Stackable Debuff spells

[Novercalis]

I would like to know what is and what is NOT stackable.


SPELLS:


Angry Ache
Necromancy
Level: Assassin 1, Cleric 1, Pain 1,
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One living creature
Duration: 1 minute/level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

The caster temporarily strains the subject's muscles in a very specific way. The subject feels a sharp pain whenever she makes an attack. All her attack rolls have a -2 circumstance penalty for every four caster levels (maximum penalty -10).


Bane
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Fear, Mind-Affecting]
Level: Cleric 1, Dread Necromancer 1, Blighter 1, Death Master 1, Jester 1, Savant 1 (Divine),
Components: V, S, DF,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 50 ft.
Area: All enemies within 50 ft.
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Bane fills your enemies with fear and doubt. Each affected creature takes a -1 penalty on attack rolls and a -1 penalty on saving throws against fear effects.

Doom
Necromancy [Fear, Mind-Affecting]
Level: Cleric 1, Dread Necromancer 1, Disciple of Thrym 1, Knight of the Chalice 1, Blighter 1, Death Master 1, Jester 1,
Components: V, S, DF,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: One living creature
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell fills a single subject with a feeling of horrible dread that causes it to become shaken.
shaken: Mildly fearful. A shaken character takes a –2 penalty on
attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks


Curse of Ill Fortune

Transmutation
Level: Blackguard 2, Cleric 2,
Components: V, S, DF,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: One living creature
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

You place a temporary curse upon the subject, giving her a -3 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, ability checks, and skill checks.
Curse of ill fortune is negated by any spell that removes a bestow curse spell.

Sorrow
Enchantment [Evil, Mind-Affecting]
Level: Bard 1, Cleric 1,
Components: V, S, M,
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One living creature
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Grief and sadness overcome the subject.
She takes a -3 morale penalty on all attack rolls, saving throws, ability checks, and skill checks.
Material Component: A tear.


Wrack
Necromancy [Evil]
Level: Cleric 3, Sorcerer 4, Wizard 4,
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area: One humanoid
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

A humanoid subject of the spellcaster's choosing is wracked with such pain that he doubles over and collapses.
His face and hands blister and drip fluid, and the eyes cloud with blood, rendering him blind.
For the duration of the spell, the subject is considered helpless and cannot take actions.
Even when the spell ends, the subject is still visibly shaken and suffers a -2 penalty on attack rolls, saves, and checks for 3d10 minutes.
The subject's sight returns at the end of the spell's duration.


Wave of Grief
Enchantment [Evil, Mind-Affecting]
Level: Bard 2, Blackguard 2, Cleric 2,
Components: S, M,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area: Cone
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

All within the cone when the spell is cast are overcome with sorrow and grief.
They suffer a -3 morale penalty on all attack rolls, saving throws, ability checks, and skill checks.
Material Component: Three tears.

Suffering Domain Ability:
Pain Touch

Granted Powers: You may use pain touch as a spell-like ability once per day. To deliver a pain touch, you must succeed on a melee touch attack against a living creature (using the rules for touch spells). If you hit, your touch bestows a -2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity on the target for 1 minute. Creatures that are immune to critical hits are also immune to this effect.

&

Bestow Curse (no Spoiler, should be obvious)

[Yuki Akuma]

Untyped bonuses stack with other untyped bonuses.

Circumstance bonuses stack with other circumstance bonuses.

Morale bonuses do not stack. You use the best bonus/worst penalty.

So... all of those stack except for Sorrow and Wave of Grief.

None of them stack with themselves (casting Curse of Ill Fortune twice doesn't inflict a -6 penalty, for instance). You could cast Bestow Curse three times and choose a different curse each time, though.

[eggynack]

Also, the shakening stacks with itself to get the enemy to frightened and panicked. You've got a couple of shakens mixed in there.

[Novercalis]

Also, the shakening stacks with itself to get the enemy to frightened and panicked. You've got a couple of shakens mixed in there.

Ok so how does Bane work?

Let say I cast Bane first.
He does not automatically take a -1 Attack/Save until I cast ANOTHER fear based spell?

If so, If I cast 3 different fear based spells, Bane will become -3 attack/save?

[Yuki Akuma]

...What?

When you cast Bane (and the target fails the save), they take a -1 penalty on attack rolls and saving throws against fear for (level) minutes.

This is what the spell does and all that the spell does.

[eggynack]

Ok so how does Bane work?

Let say I cast Bane first.
He does not automatically take a -1 Attack/Save until I cast ANOTHER fear based spell?

If so, If I cast 3 different fear based spells, Bane will become -3 attack/save?
Bane doesn't appear to be a fear effect at all. The enemy just gets what the spell says he gets. I was talking about doom, combined with wrack. Casting both on the enemy gets them to frightened.

[Yuki Akuma]

Bane doesn't appear to be a fear effect at all. The enemy just gets what the spell says he gets. I was talking about doom, combined with wrack. Casting both on the enemy gets them to frightened.

Enchantment (Compulsion) [Fear, Mind-Affecting]

It is a fear effect. It doesn't make the target shaken (and so can't stack up to panic), but it's still a fear effect.

This is important mostly to saving throws and people immune to fear like Paladins. But it does mean if someone is Bane'd and you cast Bane again, they take a -1 penalty on the saving throw (not that failing it does anything other than resetting the duration).

[eggynack]

Enchantment (Compulsion) [Fear, Mind-Affecting]

It is a fear effect. It doesn't make the target shaken (and so can't stack up to panic), but it's still a fear effect.

This is important mostly to saving throws and people immune to fear like Paladins. But it does mean if someone is Bane'd and you cast Bane again, they take a -1 penalty on the saving throw (not that failing it does anything other than resetting the duration).
Right. Didn't see that there. I thought I'd checked it too.

[XionUnborn01]

Doom gives the target the Shaken condition, which is what causes the penalties, if another source were to also bestow the shaken condition, it would automatically escalate to the Frightened condition.

Though, eggynack, I think wrack is only using shaken as a general description.

"Even when the spell ends, the subject is still visibly shaken and suffers a -2 penalty on attack rolls, saves, and checks for 3d10 minutes."

It doesn't seem to actually say they have the shaken condition, though they have the exact same penalties, so I could see that easily being treated as the shaken condition. I just wanted to point out that I don't think it necessarily is saying it imparts that condition. Again, not trying to say that you're wrong but I wanted to point out my interpretation of the wording.

[Novercalis]

ok gotcha.. but now i got myself curious on this though

Bane fills your enemies with fear and doubt. Each affected creature takes a -1 penalty on attack rolls and a -1 penalty on saving throws against fear effects.

Sounds like cumulative if I stacked 3 additional fear effects spells.

[XionUnborn01]

Novercalis, it's saying the the penalty only applies on saving throws against fear effects.

[Yuki Akuma]

ok gotcha.. but now i got myself curious on this though

Bane fills your enemies with fear and doubt. Each affected creature takes a -1 penalty on attack rolls and a -1 penalty on saving throws against fear effects.

Sounds like cumulative if I stacked 3 additional fear effects spells.

He takes a -1 penalty on saving throws made to resist fear effects.

I have absolutely no idea where you're getting this interpretation from.

[Novercalis]

Novercalis, it's saying the the penalty only applies on saving throws against fear effects.

my interpretation would say you are Incorrect.

Had it been written as:

Each Affected Creature takes a -1 penalty on attack rolls.
Also, each affected creature takes a -1 penalty on saving throws against fear effects.

That I can see it seperated.. but because it is written the way it is, with the word AND, it applies to both attack penality n saving throw, imo.

Bane fills your enemies with fear and doubt. Each affected creature takes a -1 penalty on attack rolls and a -1 penalty on saving throws against fear effects.

[Yuki Akuma]

Honestly, I think that before asking how to stack spell effects, you should figure out how to handle single spell effects.

The way you're reading Bane is completely wrong. This is not an issue that is open to argument. It's not a semantic issue. You are doing it wrong.

"Take a -1 penalty to attack rolls and a -1 penalty to saving throws against fear" means that you take a -1 penalty to attack rolls and a -1 penalty to saving throws against fear effects.

[eggynack]

I think that the problem is that you don't know what a saving throw against fear effects is. It means that if you cast a fear effect on someone who you've cast fear on, they take a -1 penalty on that saving throw. If you do know what a saving throw against fear effects is, the misunderstanding here is kinda inexplicable to me. It's a bit that way anyways, honestly.

[XionUnborn01]

my interpretation would say you are Incorrect.

Had it been written as:

Each Affected Creature takes a -1 penalty on attack rolls.
Also, each affected creature takes a -1 penalty on saving throws against fear effects.

That I can see it seperated.. but because it is written the way it is, with the word AND, it applies to both attack penality n saving throw, imo.

Bane fills your enemies with fear and doubt. Each affected creature takes a -1 penalty on attack rolls and a -1 penalty on saving throws against fear effects.


I'm not trying to be rude but what exactly are you saying?

This is what the spell does, I'll write it out in the easiest way that I can;
Each target that fails the save takes a -1 on it's attack rolls for the duration of the spell.
Additionally, each target that fails the save takes a -1 on saving throws that only applies to fear effects.

Hopefully that's clear enough to get rid of any confusion.

[Captnq]

ya know, I once did a complete write up on bestow curse and every possible permutation. Where did I put it...? Ah.

HERE (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4571.msg70533#msg70533).

You know what? I really should restart that thread again.