[PF] Mythic Adventures as PF Epic progression?

[Stux]

So Mythic Adventures is in the SRD now. I've given it a quick read through, and overall I am a little disappointed.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the concept of it, the feats, paths, and spells are all pretty cool. But the implementation feels really weak. It is basically relegated to a book full of presents a DM can hand out if they feel like it.

Maybe I'm missing something, if so please let me know :)

It particularly feels a bit wasted when the rules in there seem so close to being a 'fixed' epic level system. All you'd have to do is say at level 20 you stop gaining class levels, and instead go in to a Mythic Path as if it were an epic prestige class, gaining tiers using extrapolated XP thresholds rather than with trials. You don't gain any more BAB, caster levels, saves and so on, just abilities and feats related to your Mythic Path.

So basically 2 topics for this thread:

How is everyone feeling about Mythic Adventures in terms of actually using it as RAW?

Would using a tweaked version as epic progression work/be a good idea?

[Craft (Cheese)]

The mythic rules are designed with the assumption that the PCs start gaining mythic tiers (if they gain any at all) early in their careers: Thus the starting abilities are for the most part quite weak and not very epic-feeling at all. That's not to say it couldn't work well, it would just feel very different for folks who are coming in expecting a "fixed" version of the epic rules.

I'd argue that "E20" works better: Progression continues past 20th level using the same rules as E6.


Anyway my opinion of the mythic rules is that they're junk. They accomplish nothing that you couldn't already do within the previous rules, they just add on a bunch of additional complications for no benefit.

[Keneth]

Mythic content is like a box of candy for a game master. I don't really feel like it provides enough options for players though, and it further drives a wedge between mundanes and casters. That is not to say there isn't plenty of cool stuff there, but overall they could have done a much better job, and I'm surprised at how little they decided to do even after getting a ridiculous amount of feedback. Not that I expected a much better outcome.

As far as epic progression is concerned... no, not really. There's nothing stopping you from using the rules for epic progression, but they don't really cut it imho.

[3WhiteFox3]

Mythic content is like a box of candy for a game master. I don't really feel like it provides enough options for players though, and it further drives a wedge between mundanes and casters. That is not to say there isn't plenty of cool stuff there, but overall they could have done a much better job, and I'm surprised at how little they decided to do even after getting a ridiculous amount of feedback. Not that I expected a much better outcome.

As far as epic progression is concerned... no, not really. There's nothing stopping you from using the rules for epic progression, but they don't really cut it imho.

The basic problem is that it really feels like the designers weren't confident to really try pushing the envelope with the abilities. Many of them feel very similar to each other.

For example, most of the feats can be summed up as 'gain 1/2 your tier to something related to an actual feat + a minor ability if you spend Mythic Power'. The problem is that it just doesn't feel like a +1 bonus to CMB and CMD (1/2 of 1 Mythic Tier is always 1) for sundering and the ability to make attacks of opportunity against sunder attacks from non-mythic characters is all that worthwhile for a regular feat, nevermind a supposedly Mythic one that is even less plentiful than regular feats.

It would have been nice to gain some really awesome abilities that really showed how to be an epic character. Also, many of the best abilities are actually found in your tier 1 path ability. Casters can get what is essentially a quickened spell that's not prepared or known cast without costing a spell slot and is 2 levels higher at the cost of a use of Mythic Power. And while the mundanes don't get nearly as much, what they do get is pretty nice. Move and make a single attack as a swift. Make an attack that you can roll twice on and take the better roll. Make an attack, and the foe is automatically flat-footed, etc... That's all pretty good, but most of the other uses of mythic power are mediocre at best.

I do have this to say in it's defense, many of the ideas found throughout the book are excellent, and it does make you want to play in a game that's mythic. The writers obviously had a sincere love of classical storytelling, the Monomyth, fables and mythological characters. As said before, a lot of the Mythic stuff for the GM is quite excellent. The art is also gorgeous and some of my favorite in the game.

Overall, it's disappointing because it was obviously wanting to be really, really cool and a massive departure from normal PF games. Sadly in reality, it's a decent way to give characters a bit more power at low levels, and you've got a few tricks you can pull with it. I would like to try a game where each class gets a Mythic Tier equal to 2 minus it's JaronK's balance tier.

[The Random NPC]

I would like to try a game where each class gets a Mythic Tier equal to 2 minus it's JaronK's balance tier.

Wouldn't that mean only Tier 1 casters get a Mythic Tier? And Tier 3 gets negative Mythic Tiers? If you don't like melee, just say so!:smallfurious:

[Psyren]

Maybe he meant "It's tier minus 2" for mythic rank? Thus T3 would be mythic 1, T4 would be mythic 2 etc.

[3WhiteFox3]

Maybe he meant "It's tier minus 2" for mythic rank? Thus T3 would be mythic 1, T4 would be mythic 2 etc.

Oops.

:smallredface:

Yes, that's what I meant.

The idea is that the lower in tier you are, the more mythic you get. I was posting in a rush.

Also, I should specify that the minimum Mythic Tier is 0.

[Stux]

Mythic content is like a box of candy for a game master.

Yeah that is exactly my feeling.

I just feel like the development of a character should really be in the hands of the player, but Mythic Tiers is something you can't build a character around because their acquisition is just when the DM feels like it.

[3WhiteFox3]

Yeah that is exactly my feeling.

I just feel like the development of a character should really be in the hands of the player, but Mythic Tiers is something you can't build a character around because their acquisition is just when the DM feels like it.

Yeah, the playtest at least let the minor trials be set things that players could at least work towards, but they got complaints from the Paizo forums to they changed it so be completely in the GM's control. Now, I can kinda see that some might have a problem with being able to metagame the trials or that some were pathetically easy to accomplish. As they were written, you could just spend time trying to force a trial to be completed, and that's not exactly within the genre conventions of what Mythic tiers are trying to accomplish.

But now I feel that the trials are kind of pointless and the GM might as well say; you gain a mythic tier when I say so. You don't even get to know if something is a trial or not unless the GM decides to grace you with that information. The thing about epic mythic fantasy is that generally the epic mythic challenges are obvious and the hero knows that he has to do something incredible to prove his heroism.

[Stux]

I can see it having applications in very specific campaigns. Collecting a series of magical MacGuffins that grant great ancient power in the form of Mythic tiers...

Ah, its such a squandered opportunity!