The Smart Fighter

[Dr. Azkur]

What ways can you think of that a fighter not only benefits from a high INT but is even built around it (having it as the main or maybe second highest stat)? What race, feats and dips would you take? Is it possible at all for such a character not to completely suck?

Show me your magic!

-knowledge devotion comes to mind-

[gooddragon1]

What ways can you think of that a fighter not only benefits from a high INT but is even built around it (having it as the main or maybe second highest stat)? What race, feats and dips would you take? Is it possible at all for such a character not to completely suck?

Show me your magic!

-knowledge devotion comes to mind-

One thing comes to mind immediately:
Swashbuckler int to damage. TWF and get full int to damage (STR is usually only half on off hand). Or get a little extra damage on each swing by going thf and two handing a spiked chain with high strength and some extra from int to damage.

EDIT: X stat to Y bonus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732)

[SciChronic]

As you stated, a Cloistered Cleric dip to get Knowledge Devotion +2 other Devotions

[Dr. Azkur]

One thing comes to mind immediately:
Swashbuckler int to damage. TWF and get full int to damage (STR is usually only half on off hand). Or get a little extra damage on each swing by going thf and two handing a spiked chain with high strength and some extra from int to damage.

Of course!!


EDIT: X stat to Y bonus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732)

Wow. Just wow.

[Metahuman1]

Play a warblade heavy on Iron Heart And with a little Diamond Mind and Stone dragon.

[Gwendol]

Combat expertise, and related feats.

[rockdeworld]

Factotum was the first thing I thought of. Of course, if you mean straight Fighter 20, then there's not much, which is sad when you think about all the awesome mangas with smart fighters that D&D 3.5 is almost totally incapable of recreating (even with ToB).

[Diovid]

Go with something like Swashbuckler 3 / Factotum 8 / Warblade 9, enjoy adding your int mod to everything.

Take it even further by using the feats Knowledge Devotion, Keen Intellect and Insightful Reflexes.

[Emperor Tippy]

Gray Elf Rogue 1/ Factotum 8/ Martial Monk 2/ Swashbuckler 3/ Swordsage 6

would probably be what I would use for Int based melee.

[Eldariel]

Warblade/Eternal Blade works pretty well. Swashbuckler-dip optional but Factotum would only work in Gestalt.

[Story]

Go Artificer, Incantrix, Anima Mage, etc. Persist a bunch of spells. Pretend to be a Fighter.

DMM Clerics do it better, but int based casters can be fighters too if they want to.

[Zombulian]

Gray Elf Rogue 1/ Factotum 8/ Martial Monk 2/ Swashbuckler 3/ Swordsage 6

would probably be what I would use for Int based melee.

Why Rogue? Just for Craven?

Also I might suggest Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 17. You get almost full BAB, Full SA, Int to Damage, and whatever nifty things that Swashbuckler gives at those high levels.

Edit: Of course this includes an Elven Fullblade for two-handed PA'ing with Weapon Finesse, as well as Craven and Knowledge Devotion.

[Zaq]

Cross-class ranks in Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering)?

[(Un)Inspired]

I would skip the rogue levels but stick with factotum and warblade. Take three levels of swashbuckler for the int to damage then take a level of iaijutsu master to let you add that int to damage with a katana and add your int to your ac.

Then take a level of monk with kung fu genius or carmendine monk to ad you int to ac again.

Take knowledge devotion like people have been saying and spend all those skill points from your high int on knowledge skill to add to your attack and damage

Then hypnotize your dm into letting you take faerie mysteries initiate to use your int for hp instead of your con

This gets you:
int to ac twice
int to damage twice
int to saves
int to hp each level
int to reflex
int to attack
huge bonus to attack and damage based on your knowledge skill rolls

[Emperor Tippy]

Why Rogue? Just for Craven?
Craven, extra sneak attack, extra skill points, but mostly just because.

Possibly dip a level of Warblade late instead, but 7 levels of Swordsage is mostly pointless as 7th level maneuvers are gotten either way.

[DR27]

"Fighter" - I'm gonna assume that you mean fighter-type, because Roy doesn't really work that well.

Without anything fancy, just kinda being generic - Warblade "fits" the intelligent archetype. Factorum adds to that, but isn't really a fighting-type. Since intelligence is what you are looking for, I feel like Combat Expertise chains are probably the way to go.

Knowledge Devotion would be nice, but Warblade only gets History and Local - you've got to go cross-class for the rest to cover all your foes, and therefore want to go for max ranks in Arcana, Dungeoneering, Local, Nature, Religion, and Planes. You'll get Local as a part of your initial setup, and another when you take Knowledge Devotion at level 3. Lets say INT 16 to start, so you get 8 skill points/level if you are human. It can work, but you still need to keep Concentration and Jump maximized for Tiger Claw/Diamond Mind, and probably want synergy ranks in Balance/Tumble, as well as some Diplomacy/Intimidate. This means that you probably have max ranks for identifying humanoids and can get some good bonuses vs. them, but don't always get bonuses vs. the rest.

I could see feats going like this:
1st: Combat Expertise, Dodge
3rd: Knowledge Devotion
5th(B): Ironheart Aura
6th: Riposte or Karmic Strike
9th: Stormguard Warrior
9th(B): Combat Reflexes
12th: Robilar's Gambit
13th(B): Blind-Fight
15th: Mobility
17th(B): Improved Initiative
18th: Elusive Target

Focus on Ironheart/Diamond Mind/Tiger Claw for maneuvers, that's where you are getting your damage, not Power Attack/Charging like a normal fighting-type. You are "smart" by getting AoOs, avoiding getting hit, and charging up Stormguard Warrior while you do it. Knowledge Devotion is in there because "archetype" - even though it functions best on Duskblades. I'm not 100% on why any enemy would choose to attack you though, they probably won't hit, late in the game their power attack is negated, and it just allows you to counter with a big Stormguard hit.

The feats can be switched around, maybe improved combat expertise deserves to be in there or Elusive Target would be nice earlier - I don't know. But this is what I would imagine for a "smart fighter." Dips could happen at basically any point after 9th to get int to various things, but I feel like the Warblade's various "Battle X" things do the job well enough - as an example, at 7th level you are getting int to damage on flat-footed opponents, and Tiger Claw makes opponents flat-footed all the time. It's a concept, one that could be optimized with a zillion dips into various roguish classes - but Figher/Warrior classes? This is probably the way to go.

[SciChronic]

i think my favorite melee fighter would be Factotum 8/ Warblade 12 for Iaijutsu Focus attacks followed by Cunning Surge Maneuvers, only real feat you need is FoI 3-4 times to maintain enough inspiration to surge every round

[DR27]

i think my favorite melee fighter would be Factotum 8/ Warblade 12 for Iaijutsu Focus attacks followed by Cunning Surge Maneuvers, only real feat you need is FoI 3-4 times to maintain enough inspiration to surge every roundFont of Inspiration is about as unimaginative as you can get. What about people who don't want to pay the huge opportunity cost in order basically break the game via action economy manipulation? The idea was to create your idea of a smart fighter, not metagaming a way to break the game and calling it "smart."

It's weird, because I love factorum and ToB for full action economy utilization. "As the Ogre strikes, I activate Wall of Blades and knock his attack out of the way!" is super satisfying - normal fighters move and hit something on their turn, then stand around with nothing to do, but I get to do cool things not on my turn because I'm a Martial Adept. Cunning Surge is supposed to be this dire, "All is lost, I'm just out of reach - but through great effort I pull through" - once/twice per encounter, burning a lot of inspiration points. When you start manipulating those two class features beyond what was intended? Suddenly you are the only one at the table having fun while everybody else is just waiting for your hour long turn to end.

[Rubik]

The smartest thing a fighter can do is to avoid taking more levels in fighter, unless he's ACFing the heck out of himself.

[edit] Oh, and unless you're focusing entirely on donuts, avoid factorum, because it's stupid. Factotum is the intelligent choice.