How important is a high casting stat for a Cleric at level 1?

[Larkas]

I'm building a Cleric for an upcoming game, and due to flavor reasons, I'm quite MAD. It's a 28 point buy. The other stats are pretty much set, but I'm torn between 14 Con 14 Wis (modified to 16) and 10 Con 16 Wis (modified to 18). All my stat increases will go to Wis, and by the time I reach 9th level spells, I'll have the required Wis even if I start with a 14 (modified to 16) on that stat.

I can understand the usefulness of a very high Int for a Wizard, since it sets the DCs higher. But how important is a high starting Wis for a Cleric?

[Yuki Akuma]

A 16 counts as a "high" starting ability score anyway. You don't need an 18.

[137beth]

Depends on how much casting you want to do.


First, I should probably ask: is your group handling cantrips like PF (i.e., you prepare X per day, and can cast them as many times as you want), or like 3.5?

If the former, you will run out of spells very quickly without a high wisdom. If the latter, as long as you can conserve 1st-2nd level spells, you can manage with a moderate wisdom.

Of course, if you are planning on doing a lot of turning/channeling/melee, 16 wisdom will be plenty high. 14 con is more important for melee by a long shot.

[eggynack]

Well, wisdom sets the DC's on cleric stuff too, but I'd still go with the 14/14 version. 10 is just an unsafe amount of constitution to be running around with, especially at low levels. At worst, you're losing three bonus spells, and that's only in a few situations. Most of the time, it's limited to one or two. Just make sure that you bump wisdom as much as you can, and you should be fine.

[molten_dragon]

I'm building a Cleric for an upcoming game, and due to flavor reasons, I'm quite MAD. It's a 28 point buy. The other stats are pretty much set, but I'm torn between 14 Con 14 Wis (modified to 16) and 10 Con 16 Wis (modified to 18). All my stat increases will go to Wis, and by the time I reach 9th level spells, I'll have the required Wis even if I start with a 14 (modified to 16) on that stat.

I can understand the usefulness of a very high Int for a Wizard, since it sets the DCs higher. But how important is a high starting Wis for a Cleric?

A 16 should be plenty. A 2-point difference in your starting WIS will mean having 1 or 2 fewer spells per day at level 20, and 1 point lower save DC. And clerics don't use as many spells that have a saving throw as Wizards anyway.

[Invader]

Well, wisdom sets the DC's on cleric stuff too, but I'd still go with the 14/14 version. 10 is just an unsafe amount of constitution to be running around with, especially at low levels. At worst, you're losing three bonus spells, and that's only in a few situations. Most of the time, it's limited to one or two. Just make sure that you bump wisdom as much as you can, and you should be fine.

I agree with this. Wis isn't as important at low levels and can easily be made up as you level.

[eggynack]

Actually, let's look at this on a level by level basis. With a 16 wisdom, you'll have a full allotment of bonus spells until level seven. At that point, it only takes a +2 periapt of wisdom, consuming 4,000 of your 19,000 GP wealth by level at seventh, to get the bonus spell from 18 wisdom. At level eight, you hit 20 wisdom, which keeps you on par with bonus spells for ninth level. You also get a bonus first level spell, but that's largely irrelevant. Anyway, the next barrier is at level 11, when you have two less than the 22 wisdom needed for an extra 6th level spell. Fortunately, an extra +2 on your periapt costs 12,000 GP, which is pretty trivial by that point. You get an extra point at level 12, which leaves you one behind at level 13. Unfortunately, this is the first periapt boost that is taking up more than a fourth of your wealth by level, and it might be a bit expensive to just get. Moreover, you only get your next stat boost at level 16, which puts you a point behind at level 15. It's all rather tragic, but also distant.

Ultimately, I conclude that 16 wisdom will keep you on par with the highest level bonus spells for long enough that having 18 is unimportant. You miss out on a low level spell occasionally, but that's basically trivial.

[Larkas]

Alright! I think I'll go with 14 14 then. Thanks a lot for the input, guys!

[Psyren]

Note that Clerics do have some decent spells with saves too - not as many as a Wizard but they're there. For example, 1st-level has Command, Sanctuary, and Cause Fear, while second level gives you Calm Emotions, Hold Person, and Sound Burst, plus whatever you get from your domain(s). If your Wis is low you have other options but the choice shouldn't be made lightly.