RMS Oceanic
2013-09-26, 08:33 AM
NB: Spoilers inbound from pretty much everywhere, with nary a tag to be seen!
The Order's first defeat of Xykon was a fluke, a deus ex machina left lying around by Dorukan. Ergo I think it's a safe assumption that they won't have the luxury of such a thing when it comes time for the fully fledged rematch. This begs the question: What do they need to prevail? Well I'm hoping to discuss what I think is the final puzzle piece, but it's important to flesh out the rest of the picture, which I shall paradoxically and maybe hypocritically put in spoilers in case people wanna skip to the ending.
This is the most obvious one, they definitely need to be stronger than they were in that dungeon, and fortunately, they are: They're all several levels higher, and have a number of neat toys that will be useful: Roy's sword, Haley's bow, even Durkon's vampirism will play a role. However to quote Parson Gotti, all these are additives: They need other things to truly prevail. I am working off the assumption that Xykon will not be directly overpowered: He is the master of such a tactic, and as Vaarsuvius learned direct power is not necessarily effective.
So in that regard they need a different kind of power, in their allies: the most steadfast alliance is with Hinjo and what resources he has at his command. There's also Roy's Archon and what he's mustering, but there may be a limit to what he can direct towards the material plane. To a lesser extent there are the elves, although the failure of the Resistance may give them pause to further commitment; I have a feeling their position will be fleshed out in the next book, as the most logical place for the Order to go in lieu of access instantaneous transportation would be to the elves, but that's another thread. Arguably their most important alliance is the friend of a friend, i.e. the Monster in the Darkness. He's already saved them from being flattened once, and I think his involvement in the final battle will be a multiplying factor on what the Order can bring to bear.
A while ago the best question I've ever seen was asked in relation to the story: What character development do the Order need to win? It was a great question because all that power is useless if the flaws in your character mean you squander it. Again, look at Darth Vaarsuvius for this. Well we can look at the characters and get a feel for it.
Roy - Chiefly his development has been about responsibility for the right reasons. He got into this to spite Eugene, but long since accepted that the stake of the world is far more important than sticking it to his father. Also more recently is his ability to listen to people even when he's disinclined to do so: He may have no love for Belkar, but possibly through the example of Elan rescuing them from the Microcosm, he learned listened to Belkar when the gate was exploding, and it saved them. This latest assault of Tarquin's is showing how his development has come along: Prior to besting Xykon the Order would likely have fled from such a thing, but despite the disadvantage they're at Roy's maintained a clarity of mind to set up a stand, and it will be this sort of on the fly tactical thinking that a showdown with Xykon needs.
Haley - Haley's development is squared solidly around trust: Finally being open with Elan about her feelings was the first step, but then with Elan being open with his own encounters with the split helped her open up more, and seeing what her father was reduced to by his own mistrust has furthered that openness. Lack of trust is ultimately what did in the Order of the Scribble, and certainly why the struggle for Girard's gate has been so painful. If those alliances that have been cultivated will be of any use, you need someone who understands both paranoia and trust on your team.
Elan - Like Haley, Elan's first big step was his feelings for Haley, and remaining committed to Haley even when temptation came along. The next big step came with the Empire of Blood and all he discovered. He's always been, and still is, the most childish of the Order, and had a lot of faith in the conventions of the genre. However his father has forced him to accept that he can't just have a happy ending on a silver platter. He's going to have to work for it, and carve his own story out rather than either follow the trends or force things to fit those trends. This maturing also means he is more aware of his abilities, so while Dungeon Crawlin Elan would have tried to sing his way out of danger, he actually uses a variety of his tools, and is probably a better example of being able to apply his power more effectively.
Belkar - His real fake epiphany was the obvious step, and definitely when he become an actual effective team player for the Order, but since then there have been hints that he is finally showing concern for anything outside his own needs. Mr Scruffy fits certainly, and his reaction to Durkon's fate has definitely shaken him up, although the full impact of that is still in development. The most important step is his pro-activeness in helping everyone survive the gate. Dungeon Crawlin Belkar probably wouldn't have done that.
Vaarsuvius - Of the entire order, I'd say the most important development hasn't yet been completed in four of them (E, B, V & D), and the last two would be the least complete. Vaarsuvius' grasp for power and what they did with it has been a tremendous catalyst for their character. Like Elan they have had to (re)learn how to effectively apply their power, but that was the immediate personal result of the IFCC deal. The less direct results have only impacted them today: The true extent of Familicide has forced them to consider the implications that Rich considers the most abhorrent of D&D, and now the IFCC calling in their debt far sooner than expected. It will be a while before all this sinks in, but their immediate confession to Roy of what happened, while incomplete due to battle, shows what looks like a complete humbling. They already sacrificed their marriage with little thought to continue this quest, so what else they may sacrifice in the desire to atone will be interesting.
Durkon - I think it's still too early to really see where Durkon now stands. We know he's changed a lot in a physical sense, but how much has his personality changed? Well one thing is he definitely has no compunctions about killing his enemies now, and he still has loyalty to those he called friend in life. I think the real display of his motives will be when the immediate danger passes and we see what his long term desires now are, and how he interacts with people outside the Order who aren't trying to kill him. I think I'll leave it at that for now, because this can be a prickly topic to speculate too deeply on.
So where does this leave the Order as a whole now? To sum it up, they've truly gelled as a team. For the most part they know where they stand with each other, they trust - or at listen to - Roy to lead them, and they are more comfortable with what they can do. This is obviously incomplete - Vaarsiuvius still has a lot of soul searching to do, and we need a clearer picture of how Durkon sees things now - but as a piece of the puzzle, I'd say it's metaphorically in hand, if not yet placed on the puzzle.
Right, with those first two categories broadly discussed, time for the fuzziest part of the puzzle:
Category 3 - Knowledge
They say knowledge is power, and I agree. The thing that prevented this situation being nipped in the bud was nobody (alive) knowing anything about phylacteries or the need to destroy them. And then Roy not knowing enough about Xykon's actual power level lead to the doozy of a first step that was 443. And Vaarsuvius concealing what happened that fateful lunchtime left the battle for Girard's gate effectively a shambles. So what knowledge is needed to be able to prevail?
Well the elephant-that-might-actually-just-be-a-planet in the room is the true nature of the Snarl: Is everyone fighting over nothing? Well we don't know enough to make an accurate judgement on this just yet. It might not be a piece of this particular puzzle, or even a puzzle piece at all.
They're off to a nice start with O-Chul's reconnaissance: Tactical data is something the Order have sorely lacked, and it's what hamstrung previous attempts at a final defeat. They also finally know the status of the phylactery, and thankfully their assumption that Team Evil would bring it with them has been validated by Redcloak concealing the real phylactery from Xykon. I'm 95% confident we will never spend any time at Xykon's astral fortress.
They could do with information on their predecessors: Why the Order of the Scribble broke up? Why their defences failed against Xykon? Learning more about this however is less about defeating Xykon and more about preparing a more balanced and effective defence against abuse of the gates in future. However it may be useful in cultivating the assistance of whomever is at Kraagor's gate that isn't trying to seize it.
Finally, the point of this thread!
Which at long last leads me to the one puzzle piece that I don't see the Order either having at hand or considering the need of: Team Evil's true motive. Something that has struck me as curious is that for a comic with such a major subtext as exploring the unfortunate implications of casually labelling sentient beings as evil, the protagonists have almost completely avoided encountering this question.
The only two examples that spring to my mind of the Order considering the question are Vaarsuvius realising the consequences of Familicide, and Roy resolving that orc camp problem in the Origins of PC's and being berated by his party for the way he resolved it. It goes a great length to establishing that if anyone is to explore the question, it would be Roy, perhaps with Vaarsuvius' insight, but as a more immediate concern that true motive would be a powerful tool in the showdown with Xykon, allowing for "conversion, division or attrition" of enemy forces, to borrow from Parson again.
So where do we stand with the question of "Always Evil"? As I've said, it's interesting that the Order have never had a chance to consider it. It's the primary driving motivation of Redcloak, and Xykon knows this to a degree, but Redcloak has successfully kept the truth from non-Goblinoid eyes and ears for thirty years. I don't think it's too hackney'd a thing for this secret to come out eventually, and at a time that would maximize the devastation to Team Evil.
So if this the final piece of the Puzzle that the Order need to consider, the next question is obvious: What turns them onto the scent? From Microcosm it's obvious they don't currently suspect Redcloak of deceiving Xykon. Haley may be more aware of how dangerous he is than Roy is, but the truth is still hidden from her.
Well short of taking a leaf out of Give My Head Peace* and the Order finding the truth about the plan in their breakfast cereal, I see one fairly obvious conduit: Right-eye's Daughter. We don't know what Right-eye told her, or what of it she understands, but if there's a free agent loose in the world that could at least get the Order onto the trail of the truth, I'd think it's her. There's also a lot to be said for Right-eye's approach of building a village peacefully. Again depending on what she knows and comprehends, she could be the link between the Order and the question of "Always Evil" thinking, and maybe the seeds of a resolution to that conflict, even if it's something that takes years or decades to come about.
So now I've written about as much about a webcomic as I did for my dissertation, what do the boards think? Are there other pieces of the puzzle I've overlooked? Could the Order either discover the truth from another source, or even win without it?
*Northern Irish BBC Sitcom
The Order's first defeat of Xykon was a fluke, a deus ex machina left lying around by Dorukan. Ergo I think it's a safe assumption that they won't have the luxury of such a thing when it comes time for the fully fledged rematch. This begs the question: What do they need to prevail? Well I'm hoping to discuss what I think is the final puzzle piece, but it's important to flesh out the rest of the picture, which I shall paradoxically and maybe hypocritically put in spoilers in case people wanna skip to the ending.
This is the most obvious one, they definitely need to be stronger than they were in that dungeon, and fortunately, they are: They're all several levels higher, and have a number of neat toys that will be useful: Roy's sword, Haley's bow, even Durkon's vampirism will play a role. However to quote Parson Gotti, all these are additives: They need other things to truly prevail. I am working off the assumption that Xykon will not be directly overpowered: He is the master of such a tactic, and as Vaarsuvius learned direct power is not necessarily effective.
So in that regard they need a different kind of power, in their allies: the most steadfast alliance is with Hinjo and what resources he has at his command. There's also Roy's Archon and what he's mustering, but there may be a limit to what he can direct towards the material plane. To a lesser extent there are the elves, although the failure of the Resistance may give them pause to further commitment; I have a feeling their position will be fleshed out in the next book, as the most logical place for the Order to go in lieu of access instantaneous transportation would be to the elves, but that's another thread. Arguably their most important alliance is the friend of a friend, i.e. the Monster in the Darkness. He's already saved them from being flattened once, and I think his involvement in the final battle will be a multiplying factor on what the Order can bring to bear.
A while ago the best question I've ever seen was asked in relation to the story: What character development do the Order need to win? It was a great question because all that power is useless if the flaws in your character mean you squander it. Again, look at Darth Vaarsuvius for this. Well we can look at the characters and get a feel for it.
Roy - Chiefly his development has been about responsibility for the right reasons. He got into this to spite Eugene, but long since accepted that the stake of the world is far more important than sticking it to his father. Also more recently is his ability to listen to people even when he's disinclined to do so: He may have no love for Belkar, but possibly through the example of Elan rescuing them from the Microcosm, he learned listened to Belkar when the gate was exploding, and it saved them. This latest assault of Tarquin's is showing how his development has come along: Prior to besting Xykon the Order would likely have fled from such a thing, but despite the disadvantage they're at Roy's maintained a clarity of mind to set up a stand, and it will be this sort of on the fly tactical thinking that a showdown with Xykon needs.
Haley - Haley's development is squared solidly around trust: Finally being open with Elan about her feelings was the first step, but then with Elan being open with his own encounters with the split helped her open up more, and seeing what her father was reduced to by his own mistrust has furthered that openness. Lack of trust is ultimately what did in the Order of the Scribble, and certainly why the struggle for Girard's gate has been so painful. If those alliances that have been cultivated will be of any use, you need someone who understands both paranoia and trust on your team.
Elan - Like Haley, Elan's first big step was his feelings for Haley, and remaining committed to Haley even when temptation came along. The next big step came with the Empire of Blood and all he discovered. He's always been, and still is, the most childish of the Order, and had a lot of faith in the conventions of the genre. However his father has forced him to accept that he can't just have a happy ending on a silver platter. He's going to have to work for it, and carve his own story out rather than either follow the trends or force things to fit those trends. This maturing also means he is more aware of his abilities, so while Dungeon Crawlin Elan would have tried to sing his way out of danger, he actually uses a variety of his tools, and is probably a better example of being able to apply his power more effectively.
Belkar - His real fake epiphany was the obvious step, and definitely when he become an actual effective team player for the Order, but since then there have been hints that he is finally showing concern for anything outside his own needs. Mr Scruffy fits certainly, and his reaction to Durkon's fate has definitely shaken him up, although the full impact of that is still in development. The most important step is his pro-activeness in helping everyone survive the gate. Dungeon Crawlin Belkar probably wouldn't have done that.
Vaarsuvius - Of the entire order, I'd say the most important development hasn't yet been completed in four of them (E, B, V & D), and the last two would be the least complete. Vaarsuvius' grasp for power and what they did with it has been a tremendous catalyst for their character. Like Elan they have had to (re)learn how to effectively apply their power, but that was the immediate personal result of the IFCC deal. The less direct results have only impacted them today: The true extent of Familicide has forced them to consider the implications that Rich considers the most abhorrent of D&D, and now the IFCC calling in their debt far sooner than expected. It will be a while before all this sinks in, but their immediate confession to Roy of what happened, while incomplete due to battle, shows what looks like a complete humbling. They already sacrificed their marriage with little thought to continue this quest, so what else they may sacrifice in the desire to atone will be interesting.
Durkon - I think it's still too early to really see where Durkon now stands. We know he's changed a lot in a physical sense, but how much has his personality changed? Well one thing is he definitely has no compunctions about killing his enemies now, and he still has loyalty to those he called friend in life. I think the real display of his motives will be when the immediate danger passes and we see what his long term desires now are, and how he interacts with people outside the Order who aren't trying to kill him. I think I'll leave it at that for now, because this can be a prickly topic to speculate too deeply on.
So where does this leave the Order as a whole now? To sum it up, they've truly gelled as a team. For the most part they know where they stand with each other, they trust - or at listen to - Roy to lead them, and they are more comfortable with what they can do. This is obviously incomplete - Vaarsiuvius still has a lot of soul searching to do, and we need a clearer picture of how Durkon sees things now - but as a piece of the puzzle, I'd say it's metaphorically in hand, if not yet placed on the puzzle.
Right, with those first two categories broadly discussed, time for the fuzziest part of the puzzle:
Category 3 - Knowledge
They say knowledge is power, and I agree. The thing that prevented this situation being nipped in the bud was nobody (alive) knowing anything about phylacteries or the need to destroy them. And then Roy not knowing enough about Xykon's actual power level lead to the doozy of a first step that was 443. And Vaarsuvius concealing what happened that fateful lunchtime left the battle for Girard's gate effectively a shambles. So what knowledge is needed to be able to prevail?
Well the elephant-that-might-actually-just-be-a-planet in the room is the true nature of the Snarl: Is everyone fighting over nothing? Well we don't know enough to make an accurate judgement on this just yet. It might not be a piece of this particular puzzle, or even a puzzle piece at all.
They're off to a nice start with O-Chul's reconnaissance: Tactical data is something the Order have sorely lacked, and it's what hamstrung previous attempts at a final defeat. They also finally know the status of the phylactery, and thankfully their assumption that Team Evil would bring it with them has been validated by Redcloak concealing the real phylactery from Xykon. I'm 95% confident we will never spend any time at Xykon's astral fortress.
They could do with information on their predecessors: Why the Order of the Scribble broke up? Why their defences failed against Xykon? Learning more about this however is less about defeating Xykon and more about preparing a more balanced and effective defence against abuse of the gates in future. However it may be useful in cultivating the assistance of whomever is at Kraagor's gate that isn't trying to seize it.
Finally, the point of this thread!
Which at long last leads me to the one puzzle piece that I don't see the Order either having at hand or considering the need of: Team Evil's true motive. Something that has struck me as curious is that for a comic with such a major subtext as exploring the unfortunate implications of casually labelling sentient beings as evil, the protagonists have almost completely avoided encountering this question.
The only two examples that spring to my mind of the Order considering the question are Vaarsuvius realising the consequences of Familicide, and Roy resolving that orc camp problem in the Origins of PC's and being berated by his party for the way he resolved it. It goes a great length to establishing that if anyone is to explore the question, it would be Roy, perhaps with Vaarsuvius' insight, but as a more immediate concern that true motive would be a powerful tool in the showdown with Xykon, allowing for "conversion, division or attrition" of enemy forces, to borrow from Parson again.
So where do we stand with the question of "Always Evil"? As I've said, it's interesting that the Order have never had a chance to consider it. It's the primary driving motivation of Redcloak, and Xykon knows this to a degree, but Redcloak has successfully kept the truth from non-Goblinoid eyes and ears for thirty years. I don't think it's too hackney'd a thing for this secret to come out eventually, and at a time that would maximize the devastation to Team Evil.
So if this the final piece of the Puzzle that the Order need to consider, the next question is obvious: What turns them onto the scent? From Microcosm it's obvious they don't currently suspect Redcloak of deceiving Xykon. Haley may be more aware of how dangerous he is than Roy is, but the truth is still hidden from her.
Well short of taking a leaf out of Give My Head Peace* and the Order finding the truth about the plan in their breakfast cereal, I see one fairly obvious conduit: Right-eye's Daughter. We don't know what Right-eye told her, or what of it she understands, but if there's a free agent loose in the world that could at least get the Order onto the trail of the truth, I'd think it's her. There's also a lot to be said for Right-eye's approach of building a village peacefully. Again depending on what she knows and comprehends, she could be the link between the Order and the question of "Always Evil" thinking, and maybe the seeds of a resolution to that conflict, even if it's something that takes years or decades to come about.
So now I've written about as much about a webcomic as I did for my dissertation, what do the boards think? Are there other pieces of the puzzle I've overlooked? Could the Order either discover the truth from another source, or even win without it?
*Northern Irish BBC Sitcom