Any way for non-Wizards to get Spellbooks?

[yaluckyboy09]

I want to play as a Savant (from the Dragon Magazine Compendium) but his selection of Arcane Spells is terrible and I wonder if there's any way for other classes to gain a Spellbook like Wizards

And if there's no way to do it in Vanilla 3.5, can someone find me/make me a Homebrew Feat for that particular function?

[herrhauptmann]

Do you want a spell book, or the wizard spell list?

What kind of class is the savant?

Mystic ranger I think gets wizard spells.
There's also sword of the arcane order feat.

[Seer_of_Heart]

The magical training feat gives you an option to get a spellbook. (Players guide to Faerun I believe)

[nyjastul69]

I'm not familiar with the class, but it seems like you want to increase the class's spell list. A spell book won't help you in doing so.

[Jack_Simth]

I want to play as a Savant (from the Dragon Magazine Compendium) but his selection of Arcane Spells is terrible and I wonder if there's any way for other classes to gain a Spellbook like Wizards

And if there's no way to do it in Vanilla 3.5, can someone find me/make me a Homebrew Feat for that particular function?

Magical Training, Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. Regional feat, 1st level only. You get three 0th level spell slots, and three 0th level spells in your spellbook. You basically act as a 1st level Wizard.

Rules Compendium (page 160) mentions that anyone who has a spellbook can add spells to the spellbook just like a Wizard does.

Now, if you're a spontaneous arcane caster, you then take Versatile Spellcaster (Races of the Dragon) to cast any spell you know (which you do for the spells you've added to the spellbook) and can spontaneously cast the spells you added to your spellbook (and, potentially, one level higher than you could normally cast).

So, theoretically, that human Sorcerer-1 who took Magical Training to get a usable spellbook and Versatile Spellcaster can scribe a scroll of a second level spell into a spellbook, then expend two 1st level spell slots to cast it. At 4th, a 3rd level spell can be cast. At 6th, a 4th level spell. And so on.

Two feats to turn a Sorcerer into a fully spontaneous Wizard... minus the bonus feats, that is. This technically works for any arcane caster.

[Psyren]

It doesn't matter what spells you add to it, Savants can only prepare (and cast) from the Savant list. And that list is unfortunately pretty awful, though they are at least capable of casting both arcane and divine spells.

They do get all skills as class skills so you can use UMD. They also get a small amount of sneak attack. Basically they're the prototype for the Factotum and Chameleon.

[unseenmage]

Magical Training, Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. Regional feat, 1st level only. You get three 0th level spell slots, and three 0th level spells in your spellbook. You basically act as a 1st level Wizard.

Rules Compendium (page 160) mentions that anyone who has a spellbook can add spells to the spellbook just like a Wizard does.

Now, if you're a spontaneous arcane caster, you then take Versatile Spellcaster (Races of the Dragon) to cast any spell you know (which you do for the spells you've added to the spellbook) and can spontaneously cast the spells you added to your spellbook (and, potentially, one level higher than you could normally cast).

So, theoretically, that human Sorcerer-1 who took Magical Training to get a usable spellbook and Versatile Spellcaster can scribe a scroll of a second level spell into a spellbook, then expend two 1st level spell slots to cast it. At 4th, a 3rd level spell can be cast. At 6th, a 4th level spell. And so on.

Two feats to turn a Sorcerer into a fully spontaneous Wizard... minus the bonus feats, that is. This technically works for any arcane caster.

Would this work for something that isn't a Sorcerer? Say a Construct or Undead whose creator gets to choose it's feats? If not is there another feat that will give it the Spellcasting it needs to make this work?

[Jack_Simth]

Would this work for something that isn't a Sorcerer? Say a Construct or Undead whose creator gets to choose it's feats? If not is there another feat that will give it the Spellcasting it needs to make this work?
You still need the spell slots to power the beast.

That said, yes, there is a set of feats that, if you're willing to burn ENOUGH feats (around 15-30 of them), would let you cast a small number of high-level spells without any actual levels in a spellcasting class... but you'd be stuck at caster level 5, at best, with no actual spellcasting progression.

You need:
Magical Training (Sorcerer type necessary, here - regional feat, 1st level only, hard to get on a non-human non-elf non-half-elf)
Heighten Spell
Versatile Spellcaster
Sanctum Spell (Tome and Blood)
Extra Slot (Complete Arcane)
Extra Spell (Complete Arcane)
Earth Spell (Races of Stone) speeds things up, but isn't strictly required.
Practised Spellcaster gets your caster level up by 4 (I'm assuming you've got at least 5 hit dice, here).

How it works:
1) Magical Training gets you three 0th level spell slots, and two spontaneous spells known... at 0th.
2) Versatile Spellcaster lets you use two of those 0th level spell slots to cast a 1st level spell.
3) Heighten Spell lets you actually cast a spell that is that level for all purposes.
4) Sanctum Spell makes it count as a 2nd level spell.
5) Being able to cast 2nd level spells (and you really do have two to choose from) means that you can get 1st level spell slots via Extra Slot.
6) Two Copies of Extra Slot mean you have two 1st level spell slots now... which lets you start over from 2, boosting all the spell level numbers by 1, up until you're working with 9th level spell slots.
7) Extra Spell grants you actual, useful spells known.
8) Practised Spellcaster gets your caster level up from 1 to 5.

Earth Spell speeds things up by adding an extra spell level at each iteration. It costs two extra feats, but saves you quite a few. It's race-specific, although there is a short PrC (Stoneblessed) that lets you qualify.

Oh yes, and you wouldn't be casting as a Wizard anymore... and you had to take the Sorcerer style Magical Training to do it, and can't pull the trick for turning a Sorcerer into a Wizard.

[unseenmage]

You still need the spell slots to power the beast.

That said, yes, there is a set of feats that, if you're willing to burn ENOUGH feats (around 15-30 of them), would let you cast a small number of high-level spells without any actual levels in a spellcasting class... but you'd be stuck at caster level 5, at best, with no actual spellcasting progression.

You need:
Magical Training (Sorcerer type necessary, here - regional feat, 1st level only, hard to get on a non-human non-elf non-half-elf)
Heighten Spell
Versatile Spellcaster
Sanctum Spell (Tome and Blood)
Extra Slot (Complete Arcane)
Extra Spell (Complete Arcane)
Earth Spell (Races of Stone) speeds things up, but isn't strictly required.
Practised Spellcaster gets your caster level up by 4 (I'm assuming you've got at least 5 hit dice, here).

How it works:
1) Magical Training gets you three 0th level spell slots, and two spontaneous spells known... at 0th.
2) Versatile Spellcaster lets you use two of those 0th level spell slots to cast a 1st level spell.
3) Heighten Spell lets you actually cast a spell that is that level for all purposes.
4) Sanctum Spell makes it count as a 2nd level spell.
5) Being able to cast 2nd level spells (and you really do have two to choose from) means that you can get 1st level spell slots via Extra Slot.
6) Two Copies of Extra Slot mean you have two 1st level spell slots now... which lets you start over from 2, boosting all the spell level numbers by 1, up until you're working with 9th level spell slots.
7) Extra Spell grants you actual, useful spells known.
8) Practised Spellcaster gets your caster level up from 1 to 5.

Earth Spell speeds things up by adding an extra spell level at each iteration. It costs two extra feats, but saves you quite a few. It's race-specific, although there is a short PrC (Stoneblessed) that lets you qualify.

Oh yes, and you wouldn't be casting as a Wizard anymore... and you had to take the Sorcerer style Magical Training to do it, and can't pull the trick for turning a Sorcerer into a Wizard.

One more question and then I promise I'll stop derailing your thread yaluckyboy09, I just don't know how to ask it in a thread of it's own without copypasta-ing Jack_Simth's entire last two responses.

Which is more cheesey in you opinion? Tacking on this chain of feats or just starting with a 1HD Construct and having it train until it gains actual Spellcasting levels?
For the sake of comparison we'll assume the same 1 HD Effigy of a humanoid in both cases. (With enough gp you can put whatever feats you want into a Construct with the right rules interpretation.)

[Jack_Simth]

Which is more cheesey in you opinion? Tacking on this chain of feats or just starting with a 1HD Construct and having it train until it gains actual Spellcasting levels?
For the sake of comparison we'll assume the same 1 HD Effigy of a humanoid in both cases. (With enough gp you can put whatever feats you want into a Construct with the right rules interpretation.)
I retired cheesy for internal use in reference to optimization levels in my head a while back. I also can't really give you an answer that's actually useful if I simply answer your question. It's relative, you see.

It doesn't matter which is cheesier: It only matters what is appropriate at your gaming table. As I am not at your gaming table, I am not in a position to make the judgement call you're after.

If you already have the operational interpretation that you can add arbitrary feats to your construct for some specified price, then in a sense, the feat method is better: Given that, full casting via extreme feat expenditure is strict RAW. On the other hand, if you've got an operational interpretation that you can feasibly add class levels to your construct, then in a sense, that one is better: It has easier measurements for CR (and thus, it's easier for the DM to figure out what encounter is appropriate for the party), it takes much less explanation if someone asks how it works, and you have a better-scaling caster level.

But the question really needs to be what is more appropriate for the gaming table in question, and I really can't help you with that.

[unseenmage]

I retired cheesy for internal use in reference to optimization levels in my head a while back. I also can't really give you an answer that's actually useful if I simply answer your question. It's relative, you see.

It doesn't matter which is cheesier: It only matters what is appropriate at your gaming table. As I am not at your gaming table, I am not in a position to make the judgement call you're after.

If you already have the operational interpretation that you can add arbitrary feats to your construct for some specified price, then in a sense, the feat method is better: Given that, full casting via extreme feat expenditure is strict RAW. On the other hand, if you've got an operational interpretation that you can feasibly add class levels to your construct, then in a sense, that one is better: It has easier measurements for CR (and thus, it's easier for the DM to figure out what encounter is appropriate for the party), it takes much less explanation if someone asks how it works, and you have a better-scaling caster level.

But the question really needs to be what is more appropriate for the gaming table in question, and I really can't help you with that.

A good solid answer. And I appreciate the forethought that went into it. Thank you, sincerely.

At our table for now I have the precedent to buy feats. I'll discuss what you've mentioned with the DM and try to get his bead on the training.

[yaluckyboy09]

Magical Training, Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. Regional feat, 1st level only. You get three 0th level spell slots, and three 0th level spells in your spellbook. You basically act as a 1st level Wizard.

Rules Compendium (page 160) mentions that anyone who has a spellbook can add spells to the spellbook just like a Wizard does.

Now, if you're a spontaneous arcane caster, you then take Versatile Spellcaster (Races of the Dragon) to cast any spell you know (which you do for the spells you've added to the spellbook) and can spontaneously cast the spells you added to your spellbook (and, potentially, one level higher than you could normally cast).

So, theoretically, that human Sorcerer-1 who took Magical Training to get a usable spellbook and Versatile Spellcaster can scribe a scroll of a second level spell into a spellbook, then expend two 1st level spell slots to cast it. At 4th, a 3rd level spell can be cast. At 6th, a 4th level spell. And so on.

Two feats to turn a Sorcerer into a fully spontaneous Wizard... minus the bonus feats, that is. This technically works for any arcane caster.

I read up on that Feat, it only gives me access to those three Cantrips and says nothing about "Gaining" a Spellbook. The Savant doesn't get a Spellbook to prepare his spells

Maybe I should have been a bit more specific...

The Savant gains access to Arcane Spells at Level 5 and Divine Spells at Level 10. But his selection of Arcane Spells is terrible.

What I'm trying to find is a way to add more spells to his Spell list and I figured that obtaining a Spellbook would help me in that regard

[Jack_Simth]

I read up on that Feat, it only gives me access to those three Cantrips and says nothing about "Gaining" a Spellbook. The Savant doesn't get a Spellbook to prepare his spells

*Checks*

Ah, that's the trouble. Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (3.0) vs. The Player's Guide to Faerun (3.5).

If you choose to cast spells as a wizard, the DC for saves against your spells is 10 + your Int modifier. You have a spellbook with three 0-level spells of your choice from the sorcerer/wizard list. You prepare your spells exactly as a wizard does.(emphasis added)

[Yuki Akuma]

What I'm trying to find is a way to add more spells to his Spell list and I figured that obtaining a Spellbook would help me in that regard

Why would it?

[Jack_Simth]

Why would it?
The idea being the ability to scribe Wizard spells and cast them later.

[Samalpetey]

Don't you need a high enough CL to cast spells of a certain level though? Like CL 3 for level two spells, CL 5 for level three etc

[Jack_Simth]

Don't you need a high enough CL to cast spells of a certain level though? Like CL 3 for level two spells, CL 5 for level three etc
Various statements within the rules assume that's the case... but curiously enough, it's never actually said. Likewise, it's quite possible to get a caster level of 9 while casting ninth level spells (with, say, an Ur-Priest). With a little idiocy, you can be casting 4th level spells with a caster level of 2 (Wizard-5/Bard-1/Rogue-4/Sublime Chord-1. Stack the Sublime Chord caster level with the Bard level, not the Wizard levels). If you get the Mage Slayer line of feats, you can really tank your caster level... but nothing actually specifies that a low caster level prevents you from casting spells.

Edit: It's largely irrelevant to the OP, however, as the OP will have a decent caster level, just needs a trick for expanding the spell list.

[yaluckyboy09]

*Checks*

Ah, that's the trouble. Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (3.0) vs. The Player's Guide to Faerun (3.5).
(emphasis added)

THANK YOU!!! This is exactly what I'm looking for!

Thank you so much, I wanted to be able to have a much better spell selection and be able to scribe spells I find into my Spellbook.

This is perfect:smallbiggrin:

[ShurikVch]

Don't you need a high enough CL to cast spells of a certain level though? Like CL 3 for level two spells, CL 5 for level three etc
Nope.
It varies.
Sorcerer will get his level two spells at CL 4, level three at CL 6 and so on.
On the other hand, Divine Crusader and Ur-priest gain their level two spells at CL 2, level three at CL 3 and level nine at CL 9!

[Yuki Akuma]

On the other hand, Divine Crusader and Ur-priest gain their level two spells at CL 2, level three at CL 3 and level nine at CL 9!

Well, the Ur-Priest has pretty weird CLs (because his CL isn't entirely tied to his class level), and the Divine Crusader knows nine spells so they're pretty weird as well.

[ShurikVch]

... and the Divine Crusader knows nine spells so they're pretty weird as well.
It's just until our Divine Crusader go Sovereign Speaker. :smallwink:
90 domain spells total! :smallcool:
Dips in Contemplative, Divine Agent, and Divine Disciple will increase it up to 117 spells :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: