(3.P) Can you manifest while raging?

[gurgleflep]

I know you're unable to cast spells while in a rage (unless you get a specific feat), but what about manifesting? I'm wanting to make a psionic raging monstrosity - I'll be using the Cerebral Rager PrC from Hyperconscious in the mix - to send at my players in an upcoming campaign and would like to know if they're able to do so or if it requires a feat, item or something.

Oh, and this is for a gestalt campaign - low-op, but I still want him to be fearful so any tips on the build would be appreciated :smallsmile:

Edit: Totally forgot to include which edition I'm using - it's 3.PF.

[Silva Stormrage]

No you may not, but if your the DM you could just say he could. Fluff it as similar to the wilder's manifestation style.

[JusticeZero]

There is one type of Wilder in PF that can ONLY manifest while raging, which is I believe a specific loophole to achieve what you are looking for.

[gurgleflep]

No you may not, but if your the DM you could just say he could. Fluff it as similar to the wilder's manifestation style.

While that would work in a pinch, I feel bad when I do stuff like that even if it's the only way to get it to happen.


There is one type of Wilder in PF that can ONLY manifest while raging, which is I believe a specific loophole to achieve what you are looking for.

I don't know much about PF (but I do let my players take feats and such from there, classes if they prefer their set-up over the 3.5 version), so I would like to know which book it can be found in... or if it can be found on the SRD :smalltongue:

[Psyren]

There is one type of Wilder in PF that can ONLY manifest while raging, which is I believe a specific loophole to achieve what you are looking for.

That's not true - what you meant to say is that they can only surge while in a rage. They can manifest without surging just fine whether raging or not.

@ gurgle: Yes, all the current PF Wilder Surges are on the PFSRD. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/wilder)

[JusticeZero]

It is. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/wilder) Look under surge types for "Raging Surge".
@Psyren: Ah yes, you are correct. Though RAW would that mean they can only manifest using surges while raging, or that because of the wording, they could not use wild surges at all? Oddly, it doesn't specify removing or changing the manifesting restriction, and as a result, RAI is somewhat vague on that point.

[gurgleflep]

I just read through it and I'm curious - what is psychic enervation?

Other than that, I'm liking everything I see.... `cause, y'know... I understand it :smalltongue:

[Psyren]

@Psyren: Ah yes, you are correct. Though RAW would that mean they can only manifest using surges while raging, or that because of the wording, they could not use wild surges at all? Oddly, it doesn't specify removing or changing the manifesting restriction, and as a result, RAI is somewhat vague on that point.

They can rage without surging - they actually get the rage ability of a Barbarian, with the listed modifications. They can then, while the rage is active, choose to manifest powers, and if they do so, apply their wild surge to that. So the sequence will generally be rage -> manifest -> surge, if the third one is your goal.

And it does specify the removing the restriction: " In addition, you gain the ability to manifest while in a rage, unlike other manifesters."


I just read through it and I'm curious - what is psychic enervation?

Other than that, I'm liking everything I see.... `cause, y'know... I understand it :smalltongue:

Okay, let's talk Wilder for a second.

In both 3.5/PF, the iconic ability of a Wilder is to "wild surge" - while manifesting a power, they can declare that they are surging, and gain an untyped bonus to their manifester level (caster level) for that particular power. It's pretty straightforward - you tell your DM you're doing that before you resolve the power, and then s/he can apply the necessary effects. In addition, if your chosen power has an augment, you only have to pay to augment it up to your normal manifester level - if the surge is high enough to let you augment above that cap, it will also pay the excess for you. The example given in the XPH is a 3rd-level wilder using Mind Thrust - she pays the 3PP cost to augment it up to 3 ML, then the Wild Surge bumps it up one more to 4 and also pays for the 4th ML for her. In effect, she spends 3PP to deal 4d10 damage.

The drawback for this chaotic burst of power is called Psychic Enervation. Every time you surge, there is a chance the energies backfire on you - this hits you with a status effect (in 3.5, this is usually daze) and you also lose power points. The power still goes off, but if you are unlucky, you will suffer the penalties immediately afterward. In 3.5, the chance that this would happen increased by 5% for each point of your surge - thus, there was incentive to surge as little as you could get away with and still be effective (usually 1-3 ML.) More than that and your chances of enervating at least once in a fight were pretty good.

Pathfinder altered surging and enervation slightly. In PF, your chance to enervate is fixed at 15% no matter how high or low you surge, so you always want to surge as high as you can now since there's no real benefit to holding back. And the other change PF made was to change your Enervation debuff depending on which surge you pick. In the case of Raging Surge, you aren't dazed and you don't lose power points, but enervating causes you to actually take damage. (Yes, this can kill you if you're unlucky - especially if you fall unconscious, ending your rage and likely making you even weaker.)