[3.5] Need help building an Avenger.

[Blazerunner08]

Hello everyone I'm in a bit of pinch.

Me and my friends finished a campaign that originally started in 4th edition but then transitioned to 3.5. I was playing an Avenger when we transitioned I multi-classed into a Cleric/Paladin/Rouge/Assassin but that didn't pan out so well. we knocked off the cleric levels and left everything else.

At the end of the campaign I felt like I was not up to par with the rest of the party. My DM (who I've known for a while) retooled my character to be a Rouge/Shadow Dancer/Assassin but the character did not feel right.

So I find myself back to where I started thus is my dilemma.

Race: Human

Alignment: Neutral/Chaotic Good

Main weapon of choice: Rapier

Thanks for the help.

[pilvento]

do you want to cast divine spells or just be the "sacred order assassin" sort of character?

Do you want to go pally and focus in CHA or focus in INT for a more skillfull duelist kinda of set

[Blazerunner08]

Yes I do need to cast divine spells that do divine damage but I also need to do that with melee attacks without solely relying on the Holy weapon enhancement.

And a Yes for the duelist set.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Hmm... I'd advise talking to your DM and tweaking the Shadowbane Stalker (CAdv) or Shadowspy (the Complete Champion Pelor-one) to fit your needs. Both progress divine casting and roguish skills, to a certain degree.

[Dusk Eclipse]

A Ruby Knight Vindicator with Swordsage (it can be done people!) entry can also work and has the Avenger fluff right out of the box, though depending on your God you might need to refluff a bit.

Swordsage levels give Wis to AC (Avengers don't wear armour IIRC) and the Diamond mind maneuvers work really well for duelist-type characters, Desert Wind could be refluffed to holy fire or what have you.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

What sources do you have access to, and what level is the character?

[gorfnab]

Slayer of Domiel from Book of Exalted Deeds might be worth looking into. Otherwise Rogue/Cleric into Divine Trickster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9623145#post9623145) (created by Rich Burlew, the Giant himself) might work if your DM allows some homebrew.
Pathfinder's Inquisitor might work, if your DM will allow it to be ported over to 3.5.

[ArcturusV]

I'd feel silly and stupidly obvious for suggesting this... but seems no one else has:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a

Go with a Rogue Entry or if you want to be slightly more "magical" to fit the 4th Edition Avenger chassis a bit more in your base class... I think I might suggest the Ninja class from Complete Adventurer. It's worse than the rogue in most ways. But you're unarmored and get some "okay" powers like Invisibility limited times per day and ghost stepping which fits with some of the Avenger's Oath powers in a vague thematic feel.

[pilvento]

Ask for divine trickster like gorfnab said.

I asked those questions for you to pick, not to chose em all :smalltongue:

[herrhauptmann]

Why not black flame zealot (complete divine)?
Requires 3 levels in cleric for 2nd level divine spells.

[DeAnno]

A refluffed Suel Arcanamach maybe? The Avenger's main thing is accuracy, and that gets you a lot of Wraithstrike without giving up your melee roots. Alternately for something stronger you could go Sorcadin, but that is perhaps too castery for what you're trying to do.

Pure Swordsage could also fit pretty well, if Tome of Battle is in play. To recreate the caster pursuing feel of the Avenger, maybe even check out the Mage Slayer line of feats.

[IronFist]

PF Inquisitor coud work.

[Fouredged Sword]

Human Rogue 1 / cleric 1 / Rogue 3 / Chameleon 10 / PRC Paladin 5 would do it for me. Focus on the divine and take stealth or martial focus as your second focus when it becomes available.

[PurpleSocks]

There really aren't that many good PRC for Rogue's, talk to your DM and ask if he will allow this

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9623145&postcount=7

If he does then go

Cloistered Cleric3/Rogue3/Divine TricksterX

[Blazerunner08]

What sources do you have access to, and what level is the character?

The level of the character is 27 and what do you mean by sources?

[Blazerunner08]

Why not black flame zealot (complete divine)?
Requires 3 levels in cleric for 2nd level divine spells.

I did consider this but they need exotic weapon proficiency kukri as a requirement and the character use a rapier so it seemed like a waste of a feat slot.

[Dusk Eclipse]

By sources he mean what books do you have access to. Are you converting the character levels directly? Because as a rule of thumb 3.5 has a higher overall power level, while 27 is "epic"tier in both games some if the stuff you can do at this level in 3e is completely ridiculous (specially if you use epic spells creation as written).

[Darrin]

I did consider this but they need exotic weapon proficiency kukri as a requirement and the character use a rapier so it seemed like a waste of a feat slot.

Kukris are martial weapons (looks like a 3.0/3.5 update error). However... Rogue/Shadowdancer/Assassin isn't proficient with kukris, so still a moot point.

[Blazerunner08]

By sources he mean what books do you have access to. Are you converting the character levels directly? Because as a rule of thumb 3.5 has a higher overall power level, while 27 is "epic"tier in both games some if the stuff you can do at this level in 3e is completely ridiculous (specially if you use epic spells creation as written).

I have access to most of the books.

But as I said in my original post I was not feeling the "epicness" of being a level 22 character, I had an AC of 26 and HP of 170 and I did a possible max of 273. The last fight were in I was getting railroaded every other turn. All i could do was site there and be a target.

[Blazerunner08]

There really aren't that many good PRC for Rogue's, talk to your DM and ask if he will allow this

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9623145&postcount=7

If he does then go

Cloistered Cleric3/Rogue3/Divine TricksterX

What book is this class in?

[Pluto!]

That's a homebrew from the guy who runs this site.

[herrhauptmann]

I did consider this but they need exotic weapon proficiency kukri as a requirement and the character use a rapier so it seemed like a waste of a feat slot.

A dip in most full bab classes would get proficiency with a kukri. Taking warblade for 1 level at say 7, is a great dip. Martial maneuvers are amazingly good. Swordsage would be better for flavor, especially with shadowhand, but I don't remember which weapons the swordsage gets.
There's nothing in the PrC which says your abilities can only be performed with a kukri either, so nothing stopping you from using your rapier.

[juicycaboose]

What book is this class in?


That's a homebrew from the guy who runs this site.

If it helps in convincing a dm, the author of the divine trickster also co-authored Dungeonscape

[Blazerunner08]

Hmm... I'd advise talking to your DM and tweaking the Shadowbane Stalker (CAdv) or Shadowspy (the Complete Champion Pelor-one) to fit your needs. Both progress divine casting and roguish skills, to a certain degree.

Sorry it's been a while and have not replied back.

i went with the Shadowspy build for my second retooling and it works so well. Thanks for the advice.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

How about Ardent in Complete Psionic? It's a Wis-based class that uses divine-themed Psionic powers. With that you can go something like Spellthief 1/ Ardent 4/ Psychic Assassin (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d) 6+, and maybe finish with Sanctified Mind and/or a psionic variant of Abjurant Champion or Ordained Champion.

Be sure to use Substitute Powers (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a) for Ardent, and you can use Greater Psionic Weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#greaterPsionicWeapon) with a Deep Crystal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/specialMaterials.htm) weapon for a big opening hit. Psychic Assassin allows you to get Mind Cripple, which deals 2 Int damage on a sneak attack, so if you dual-wield (or make offhand attacks with unarmed strikes) you can disable many beefy opponents in a single full attack.