How to prevent party thievery?

[Arael666]

Long story short, I'm a new player in a group of 3 people, getting in as a LG DMM persist Human cleric, melee oriented.

Lil insight on the party:

1. A Youkai sorcerer (homebrew race), armed with a truckload of cheese (last session he inflicted 18 negative levels with one spell on a rogue, and I don't know how he managed to do this, but it involves "Black Lore of Moil").

2. A Youkai cleric, with 2 cohorts. Turns out he took the feat extra followers and the DM allowed him to swap all his followers for another cohort (wich are now his consorts).

3. A Youkai something. Since It was my first session my character haven't even met this one, so I know nothing about him.

The problem: the group has a sorwhale as base of operations, I managed to get invited to their "group", and the first thing that happens? The guy nº 3 steals 2.500 gold pieces from me (they gave me a room on the whale and I stored my stuff there).

I don't want to get back at him, even though I'm really pissed. I just want to prevent him from doing that again. For now I intend to buy a bag of holding, store all my stuff there, and keep it close to me at all times, but I'm afraid it may backfire, any better solutions?

[danzibr]

You left your stuff there and he stole it while you were away?

Yeah, keeping it close by should help... but I just wouldn't play in such a group.

[Studoku]

What's so important that your LG cleric is still willing to put up with people like this as allies?

[Arael666]

You left your stuff there and he stole it while you were away?

Yeah, keeping it close by should help... but I just wouldn't play in such a group.


What's so important that your LG cleric is still willing to put up with people like this as allies?

The first two guys are alright, mostly. It's a roleplay heavy campaign, and the DM penalizes us for not acting like our race+class+alignment, so I'm assuming the 3º guy (wich is in fact a girl) is a rogue.

I expect that when my hcaracter gets to know the group better this will stop, but untill then I need to protect my stuff.

[Segev]

First off, Black Lore of Moil only adds negative energy damage - as in hit points - to spells. If he's having it add negative LEVELS, he's cheating (possibly unintentionally).

Secondly, have you spoken to the player(s) about the PvP theft? OOC, do they know it has reduced your enjoyment of the game? If you're not going to enjoy this OOC at-table culture, it may not be worth playing with them. Problems like this are best addressed OOC first, in order to determine where you really stand.

IC, does your PC know who stole his stuff? Has he confronted them about it? If so, what was the response? Does the rest of the party know that PC No. 3 is a thief? Are they complicit, or do they merely accept it, or do they not believe it? If the last, why hasn't he robbed them? If they merely accept it, how do they protect their stuff?

If they're complicit, then you should probably leave the party if yours isn't willing to get in on it.

If the attitude is, "It's not theft; we're all one big happy party," then take them at their word: when you want something, sell an item that will pay for it. Don't do it with extreme malice, but if they're going to just take your money, you can just take theirs.

If they're instead pretending they didn't steal it (so you doing so would be something they'd accuse you of being in the wrong for), then you need to determine if your PC really would stick with this group.

Because, short of extensive, paranoia-laced traps and locks and hidden vaults, you're not going to protect your stuff when you can't trust your party.

And an LG cleric probably wouldn't put up with this kind of behavior. In all honesty? If they're going to go into PvP, you may HAVE to "get back" at them. There are two ways to do this: the Knight Templar method, or the LG Objectivist method.

Knight Templar: You are a paragon of justice. They have stolen. Confront them, and engage in PvP. TAKE back your loot, or an equivalent value of his. By force if necessary. You're a DMM Persist Cleric; you should be able to kill them if they resist your righteous wrath.

LG Objectivist: They have breeched the level of party-sharing that is normally present. Clearly, they have no respect for you or your property. Refuse to heal those who have stolen from you. Or, heal them, but only when they pay you for the service. Whatever you feel like demanding for it.



There is the third method, the Christ-like one: you can turn the other cheek. But if you do that, you need to make it clear that you're allowing them to take advantage of you out of the kindness of your heart. Take steps to become an excellent investigator. Prepare Batman-level PvP tactics to neutralize and take down each of them. Don't tell them about those, but do tell them to ask, not to simply steal. Act as a patient (not preachy, not overbearing) teacher, showing them kindness both in sharing willingly what they wish to take and in how you treat others.

And, when they cross the lines they ignore with your generous, kind cleric, give them one warning. Tell them, ONCE, to stop it and return what they've taken. (If they've murdered, obviously they don't even get this.) If they ignore the warning, destroy them. Keep them alive and throw them in a prison if you can, so you can preach at them - and this time, it should be a "throw the moneylenders out of the temple" sermon - but demonstrate that your kindness, your mercy, your willingness to let them have whatever they want to take from you isn't weakness: it's generosity.



But again: Talk to the players and DM OOC about whether or not this kind of behavior should be acceptable. If it will make you not enjoy the game, you should work out how to work an IC story out to get your PC immune to it. Of this isn't the game for you.

[Ansem]

Slap the bitch :P perfect roleplay.....
But really, explain how this is bothering with the group and especially the DM and if this doesn't give a solution why they shouldn't be bitching when you solve this ingame.

A way I always do this is just wait.... at some point your thief is going to be knocked unconscious and below health at this moment. Steal EVERYTHING from them. Should they mess with you again, the next time you coup de grace them.
I've teamkilled a few 'rogues' this way who thought playing a rogue meant stealing from everyone or just found it funny but kept whining when you took something back and THEN turned it into a feud.

Summarized, these people are Kenders and you have every right to genocide them should they remain Kenders. This is your duty and expected of you for every other D&D player and DM out there.

[Studoku]

roleplay heavy campaign, and the DM penalizes us for not acting like our race+class+alignment
Ah. One of those campaigns. Sounds like the group mistakes "I'm a CN rogue so I steal everything that isn't nailed down, tee hee" for actual roleplay.

Still, it's worth leading by example and roleplaying properly. Tell us more about your cleric? Why is he allying himself with a group that thinks it's appropriate to steal from him? Has he even raised the matter with the other two members of the group?

[Keneth]

Sounds like the group mistakes "I'm a CN rogue so I steal everything that isn't nailed down, tee hee" for actual roleplay.

Maybe the character is an actual kleptomaniac. Or a polymorphed kender. :smallbiggrin:

[Arael666]

One at time, please :p

In response to segev

I also know that he is cheating, but cant confront him directly, since we're not allowed to know the other character information unless we ask them directly.

My PC dont know who did, but he's fairly certain it was someone on the ship (it has a crew), the first 2 dont know who did it also, and are helping to investigate. Also, I'm very fond of the Knight templar way :D, thanks.

In response to Studoku, yeah, one of those campaigns.

I'm allying mylself with them cause the 1º guy saved my ass once, when we met the first time. So I kinda owe him a bit.

Dont get me wrong, I'm really pissed, but It's not like they are all that bad. It's just that I don't know the group that well to judge them rigth away.

[Arael666]

Also, does anyone know a good way to determine who did it? Other than discern lies and zone of thruth I'm out of options.

All that was taken was money, so I can't search people. There is no evidence at all of someone entering my room other than the gold missing (I only noticed that I was stolen when I said I wanted to go to the market and taking my "wallet" with me).

[SethoMarkus]

I never understood Intra-Party thievery. Sure, stealing may be in-character for a rogue or thief character, but the character should also have fairly low Int and Wis scores if they are going to rob their own adventuring party. What better way to continue stealing and looting than to have a group of loyal and strong companions that will back you up? If you alienate your own group, you're just biting the hand that feeds you.

I second the suggestion of talking it out with the group OOC. Explain to the rogue-ish character's player that although thievery may be in-character for the rogue, it is not in the best interest of the party. Rob orphanages, pocket holy relics, whatever, but don't take an item from a fellow party member. The player can't expect to pull a Yuffie from FFVII and get away with it; that only worked because it was a video game and you weren't allowed to just beat her into submission.

[Segev]

Zone of Truth can help a little. There's a thread on it right now (did you start that one, too?), and in it I recommend, if you've got the luxury of time, first interrogatinginterviewing people without it. Use Sense Motive as you can. Do some standard investigative work wherein you get alibis and check them against other witnesses' accounts. Inconsistencies can be useful here even without magic.

Now. Cast Zone of Truth and interview people again. It won't be perfect. They absolutely can make their will saves. But not everyone will, and that will lead to some inconsistencies.

Continue investigating. Do search people: you're an LG cleric and you've been wronged. Unless there are rules against searching personal belongings on this ship, you're within your rights. If there ARE such rules, make sure to keep track of all of them so you can use them to your advantage later. Even if it just gives you more crimes to plaster the guilty party wtih.

Interview people again. Casually this time. Just check for consistency and new information.

Have another formal Zone of Truth session. Have several. Or cast multiple Zones on the room so they have to make a lot of saves all at once. But if you've got the time, doing it every few hours or every day gets the same chance of an eventual failed save combined with the chance to see how their story changes or how they won't repeat aspects they've told you before while in the Zone.

In fact, when you think you've found somebody who HAS failed their save, test a few more things...and if you're sure, ask them outright if they stole the loot. Doubtless, you've asked this of people before. If they now won't answer when before they'd said they had...search them and investigate their property. Ask around about how much they'd had before.

Be methodical, be relentless. If needs be, make the investigation irritating enough that simply confessing on a day when you'll give amnesty for it (as long as restitution is paid) might be worth it to the thief.


Being a Knight Templar means you do need to take extra steps to protect your stuff, but it also means you should take steps to set a trap. Not just a trap to physically catch or hurt the thief, but a trap in the form of something that will let you know who stole it. And then you confront them openly about it.

Heck, turn this to your advantage. Your righteous indignation at this unlawful, selfish activity can let you build trust amongst the rest of the crew. Let them come to you with issues. Become the tabulator of the "how things are done" rules as well as the formal ones, and set yourself up as judge and jury and chief detective in the ship's society. Take it very seriously, with an eye towards helping everybody. Punish the guilty, but do so with either an eye towards reformation...or simply exile them. Your community is small; if it's somebody you can reform, you can't afford to ostracize them. If it's somebody you can't, you can't afford their presence, unless you can keep them in line pro-actively.

You might consider Leadership eventually to mechanically represent the loyalty you're winning amongst the crew. You may not be captain; you may not own the ship. But the crew will trust your judgment and honesty, and that's a value that you can take to the bank and no thief can steal.

[Psyren]

Just refuse to record the theft on your sheet, and shop for items normally. Eventually they'll drop this nonsense. The game is not designed for PvP.

If the DM tries to enforce it, roleplay your boot up his colon.

[skyth]

Something to consider with Zone of Truth. A caster of a spell always knows when someone has failed a save against one of his spells.

[Psyren]

Something to consider with Zone of Truth. A caster of a spell always knows when someone has failed a save against one of his spells.

Only for targeted spells - ZoT is an area spell so this won't work.

[Sidmen]

Also, does anyone know a good way to determine who did it? Other than discern lies and zone of thruth I'm out of options.

All that was taken was money, so I can't search people. There is no evidence at all of someone entering my room other than the gold missing (I only noticed that I was stolen when I said I wanted to go to the market and taking my "wallet" with me).

Easy: Grab everyone's attention at a group meeting of all character and loudly claim that the security of their lair has been compromised. You have noticed a HUGE theft from your rooms and since, CLEARLY, none of the party would be so stupid as to steal from their allies - that there must be someone infiltrating the lair. Then, hire dozens of guards to patrol the halls, stake out at the entrance, etc. Trained hirelings cost only 3sp a day, so you should be able to keep a lot on staff near constantly.

[Jade_Tarem]

Next time the rogue needs healing, simply refuse on the grounds that you needed to prepare and cast too many spells protecting your stuff from an unknown thief to have any actual healing prepared today. If she challenges you on it, ask how many ranks of Knowledge: Religion or Spellcraft she has. If (somehow) she has enough to actually know what she's talking about, point out that you've cast from all of your spell slots already and can't convert even if you want to. If there's a wand of cure light wounds in the party, claim you sold it to buy magic items that would protect your stuff. Be as obdurate as you need to be. If the GM enforces actual social pvp, then you may want to invest in some bluff first.

Either the rogue will get the hint and give you your stuff back, or she'll die due to inadequate healing and you won't have to worry about theft anymore.

Or you could go with one of the already listed solutions. If your character knows who did it, then I favor the charging for healing one. Ask for about 2,500 gp the next time the rogue needs a fix.

Or the OOC method works too.

[Arael666]

Thanks for all the replies and sugestions.

I guess I'll investigate the matter further in character, with the aid of the other party members, but I'll refrain from discussing the problem OOC for now, I'll see how the session works first.