Shapechange

[Max Caysey]

Hello...

I was thinking about something the other day. Can Shapechange be used to reduce or increase once size without changing form or race? Can you just make yourself as a human wizard, Fine? Or Colossal? And what effect whould this have on con, str ect.?

[Sith_Happens]

No.


The new form’s significant physical qualities (such as height, weight, and gender) are also under your control, but they must fall within the norms for the new form’s kind.

Neither Polymorph nor Shapechange contradict or remove this restriction.

[Max Caysey]

No.



Neither Polymorph nor Shapechange contradict or remove this restriction.

I find that a little weird, that a level 1 Enlarge, can do it, but a level 9 cant, but hey even WoTC make mistakes!

[Incorrect]

Reduce and Enlarge Person does this, and provides you with modifiers for such transformation.
But as above, Shapechange does not allow it.

[Max Caysey]

Indeed, I just find it strange that you cant do it with shapechange...

[limejuicepowder]

Indeed, I just find it strange that you cant do it with shapechange...

I'd say it's a good thing. In general, I don't like it when higher level spells are strictly better than lower level ones.The scope and depth of power should always go up as the levels go up, but that doesn't mean higher level spells should be "as lower level, but better."

[gooddragon1]

It can be done, but not with anything you're likely to ever get:

Alter Size (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#alterSize)

Benefit:
As a free action, the deity can assume any size from Fine to Colossal. The deity also can change the size of up to 100 pounds of objects it touches. If the deity has a familiar, personal mount, or personal intelligent weapon, the creature can change size with the deity if the deity touches it, but its weight counts against the deity’s weight limit. This is a supernatural ability.

Notes:
This ability allows the deity to assume any proportions from the size of a grain of sand up or as much as 1,600 feet tall. A radical change in size can have great impact on the deity’s combat ability. The deity’s Strength, Armor Class, attack bonus, and damage dealt with weapons changes according to the size the deity assumes. The deity’s Strength score can never be reduced to less than 1 through this ability. Also note that use of this divine ability does not affect all the deities’ characteristics.

Suggested Portfolio Elements:
Any.

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That said, I'm sure some optimization magic can probably do something.

[Darthor]

I don't have the books right now, but i am pretty sure the Wu Jen spell list have some spell that does exactly what you want (for being larger at least...), maybe you can research a twin spell?

[johnbragg]

I find that a little weird, that a level 1 Enlarge, can do it, but a level 9 cant, but hey even WoTC make mistakes!

WEll, Meteor Swarm can't be used to duplicate Burning Hands, either.

Polymorph Any Object can do the job. The bad (?) news is, the modifiers (same kingdom, class, related, same intelligence) make the duration Permanent.

[Karnith]

I don't have the books right now, but i am pretty sure the Wu Jen spell list have some spell that does exactly what you want (for being larger at least...), maybe you can research a twin spell?
Giant Size is a Wu Jen 7 spell that can get you up to Colossal size, and Minute Form is a Wu Jen 8 spell that can get you down to Fine size, if your CL is high enough.

Polymorph Any Object can do the job. The bad (?) news is, the modifiers (same kingdom, class, related, same intelligence) make the duration Permanent.
Polymorph Any Object is subject to the same restriction as Shapechange when it comes to this issue, since they both inherit the clause from Alter Self that says that significant physical qualities must fall within the norms of the new form's kind.

[Chronos]

Shapechange can't duplicate Enlarge/Reduce Person directly, but it can come pretty close. There's very little difference, for a human, between a Reduce Person spell and shapechanging into a halfling, and shapechanging into a giant of some sort will almost always be better than Enlarge Person.