
I think that was The Falcon, he wasn't wearing a parachute because he had a jetpack/wingsuit combo.

It's definitely Cap. He's deflecting Romanoff's banter about dating co-workers just before he takes the plunge.

[BRC]

It's definitely Cap. He's deflecting Romanoff's banter about dating co-workers just before he takes the plunge.

Oh Right, I got confused

[Mauve Shirt]

Well that was a drama llama episode!
No way he died again, he's alive in the trailers for the next season. :smalltongue:

[The New Bruceski]

Well that was a drama llama episode!
No way he died again, he's alive in the trailers for the next season. :smalltongue:

Coulson or Superdude? Because I saw one in the trailer but not the other.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Well, it did say "died again".

But Mike is totally alive. I mean, they saw Coulson die and he's still alive. :smalltongue:

[Nadevoc]

Well, it did say "died again".

But Mike is totally alive. I mean, they saw Coulson die and he's still alive. :smalltongue:

They didn't see Coulson die. They saw the car explode, but no one was in it (there were no scorched bodies or anything). Then the copter flew off. Essentially, (at least the way I read it), the Centipedes blew the tank that obstructed Ward's view, killing(?) Mike. Then they veered to the right, hopped off the wharf or whatever, and grabbed a copter. Then they proceeded to blow the car (whether to eliminate trace evidence, to try to throw SHIELD off the trail, or just because they like explosions isn't quite clear). They would've dragged Coulson into the heli with them.

At least, that's how I read the scene.

[Hiro Protagonest]

...I meant in The Avengers.

[DigoDragon]

And, of course: "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"
Considering that Mike says, not once, but two or three times that he'd do anything for his son...well, yeah, something like that was bound to happen. I'm hoping he survived the explosion, but sadly it doesn't look likely. His suit sounded fancy, but probably couldn't protect him from that kind of conflagration.

Betrayal!
And even if the suit did, his head was exposed so that's still not helping him. To me it really sucked. He definitely deserved to go out fighting. Maybe by taking a second soldier with him in the explosion.

Suddenly dying like that without a fight was... well it didn't allow me like the episode as much as I could have.



Death isn't always all that permanent for Whedon.
Buffy died. Twice.
She got better, twice.

True, but Buffy is a main character. A little harder to keep the show going if her death was permanent. :smalltongue:


It was still a pretty good episode overall to me. Comparing episodes with Centipede in it to "Random villain of the week" episodes and I can definitely see more success with Centipede episodes. It is a nice twist at the end that they wanted coulson and to know how he came back from the dead.

I guess "Step 3" is getting the cheat code for extra lives. :smallbiggrin:

[TFT]

Death isn't always all that permanent for Whedon.

Buffy died. Twice.

She got better, twice.

Guys, I understand it's an old show, but watch your spoilers, please. I'm still mid second season of my first watchthrough of Buffy. Now I'm going to be waiting for that to pop up. :smallannoyed:

Anyways, I really liked this episode, and I'm guessing we'll finally be getting some info on what happened to Coulson. Considering they've been teasing it the whole season the at least partial reveal should happen in the mid season finale, which will be nice.

Also, with all the time spent explaining how good mike's suit was, he most likely survived but in bad shape. Plus, it would be more interesting storywise for him to have to deal with the fallout.

[Cikomyr]

Oh my god.. guys...

I just discovered!! The Girl in the Flower Dress (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1550948/?ref_=tt_cl_t12) worked at the WHO research facility during the most recent Zombie outbreak!!! (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0816711/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_8)

[dehro]

ah.. so that's where I'd seen her before.

[Xondoure]

She was also on Misfits unless I'm very much mistaken.

edit: yup. Actually checked the link.

[Hopeless]

So do you think at the start of the next episode we see inside the helicopter and Mike suddenly appears trying to rescue Coulson and is shoved overboard with one of the surviving supersoldiers... but whilst doing so he passed over to Coulson that swab or whatever they dabbed on his hand...

Now that would be a heck of a way to start the next episode but not reveal what Mike did until Fitz realises he's picking up TWO traces...

Of course I'm hoping for a flashback where Mike does tell Coulson they were after him and he was dabbed whilst aboard the plane without anyone other than Fitz and Mike knowing maybe not even Mike.

[Aotrs Commander]

With Whedon, of course, it could go either way...

[Philistine]

Guys, I understand it's an old show, but watch your spoilers, please. I'm still mid second season of my first watchthrough of Buffy. Now I'm going to be waiting for that to pop up. :smallannoyed:

No. It is not even remotely reasonable to expect people to be wary of "spoiling" a TV show that aired its final eisode more than a decade ago.

[TFT]

No. It is not even remotely reasonable to expect people to be wary of "spoiling" a TV show that aired its final eisode more than a decade ago.

Look, just because its over a decade old doesn't mean everyone who ever wants to see it has seen it. 15 years since it premiered means that there's a whole new generation (Yes, an entire generation's worth of people who had 0 chance to watch it because they were, you know, under 7 or 8) that was outside of the intended age range of the show that might now be interested in watching it.

And as far as I can tell, the show is a cult classic by this point, which means the majority of people don't know the show. Buffy spoilers aren't even absorbed into pop culture via osmosis like Star Wars, Harry Potter, or even Citizen Kane, so there isn't even that excuse.

I don't think it's too much to assume there's someone on the internet who hasn't watched/played/read something before their time or who might, in the future, want to watch something they haven't seen before.

1 more thing: Guess the peak amount of viewers of Buffy when it aired compared to the entire U.S. population. If you guess anywhere above 4%, you're wrong. Even if you multiply that a few times, that still leaves the majority of the population having not watched it, statistically.

[dehro]

not the point really.. I'm pretty sure plenty of people haven't watched Casablanca, or The Thin Red Line, or Blackadder or one of the older (or newer) disney classics.

that doesn't mean we can't talk about them because, heaven forfend someone might want to watch it still so, let's not spoil it for them.
it makes sense to spoilerize episodes of shows that are currently aired, or recent movies... getting in a tiff over somebody revealing something, however crucial, about a show that has run a decade ago just isn't reasonable, generational gap notwithstanding... especially so if it has gained cult status and is constantly referenced, repeatedly so on this forum
nettiquette can only go so far.

[Hawriel]

Look, just because its over a decade old doesn't mean everyone who ever wants to see it has seen it. 15 years since it premiered means that there's a whole new generation (Yes, an entire generation's worth of people who had 0 chance to watch it because they were, you know, under 7 or 8) that was outside of the intended age range of the show that might now be interested in watching it.

And as far as I can tell, the show is a cult classic by this point, which means the majority of people don't know the show. Buffy spoilers aren't even absorbed into pop culture via osmosis like Star Wars, Harry Potter, or even Citizen Kane, so there isn't even that excuse.

I don't think it's too much to assume there's someone on the internet who hasn't watched/played/read something before their time or who might, in the future, want to watch something they haven't seen before.

1 more thing: Guess the peak amount of viewers of Buffy when it aired compared to the entire U.S. population. If you guess anywhere above 4%, you're wrong. Even if you multiply that a few times, that still leaves the majority of the population having not watched it, statistically.

Ok self righteous spoiler rant much.

I and any one else is not going to censor our selves because some one may or may not have watched or read a movie, TV show, comic book, or novel. This is an open discussion. If you personally do not want to have some thing spoiled it is your responsibility to avoid that topic.

[dehro]

also missing the mark just a little bit. I agree with the sentiment, but he was talking about a show that is not in fact the subject to this thread, so he had no reason to expect to be spoilered on that one.
which still doesn't make his request reasonable.

[Cikomyr]

Ok self righteous spoiler rant much.

I and any one else is not going to censor our selves because some one may or may not have watched or read a movie, TV show, comic book, or novel. This is an open discussion. If you personally do not want to have some thing spoiled it is your responsibility to avoid that topic.

If we were in a discussion about Buffy in general, I'd agree. But this is a discussion about SHIELD; people aren't expecting Buffy spoilers.

[BRC]

There is usually a statue of limitations though. Rosebud is the name of the sled and all that. It's a question of the chances of somebody who WANTS to see it but has not seen it being around. The older a show, the greater chance that everybody who wants to see it has seen it.

That said, I doubt Mike is dead. Whedon has a body count, but he does not kill off characters casually. If Mike was dead we would SEE him die, and we would see other characters grieving.

He could be dead, they could open the next episode with them finding Mike's corpse in the rubble, but I still doubt it.

Whedon is not a fan of redshirts. He does not casually kill off characters. If a character dies they do so on-screen in such a way as to maximize the blow. Mike's "Death" is probably mid-season cliffhanger bait, they'll dig him out of the rubble seriously injured, so they can bench their guest-star super soldier for a while.

[TFT]

If we were in a discussion about Buffy in general, I'd agree. But this is a discussion about SHIELD; people aren't expecting Buffy spoilers.

This. Okay, I'll admit I overreacted a bit, but it's really not cool to walk into an Agents of Shield discussion and have the phrase "Buffy died twice" staring at you as the first new post after you finished watching a season 2 two-parter on the same show.

Taking logical steps to avoid spoilers is one thing, but this thread is only tangentially related to Buffy in that Joss Whedon produced both. If this was a Buffy discussion or on the topic of vampires I'd honestly be asking for it, but I personally don't find it unreasonable to spoil major spoilers for something that isn't "Rosebud was his sled" or "Vader is Luke's father" levels of pop culture osmosis when the topic isn't explicitly on the subject or media. I'd like to think I give the same courtesy to others in similar situations.

[Joran]

This. Okay, I'll admit I overreacted a bit, but it's really not cool to walk into an Agents of Shield discussion and have the phrase "Buffy died twice" staring at you as the first new post after you finished watching a season 2 two-parter on the same show.

Taking logical steps to avoid spoilers is one thing, but this thread is only tangentially related to Buffy in that Joss Whedon produced both. If this was a Buffy discussion or on the topic of vampires I'd honestly be asking for it, but I personally don't find it unreasonable to spoil major spoilers for something that isn't "Rosebud was his sled" or "Vader is Luke's father" levels of pop culture osmosis when the topic isn't explicitly on the subject or media. I'd like to think I give the same courtesy to others in similar situations.

That's why I put my "list of Whedon deaths" in a spoiler box. I also intentionally kept it vague, so people who know the references would get it, but ones who didn't watch would skip right on through. I have several series that I'd like to watch that probably will be spoiled but it just seems like a good idea to assume no one else has watched it. (Battlestar Galactica, Game of Thrones, and Breaking Bad being the series).

On the plus side, it's a really minor spoiler, there are a lot more spoilers that could damage your enjoyment of a twist/surprise; this one shouldn't.

P.S. Hope you're enjoying Buffy :)

[Philistine]

This. Okay, I'll admit I overreacted a bit, but it's really not cool to walk into an Agents of Shield discussion and have the phrase "Buffy died twice" staring at you as the first new post after you finished watching a season 2 two-parter on the same show.

Taking logical steps to avoid spoilers is one thing, but this thread is only tangentially related to Buffy in that Joss Whedon produced both. If this was a Buffy discussion or on the topic of vampires I'd honestly be asking for it, but I personally don't find it unreasonable to spoil major spoilers for something that isn't "Rosebud was his sled" or "Vader is Luke's father" levels of pop culture osmosis when the topic isn't explicitly on the subject or media. I'd like to think I give the same courtesy to others in similar situations.

You're not talking about courtesy, you're talking about "enabling behavior" at this point.

[Cikomyr]

You're not talking about courtesy, you're talking about "enabling behavior" at this point.

Let's play nice here, mkay?

[Philistine]

That is nice. "Demanding a blanket ban on casual references to a show that wrapped more than ten years ago" goes way beyond the limits of courtesy.

[TFT]

That's why I put my "list of Whedon deaths" in a spoiler box. I also intentionally kept it vague, so people who know the references would get it, but ones who didn't watch would skip right on through. I have several series that I'd like to watch that probably will be spoiled but it just seems like a good idea to assume no one else has watched it. (Battlestar Galactica, Game of Thrones, and Breaking Bad being the series).

On the plus side, it's a really minor spoiler, there are a lot more spoilers that could damage your enjoyment of a twist/surprise; this one shouldn't.

P.S. Hope you're enjoying Buffy :)

Thanks for attempting to hide the spoilers. :smallsmile:

And I'm glad to hear it's a small spoiler in the grand scheme of things.

And yea, I even enjoyed the first season, but I'm not complaining that the second is better then the first by a bit.

But let's go back to Agents, since that's what this thread is for.

Preview post edit: Phillistine, please don't:

A. Insult my character by insinuating I'm an addict because you disagree with my opinon.
B. Create a straw man argument. I clearly wasn't proposing a ban on spoilers, just proposing to actually hide them in spoilers so that this kind of situation doesn't happen again.

Thanks.

[Cikomyr]

That is nice. "Demanding a blanket ban on casual references to a show that wrapped more than ten years ago" goes way beyond the limits of courtesy.

I do not think so. Just put them in spoilers, 'cause we have a spoiler tag. and 'lo and behold, you can identify a spoiler tag so he knows what it's referring, since blank spoiler tags have been used mostly to refer to plot points of the series.

[Phobia]

It's really no big deal to put a spoiler in brackets, guy.

[The New Bruceski]

Whedon is not a fan of redshirts. He does not casually kill off characters. If a character dies they do so on-screen in such a way as to maximize the blow. Mike's "Death" is probably mid-season cliffhanger bait, they'll dig him out of the rubble seriously injured, so they can bench their guest-star super soldier for a while.

When Mike blew up it was a kick in the heartstrings. When the car blew up I went "okay, misdirection." When they shot Ward on the way out it was "oh come ON! Isn't this getting old by now?"

[LaZodiac]

When Mike blew up it was a kick in the heartstrings. When the car blew up I went "okay, misdirection." When they shot Ward on the way out it was "oh come ON! Isn't this getting old by now?"

Say what you will about Centipede, they're thorough.

[RoboChap]

Say what you will about Centipede, they're thorough.

Yeah, I actually think I'd be more annoyed if they DIDN'T go to the trouble of getting rid of as many of their enemies/witnesses as possible. It's like the Bond villain/Austin Powers laziness of "Why don't you just kill him?" "No, I'm going to place him in an easily escapable situation with a ridiculously elaborate exotic death" "Aren't you even going to watch?" "No no, I'm going to leave them alone and not witness their deaths and just assume everything went to plan". I much prefer a smart villain who will actually try to kill as many of the good guys as possible, rather than just leave after an appropriate amount of drama :P

[Joran]

When Mike blew up it was a kick in the heartstrings. When the car blew up I went "okay, misdirection." When they shot Ward on the way out it was "oh come ON! Isn't this getting old by now?"

Well, at least they didn't shoot the kid.

[The New Bruceski]

Yeah, I actually think I'd be more annoyed if they DIDN'T go to the trouble of getting rid of as many of their enemies/witnesses as possible. It's like the Bond villain/Austin Powers laziness of "Why don't you just kill him?" "No, I'm going to place him in an easily escapable situation with a ridiculously elaborate exotic death" "Aren't you even going to watch?" "No no, I'm going to leave them alone and not witness their deaths and just assume everything went to plan". I much prefer a smart villain who will actually try to kill as many of the good guys as possible, rather than just leave after an appropriate amount of drama :P

Oh yeah, it's completely legit from their viewpoint. The guy's got a sniper rifle and they have a clarvoyant, they'd want to cover their excape. It just felt like a bit too much from a TV perspective.

[Cikomyr]

Are we sure "Clairevoyant" isn't just some sort of codename?

[BRC]

Ward is fine, if he was meant to be seriously injured they would have shown us blood.

[RoboChap]

Are we sure "Clairevoyant" isn't just some sort of codename?

I would assume that it is, although with so many "No, pyschics don't exist" conversations, it wouldn't surprise me if it is some kind of seer leading to SHOCK WE WERE WRONG!!!!

I think they mentioned that the clairvoyant can't "see" Coulson but can "see" everyone else? Could easily just be a spy master with eyes and ears everywhere and is just called the Clairvoyant for added drama.

[LaZodiac]

I would assume that it is, although with so many "No, pyschics don't exist" conversations, it wouldn't surprise me if it is some kind of seer leading to SHOCK WE WERE WRONG!!!!

I think they mentioned that the clairvoyant can't "see" Coulson but can "see" everyone else? Could easily just be a spy master with eyes and ears everywhere and is just called the Clairvoyant for added drama.

Literal eyes, giving those special explody eyeballs.

[The New Bruceski]

I suspect the guy they broke out of prison is the Clairvoyant (and I use that term however they explain the abilities) but as a multiple personality kind of thing. The conversation in the car felt a lot like "he doesn't want to talk to you right now" sorts of conversations from movies.

[Cikomyr]

Actually, I suspect the Clairevoyant might be the illuminate guy who May had to bust to get her nickname?

Henceforth, the Clairevoyant is related to Sky, somehow.

[Hopeless]

I assumed he was in charge of the Eye Spy program and that their new acquisition is their contact with that organisation.

Whilst an interesting idea regarding him having a split personality the obsession with eyes suggests otherwise.

[Sith_Happens]

Whilst an interesting idea regarding him having a split personality the obsession with eyes suggests otherwise.

What does fixating on people's eyes have to do with DID?:smallconfused:

[Hopeless]

It dates back from comments that he was jailed after stabbing out a friend's eyes and then finished his dinner or was it his friends?

By itself it would support the idea he has a split personality but having watched Eye Spy, discovering they've equipped their Extremis variant Soldier's with the same eye transplant does tend to suggest he might either have been playing safe or like the Soldier's has an implant of his own and was warning Raina in a way so he wouldn't have to kill her the same way he did his friend.

Now look back and imagine that scene where he gently warns her and consider he was actually protecting her from the real Clairvoyant and rather than being insane he's been left somewhat unhinged because he's had his own implant alot longer than maybe even Amador or Coulson's former protege...:smalleek:

[DigoDragon]

Are we sure "Clairevoyant" isn't just some sort of codename?

Could be, or perhaps it's just someone really perceptive and good with planning. What's his name seems awefully protective of the Clairevoyant's identity though. That has my curiosity.

Particularly because his group has access to tech that's beating out SHIELD's cutting edge stuff. Also, there's still the issue with deciphering what was on that board from the eyespy episode. I suspect the Clairevoyant isn't human (could be communicating via simmilar way the Chitari spoke with Loki in Avengers).

[Palanan]

So, the Coulson's Origins Revealed episode, in which the Mystery Is Finally Explained:

WTF?!?!?

:furious:


Did that make sense to anyone? Anyone at all?

And does anyone else feel they should get a big, fat Lame Refund?
.

[Pex]

They didn't give a complete answer about Coulson, just acknowledging that Tahiti was an illusion. All we know now is that under Fury's orders Caulson was given heavy duty operations to save his life, but during that time Caulson became conscious and wanted to die. Tahiti was made to have him want to live and cover up what he witnessed when he became conscious.

Anyway, not that I mind May was being literal truthful in getting Skye off the airplane to get her where she really would be useful, but I would have been interested in the storyline where May was being sincere. However, it's a good teamwork move and reinforces everyone is in it together.

[AgentofOdd]

I wanted more. Most folks already knew Coulson being resurrected was probable. There were so many unanswered questions and they just confirmed the one thing. How about expanding on that? Like WHY do this? by all accounts Coulson wasn't a particularly important Agent. Heck, he may be more important dead. He died in front of some powerful and influential people. They ever find out he was resurrected unethically, and SHIELD has gained some dangerous enemies.

[Flickerdart]

Seemed pretty straightforward to me:
Coming back to life was a trial that caused "neurological damage" probably due to the extreme pain since they had to keep him conscious throughout. The pain broke Coulson, and Fury wanted him fixed. What makes Coulson so special, however, is still unknown.

There was something weird, though:
How could Coulson see there was a machine digging around in his brain? It's not like the doctors would have told him. But he knew there was a "thing," not a person, messing around with his squishy bits.

[Daimbert]

The Coulson reveal is just the show remaining consistent in setting up big reveals that when they are revealed are just kinda "Oh". I will say that none of them are really illogical in any way, even this one; Fury trying really, really hard to save the man whose death saved the world is probably something he'd do, and sure they'd want to replace that traumatic memory that broke his will to live with a pleasant one but ... after all of that build up, down to getting Centipede involved and breaking them to find Coulson, it does leave a sense of "You mean that's it?!?"

I feel the same way about the revelation of why Skye infiltrated SHIELD; sure, she'd want to do that to find her parents, but again after all that build up ...

Now I'm afraid of what they'll do for Skye's parents. I'm still hoping that she's May's daughter, but agree with the hints that it's just the little girl she saved in her breakage incident, which is another disappointment.

That being said, this was one of the better episodes, which might be kinda sad. I liked May's look at Ward when he called it "his team", while hating that he actually said that as if he was in charge. But it was overall better.

As for Coulson seeing the thing, didn't they hint that there was some kind of reflective surface there that might have let him see it vaguely, enough to know that it was a thing?

[Aotrs Commander]

Well.

That's annoying.

Over here, there is still no sign of the series re-starting again - I just looked in next week's Radio Times - and Channel 4's website. They're repeating the episodes on E4 starting on Sunday, but no indication of when the next batch is going to be shown again. So at least end of January, then.

(Which also pretty much means I - and probably a lot of other UK viewers - are probably not going to be able to participate in this thread much anymore (save those who don't mind spoilers), since we could be weeks behind the US at this point. Given as it's not really practical to spoiler discussion here of something that might be 2-3 weeks old... Perhaps when the UK series eventually restarts, we should ask the mods if we can start a spin-off thread, to be merged once the UK showing ends? I dunno.)

[LaZodiac]

There was something weird, though:
How could Coulson see there was a machine digging around in his brain? It's not like the doctors would have told him. But he knew there was a "thing," not a person, messing around with his squishy bits.

Probably part "the reflection of it on something let him see it" and part "he can feel it tinkering on his brain and it's moving to robotically"

I feel that was a good episode, and if you honestly think this is the end of the mystery regarding Coulson's death, you're all silly.

[Daimbert]

I feel that was a good episode, and if you honestly think this is the end of the mystery regarding Coulson's death, you're all silly.

I don't think it is the end of the questions, but unless they're lying to us it is the end of one of the main ones, and one of the ones that was the most highlighted through all of this.

IE, the Tahiti memory, and "It's a magical place".

[Cikomyr]

The question has been answered. But it just raised more question, and I'm darn fine with it.

Why did Fury insisted on Coulson's return?
What exactly did they do?!?!

[Kitten Champion]

The method of Coulson's resurrection has never been that important to me, what I care about is the significance of this to him as a character.

How exactly, does he take this? He's the idealistic heart of an otherwise morally grey organization who's deeply committed to his mission and comrades, and in a very real sense everything that he is as a human being has been violated by that organization. That they may have been doing so out of benevolence rather than ulterior motivations, I'm not sure matters. Good can be very Dark at times.

It's interesting to explore.

Also, given the logical constraints of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, there wasn't too many choices as to how they could revive him. The Life-Model Decoys wouldn't be a thing with the semi-realism of technology available, and the Asgardians are just sufficiently advanced aliens.


Although they did spend too much time foreshadowing this, I know network television is more obvious in its establishing things as significant due to the fluctuating nature of its viewership, but it got to the point of "yeah, I got it, he died, Tahiti is suspicious" for me.

[Cikomyr]

To be perfectly fair, the implication of Fury's actions are strangely disturbing.

It means that you will never stop being an Agent of SHIELD. Even death can't stop the organization from calling you on the line...

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Also, given the logical constraints of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, there wasn't too many choices as to how they could revive him. The Life-Model Decoys wouldn't be a thing with the semi-realism of technology available,

Actually, we know that Life Model Decoys are a thing in the MCU from this dialog in the beginning of The Avengers:


Agent Coulson: Mr. Stark, we need to talk.
Tony Stark: ...You have reached the life model decoy of Tony Stark, please leave a message.
Coulson: This is urgent.
Stark: Then leave it urgently.
So they might have tweaked exactly how LMDs work a bit for realism, but they do exist.

[Z3ro]

Seems pretty obvious to me:

Nick Fury's playing the long game and knows SHIELD is going bad (see: Captain America Winter Soldier trailers) and needs someone he can trust to setup a mini-SHIELD while the big one's going bad. Coulson is just the perfect guy to do it; why else would he have his own mini-team running around when apparently SHIELD can just drop a team of people anywhere, anytime?

[Kitten Champion]

Actually, we know that Life Model Decoys are a thing in the MCU from this dialog in the beginning of The Avengers:


So they might have tweaked exactly how LMDs work a bit for realism, but they do exist.

We know that Tony has a sense of humour and Whedon likes references.

I'm not sure how a realistic LMD would work in this setting.

[Cikomyr]

We know that Tony has a sense of humour and Whedon likes references.

I'm not sure how a realistic LMD would work in this setting.

That's my take as well. There's no LMD in this setting, it was just a joke.

[RoboChap]

Seems pretty obvious to me:

Nick Fury's playing the long game and knows SHIELD is going bad (see: Captain America Winter Soldier trailers) and needs someone he can trust to setup a mini-SHIELD while the big one's going bad. Coulson is just the perfect guy to do it; why else would he have his own mini-team running around when apparently SHIELD can just drop a team of people anywhere, anytime?

Yep, agree with this completely.

As for my new theory on how it was done...

Hey Odin, Nick Fury here, you know that Tesseract you wanted? I'm sending it back to Asgard with your son. Just one little thing I need you to do for me first, though, I just need you to bring my buddy Phil back to life...

That was certainly the vibe I got, anyway...the shot of Coulson looking into space, as though heading to some kind of heaven...or Valhalla... Plus the mention that Fury "Moved Heaven and Earth" and "what he did was ungodly". Yep, my money is on Asgardian Inteference, possibly with some kind of Valkyrie-type character in there somewhere

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by RoboChap
Yep, my money is on Asgardian Inteference, possibly with some kind of Valkyrie-type character in there somewhere

I had my own Valhalla theory back around p. 10 of this thread. :smalltongue:

Also, it did seem that one memory-flash was part of the same rushing-to-Asgard visual sequence that we've seen in the Thor movies. I'd have to do a side-by-side comparison to be sure, but they did look very similar.
.

[RoboChap]

[/SPOILER]

I had my own Valhalla theory back around p. 10 of this thread. :smalltongue:

Also, it did seem that one memory-flash was part of the same rushing-to-Asgard visual sequence that we've seen in the Thor movies. I'd have to do a side-by-side comparison to be sure, but they did look very similar.
.


I was fairly sure someone had but couldn't be bothered searching through all the pages to find it :P And yeah, I had the same thought on the sequence, if not the same then it was at least a very similar style

[Rakaydos]

The problem with valhalla theories is that the bifrost was broken. Coulsen couldnt be taken to asgard because it took most of asgard's power for a 1 way jump for thor alone (I think that was the reasoning?) and the tesseract was needed for the return trip, which Coulsen was not seen during.

[Aotrs Commander]

For the sake of any other UK readers of this thread, Avaris just linked me to the news that Channel 4 will not be showing the show until March.

Because, if I understand their ME3-ending level logic, they're going to avoid having any more breaks in the show schedule... by having a massive long break in the show schedule.

*sigh*

So if we're lucky (if we want to avoid spoilers), the UK portion of the playground might rejoin the thread just about time the rest of you are wrapping up the season...

[Palanan]

Are you able to watch the shows online in the UK? They're posted a solid week after the first air date, but a week's delay is better than three months'.

.

[Cikomyr]

Well, gotta find 2 things:

1- IP Blocker that can route your IP from the US
2- The email address from the US website that would rebroadcast them. If not, try a Canadian IP to get them from the CTV website

[Palanan]

I've never tried watching a video stream from outside the U.S., so no idea how it works. Evidently more complicated than I'd realized.

[Cikomyr]

I've never tried watching a video stream from outside the U.S., so no idea how it works. Evidently more complicated than I'd realized.

Region-lock is your nemesis, my friend

[Hopeless]

Being a resident of the UK (and having read the above comment about Channel 4 making an epic fail...) I can only make assumptions on whats been said but... I can't see Fury doing this to Coulson.

I know people are saying he's important but if Asgard did have a hand in his resurrection why the heck were they operating on him?:smalleek:

I think he was picked up and because he was dead he was assigned for some shady experimentation except he woke up during it!

I can see Fury raising the roof when he found out and I suspect that doctor was called in to try and help Coulson which is why he eventually had that mind implant to repair his shattered psyche.

I hope they reveal Fury had nothing to do with the original experimentation and only got involved when he discovered what was going on and his moving Coulson out of the SHIELD helicarrier and in charge of his own team is part of a much longer game since he's forseen whatever is going to happen during the Cap sequel and is trying to combat SHIELD's darkside which I believe is part and parcel of that shadow council who ordered a nuke fired on New York in the Avengers movie.

Moving heaven and earth?
Perhaps Fury did call in a favour from Asgard but he didn't know Coulson's body was being experimented upon... now imagine he was returned to life and discovered himself on a medical table being experimented upon...

No I still think Fury didn't have anything to do with the experimenting, having the evil side of SHIELD being responsible would work much better for this series wouldn't it?

[TheEmerged]

Okay, so apparently Hulu has moved this to some higher level of service. Joy.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I guess we'll have to wait until a week after or something for Hulu. Or maybe they just made the first half of the first season freely available and are forcing you to join Hulu+ for the rest of the show. :smallannoyed:

I do have Charter cable, which is what's needed to watch it on ABC.com, but my parents are the ones who would know the password. And I'd rather wait a week than like, ask someone for help. :smalltongue:

I am gonna do that Hulu+ free trial at some point so I can do a marathon run of Community...

[HamHam]

I can't see Fury doing this to Coulson.

Really? Because I think Fury is exactly the kind of insane badass who thinks being brought back from the dead is super neat. And all it takes is a couple months of excruciating pain? Please, that ain't no thing for Nick Fury.

And not really considering that other people might not think the same way.

And I pretty much agree with him. Especially since they can just remove the bad memories afterwards. Kind of reminds me of the Worthing Saga by Card, where they had a drug that could put you into suspended animation but it was unbelievably painful, but you wouldn't remember that when you woke up.

Esoteric consideration of existential self aside, I see no downside to this procedure. If anything it proves Coulson was right in the first place, he was better off not knowing.

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

Esoteric consideration of existential self aside, I see no downside to this procedure. If anything it proves Coulson was right in the first place, he was better off not knowing.

how many people take anti depressants, I bet at least a non insignificant amount of those people would take a brain rewrite to make them happier in a moment or two...

Coulson went through hell, and they repressed those memories. Now he has grown stronger and getting back memories of his darkest moments wont make him want to die... I think he owes Fury a THANK YOU

[Flickerdart]

Okay, so apparently Hulu has moved this to some higher level of service. Joy.
Trust the system. :smallamused:

[Asheram]

Dat nightmare fuel.
Seriously, this show is swinging back and fourth between "Kids friendly Marvel show" and "Really freakin' adult stuff" faster than a metronome.
I'm still not sure where they want to go with the show but I think they're missing both demographics.

[Flickerdart]

It occurs to me thatwhat Coulson was told by the doctor could have been untrue. The guy was only called in after what, 6 surgeries? We have no idea what they did to Coulson before he was called in to fix the memory thing, and he might not have been told about it either. How likely is it that there are other things that Fury is hiding? Pretty likely. Coulson was focusing on the Tahiti memory, but it also only conceals the final surgery...

[Cikomyr]

I personally really like how Centipede has been developping as a bad guy so far.

I always wondered why organizations are obsessed with creating super-soldiers with no plan as to how to control them. Centipede's solution was awesome :smallbiggrin:

[LaZodiac]

It occurs to me thatwhat Coulson was told by the doctor could have been untrue. The guy was only called in after what, 6 surgeries? We have no idea what they did to Coulson before he was called in to fix the memory thing, and he might not have been told about it either. How likely is it that there are other things that Fury is hiding? Pretty likely. Coulson was focusing on the Tahiti memory, but it also only conceals the final surgery...

That's all but 100% confirmed to be a thing. Yeah, we know why Tahiti is a thing, but now the mystery is, how did they repair his, quote, "torn apart heats and lungs".

Hell, how did they get torn apart, he got stabbed in the chest once.


I personally really like how Centipede has been developping as a bad guy so far.

I always wondered why organizations are obsessed with creating super-soldiers with no plan as to how to control them. Centipede's solution was awesome :smallbiggrin:

Centipede is a really clever organization and I hope the Clarivoyent is Modok.

[BWR]

That's all but 100% confirmed to be a thing. Yeah, we know why Tahiti is a thing, but now the mystery is, how did they repair his, quote, "torn apart heats and lungs".

Hell, how did they get torn apart, he got stabbed in the chest once.


A stab in the chest can do that, you know.
It's harder to reconcile with the fact that he lived nearly a minute after the stabbing.

[Talya]

A wizard...
Jotun adopted and raised by Asgardians with incredible sorcery and advanced alien technology...
...puny god did it.

[Sith_Happens]

Centipede is a really clever organization and I hope the Clarivoyent is Modok.

Yeah, about all they need is to look up what "money-laundering" is.:smalltongue:

[Hawriel]

Watched the show last night. Over all it handled the characters better. However there were still some head bangingly stupid writing.

Fallow the money. How the **** does the 3rd highest ranking person in SHIELD ignore such an important investigating tool? Not to mention every other SHIELD agent, except our special main cast.

If Skye was to be detained then she should have been guarded. Some one on her team would be inappropriate.

If they wanted Skye to be hobbled by the tech neutralizing bracelet,. then why the hell did it not also work like a common house arrest ankle bracelet?

Flash bang or not, two agents trying to clear a room with punching is just ****ing retarded. They need real weapons.

Again THEY CHARACTERS NEED ACTUAL WEAPONS! They investigate people with super powers. Also what is the point of making a big deal about how super these soldiers are, when you can just defeat them by punching?


A stab in the chest can do that, you know.
It's harder to reconcile with the fact that he lived nearly a minute after the stabbing.

It takes 4-4.5 minutes before the brain suffers damage from lack of oxygen. Even people that have been beheaded will still be "alive" for a minute or more before brain death.

[Palanan]

Well, that was an uneven episode, but it did end on a feel-good note.

The Positive:

Good conversations between Coulson and May, and Coulson and Skye. He turns to May for the sense and solace he can't find anywhere else, and he's the one who offers that to Skye in turn. Even though it was wrapped in a rather flimsy plot, this was a nice way of showing different sides of the man. The interpersonal dynamics are really starting to come together.

As for Fitz and Simmons, they're actually starting to look vaguely like professionals, rather than just walking accents spouting technobabble.

And I really liked the glimpse of Mexico City, or wherever they filmed that was supposed to be Mexico City. One thing the show's done nicely so far is to evoke a sense of international scope. Some scenes and episodes do this better than others (the episode in "Peru" was a little embarrassing) but the scenes of different major cities have been well-done so far.

The Not-Great:

Something of an awkward, unbalanced episode, alternating between a rather lightweight main plot and the latest section of Skye's unspooling backstory.

--And that backstory in particular is really beginning to annoy me. Skye can't just be a gifted hacker with an unsettled past; nooooooo, she has to be an 084 in the flesh, there has to be Tantalizing Mystery and Deep Cosmic Significance to her hidden history. Can't they build a decent character without giving her a hidden history? Can't she be, you know, an interesting person on her own? Evidently not.

As for the main plot itself, ...urf. The academy-mystery episode, with the requisite red herrings and so forth. And the absurd sno-cone hailstones, instead of the rock-hard, layered-ice lumps that make up actual large hail. Not impressive, not at all.

And the Boiler Room. Nice idea, but this is S.H.I.E.L.D., so there's no way the faculty aren't aware of it and don't have it just as monitored as everywhere else.

The Nice Touch:

On the outside of the S.H.I.E.L.D. Academy building, one of the division signs read "Exobiology." I'd pay real money to see what they have in there.

:smalltongue:

The Hilarious:

Lola. She steals every scene she's in.

:smallbiggrin:

[Pex]

The actor who played the "loner" looked very familiar to me. I know I've seen him in something before, but I could not think of it and it was nagging me the entire show. It's always annoying to me when I forget where I know an actor from. (Don't get me started on my Adam Baldwin story.) Anyway, I finally figured it out. The actor played the son in "Awake".

[The New Bruceski]

So with this episode I'm really starting to feel support for the idea that the Clarvoyant is
M.O.D.O.K. He's superintelligent and pulls the "clarvoyant ultra-planner" act a few times in the comics, and Blizzard (our new super from this episode) worked for him. The only point against it that I can think of is that it would be really tough to make him look appropriate to the setting.

As for Skye, if they leave this resolution as an actual open-ended resolution I think it works. They won't though. And the moment they do any more with it I'm gonna go back to hating Skye again. My personal pet theory:
The villagers were willing to die to protect her. The SHIELD team died to protect her. Now she's on the plane and everyone's liking her and treating her special. I think she has a charisma super power that makes people like her, and so has become an actual walking Mary Sue.

[huttj509]

As for Skye, if they leave this resolution as an actual open-ended resolution I think it works. They won't though. And the moment they do any more with it I'm gonna go back to hating Skye again. My personal pet theory:
The villagers were willing to die to protect her. The SHIELD team died to protect her. Now she's on the plane and everyone's liking her and treating her special. I think she has a charisma super power that makes people like her, and so has become an actual walking Mary Sue.



Oh, they track down the clairvoyant, learn he's not psychic, because as they've said repeatedly "psychic's don't exist."

However, they then reveal that Skye is Psychic, and her latent powers were making everyone like her.

It then pans out to the main writer, sitting at his computer, visibly typing away on fanfiction.net.

[Hopeless]

This isn't a spoiler I just wanted to avoid being told off for ignoring the spoilered parts above and then commented on them freely...:smallredface:

So Pheremonal control or pheremones?

Why do i get a Jessica Drew vibe from this?

[dehro]

The Hilarious:

Lola. She steals every scene she's in.

:smallbiggrin:

QFT

also, as soon as they mentioned the Academy I started picturing them all cartoonified, like they did in the Eureka special episode, if you know what I mean.
I half suspected for a moment that that was going to be the tie-in for a future cartoon based on SHIELD Academy.

[Hopeless]

QFT

also, as soon as they mentioned the Academy I started picturing them all cartoonified, like they did in the Eureka special episode, if you know what I mean.
I half suspected for a moment that that was going to be the tie-in for a future cartoon based on SHIELD Academy.

Isn't that precisely what the Ultimate Spiderman series is all about?

Well except training normal SHIELD Agents unless having them cope with a group of superpowered teens counts?:smallamused:

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by The New Bruceski
I think she has a charisma super power that makes people like her....

Maybe, but it clearly doesn't work on TV audiences.

:smallamused:

[LaZodiac]

So that was a pretty great episode. Also they name droped AIM, so I'm pretty sure the Clarivoyent is Modok.

Also, I don't think Skye's power is making everyone like her. I think her power is more along the lines of "encouragement". She's helped Coulson regain some of his faith in humanity, and she's such a good hacker she can "encourage" Shield's systems to open up for her, even if she isn't aware it's her power.

[Cikomyr]

So that was a pretty great episode. Also they name droped AIM, so I'm pretty sure the Clarivoyent is Modok.

Also, I don't think Skye's power is making everyone like her. I think her power is more along the lines of "encouragement". She's helped Coulson regain some of his faith in humanity, and she's such a good hacker she can "encourage" Shield's systems to open up for her, even if she isn't aware it's her power.

So... subtle Suggestion? When she feels threatened, she make other people protect her?

Wait a minute. So it makes sense she managed to calm down the black dude in the Pilot? She is the reason the syrup stabilize?

[Palanan]

I'm sure this is fun, and not to be the wet blanket, but...

Speculations about Skye's "power" are probably going to lead us to the same door that has "COULSON IS AN LMD!!!!" stenciled all over it.

I doubt if Skye has any "power" whatsoever; I have a feeling she's important not for what she is, but who she is and who she's important to.

But yeah, I know, it's fun.

:smalltongue:

[Cikomyr]

I'm sure this is fun, and not to be the wet blanket, but...

Speculations about Skye's "power" are probably going to lead us to the same door that has "COULSON IS AN LMD!!!!" stenciled all over it.

I doubt if Skye has any "power" whatsoever; I have a feeling she's important not for what she is, but who she is and who she's important to.

But yeah, I know, it's fun.

:smalltongue:

It wouldn't make any sense for the Female Agent to have sacrificed herself just because she suspected she was important. She didn't knew what the deal was in the first place.

Also, is it just me, or the idea that "the whole village sacrificed themselves to protect the girl" is ambiguous as to whom they were protected her against?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Cikomyr
It wouldn't make any sense for the Female Agent to have sacrificed herself just because she suspected she was important.

Unless the agent was motivated by simple human decency. We hardly know anything here, and there's no reason to rule out a non-paranormal explanation.

[LaZodiac]

So... subtle Suggestion? When she feels threatened, she make other people protect her?

Wait a minute. So it makes sense she managed to calm down the black dude in the Pilot? She is the reason the syrup stabilize?

Yes, that'd be why, according to my theory. The Night Night Gun probably helped, and could be used to stabilize it as well, but I feel she did most of the initial work.


I'm sure this is fun, and not to be the wet blanket, but...

Speculations about Skye's "power" are probably going to lead us to the same door that has "COULSON IS AN LMD!!!!" stenciled all over it.

I doubt if Skye has any "power" whatsoever; I have a feeling she's important not for what she is, but who she is and who she's important to.

But yeah, I know, it's fun.

:smalltongue:

Nothing says Coulson isn't a LMD. For all we know LMD's might be partially organic cyborgs as opposed to real robots, to make them more...you know, life like. Additionally, the big reveal for that hasn't HAPPENED yet, all we know right now is why he's having visions of Tahiti. We still don't know how he came back to life, if he did at all.


It wouldn't make any sense for the Female Agent to have sacrificed herself just because she suspected she was important. She didn't knew what the deal was in the first place.

Also, is it just me, or the idea that "the whole village sacrificed themselves to protect the girl" is ambiguous as to whom they were protected her against?

I'm almost certain it was phrased that way just so the possibility of the village protecting "the 084" from SHIELD is a possibility.

[dehro]

Unless the agent was motivated by simple human decency. We hardly know anything here, and there's no reason to rule out a non-paranormal explanation.

this.
really, speculations are fun and all, but the notion that any eventual power she might have has gone unnoticed for a quarter of a century when she was monitored for at least half that time by people trained to look for the extraordinary is a bit hard to swallow, at this time. The whole "an entire village and 4-5 agents of SHIELD put their lives up for her" is still a bit shaky, because it really doesn't explain anything much.
Yes, there are some unexplained and phenomenal things going on around her, but really we have very little to go on as of now.
for all we know, her parents may be the ones with powers and she's in danger/a danger because of that, not because of any personal "extra feature".
what does grate a little on my nerves is that they've pulled a (I'm sure there's a trope name for this).. thing.
they had the guy who was the most well-informed on Skye in their hands and they let him jump ship before they could milk him for every information he had. Because I find it hard to believe that he really doesn't have a clue about what's so special about Skye... not after risking his life for it and, I guess, having thought it over for the better part of 20 years.

[Asheram]

Is it just me who finds the irony in that 084 sounds a bit like "Wait for (it)"

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by LaZodiac
Nothing says Coulson isn't a LMD.

...

For me, the theory is pretty well disproven. True, the merest sliver of a possibility remains; but S.H.I.E.L.D. ain't subtle, is all I'm sayin'.


Originally Posted by dehro
...really, speculations are fun and all, but the notion that any eventual power she might have has gone unnoticed for a quarter of a century when she was monitored for at least half that time by people trained to look for the extraordinary is a bit hard to swallow, at this time.

Absolutely, completely and utterly this.


Originally Posted by dehro
Because I find it hard to believe that he really doesn't have a clue about what's so special about Skye... not after risking his life for it and, I guess, having thought it over for the better part of 20 years.

Well, not necessarily, since I don't think he was actually keeping track of her since he dropped her off. He did say he didn't want to know a thing about her, other than whether she was okay.

From what we know, he was part of the second team that went in to rescue the forward group, so he wouldn't have known anything about why she was being protected, or from whom; he only saw the immediate effects on the team leader. I think Coulson's team dropped him off because he really didn't have anything more to tell them, and it was best for everyone if he just disappeared.
.

[BRC]

further thoughts to come after I've eaten, but for now


Is there ever one line of something that just REALLY makes whatever you're watching seem stupid. It's rarely a big line, it usually could be easily replaced.

For Pacific Rim it was "Gipsy's Analogue"

For this episode it was "You need a PhD to get into the door".

SHIELD academy, from the dorm rooms to the students shown, looked to operate like a standard college, if a very very good one that recruits geniuses from around the world. Had you not known this was SHIELD Academy, you could have mistaken it for any generic american college.

Which I could buy. It's not the most improbable thing in the world that SHIELD would have a program for recruiting and training young geniuses right out of high school/college.

But then we're told that this is NOT a college, it's some post-post-graduate program. All these students are supposed to have PhD's. All of these students, none of whom looked older than 25, should have properly been referred to as "Doctor".

I could get Fitz and Simmons being Wunderkinds who graduated freakishly early, but ALL These students?
I would have enjoyed the episode far more had they simply dropped that one line.

[LaZodiac]

further thoughts to come after I've eaten, but for now


Is there ever one line of something that just REALLY makes whatever you're watching seem stupid. It's rarely a big line, it usually could be easily replaced.

For Pacific Rim it was "Gipsy's Analogue"

For this episode it was "You need a PhD to get into the door".

SHIELD academy, from the dorm rooms to the students shown, looked to operate like a standard college, if a very very good one that recruits geniuses from around the world. Had you not known this was SHIELD Academy, you could have mistaken it for any generic american college.

Which I could buy. It's not the most improbable thing in the world that SHIELD would have a program for recruiting and training young geniuses right out of high school/college.

But then we're told that this is NOT a college, it's some post-post-graduate program. All these students are supposed to have PhD's. All of these students, none of whom looked older than 25, should have properly been referred to as "Doctor".

I could get Fitz and Simmons being Wunderkinds who graduated freakishly early, but ALL These students?
I would have enjoyed the episode far more had they simply dropped that one line.

Had they simply

"All you need to get in is the willingness to do good".

I'm pretty sure Fitzsimmons was lying to be impressive.

[Pex]

Simmons could have been joking as part of the rivalry against Ward's Operations Academy.

[Kitten Champion]

Simmons could have been joking as part of the rivalry against Ward's Operations Academy.

That's what I was thinking.

Embellishing for a best of the best-type spiel.

[dehro]

Yah, it was quite clearly that. Also, if it wasn't, consider that if they recruit globally, it's not so improbable to find one campus worth of precocious early graduates/laureates, on a population of 8 billion. But anyway, it was clearly a bit of partisan bragging.

[Daimbert]

I haven't seen the episode yet --- my reception for the channel that runs it has been out for the past few days -- but from reading here my speculation is:

She's the child of at least one god that's now left. Maybe a Greek god, that would allow the introduction of Hercules into the Avengers or Thor. Since as far as I know we don't know who her parents are, and since an entire village was willing to die to protect her, god-worship seems reasonable, and we do know that gods did once and still do walk among the people and, well, they're known for having children.

I do find it interesting and a bit disheartening that even without my theory they've ramped her importance up even more, when a lot of the complaints about the show are that Skye is given too much importance for such a lackluster character.

[dehro]

to be fair, from the very first episodes it was quite clear that Skye was and is pretty much the central character of the show (well.. ok, lola comes first), what with being its quirky outsider/moral compass/deus ex 'puter and occasional Mary Sue.
It's only logical that the mistery surrounding her origins, investigating which incidentally is her only real reason to stick around, should take center stage... and in a world of superheroes and aliens, those origins could never really be trivial or unimportant. For one thing, if they were "mundane" there is no way that SHIELD could not have found them out/tracked them down in a jiffy. Making them extraordinary is the only real option.
Also, consider this: in the last episode it is revealed that Skye is completely normal and her parents were fishmongers from Turniptown in Backofnowhereland, who died in a car crash, the villagers died because reasons.
The more genre-savvy and cynical of us may appreciate it because the anti-climax is a nice slap in the face of the "obvious" big reveal. Those same viewers will find other stuff to complain about.
Most other viewers however will go "wtf? that's it? that's your big reveal? what a letdown" and possibly opt out of watching the next season.
There is literally no way that Whedon could not make a big deal of her parentage and turn it into something major, once he came up with the character of Skye who is interfering with SHIELD because she's looking for her parents.

[Daimbert]

to be fair, from the very first episodes it was quite clear that Skye was and is pretty much the central character of the show (well.. ok, lola comes first), what with being its quirky outsider/moral compass/deus ex 'puter and occasional Mary Sue.

Agreed, but there have indeed been a fair number of comments that due to her character that that's a bad thing for the show, as the character isn't that interesting.


There is literally no way that Whedon could not make a big deal of her parentage and turn it into something major, once he came up with the character of Skye who is interfering with SHIELD because she's looking for her parents.

I agree that after all the build up that it had to be important, but that doesn't mean that it had to be FANTASTICAL, or in such a way that she might overshadow the others in terms of ability. It could have been, for example, personal. She could have, as I suggested before, been May's daughter. Or even Coulson's, without him knowing about it because the mother didn't tell him. Those would have made her secret important, meaningful, and something that directly impacts the team and team dynamic, and if this show is going to fly then it's the team dynamic that's going to be important. Instead, it runs the risk of putting her above the team and breaking her out of the team dynamic, which will suck AND will risk making the show LITERALLY all about a character that the fans probably don't like as much as the writers do.

[BRC]

I think Skye has been finding her place in the show. Yes the fact that she's still around after basically committing treason on multiple occasions (Telling her hackerboyfriend and hacking SHIELD to find out about Fitz and Ward's mission) is stupid, but it makes sense within the logic of comic books, where heroes and villains can swap sides willy-nilly.

I mean, Magneto is an X-Man in the comics right now.

but anyway,I think they've found a place for her. The rest of the cast is divided into easy pairs/dynamics.

Coulson and May are the Veterans
May and Ward are The asskickers
Fitzsimmons are...Fitzsimmons.

Skye kind of, but dosn't really fit into any of those. She's brainy enough to connect with Fitzsimmons, but lacks the academic background to actually understand them, and she's action enough to connect with Ward, (Who, unfortunately, is not the most interesting character). Her Hacker DEM isn't noticeably worse than Fitzsimmon's Science DEM.

She couldn't hold the show on her own, or even as some sort of co-protagonist with Coulson.
In terms of interesting characters it goes
Coulson
Melinda May
Skye
Fitzsimmons
Ward.

Hopefully the show won't pull a Wesley Crusher and make episodes about how special and amazing Skye is.

That said, the revelation that Skye has some sort of superpower increases the chance of wesleyification considerably. Its not guaranteed, but it's very likely.


Heh, here's a theory. She's got some connection/a similar powerset to the Clarivoyant. Her Deus Ex Machina Hacking Skills are actually her powers subconsciously telling her what she needs to do to break the system in question.

Or, she IS the Clarivoyant, and has been the entire time.

[/SPOILER]

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

For this episode it was "You need a PhD to get into the door".

SHIELD academy, from the dorm rooms to the students shown, looked to operate like a standard college, if a very very good one that recruits geniuses from around the world. Had you not known this was SHIELD Academy, you could have mistaken it for any generic american college.

Which I could buy. It's not the most improbable thing in the world that SHIELD would have a program for recruiting and training young geniuses right out of high school/college.

But then we're told that this is NOT a college, it's some post-post-graduate program. All these students are supposed to have PhD's. All of these students, none of whom looked older than 25, should have properly been referred to as "Doctor".

I could get Fitz and Simmons being Wunderkinds who graduated freakishly early, but ALL These students?
I would have enjoyed the episode far more had they simply dropped that one line.


OK I'm not a PHD, nor are any of my friends. I do know the Doctor my brother goes to (MD) looks really young. I have to assume that most PHDs go into college at 18 or 19 go 4 years (so 22-23) then 2 years for a master (24-25) then another 2 years for the PHD (26-27) so having a PHD in your 20's is possible (yea I bet 30's and 40's is more common) but most of those actors were not teens, they were twenty somethings...

Sometimes I think because we have 25 year olds play 16 year olds on TV we forget what they look like.

The girl playing pool I bet was pretty close to my age, and the one who died too....


also in a world with Reed Richards and Tony Stark, maybe 1-2% of the population is a year or two ahead of our world...

[BWR]

Most people I know with doctorates got them a little before 30. My sister got hers at 31 (delayed for various reasons), a couple of my friends got 27, 28 and 33 (MD who did a doctorate later). I think my father got his around 28.
Isaac Asmiov got his at 28 (delayed due to the war, IIRC).

And yes, American TV is terrible at portraying actually young people.

[dehro]

not just american tv... one of my sisters was recruited to play the part of a young teenage girl in a toy advert for TV (a fantastic four toy..she sort of was the invisible woman for a minute there).. and she was 18 at the time.

[datalaughing]

Much easier to hire an 18 year old than an actual young teen. Child labor laws are very stringent with acting. You can only have them come in for so much time in a day, which is why you'll often see children played by twins, because they can use one of the twins for the allowed period and the other one for the allowed period so they can get everything they need.

And you don't have to deal with kids needing to go to school or what-have-you. Like in the show Buffy. Sunnydale High was full of "teens," but most of them were actually college students with open days or other young adults, because they were filming all day for most of the week, and all the actual teens were in school.

[Ronnoc]

OK I'm not a PHD, nor are any of my friends. I do know the Doctor my brother goes to (MD) looks really young. I have to assume that most PHDs go into college at 18 or 19 go 4 years (so 22-23) then 2 years for a master (24-25) then another 2 years for the PHD (26-27) so having a PHD in your 20's is possible (yea I bet 30's and 40's is more common) but most of those actors were not teens, they were twenty somethings...

According to my university the U.S. average for completing a phd is 6 years in grad school. So your looking at most young phds being in their early thirties.

[dehro]

considering that this place probably is full of homeschooled people, and/or people with above average levels of education and intelligence, shaving a few years off here and there is probably not out of the question.

that said, if I remember correctly, Fitzsmmons were prodigies..and the new guy is a genius and 18 years old "the youngest since you guys came here" or something in that vein... which allows us to think that others are more likely to be in the 20-28 age range.

[lt_murgen]

That's what I was thinking.

Embellishing for a best of the best-type spiel.

We know the "Ph.D to get in the door" line was hyperbole. The said they recruited the loner kid right out of highschool.

And as for Skye, well, since it is merely a wild speculation, I don't have to spoiler it. But I will anyway...


The village was protecting the Skye's pregnant mother. A group of aliens attacked, which alerted SHIELD. SKye's mom died defending her 2 (half alien) children. In the chaos, the two got seperated somehow (perhaps different SHIELD members took each child?) The SHIELD agent got Skye away, but Peter was lost, and through a long origin story goes on to become Starlord, leader of the Guardians of the Galxy. Of course, no one knows about Peter since no one other SHIELD agent or villager survived.
The biggest fault is that Skye is not chinese. But no one said they had to be native to the area, just hiding there. The alien and his wife could have made a home in an isolated village to avoid modern technology

[Selrahc]

According to my university the U.S. average for completing a phd is 6 years in grad school. So your looking at most young phds being in their early thirties.

Does the US average matter though? They are both from the UK. The UK has 1 year less average for undergraduate courses(3 years total length), and you can go directly into a 3 year PHD program, so without any "early exams" stuff, you can get one at 24.

[Joran]

The village was protecting the Skye's pregnant mother. A group of aliens attacked, which alerted SHIELD. SKye's mom died defending her 2 (half alien) children. In the chaos, the two got seperated somehow (perhaps different SHIELD members took each child?) The SHIELD agent got Skye away, but Peter was lost, and through a long origin story goes on to become Starlord, leader of the Guardians of the Galxy. Of course, no one knows about Peter since no one other SHIELD agent or villager survived.
The biggest fault is that Skye is not chinese. But no one said they had to be native to the area, just hiding there. The alien and his wife could have made a home in an isolated village to avoid modern technology

The actress playing Skye is half-Chinese; her birth name is Chloe Wang, she can speak fluent Mandarin, and she had a short career as a Chinese pop star. Skye, the character, doesn't have a defined ethnicity yet though.

I have no idea who Star-Lord is. Some people are speculating that the Clairvoyant is MODOK, which would reinforce that clairvoyance actually doesn't exist. The main problem with MODOK is that his canonical look doesn't seem to fit in with the rest of MCU.

[LaZodiac]

The actress playing Skye is half-Chinese; her birth name is Chloe Wang, she can speak fluent Mandarin, and she had a short career as a Chinese pop star. Skye, the character, doesn't have a defined ethnicity yet though.

I have no idea who Star-Lord is. Some people are speculating that the Clairvoyant is MODOK, which would reinforce that clairvoyance actually doesn't exist. The main problem with MODOK is that his canonical look doesn't seem to fit in with the rest of MCU.

Naw, he fits in exactly. Look at Thanos, or any of the aliens in the Thor movies (and those related to Guardians of the Galaxy).

[TheEmerged]

MODOK would constitute wishful thinking for me. One of the first comics* I bought as a child was an early issue of Ms. Marvel (http://www.comiccollectorlive.com/LiveData/Issue.aspx?id=26c1a73c-55a5-4442-ac66-e5f4b6064964) with him on the cover. I've had a soft spot for Ole' Big Head ever since.

*the grocery store I would have bought them at as a child was known to put old comics up for sale so figuring out which of the three it was isn't as simple as checking the publish date.

[Joran]

MODOK would constitute wishful thinking for me. One of the first comics* I bought as a child was an early issue of Ms. Marvel (http://www.comiccollectorlive.com/LiveData/Issue.aspx?id=26c1a73c-55a5-4442-ac66-e5f4b6064964) with him on the cover. I've had a soft spot for Ole' Big Head ever since.

*the grocery store I would have bought them at as a child was known to put old comics up for sale so figuring out which of the three it was isn't as simple as checking the publish date.

The two sites that I read for reviews/speculation about Agents of SHIELD are geeking out over the possibility of the Clairvoyant being MODOK.

Another thing in favor of MODOK being around is AIM being name checked.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I have no idea who Star-Lord is.

Star Lord or Star-Lord or Starlord or whatever is the leader Guardians of the Galaxy, an intergalactic (or at least intersector) team which are slated to appear in the MCU in the movie of the same name.

I was sold on Guardians of the Galaxy the moment I saw Rocket Raccoon and his friend with the minigun. :smalltongue:

[huttj509]

Another thing in favor of MODOK being around is AIM being name checked.

Um, Iron man 3?

And how Extremis is a big part of the Centipede serum?

Might as well say it must be Red Skull "because they mentioned HYDRA."

Now, I'm still leaning towards MODOK, but I don't think mentioning AIM in a lecture about "science gone bad" is name-dropping evidence.

You'd be better to say that name dropping Bucky Barnes on the memorial wall was...ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

[thorgrim29]

So apparently Asgard will be back on Agents of Shield, because Lady Sif is scheduled to make an appearance

[Joran]

Um, Iron man 3?

And how Extremis is a big part of the Centipede serum?


That would require me to have watched Iron Man 3... >.> <.< I thought this was the first mention of AIM in the MCU, oops.



You'd be better to say that name dropping Bucky Barnes on the memorial wall was...ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

That wasn't blatant at all =P I was also very amused that she pointed to the middle of the memorial and not the beginning. Or that she even knew who Bucky was.

[Thrudd]

I would not make any assumptions about what doesn't fit in the MCU, or what sort of things will be in the TV show (apart from no regular appearances by heroes of villains from the movies).
Guardians of the Galaxy is coming up this summer, and who knows what level of tech and cosmic shenanigans will be introduced. Avengers 2 will have Ultron as the villain, so super advanced robotics, cybernetics and AI are not out of the question for Agents SHIELD. Magical/supernatural explanations are not out of the question either, we've already seen Asgardian magic and Scarlet Witch is in Avengers 2.
As far as I'm concerned, anything that exists in the comic universe has potential to be introduced in the cinematic universe (excepting specific characters that are owned by other studios). The Thanos scene at the end of Avengers where they say "to attack Earth is to court death...", and he turns and grins, says to me that the god-like cosmic powers (Death, Eternity, Living Tribunal, et al) are a thing that could be introduced, and probably will be. If we're going to have them, we could see anything.

[Sith_Happens]

Nooooooooooooo, of all people, why did Fitz have to be the one to mix up power and energy units!?:smallfrown:

Ian Quinn really seems to be in the "accidentally creating supervillains" business, doesn't he?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by HardcoreD&Dgirl
I have to assume that most PHDs go into college at 18 or 19 go 4 years (so 22-23) then 2 years for a master (24-25) then another 2 years for the PHD (26-27) so having a PHD in your 20's is possible (yea I bet 30's and 40's is more common)....

Two things here:

First, a Master's isn't a prerequisite for a Ph.D., although it's more common than otherwise. Anyone who's S.H.I.E.L.D-grade brilliant would almost certainly skip the Master's and sail through the Ph.D.

Second, a two-year Ph.D. is possible, but insanely rare. Four if you're lucky; five or six is more common, and often longer for any number of reasons, especially for field research in developing countries.

Also, the length of time required for a Ph.D. depends very much on your field, as well as where you are in time. In the late 1920s, Jimmy Doolittle earned a Master's in Aeronautics in one year and a Ph.D. the next--two degrees in two years. This is partly because aeronautics was a new field at the time; that's pretty much not possible these days. Also because in the earlier 20th century a Ph.D. wasn't the absolute requirement for high-level scientific or academic work that it is today.


Originally Posted by datalaughing
Much easier to hire an 18 year old than an actual young teen. Child labor laws are very stringent with acting.

And this, I believe, is one reason why Carrie Fisher got the part of Princess Leia instead of Jodie Foster, who was a strong contender but a little younger.

[Daimbert]

So, I just did watch the latest episode, and ...

This was one of the best episodes so far. This was the sort of episode that the series needed from the beginning, with overarching plot and character development worked INTO an interesting threat of the week storyline.

I really hate Ward and Skye when they're together on their own. Skye was much better interacting with Simmons, whom I'm really, really starting to like. But, still, the best chemistry and interaction and, in fact, characters, are Coulson and May. Without them, it's not a show worth watching, in my opinion.

[Cikomyr]

I liked everyone's reaction to Ward's idea that Fitz become the genius's friend

[The New Bruceski]

Nooooooooooooo, of all people, why did Fitz have to be the one to mix up power and energy units!?:smallfrown:

Ian Quinn really seems to be in the "accidentally creating supervillains" business, doesn't he?

There was nothing accidental about it, as far as I can figure. Blizzard was the Clairvoyant's goal.

My main reason for that is because we have yet to see anyone manage to truly pull one over on that guy, and if that wasn't the goal then this would have been a complete failure.

[huttj509]

There was nothing accidental about it, as far as I can figure. Blizzard was the Clairvoyant's goal.

My main reason for that is because we have yet to see anyone manage to truly pull one over on that guy, and if that wasn't the goal then this would have been a complete failure.

And maybe Gravton was too. Yup, same guy running the show for this episode and the "skye grabbed a gun" one, went and checked.

[datalaughing]

After this last episode I must, with no humility whatsoever, point back to the post I made after episode 3, when people in the thread were complaining about the show not having a recurring villain or a story arc.


The thing is, it's only episode 3. How would you know if an arc had already started or not? In Firefly Joss built a million things in to the dialogue and background in the first few episodes (Blue Sun logos, etc.) that people would only have realized were part of the bigger story that was being told after a reveal down the line. Even episode 3, Bushwhacked, which seemed to be a standalone story about a reavers and the effect that exposure to them could have on a person, was actually part of the big story that was revealed in Serenity, and was filled with hints, though we didn't know it at the time.

It seems unlikely to me that the Whedon boys have given up on telling a layered, complex overall story. For all we know there's more going on in this episode than meets the eye. Rich guy's story seemed a little thin to me from the get go. "Oh, this super rare element that no one has managed to find before? I just own a lot of mines. That's why I have half a ton of the stuff. And the giant machine that controls it? Well, you drew it on a napkin or something 20 years ago. It was easy to extrapolate from there." Uh-huh, sure. And, of course, he escaped in his helicopter. So there won't be any further interrogation for the moment.

What with him and then the shadowy organization from episode 1 that had access to a whole lot of super power materials, I'd say that they appear to be setting the stage for some deep conspiracy stuff. Just because there hasn't been a mustache twirling guy shoving the bigger agenda in our face yet doesn't mean there's nothing there.

Vindication!

[DigoDragon]

I finally watched the episode from the 7th. It reminded me the show has some pretty lame writers on their staff. :smalltongue:

Good stuff I liked:

The team working together to catch a dude in the opening. Hey, now this is what a team does! I like it!
Skye being a badass hacker, impersonating May, beating up on officer. Where was this a dozen episode ago?!
The team comes to the rescue! Ward improvises taking down his opponent! Skye punched out the flower lady! Huzzah!


The Bad stuff:

Skye caught hacking again and booted off. I know May helped get her booted off the bus so she could go have her badass moment, but why is it only two people ever seem to acknowledge that she's a prodigy hacker?! Why can't SHIELD utilize her from the beginning? This would have saved so much time!
The bus can turn on a dime in the air? Other than showing off CGI effects, it was kind of pointless.
So... the Clairvoyant killed this guy through the cell phone, Huh? Surprised he doesn't call up all his enemies this way.
The car talk between the doctor and Coulson as kind of meh. Yeah, you figure being brought back from the dead after getting killed like that would be real painful. HOW did they bring him back? Not much revealed really by this reveal.
Hey, the dude is not dead! ...wait, why isn't he in SHIELD's care? Wouldn't SHIELD have recovered his body? You know, cause of his tech? Did they just leave his remains? The hell?


It was pretty good overall. Stuffy-shirt SHIELD leader was pointless though. Seemed like she slowed down Coulson's rescue more than anything.

[Flickerdart]

Hey, the dude is not dead! ...wait, why isn't he in SHIELD's care? Wouldn't SHIELD have recovered his body? You know, cause of his tech? Did they just leave his remains? The hell?

Didn't they cover this? They didn't find the body in the wreckage. Centipede probably got to him first.

[Hopeless]

Didn't they cover this? They didn't find the body in the wreckage. Centipede probably got to him first.

Seems a shame that Fitz went to all that trouble to tag Mike and they didn't bother using that to locate him doesn't it?

[LaZodiac]

So... the Clairvoyant killed this guy through the cell phone, Huh? Surprised he doesn't call up all his enemies this way.

I felt it was implied that he either had one of those eyeball things in his eye, and the phone released a signal that caused it to explode, or the phone had like a secret needle of death poison that the Clairvoyant activates on his side.

[The New Bruceski]

I felt it was implied that he either had one of those eyeball things in his eye, and the phone released a signal that caused it to explode, or the phone had like a secret needle of death poison that the Clairvoyant activates on his side.

Re: Clarvoyant phone
the guy died the same way the Centipede soldier did when Ward improvised. I assume a spike injected a lethal dose of night-night gun.

[DigoDragon]

Seems a shame that Fitz went to all that trouble to tag Mike and they didn't bother using that to locate him doesn't it?

Re: No Body
Yeah, a real shame.

But really, other than missing a leg, how did SHIELD not find the body? Didn't they send a clean-up crew to sift through the wreckage? Even if he burned to death, there should be bones around, but he was mostly intact! So at best SHIELD only found a leg and stopped there? No questions on why so few bones?



I felt it was implied that he either had one of those eyeball things in his eye, and the phone released a signal that caused it to explode, or the phone had like a secret needle of death poison that the Clairvoyant activates on his side.

Re: Phone
A secret needle would explain the phone sticking to the side of his face for a moment. Giving him an eye-piece would have been more consistent, but I could buy the needle-phone if it was one the Clairvoyant gave him for direct calls.

[theNater]

Re: No Body
Yeah, a real shame.

But really, other than missing a leg, how did SHIELD not find the body? Didn't they send a clean-up crew to sift through the wreckage? Even if he burned to death, there should be bones around, but he was mostly intact! So at best SHIELD only found a leg and stopped there? No questions on why so few bones?
Re: Re: No Body
There was a comment to the effect that they found a body, which they believed to be Peterson's. Presumably Centipede got there first and left a different corpse in his place.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Okay, so Hulu is just keeping new episodes on Hulu+ for a week before the next one. So now I saw last week's.

Yeah... the doctor said that Coulson was intentionally kept conscious for the seventh operation. He didn't wake up unexpectedly.

Also, if Mike doesn't get a cybernetic leg, I will be disappoint. :smalltongue:

[DigoDragon]

Re: Re: No Body
There was a comment to the effect that they found a body, which they believed to be Peterson's. Presumably Centipede got there first and left a different corpse in his place.

Re: No Body
Which would mean that after the baddies flew the scene, the team left the scene as well. Thus giving time for the baddies to come back before the SHIELD clean-up crew arrived...

...my faith in SHIELD is dropping. :smallconfused:


Just saw the newest episode
Not a bad one. Decent I suppose, at least it was straightforward in that we have agents investigating some weird tech at one of their own schools. I didn't feel Skye's tears, nor understand why a storm can cause such shaking in a building, but I can't think of anything else that stuck out as odd with this one.

[huttj509]

[QUOTE=DigoDragon;16825716]Re: No Body
Which would mean that after the baddies flew the scene, the team left the scene as well. Thus giving time for the baddies to come back before the SHIELD clean-up crew arrived...

...my faith in SHIELD is dropping. :smallconfused:

Or there's agents inside S.H.I.E.L.D.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Also, if Mike doesn't get a cybernetic leg, I will be disappoint.

A cybernetic leg..with a kneecap made of the chitauri metal that looked bronze/goldenish

[Illieas]

I felt it was implied that he either had one of those eyeball things in his eye, and the phone released a signal that caused it to explode, or the phone had like a secret needle of death poison that the Clairvoyant activates on his side.

speculation is it is an improved version of iron man 1 neural thing that disabled stark before the final battle

[LaZodiac]

speculation is it is an improved version of iron man 1 neural thing that disabled stark before the final battle

Oh wow that's exactly what it is.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Oh that is..frightening, cause Stane did not let that secret out to the black market..he kept it for himself.

[LaZodiac]

Oh that is..frightening, cause Stane did not let that secret out to the black market..he kept it for himself.

Well, the Clarovoyent knows everything. Except why Coulson is alive.

[Sith_Happens]

A cybernetic leg..with a kneecap made of the chitauri metal that looked bronze/goldenish

But if they do that, only Steve Rogers's chin will be able to stop him!:smalleek:

[Hopeless]

I don't know if this has been mentioned but E4 are showing episode of Agents of Shield at 4pm on Sunday right before the Tomorrow People.

Yesterday's episode was apparently Eye Spy if that helps.

[theNater]

Re: No Body
Which would mean that after the baddies flew the scene, the team left the scene as well. Thus giving time for the baddies to come back before the SHIELD clean-up crew arrived...

...my faith in SHIELD is dropping. :smallconfused:
The baddies knew about the bomb, and knew Peterson pretty well. It's plausible they had a team standing by to make the switch on the suspicion that things would go this way.

[Hopeless]

The baddies knew about the bomb, and knew Peterson pretty well. It's plausible they had a team standing by to make the switch on the suspicion that things would go this way.

No thats why I mentioned about Fitz tagging Mike, he should have had his tracker up and running so would know exactly where Mike was.
That they might have some SHIELD Agents in their pay would make more sense but still... why didn't Coulson's team use that tracker?

He was as far as they knew still alive but badly burnt (he was) but to just seemingly pull out without even checking... thats a poor bit of writing there.

[DigoDragon]

Well, the Clarovoyent knows everything. Except why Coulson is alive.

Yeah, interesting that he doesn't know that, but so much of everything else.
I wonder if he's a SHIELD agent himself.



The baddies knew about the bomb, and knew Peterson pretty well. It's plausible they had a team standing by to make the switch on the suspicion that things would go this way.

Re: No Body
A weak plausible idea to me, but I suppose they may have thought of capturing two-for-one.

[lt_murgen]

My guess for the Clairavoyant is that we will see a return of the Character of Samuel Sterns from The Incredible Hulk. When last seen, he had been bashed around by the Abomination and had some of Bruce Banners cloned blood dripping into a cut on his forehead, making it expand.

That would make the Clairavoyant really the Leader in disguise. But it fits perfectly in his motivations and methodologies.

[BRC]

[QUOTE=DigoDragon;16825716]Re: No Body
Which would mean that after the baddies flew the scene, the team left the scene as well. Thus giving time for the baddies to come back before the SHIELD clean-up crew arrived...

...my faith in SHIELD is dropping. :smallconfused:

Or there's agents inside S.H.I.E.L.D.


Eh, Team Coulson does a lot of running around on their lonesome, even in situations where they could easily bring along a few commandos, or just throw around their fancy credentials to get police backup.

as for getting Peterson's body, they must have had a team in place. If Team Coulson found the body, then handed it off to SHIELD, THEN it vanished, they would know Centipede had people in SHIELD, which it almost certainly does. But that would probably have been mentioned.

They were meeting on a bridge IIRC, so that makes it more probable that they could lose the body. Only Team Coulson was there, and none of them brough diving gear. If he fell into the water and Centipede was ready to fish him out, that would work.

[Asheram]

My guess for the Clairavoyant is that we will see a return of the Character of Samuel Sterns from The Incredible Hulk. When last seen, he had been bashed around by the Abomination and had some of Bruce Banners cloned blood dripping into a cut on his forehead, making it expand.

That would make the Clairavoyant really the Leader in disguise. But it fits perfectly in his motivations and methodologies.

I always thought we'd see that fellow as M.O.D.O.K in a future movie, or if not M.O.D.O.K then something similar.

[Nadevoc]

No thats why I mentioned about Fitz tagging Mike, he should have had his tracker up and running so would know exactly where Mike was.
That they might have some SHIELD Agents in their pay would make more sense but still... why didn't Coulson's team use that tracker?

He was as far as they knew still alive but badly burnt (he was) but to just seemingly pull out without even checking... thats a poor bit of writing there.

Wasn't the tracker some chemicals rubbed onto him? In which case they likely would have burned off

[datalaughing]

I always thought we'd see that fellow as M.O.D.O.K in a future movie, or if not M.O.D.O.K then something similar.

It wouldn't make any sense for him to be MODOK. Samuel Sterns is The Leader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leader_(comics)), long-time Hulk baddie. Honestly, I'd be a bit surprised if we ever saw MODOK in anything like the form he takes in the comics. It's just too freaky.

Really, I hadn't considered it before, but the Leader would be a good choice for the Clairvoyant. He's a very manipulate things from behind the scenes sort of guy. That wiki article even says, "His ability to predict probable outcomes of tactical and strategic scenarios is so advanced that it borders on clairvoyance."

[Lizard Lord]

It wouldn't make any sense for him to be MODOK. Samuel Sterns is The Leader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leader_(comics)), long-time Hulk baddie. Honestly, I'd be a bit surprised if we ever saw MODOK in anything like the form he takes in the comics. It's just too freaky.

Really, I hadn't considered it before, but the Leader would be a good choice for the Clairvoyant. He's a very manipulate things from behind the scenes sort of guy. That wiki article even says, "His ability to predict probable outcomes of tactical and strategic scenarios is so advanced that it borders on clairvoyance."

The leader has psychic abilities right? He may have been lying low after the Hulk movie so it might make sense that Shield still thinks psychics aren't real. Really, its been stated so often that psychics aren't real that it is only a matter of time for one to show up and surprise the Shield team.

[Hopeless]

Has anyone mentioned about the Agents of Shield podcasts?

[lt_murgen]

That wiki article even says, "His ability to predict probable outcomes of tactical and strategic scenarios is so advanced that it borders on clairvoyance."

Exactly. That is why I think the Leader will be the Clairavoyant. Now, that doesn't mean there couldn't be a MODOK; I just think the Leader is a better choice for the Clairvoyant than MODOK.

[Hopeless]

Exactly. That is why I think the Leader will be the Clairavoyant. Now, that doesn't mean there couldn't be a MODOK; I just think the Leader is a better choice for the Clairvoyant than MODOK.

It would be easier to pull off but leaves the obvious question about why he has so much problems with Coulson?

Now if that process Coulson went through gave him a natural mind shield MODOK can't penetrate it still leaves the question if it is the Leader why he finds Coulson important?

Does he know there's more to why Fury had him saved than he knows?

Or maybe he was responsible for the experimentation that somehow reanimated Coulson and Fury interrupted it thereby allowing Coulson's mind to be saved from whatever fate the Leader or the Clairvoyant had planned?

I don't believe Fury was behind the original surgery on Coulson I think when he found out what was going on he intervened and the doctor Coulson spoke to wasn't aware of the full details... no matter how special people may think Coulson is I can't see Fury doing that to anyone even if people hope it reveals Coulson is Captain Marvel or whatever.

[Asheram]

It would be easier to pull off but leaves the obvious question about why he has so much problems with Coulson?

I don't think it's so much that Coulson was saved as to How he was saved. I think we're overlooking how much a Big Thing it is to resurrect someone from the dead.

[Hopeless]

I don't think it's so much that Coulson was saved as to How he was saved. I think we're overlooking how much a Big Thing it is to resurrect someone from the dead.

A funny thought occurred to me, the weapon that killed him is supposed to have a gem at its end that is essentially part of the tesseract right?

Now at the end of the Avengers movie they used that staff and its gem tip to close the portal... now what if when Coulson was impaled instead of dying he was caught by that infinity stone since if Loki could use it to simulate the Mind Stone what if it acted like the Soul Gem and kept Coulson from moving on...

Still keeps coming back to his wound closing and reanimating because when they shut the portal it also reversed the damage he was inflicted with but that doesn't explain why he was supposed to have been dead for days unless if my idea is right he wasn't and that excuse was how the people experimenting on him gave to hide what they were doing.

So him losing the will to live wasn't because of a supposed series of operations to resurrect him it was done to hide the fact they didn't know how he came back and used the pretence of him being dead to investigate why he came back to life and that may be that's why the Clairvoyant is interested.

[Sith_Happens]

I think we're overlooking how much a Big Thing it is to resurrect someone from the dead.

Well, it this is based on superhero comics.:smalltongue:

[Calemyr]

A funny thought occurred to me, the weapon that killed him is supposed to have a gem at its end that is essentially part of the tesseract right?

Now at the end of the Avengers movie they used that staff and its gem tip to close the portal... now what if when Coulson was impaled instead of dying he was caught by that infinity stone since if Loki could use it to simulate the Mind Stone what if it acted like the Soul Gem and kept Coulson from moving on...

Still keeps coming back to his wound closing and reanimating because when they shut the portal it also reversed the damage he was inflicted with but that doesn't explain why he was supposed to have been dead for days unless if my idea is right he wasn't and that excuse was how the people experimenting on him gave to hide what they were doing.

So him losing the will to live wasn't because of a supposed series of operations to resurrect him it was done to hide the fact they didn't know how he came back and used the pretence of him being dead to investigate why he came back to life and that may be that's why the Clairvoyant is interested.

I'm inclined to think it's exactly what the Doctor (Ron Glass) says.
Even if you could reanimate a body and even get the brain functional again, the nervous system would have already deteriorated. Have you ever had your foot go to sleep? That weird numb-yet-nasty pain? Imagine that, but your whole body, for days on end with no relief. That would break a man. Horribly. I can see why they went with the "magical place" delusion.

Coulson's importance to Fury is hard to overstate just by him being there, much less the air bus, the blank check team, and a rescue op that must have rivaled a war.

[Cikomyr]

Well, it this is based on superhero comics.:smalltongue:

Yes. But we already are writing off the more outlanding stuff out of the MCU because it wouldn't fit the theme and style of the setting.

Resurrection should also qualify, no?

[BRC]

Yes. But we already are writing off the more outlanding stuff out of the MCU because it wouldn't fit the theme and style of the setting.

Resurrection should also qualify, no?
Yes, but from the audience standpoint here is how it went.

Avengers: COULSON DIED!

Agents of Shield announced: I guess he's back...or is he!
Agents of Shield (First few minutes): Oh, Coulson's back. I guess he never died.
Agents of Shield (After the first few minutes: Oh, I guess he did die.
Ten episodes of unsubtle foreshadowing: Yeah, Coulson totally died, and was brought back with some horrible procedure.
THE BIG REVEAL (After a monthlong hiatus): COULSON TOTALLY DIED! HE WAS BROUGHT BACK WITH SOME HORRIBLE PROCEDURE! WHAT A TWIIISSSTTTTTT


If the show had ever bothered to try to convince us that Tahiti was the truth, that Coulson survived the Avengers and was just healed up, then it might have more of an impact.

The same if they had immediately started exploring the fallout.

Right now, all that's happened is that Coulson learned what the Audience probably guess at during the first episode, and there have been a few scenes where he has indicated that he may be a little upset about it.

[Asheram]

Yes, but from the audience standpoint here is how it went.

Avengers: COULSON DIED!

Agents of Shield announced: I guess he's back...or is he!
Agents of Shield (First few minutes): Oh, Coulson's back. I guess he never died.
Agents of Shield (After the first few minutes: Oh, I guess he did die.
Ten episodes of unsubtle foreshadowing: Yeah, Coulson totally died, and was brought back with some horrible procedure.
THE BIG REVEAL (After a monthlong hiatus): COULSON TOTALLY DIED! HE WAS BROUGHT BACK WITH SOME HORRIBLE PROCEDURE! WHAT A TWIIISSSTTTTTT


If the show had ever bothered to try to convince us that Tahiti was the truth, that Coulson survived the Avengers and was just healed up, then it might have more of an impact.

The same if they had immediately started exploring the fallout.

Right now, all that's happened is that Coulson learned what the Audience probably guess at during the first episode, and there have been a few scenes where he has indicated that he may be a little upset about it.

Did I miss some steps in the conversation here? I thought we were discussing possibilities to why Coulson was so important to the Clairvoyant, not the complete miss they did in the reveal confirmation that Coulson had actually died.

[ryuplaneswalker]

does it even count as a reveal if they don't hide it?

We knew Coulson died, we knew he was revived, the mystery is/was the specifics of how and why.

[Flickerdart]

Ew. Watched the Episode 13 preview and not only is it pushed back to the 4th but we're getting out obligatory Stan Lee cameo.

[Asheram]

we're getting out obligatory Stan Lee cameo.
Yeah, I saw that too. I'm starting to believe that the people involved with this series might be just too fanboyish to actually keep secrets from the viewers. If they're doing a cameo they shouldn't announce it 2 goddamn weeks ahead.

[dehro]

Yeah, I saw that too. I'm starting to believe that the people involved with this series might be just too fanboyish to actually keep secrets from the viewers. If they're doing a cameo they shouldn't announce it 2 goddamn weeks ahead.

I'd be more surprised if anyone was surprised about it... so what's the point in hiding it?

[DigoDragon]

It would be easier to pull off but leaves the obvious question about why he has so much problems with Coulson?

In some stories, mind-readers have problems getting information out of people who's thoughts have been deliberately blocked/suppressed. Perhaps that's why Coulson is so hard to read?



We knew Coulson died, we knew he was revived, the mystery is/was the specifics of how and why.

I agree. What we saw was apprently procedure #7. The juicy details are somewhere among #1-6. Why so much work for one guy?

I also personally was hoping that Fury made some kind of "deal with the devil" to get Coulson back instead of cracy cutting-edge science.

[Hawriel]

In some stories, mind-readers have problems getting information out of people who's thoughts have been deliberately blocked/suppressed. Perhaps that's why Coulson is so hard to read?


Well the machine was rewiring his brain. It could be that what ever the machine did to him changed his brain enough that a mind reader could no longer sense and or read it.


edit belated spoiler tag.

[Daimbert]

I'd be more surprised if anyone was surprised about it... so what's the point in hiding it?

Plus, announcing it and playing it up might get people to check it out for the novelty, and so help buttress its falling ratings.

[Asheram]

I'd be more surprised if anyone was surprised about it... so what's the point in hiding it?

Because a cameo is supposed to be a fun surprise. Taking a 3 week break while announcing that Stan Lee is going to show up is just... I don't even...
This is ruining it.

[LaZodiac]

Who's Deathlok?

Also who's Lorelei?

I ask because this. (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/01/23/deathlok-headed-for-marvels-agents-of-shield/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

[Daimbert]

Who's Deathlok?

Also who's Lorelei?

I ask because this. (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/01/23/deathlok-headed-for-marvels-agents-of-shield/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

Deathlok: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deathlok

Which is the one I'd clearly heard of before.

Lorelei: http://marvel.com/universe/Lorelei_%28Asgardian%29

[huttj509]

Who's Deathlok?

Also who's Lorelei?

I ask because this. (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/01/23/deathlok-headed-for-marvels-agents-of-shield/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

Deathlok is "don't look this up until after the episode, since if you don't already know who it is it could be considered a spoiler." ...I wish I hadn't googled it, I much prefer the post episode "ooh, that seemed like someone significant, who was that guy?" As opposed to pre-episode "This student's gonna get ice powers, isn't he?"

Lorelei is an Asgardian who uses magic to seduce men, and has apparently been used by Loki and others to attempt to distract Thor.

Edit: She bears no connection to current MCU characters unless they're going for a major reveal on Portman's character from the Thor movies.

[Anderlith]

Any bets that Peterson is probably the new Deathlok?

[LaZodiac]

Any bets that Peterson is probably the new Deathlok?

They literally said he is so...

[lt_murgen]

Yes, but from the audience standpoint here is how it went.

Avengers: COULSON DIED!

Agents of Shield announced: I guess he's back...or is he!
Agents of Shield (First few minutes): Oh, Coulson's back. I guess he never died.
Agents of Shield (After the first few minutes: Oh, I guess he did die.
Ten episodes of unsubtle foreshadowing: Yeah, Coulson totally died, and was brought back with some horrible procedure.


You are assuming that the tearful reveal the doctor gave Coulson was the truth. This is SHIELD we are dealing with. It is entirely possible that he was sent to Coulson to reveal another set of false memories to allay his suspicions of the truth.

[Hopeless]

Just had another thought...:smallsigh: what if The Leader specifically chose Coulson's body to experiment upon because he was a friend of Fury?

Imagine Fury's reaction that the latest Gamma irradiated mess has managed to resuscitate Phil Coulson and apparently spent god knows how many days torturing him in the so-called name of science until Fury finds out?!!:smalleek:

Now that would be quite the twist!

[dehro]

I'm still not convinced that Fury wasn't in on it from the get go.

[Mauve Shirt]

God dammit AoS, every episode is vaguely disappointing.
So now
Skye (whose name is synonymous with this smiley face :smallsigh:) has super powers?

[Hawriel]

Guy at work told me that Peters is going to be Deathlok. So I did a search about AoS.

Yep, according to E online He will be Deathlok on Feb. 4ths episode.

Also Luke Cage will get a netflix show.

http://www.eonline.com/news/503101/deathlok-is-coming-to-marvel-s-agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-find-out-who-he-is

[Joran]

Hawriel, can you spoil that? That episode hasn't been shown yet and a lot of people avoid outside information to avoid spoilers like that.


God dammit AoS, every episode is vaguely disappointing.
So now
Skye (whose name is synonymous with this smiley face :smallsigh:) has super powers?


Not necessarily. She's an 084, which is an object of unknown origin. The two examples given so far are a Tesseract powered Hydra weapon and Thor's hammer.

Also, foreshadowing earlier on: Coulson said "Object of unknown origin, kind of like you." to Skye, when explaining what an 084 was.

P.S. It does reinforce that she's special (tm) which is irritating. Skye's my least favorite character in the show, despite Chloe Bennett seeming to be a pretty cool person.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Hawriel, can you spoil that? That episode hasn't been shown yet and a lot of people avoid outside information to avoid spoilers like that.




Not necessarily. She's an 084, which is an object of unknown origin. The two examples given so far are a Tesseract powered Hydra weapon and Thor's hammer.

Also, foreshadowing earlier on: Coulson said "Object of unknown origin, kind of like you." to Skye, when explaining what an 084 was.

P.S. It does reinforce that she's special (tm) which is irritating. Skye my least favorite character in the show, despite Chloe Bennett seeming to be a pretty cool person.


Well we gotta have the special snowflake character to set her apart from all the rest of the flat stereotypes, and we gotta make her right about SHIELD being The Man MCevilguys despite just introducing SHIELD as the good guys one movie ago.