Gestalt build advice

[Asteron]

A player in an upcoming gestalt campaign and is looking at a Factotum. He doesn't want to go with wizard or Psion because he doesn't want to be too focused. I don't know what he wants other than that. He's floated Paladin//Factotum and Ranger//Factotum. Any ideas on what to suggest?

Assume that LA and RHD don't matter. We are starting at level 1.

Edit:
The party consists of:
Duskblade//Archivist
Barbarian//Swordsage
Targeteer//Sorcerer (probably going Arcane Archer and Order of the Bow Initiate)

The Duskblade//Archivist and I will be trading DM responsibilities. When he leaves, I will have a Paladin//Cleric w/ Dynamic Priest.

We are also using mostly Pathfinder base classes, skills, and feat progression. Pretty much a 3.P game.

[Fax Celestis]

Incarnate//Factotum is pretty awesome, I hear.

He could also try Psychic Rogue//Factotum.

[thethird]

Warblade is also good with factotum.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A Factotum//Gish build would work, though the specifics of the build would really depend on whether you're using fractional BAB, or if going Wizard 2// Swashbuckler 1/ Factotum 1 would give you the +1 BAB from Wizard at 2nd level.

Use this Wizard variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard) from UA to get a Fighter bonus feat in place of Scribe Scroll and the Wizard bonus feats every five class levels. Either specialize in Conjuration and get Abrupt Jaunt, or use (Gray/Fire) Elf with the Elf Generalist 1 and 3 substitution levels and a Hummingbird familiar (Thrush stats, +4 initiative, Elf Wizard 3 doubles the bonus to +8).

Use Wizard X// Swashbuckler 3/ Factotum Y (not necessarily in that order) until you qualify for a prestige class like Spellsword, Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327), or Abjurant Champion. Take PrestigeClass//Factotum on the levels that the prestige class advances spellcasting, PrestigeClass//Wizard on the levels that it does not advance spellcasting (Spellsword's even-numbered levels, or Swiftblade 1, 4, 7, and 10). That way you can get full Wizard casting, near full BAB (or full BAB if not using fractional), and the character will be capable of performing well in any role or task he chooses.

Take Exotic Weapon Proficiency or maybe Improved Weapon Familiarity for a Spiked Chain or an Elven Courtblade, so he can Power Attack two-handed and still benefit from Swashbuckler's Int bonus to damage.

[Asteron]

Warblade is also good with factotum.

I think he wants to avoid ToB... He feels it gets used too often.


A Factotum//Gish build would work, though the specifics of the build would really depend on whether you're using fractional BAB, or if going Wizard 2// Swashbuckler 1/ Factotum 1 would give you the +1 BAB from Wizard at 2nd level.

Use this Wizard variant from UA to get a Fighter bonus feat in place of Scribe Scroll and the Wizard bonus feats every five class levels. Either specialize in Conjuration and get Abrupt Jaunt, or use (Gray/Fire) Elf with the Elf Generalist 1 and 3 substitution levels and a Hummingbird familiar (Thrush stats, +4 initiative, Elf Wizard 3 doubles the bonus to +8).

Use Wizard X// Swashbuckler 3/ Factotum Y (not necessarily in that order) until you qualify for a prestige class like Spellsword, Swiftblade, or Abjurant Champion. Take PrestigeClass//Factotum on the levels that the prestige class advances spellcasting, PrestigeClass//Wizard on the levels that it does not advance spellcasting (Spellsword's even-numbered levels, or Swiftblade 1, 4, 7, and 10). That way you can get full Wizard casting, near full BAB (or full BAB if not using fractional), and the character will be capable of performing well in any role or task he chooses.

Take Exotic Weapon Proficiency or maybe Improved Weapon Familiarity for a Spiked Chain or an Elven Courtblade, so he can Power Attack two-handed and still benefit from Swashbuckler's Int bonus to damage.

That could be interesting, but I don't know that he would go for it. He doesn't want to be too INT focused.


Incarnate//Factotum is pretty awesome, I hear.

He could also try Psychic Rogue//Factotum.

We've never done anything with Incarnum (I have thumbed through the book, but haven't used anything from it.) Psychic Rogue may have too similar of a chasis to be used.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

That could be interesting, but I don't know that he would go for it. He doesn't want to be too INT focused.

The good thing about going with a Wizard Gish build, he can use Polymorph to get astronomical Str/Dex/Con scores. Factotum already adds his Int bonus to just about everything, so make that your highest stat and get Int-based casting to use spells to fix any areas you're weak in.

[Asteron]

The good thing about going with a Wizard Gish build, he can use Polymorph to get astronomical Str/Dex/Con scores. Factotum already adds his Int bonus to just about everything, so make that your highest stat and get Int-based casting to use spells to fix any areas you're weak in.

I see the potential, but he doesn't neccesarily care about optimization. He'll find an idea he likes and optimize it (and do it well!), but he doesn't usually pick the stongest build for the sake of being strong. I did suggest that gish idea though.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Maybe go Factotum//Psion/Psychic Assassin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d), though I'd take another Psion level with each odd-numbered Psychic Assassin level. If he doesn't want to be evil aligned maybe remove the Death Attack class feature and waive the alignment and special prerequisites, and just call it a Psychic Agent. Use the Mind Cripple ability with TWF, and most physically strong opponents can be taken down in a single full attack regardless of how much/little HP damage he deals.

[Essence_of_War]

Duskblade combined with Factotum could be VERY scary.

Just about everything that has an active thing they want to do, works well with factotum.

Both the Warlock and the Dragonfire Adept might like what a factotum brings to the table also.

[visigani]

Factotum/Barbarian (use the UA variant that exchanges rage for favored enemies, and combat style-archery.

[Asteron]

Good sugestions all, except for a few things I neglected to mention:

1) We already have a Duskblade//Archivist.

2) We also have a Barbarian Swordsage.

I'll go back and edit my first post to include party content.

[visigani]

Factotum/Shadowcaster
Factotum/Binder
Factotum/Swasbuckler

[gorfnab]

Factotum // Artificer

[Icewraith]

Factotum/Wildshape ranger.

I think therefore I am a dire bear.

[visigani]

At this point we're just listing every other class and adding factotum to it. They didn't really need us for this.

[Asteron]

Probably not. I was really fishing for some choices that weren't quite obvious like Wizard//Factotum...

[Fax Celestis]

Factotum//Spellthief is actually rather interesting, and Factotum//Monk if you take Kung Fu Genius is terrifically fun. Bonus points if you go Factotum 20//Swashbuckler 3/Monk 17: Int to basically everything.

[gorfnab]

Bonus points if you go Factotum 20//Swashbuckler 3/Monk 17: Int to basically everything.
Factotum with my "duelist" build (see spoiler) could be very interesting. It would also get Int to almost everything.

Human or Strongheart Halfling
1. Cobra Strike (UA) Decisive Strike (PHBII) Monk - Carmendine Monk, Combat Expertise, B: Dodge
2. Cobra Strike (UA) Monk - B: Mobility
3. Swashbuckler - Deadly Defense, B: Weapon Finesse
4. Swashbuckler
5. Swashbuckler
6. Thief Acrobat - Combat Reflexes
7. Thief Acrobat
8. Thief Acrobat
9. Thief Acrobat - Einhander
10. Thief Acrobat
11. Warblade
12. Warblade or Duelist - Ironheart Aura
13. Duelist
14. Duelist
15. Duelist - Robilar's Gambit
16. Duelist
17. Duelist
18. Duelist - Stormgaurd Warrior
19. Duelist
20. Duelist

Levels 10 through 12 can be rearranged depending on your needs. The current setup gives you Improved Evasion and Uncanny Dodge at these levels. However if you don't need Improved Evasion take one less level of Thief Acrobat and move the first level of Warblade to level 10. If you don't need Uncanny Dodge don't take the 2nd level of Warblade and instead go into Duelist a level early. If you don't need either abilities take Warblade at level 10 and enter Duelist at level 11.

If flaws are available pick up EWP: Broadblade Shortsword (pre-errata version if possible) or Versatile Unarmed Strike and Snap Kick (may need to rearrange later feats). If traits are available pick up Cautious.

The Monk and Swashbuckler levels (levels 1 through 5) can be switched around to taste. I personally like Swash 1/ Monk 2/ Swash 2

[Manly Man]

Have him go for Aegis (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/aegis)//Factotum. He'd basically get to be a psionic version of Iron Man.

[Fax Celestis]

Have him go for Aegis (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/aegis)//Factotum. He'd basically get to be a psionic version of Iron Man.

Ahahaha yesssssss

[Waker]

Since there are already two spellcasters and you are playing PF, how about Factotum/Cavalier? Factotum would grant him extra skill points and a good Reflex, plus you could use Cunning Surge to swap Teamwork feats with Tactician.

[magwaaf]

the day idont have my laptop with my factotum/warblade gestalt build.. its amazing...

factotum/xxxx is pure win

i just though of wanting to try factotum/dread necro

DREAD LICHTOTUM!!!

[magwaaf]

the day idont have my laptop with my factotum/warblade gestalt build.. its amazing...

factotum/xxxx is pure win

i just though of wanting to try factotum/dread necro

DREAD LICHTOTUM!!!

[Fouredged Sword]

Well, he could always just not make his mind up and play a factotum 20 // bard 5 / chameleon 10 / Bard 5

You can do just about anything with that build. Take bardic knack for awesome ability to just pull a skill out of your hat, and spells from every class list.

[avr]

Alchemist // Factotum can nova with bombs or buff to fight physically. Not top tier optimisation but it should be OK; some INT focus but if you're going to fight physically you need other stats too.

Factotum // Oracle with the right mystery could make skill checks even more of a breeze than factotum alone. Or you could take the heavens mystery and just use color spray until cunning surge for extra actions comes online. Both CHA and INT required either way.

[Asteron]

He is going Factotum//Ranger/Horizon Walker and taking the feat Keen Intellect. Both Ranger and Horizon Walker will be the Pathfinder versions.

[Gnaeus]

I see that every other character in party has a full casting or ToB class on one side of the build.

This means that as play progresses, if he does not have a full casting/manifesting/ToB class or some other similar power trick on one side of the build, he will be steadily losing ground to the entire rest of his team. If the game will end by about level 6, he may not notice. Much after that it will likely become very apparent if the other players are of similar opti-fu.

One thing that hasn't been suggested yet that is very good in 3.P is Factotum//Summoner (synthesist or otherwise). It isn't quite as good as Factotum//Fullcaster, but easier in play and possessing amazing potential for action economy abuse.

[Asteron]

I see that every other character in party has a full casting or ToB class on one side of the build.

This means that as play progresses, if he does not have a full casting/manifesting/ToB class or some other similar power trick on one side of the build, he will be steadily losing ground to the entire rest of his team. If the game will end by about level 6, he may not notice. Much after that it will likely become very apparent if the other players are of similar opti-fu.

One thing that hasn't been suggested yet that is very good in 3.P is Factotum//Summoner (synthesist or otherwise). It isn't quite as good as Factotum//Fullcaster, but easier in play and possessing amazing potential for action economy abuse.

I'm sure he knows this as he is very experienced. He often goes for flavor over power and he really likes this idea. There will be no changing his mind.

He will be sure to do just fine. My only concern is that he has two very passive classes going on here. However, like I said, he won't change his mind.

[truemane]

As someone said, Factotum stacks with pretty much everything.

I've played a Factotum/Beguiler up to level 10 and it was awesome every single second. You can do some nifty Iajutsu Focus things without getting so abusive that your DM wants to kill you.