[PF] Teach Me How to Occultist

[ArcanistSupreme]

I recently stumbled upon this beautiful class (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/radiance-house/occultist), and it has become my latest favorite class of the week. I immediately began scouring the web for handbooks, guides, builds, advice, tips, anything! And I found...bubkiss.

So I turn to the playground for help; what can you do with this class? What are some cool/fun combos, and how would you build an occultist, especially for low-level play?

[Gemini476]

I recently stumbled upon this beautiful class (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/radiance-house/occultist), and it has become my latest favorite class of the week. I immediately began scouring the web for handbooks, guides, builds, advice, tips, anything! And I found...bubkiss.

So I turn to the playground for help; what can you do with this class? What are some cool/fun combos, and how would you build an occultist, especially for low-level play?

I'm not that familiar with the Occultist, but do you know how similar it is to the Binder? If it's similar enough, you could probably take a look at some old Binder handbooks and see what the general,non-vestige-specific advice is.
It's a third-party class based on a semi-obscure 3.5 class published by a company that isn't Dreamscarred Press. It shouldn't be that surprising that there isn't a handbook, to be honest.

[Gorfnod]

Last I heard Psyren was working on a handbook. I haven't seen him put anything on the playground yet but I'm sure he will be along shortly with some advice.

[Psyren]

Last I heard Psyren was working on a handbook. I haven't seen him put anything on the playground yet but I'm sure he will be along shortly with some advice.

That I am! It's not nearly ready yet for the public eye (hissssssss) but I can give you tips if you like.

First tip - don't bother with Constellation Aspects :smalltongue:

[Vortenger]

I'd made a thread similarly about 3 months ago. Psyren: I'd taken away that you were thinking of writing a handbook, didn't know you actually were. Thank you.

To OP: Are you playing 3.P or pure PF? If ToM is in, improved binding and their version of expel vestige are your go-to feats. If not...well, there is no equivalent to IB, and their expel leaves you hurting for a bit.

It looks like the vestigial companion, though a ton of paperwork to track, is a mandatory piece of the class in terms of utility (as in, you should use it every day). The extra set of actions is worth its weight in gold, and only you can have a familiar today, an animal companion tomorrow, and (my favorite) a full blown eidolon (albeit with half the evolution points) eventually. If it dies, oops. You make a new one tomorrow.

The spirits are too varied to go into without a guide, and like the binder you probably want to choose an area of specialization. Charisma seems a bit more necessary with the occultist versus the binder. Overall I'd say the class rates as high tier 3/low tier 2 in PF, and solidly tier 2 with 3.5 thrown in.

(Still drinking my first cup of coffee, pardon the prolix fashion)

[Psyren]

The companion also shares your minor powers - which can be really handy with some vestiges spirits. For example, Tyrant Cromwell gives you greatsword, lance and garotte proficiency - he makes you a good frontliner, so you'll probably want the first two for yourself, but the nuglub gremlin companion he gives you is extremely sneaky and can make violent use of the latter.

[ArcanistSupreme]

It's a third-party class based on a semi-obscure 3.5 class published by a company that isn't Dreamscarred Press. It shouldn't be that surprising that there isn't a handbook, to be honest.

Hey, now, hey now. It received plenty of "that's really cool!"s and "hooray, PF binder!"s, it's just that there is nothing more of substance out there.


Last I heard Psyren was working on a handbook. I haven't seen him put anything on the playground yet but I'm sure he will be along shortly with some advice.


That I am! It's not nearly ready yet for the public eye (hissssssss)

If it helps motivate you in any capacity, I'd love to see a guide for this class.


To OP: Are you playing 3.P or pure PF? If ToM is in, improved binding and their version of expel vestige are your go-to feats. If not...well, there is no equivalent to IB, and their expel leaves you hurting for a bit.

It looks like the vestigial companion, though a ton of paperwork to track, is a mandatory piece of the class in terms of utility (as in, you should use it every day). The extra set of actions is worth its weight in gold, and only you can have a familiar today, an animal companion tomorrow, and (my favorite) a full blown eidolon (albeit with half the evolution points) eventually. If it dies, oops. You make a new one tomorrow.

The spirits are too varied to go into without a guide, and like the binder you probably want to choose an area of specialization. Charisma seems a bit more necessary with the occultist versus the binder. Overall I'd say the class rates as high tier 3/low tier 2 in PF, and solidly tier 2 with 3.5 thrown in.

3.5 would probably be allowed, but my group prefers PFSRD material only. And the companion being necessary rather than a neat option is kind of a turn-off for me. Especially since it forces you to give up the good ability a lot of the time! Oh well. And that's why I am seeking advice; there are so many options that I don't know where to start.


The companion also shares your minor powers - which can be really handy with some vestiges spirits. For example, Tyrant Cromwell gives you greatsword, lance and garotte proficiency - he makes you a good frontliner, so you'll probably want the first two for yourself, but the nuglub gremlin companion he gives you is extremely sneaky and can make violent use of the latter.

MOAR ADVICE, PLZ. Seriously though, stuff like this might actually change my mind about the companion.

[Gorfnod]

Some infomation stolen from some other threads (stolen from Psyren) that I was involved in...



Anyway, Cromwell is a pretty nasty customer. His major ability is merely decent - a temporary strength bonus that might as well be untyped - but his other abilities are the real kicker. A fast-scaling AC bonus (up to +7 touch pre-epic), he makes your alignment undetectable by magic, free Greatsword/Lance/Garotte proficiency and he gives you Power Attack+Vital Strike free of charge.

His familiar is nice too. In PF pact magic, each vestige (well, most of them anyway) let you give up one of their abilities in exchange for a familiar, animal companion or some other creature that you can command as though you had the respective class feature. In Cromwell's case, you can give up the two feats above for a nuglub gremlin, who goes on to share your huge AC buff, ability to power up your strength, undetectable alignment and the three weapon proficiencies above. Nuglubs have a huge stealth mod (+14) so if you give them the garotte, you can ruin someone's day at the back of the battlefield without wasting any of your own actions. They also get at-will prestidigitation and 1/hour snares, which are permanent until triggered.



Oh, absolutely. Take a look at General Hessant, Tyrant Cromwell, Fey Baraddu and Arturius as primary melee vestiges; for secondary ones, Loh'moi and Dark Blood are great choices. For a healer, it's hard to beat Ubro, and for general utility very little can stand up to Muse Istago.



Muse Istago is insane - free at-will Simulacrum as a standard action anyone? And Hessant basically gives you Phantasmal Killer at 1st-level targeting Ref instead of Will.


Just some thoughts to get the ideas rolling.

[Psyren]

Okay, minor preview:

Do note that, to get your playgroup's feet wet in the system, you can simply play another class with one of the Occult archetypes instead. They get full EBL, and their binding stat is changed to their primary stat (for example, Soul Weaver Wizards bind and set DCs with Int, and Empyreal Friar Monks bind and set DCs with Wis.) The Occultist's main advantage is that it's the only class in the system that can bind more than one vestige spirit at a time, and it's also the only one to get both Pact Augmentations and Binder Secrets (though the other archetypes get some unique goodies of their own.) So that is something to consider if the spirits are your primary interest but you want to ensure you can contribute effectively to the group by playing something more familiar.

Alternatively, you can consider multiclassing. Pact Magic in Pathfinder is similar to ToB - half your levels in non-binding classes increase your EBL. So don't be afraid to splash a bit for a gish Occultist or theurge build - it won't hurt you as much, especially if you're leaning toward spirits with no-save powers.

With that said, let's say you've settled on straight Occultist. Here's some general advice:

1) Flexible Pactmaking: This should probably be your first feat; there aren't a lot of great choices at low level (Combat-wise, Hessant is probably your best bet) and with this feat you can basically guarantee a good pact AND a capstone empowerment as long as you agree to host him longer than 24 hours. But try to get a feel for what kind of campaign it will be before you pick this one up - will each session be a day? Multiple sessions/day? Multiple days/session?

2) As I said above, starting out you will probably want General Hessant as your main spirit - he is really very good no matter whether you go for a Cha-heavy caster-Occultist build or more of a gish. His major ability can take somebody nasty out of a fight instantly, much like a Witch's Slumber hex; it does take a follow-up hit to render an enemy helpless but it's not mind-affecting either. (I consider it to be like Phantasmal Killer, only the saves are Reflex/Fort and it's not mind-affecting. You can also dedicate your actions to dazing another target with his Dazing Strike - note this doesn't say melee attack, so it can be done at range, and since it does damage you're not wasting your actions. His vestige companion (a horse) can use the dazing strike too, so you and your horse can run around dazelocking two foes while your major keeps the third one under wraps - that should get you through just about any low-level fight. His influence can get you in trouble if you're good-aligned though, so make sure that if you need to take prisoners, that somebody else handles the final opponent.

As for the other 1st-level spirits:

- Aza'zati is weak and his nasty influence will seriously strain your relationship with most parties. He also has the highest binding DC of the level 1 choices, so avoiding the influence is going to be really tough. I wouldn't even bother with him personally. His acid cone has good range, but the damage starts off mediocre and only gets worse as you level.

- Cave Mother also has a weak major, but she can be great in survival campaigns. Otherwise she should be skipped too.

- Sevnoir is the second best choice - still not nearly as good as Hess, but AoE fear + life-leech on feared targets + blur can help make you a decent frontliner, especially if you have some racial proficiencies or a fighter/paladin dip to shore up your combat skills.

For more you'll probably have to wait for my guide but let me know if you have any questions :smalltongue:

[ArcanistSupreme]

That's a pretty darn decent starting point. My main question was what the possible roles of the class were and how I should build; there are just so many possible options and combinations that I'm struggling to see what feats I should plan on and so forth.

[stack]

...
2) As I said above, starting out you will probably want General Hessant as your main spirit - he is really very good no matter whether you go for a Cha-heavy caster-Occultist build or more of a gish. His major ability can take somebody nasty out of a fight instantly, much like a Witch's Slumber hex; it does take a follow-up hit to render an enemy helpless but it's not mind-affecting either. (I consider it to be like Phantasmal Killer, only the saves are Reflex/Fort and it's not mind-affecting. You can also dedicate your actions to dazing another target with his Dazing Strike - note this doesn't say melee attack, so it can be done at range, and since it does damage you're not wasting your actions. His vestige companion (a horse) can use the dazing strike too, so you and your horse can run around dazelocking two foes while your major keeps the third one under wraps - that should get you through just about any low-level fight. His influence can get you in trouble if you're good-aligned though, so make sure that if you need to take prisoners, that somebody else handles the final opponent.
...


"A vestigial companion that would gain share spells immediately exchanges that ability for the feature, share granted abilities."

"A cavalier’s mount does not gain the share spells special ability."

"You gain the service of a horse animal companion for the duration of the pact. Treat your binder level as your cavalier level to determine your mount's abilities. This granted ability replaces call longsword."

I don't think you get a daze-locking horse.

[Psyren]

Huh, good point; I saw "animal companion" but not "cavalier." Oh well, that does downgrade Hessant's horse a bit, I'll have to revise that part.

[stack]

Not often I get to correct Psyren.:smallbiggrin: Good day.