A Different Way to View Alignment

[Chester]

I pointed this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=305276) out to my DM, as he's going for a "gray" campaign that blurs the lines between good and evil, and he came up with a fantastic idea:

Instead of using D&D Alignment, base alignment on the colors of the Magic: the Gathering card game.

Hear me out. You have:
White: Law, Holy, "Good"
Green: Nature, Life, Brute Strength
Red: Chaos, "Blitz"
Black: Death, "Evil"
Blue: Nurture, Technology, Logic

Character alignment falls on the spectrum here. Instead of "Chaotic Good," you're "Red/White"; Neutral Evil could be "Blue/Black".

It takes the good/evil and makes it more malleable.

Spells such as "Detect Evil" become things like "Detect Opposing Colors" or the like.

[DruidAlanon]

I like the idea. Blue is related to ability scores though (wis+ int).

[falloutimperial]

Great idea! I have good news.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136177

Someone managed to flesh out what is basically what you said, evening out any problems. So the work is done for you.

[ArcturusV]

Just one word of warning, as a Magic Nerd... White isn't "Good" and Black isn't "Evil".

I know it's often depicted as that. Black gets characters like Phyrexians and Crovax. And white gets punks like Gerrard and King Darien of Kjeldor. But white also gets things like the "Hand of Justice" (An avatar who completely annihilates people via the power of mob rule), Farrel and his Zealots, things like the Azorious at Blue/White, an evil oppressive fascist group. And black also has characters like Toshi Umezawa, who are quite heroic.

Black is more "Chaos" than Red is. Red is more "Madness" than Chaos as DnD defines it. Black is about individuality (Very Chaotic). Black Heroes tend to be like the Robin Hoods, living as outlaws and doing good. Black Villains tend to be like demons, chaotic stupid, destructive, and out for themselves at any price. Red is... closer to insanity. Possibly towards Neutral which it would share with green (Blue and White are both pretty Lawful being based around establishing order in the world via Law, Mob Rule, Inquisitions and Crusades or just mad scientist "I will perfect the harmony of the sphere" in blue's case). Red characters tend to be Ragers, barbarians, people more or less incapable of rational thought (Like most goblins), large dumb beasts (Which tend to be True Neutral).

[Yuki Akuma]

Red is passion, emotion and freedom, not insanity. Black is all about sacrifice - yourself or others - to get what you want. Obviously, a Black hero is more self-sacrificing than a Black villain.

And yes, none of the colours are Good or Evil. Some are Lawful or Chaotic, though. A hero can be any colour, and so can a villain.

A White hero is a knight in shining armour. Just and valorous, protector of the weak and upholder of the law. A White villain is a tyrant, controlling the masses through indoctrination and conformity, although he has a twisted sort of sense of fair play. White is inherently fair - a lot of its mass removal spells remove its own creatures, too.

A Blue hero is a scientist or savant using his knowledge to help others. He's insatiably curious. A Blue villain is also insatiably curious, but is far less scrupulous about gaining knowledge and probably just wants it for the sake of power.

A Black hero is a 'the ends justify the means' sort. He'll do anything to help other people, and will sacrifice a single life to save dozens, even if it's his own. A Black villain is selfish and desires power at any cost, especially if the cost hurts other people and not him (but he's not above selling his own soul for power, if he thinks it's worth it).

A Red hero is passionate and driven. He believes that freedom is an essential right for all sapient beings (yes I'm saying Optimus Prime has shades of Red to him). A Red villain is... possibly mad, although he doesn't have to be. He lets his negative emotions - anger, hate, etc. - rule him.

A Green hero is a guardian of nature, as well as a protector of people from the worst that nature has to offer. He'll stress getting along harmoniously with nature. A Green villain, meanwhile, is the sort of nature warrior who'll murder loggers for defiling nature, rather than trying to come to some sort of compromise.

Also, note that each colour has two allies and two enemies. White is allied with Blue and Green, and opposes Black and Red. Blue is allied with Black and White, and opposes Red and Green. Black is allied with Blue and Red, and opposes Green and White. Red is allied with Black and Green, and opposes White and Blue. And Green is allied with Red and White, and opposes Blue and Black.

Of course, there's always exceptions. An individual (or even a group) can follow two opposed colours, like the Izzet League, who are Red/Blue.

[ArcturusV]

I think the Red=Madness thing comes in a bit clearer though when you start to see pairs.

Boros, White/Red: Quotes about them causing chaos and madness are rife throughout Ravnica. They are built around Mob Rule and a narrow "Whatever I can take right now" mindset, giving up individuality to embrace the madness of viscous melees without concern for themselves, but only for the order themselves. They're zealot-mad, and probably the weakest example of "Madness" to red as a trait and a stronger call for "Passion", but the "Passion" element is also pretty standard for White, where you get things like Farrel, Darien of Kjeldor, Radiant, Serra, etc, etc, etc.

Gruul, Green/Red: Also known as Madmen. Their ranks include large numbers of savage berserkers, often incapable of the ability to even learn, or recognize patterns of behavior, or even self aware sometimes. Crude, violent, unpredictable, with a very heavy streak of Sadism.

Izzet, Red/Blue: They're mad scientists. Like the Boros, quotes about them being incapable of basic planning are all over the game. There is hardly any references, other than to Niv-Mizzet, which suggests Izzet guildmages are even capable of coherent behavior over the span of 5 minutes (seriously, see how some of them behave in say, the Guild Pact novel).

Rakdos, Red/Black: Sadists, Masochists. They are pure anarchists, yes, but also complete sociopaths to the last man, from their demonic guild leader all the way down to their lowest grunts. They are incapable of forming any decent long term plans, and react more to stimuli than thought and reason.

All the "red/something" combinations really include madness as a chief element.

Whereas "Passion" is really something that is universal across colors, like Good and Evil. Every color has "Passionate" characters (And quite a lot of them). Be it Crovax in Black, or Ertai in Blue, Raziel in White, Seton in Green, etc. But "madness" seems to be something fairly red specific (Excepting Odyssey block as that was a theme for that set and thus showed up in all colors). Thus why they have suicide bombers, burn up their own resources for short term gains, etc.

[Chester]

Just one word of warning, as a Magic Nerd... White isn't "Good" and Black isn't "Evil".

That's the point, I just placed the words in quotation marks to emphasize traditional views. What is traditionally viewed as "evil" might not really be evil, which makes the D&D alignment system flawed.

EDIT: falloutimperial, thanks for the link--that's incredibly helpful!

[Icarusthefallen]

It is always interesting how people try to justify or modify the alignments from different perspectives. The major issue is always the perspective from which it is viewed. Each game, each setting, each player group will vary how the alignments could be seen. They are supposed to be generalizations from the perspective of the majority (setting controled populace) to indicate how reactions to events, people, places, and things occur. Thats my 2cp.

[Chester]

It is always interesting how people try to justify or modify the alignments from different perspectives. The major issue is always the perspective from which it is viewed. Each game, each setting, each player group will vary how the alignments could be seen. They are supposed to be generalizations from the perspective of the majority (setting controled populace) to indicate how reactions to events, people, places, and things occur. Thats my 2cp.

I see what you mean; that's why I wish the D&D system itself would suit that!

I'm playing a NE Dread Necro; what kills me is that in our "gray" campaign, people who can detect alignment automatically react to that. With the color concept, it changes perceptions. As it stands now, there's no way to effectively play "gray" when issues of alignment come up. The first question is always, "Do I detect evil?"