Dragonborn Pregnancy

[Ruethgar]

If a pregnant woman underwent the dragonborn ritual, would her child be transformed as well?

So, the general consensus last time I brought this up was the Bahamut would just avoid picking pregnant women or women who are destined to become pregnant. However, then I came upon the Savage Species rituals which could give the dragonborn template without Bahamut's permission.

So, would the child be transformed as well?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Dragonborn become sterile after the ritual because Bahamut doesn't want people to be born into his crusade, he only want people who genuinely wants to fight at the front lines against Tiamat's spawn. I doubt he would allow a pregnant woman to go through the ritual. As for the Savage Species rituals I am pretty sure they don't add templates, IIRC they give subtypes like [Evil], [Good], etc.

[Ruethgar]

The major rituals can completely change your race, far too costly as you lose the elite array, but still possible.

Edit: I thought they could still reproduce but they just didn't breed true. Even so, if they are sterile after, would it really matter? Wouldn't the child emerge with its mother as a young adult? Couldn't it remain within the mother? Even though she can no longer produce offspring, that doesn't mean it would kill the one already growing. Could always go with BoEF rules, but if the first option occurs those get a bit blurry.

[molten_dragon]

If a pregnant woman underwent the dragonborn ritual, would her child be transformed as well?

So, the general consensus last time I brought this up was the Bahamut would just avoid picking pregnant women or women who are destined to become pregnant. However, then I came upon the Savage Species rituals which could give the dragonborn template without Bahamut's permission.

So, would the child be transformed as well?

There's no RAW on it of course. The only rules I can think of that even sort of cover something like this are in the Book of Erotic Fantasy, which I believe has rules for what happens if you polymorph while pregnant (the fetus dies).

I would think an argument could be made for either case though. 3.5 Dragonborn are sterile, so that would be a good argument that the fetus would simply die, since the mother no longer has the organs necessary to keep it alive.

On the other hand, dragonborn do keep some of their sexual characteristics through the change (female dragonborn still have breasts, despite being sterile), so it's possible that a female dragonborn would still have a uterus and the fetus could keep growing.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Bahamut would sense the pregnancy and the ritual would fail to occur.


However, then I came upon the Savage Species rituals which could give the dragonborn template without Bahamut's permission. The template allows Bahamut to strip you off your status is you've seriously displeased him. Taking the power without his permission would fall into that category. So he'd strip you of your template immediately after it was applied.

[Ruethgar]

But from whence would the SS ritual dragonborn power come? Would it actually be a Bahamut Dragonborn, or just made to function like one with magic? If you had an UR priest performing the ritual, they might be able to pull it off without Bahamut's interjection, stealing from the divine and all.

[jedipilot24]

But from whence would the SS ritual dragonborn power come? Would it actually be a Bahamut Dragonborn, or just made to function like one with magic? If you had an UR priest performing the ritual, they might be able to pull it off without Bahamut's interjection, stealing from the divine and all.

First, which ritual are we talking about here? I'm looking through SS right now and the only one which seems like it could grant the Dragonborn template is the Wish ritual--and that's not only very expensive and very difficult, but it's also not something an Ur-Priest could do as Wish is an arcane spell.
But in any case, I figure that even if it worked, Bahamut would take it right back; as has already been noted, that's in the template.

[(Un)Inspired]

I might be remembering it wrong but doesn't the person hoping to become a dragonborn have to do some super intense fasting?

Maybe they end up having miscarriages before they go into the egg or in the egg itself.

I'm sorry if that sounds super terrible

[danzibr]

Obvious solution: Bahamut divine intervention!

[Ruethgar]

Ritual of unlearning, vitality and wish would all work.

There was something in psionics that allowed you to sustain yourself on power points, it is not eating so you are still fasting and have all the nutrients you would need for the day to avoid miscarriage. I'm sure there are other ways as well.

I'm not seeing exactly where it says he can revoke the template at he wishes, could I get a page number reference?

[jedipilot24]

Ritual of unlearning, vitality and wish would all work.

There was something in psionics that allowed you to sustain yourself on power points, it is not eating so you are still fasting and have all the nutrients you would need for the day to avoid miscarriage. I'm sure there are other ways as well.

I'm not seeing exactly where it says he can revoke the template at he wishes, could I get a page number reference?

Page 15, the Tarnished Dragonborn sidebar.

[Ruethgar]

In the case of SS ritual, Bahamut was not the one to grant the dragonborn form but rather the caster and so he technically has no "dragonborn form he granted" to take back.

[Lord Vukodlak]

In the case of SS ritual, Bahamut was not the one to grant the dragonborn form but rather the caster and so he technically has no "dragonborn form he granted" to take back.

The power comes from Bahamut end of story. Stealing something from a god doesn't make it any less the property of the god.

In any event the 3.0 material from SS doesn't exist in 3.5 so there was no reason to write in a provision for that material.

[Phelix-Mu]

So I see two situations in debate:

1.) Normal dragonborn of Bahamut: Bahamut wouldn't kill an unborn child, pretty sure. So the transformation would not begin until after the mother gave birth. If it did, it would fail.

2.) Ripoff Dragonborn: The transformation seems to render those that undergo it functionally asexual. While the elimination/alteration of the uterus would obviously end the pregnancy, any change in the female's hormone regime is also likely to result in a miscarriage at the very least (or a re-absorption if very early in the pregnancy). It's hard to construe any kind of alteration into a non-sexual creature without implying hormonal changes.

Finally, later in the pregnancy, the transformation would also likely kill or seriously injure the mother, as she'd effectively have a foreign object lodged in her abdomen following the transformation. Without a birth canal, there is no method by which the fetus can leave the mother's body, and without Bahamut protecting the lives of those undergoing the transformation, I don't see how the magic ensures the safety of those using it.

EDIT: I also tend to agree that Bahamut would not allow the ripoff method to occur. If it did occur, Bahamut would likely know and take steps to keep it from happening again.

[Ruethgar]

Is Bahamut ever officially statted out, or just his aspect? I was wondering what he could actually do against an optimized wizard intent on keeping his rip-off dragonborn.

[jedipilot24]

Is Bahamut ever officially statted out, or just his aspect? I was wondering what he could actually do against an optimized wizard intent on keeping his rip-off dragonborn.

Deities and Demigods, pg. 59-60.

And he's pretty badass.

[Phelix-Mu]

I don't know if his DaD stats go into it, but he lives in Celestia with, I think, seven gold great wyrm dragons, each of which probably has the resources of a small planet at their beck-and-call.

And, ofc, he's a god, and a dragon. So pimped, literally, to the Seven Heavens.

Only a fool would anger a god, and Bahamut is not one of the easy ones to go after.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Deities and Demigods, pg. 59-60.

And he's pretty badass.

I rather like his breath weapon of disintegration

[Mando Knight]

All I know is, if you see an old guy walking about with his own little choir of canaries, you put on your best behavior. His sister might talk smack about him, but even an optimized wizard doesn't simply start fighting a dragon with divine rank and an army of truly ancient dragon servants.

(Also, I think it's reasonable to rewrite the stats of a published major NPC to better reflect the options that the players have access to and their general optimization level... a sufficiently optimized wizard might beat a deity's published stats, but could that wizard beat a sufficiently optimized deity without becoming one itself? I don't think so...)

[Phelix-Mu]

(Also, I think it's reasonable to rewrite the stats of a published major NPC to better reflect the options that the players have access to and their general optimization level... a sufficiently optimized wizard might beat a deity's published stats, but could that wizard beat a sufficiently optimized deity without becoming one itself? I don't think so...)

Obligatory dicefreaks reference. (aaahhh, not bookmarked on this pc...fail):smallamused: