Wizard 1 / Mystic Ranger x

[Vistra]

Hey guys, I've got another build in mind that is a archer gish character.

My idea was to take Mystic Ranger, and pick up the feat Sword of the Arcane Order. This would allow me to cast wizard spells in my mystic ranger slot (providing I have access to a wizard spellbook).

Then with a simple 1 level dip in Wizard I could gain my spellbook (and possibly specialize or focus specialize). So from 4th level on I could start preparing wizard spells.

Also if I take one level in Wizard my Wizard casting level is treated as the sum of my Ranger / Wizard levels.

So could I go Wizard 1 / Mystic Ranger 19, and have FULL caster progression (level 9 spells), FULL BAB, great skills, great hit die......

Whats not to love?......unless i'm missing something, which I have a feeling I may be....

Edit: Ok so I think my spells would be capped at 5th level. So maybe a PrC would be in order at level 10. Something that can keep up my Wizard progression such as Abjurant Champ?

I could take Abjurant Champ and select to progress my wizard spells gaining me access to lvl 9 spells?

[Snowbluff]

You don't need Wizard to have spell book. If you don't just buy one, you can take Magical Training to grab it.

[Vistra]

You don't need Wizard to have spell book. If you don't just buy one, you can take Magical Training to grab it.

Well that wizard dip wasn't only for the spellbook but also for this benefit

"If you also have levels in wizard, your wizard caster level
is treated as the sum of your wizard, paladin, and ranger class
levels."

Also I could trade scribe scroll for a bonus feat, and wouldn't I need a level in wizard to keep up my spell progression with a PrC?

[Snowbluff]

Well that wizard dip wasn't only for the spellbook but also for this benefit

"If you also have levels in wizard, your wizard caster level
is treated as the sum of your wizard, paladin, and ranger class
levels." Oh, I see. No, you would not get ninth level spells. It just affects numerical bonuses.


Also I could trade scribe scroll for a bonus feat, and wouldn't I need a level in wizard to keep up my spell progression with a PrC?
It would only slow your casting progression in actuality.

If you want to cheese easy ninths, you can play a DMM: Heighten Cleric, Kobold Dragon with the Dragonblood Cleric level, or an Elven Generalist Wizard with Alacritous Cogitation, Versatile Spellcaster, etc.

[Vistra]

Oh, I see. No, you would not get ninth level spells. It just affects numerical bonuses.

It would only slow your casting progression in actuality.

If you want to cheese easy ninths, you can play a DMM: Heighten Cleric, Kobold Dragon with the Dragonblood Cleric level, or an Elven Generalist Wizard with Alacritous Cogitation, Versatile Spellcaster, etc.

Not sure what your refearing to about slowing my casting progression? My wizard caster level is counted as the sum of my Wizard and Mystic Ranger level. Therefor at lvl 11 (1 Wizard / 10 Ranger) I would have a CL of an 11th lvl Wizard.

I'm not sure what the 2nd part of your post has to do with a mystic ranger build.

[Snowbluff]

Not sure what your refearing to about slowing my casting progression? My wizard caster level is counted as the sum of my Wizard and Mystic Ranger level. Therefor at lvl 11 (1 Wizard / 10 Ranger) I would have a CL of an 11th lvl Wizard.
Your CL is 11, your effective level for slots is 1.


I'm not sure what the 2nd part of your post has to do with a mystic ranger build.

You wanted ninth level spells, and I posted some easy tricks.

Also, Divine Crusaders and Ur Priests.

[Vistra]

So at level 11 (1 wizard / 10 Mystic Ranger) how many spells known would I have? All of the Ranger spells, i'm assuming? And how many wizard spells?

How many slots would I have assuming a wisdom of 18?

[Snowbluff]

So at level 11 (1 wizard / 10 Mystic Ranger) how many spells known would I have? All of the Ranger spells, i'm assuming? And how many wizard spells? All of the ranger spells (Including the ones added by Mystic Ranger), all wizard cantrips, and Int+3 first level wizard spell.


How many slots would I have assuming a wisdom of 18?
4 0th, 5 1st, 4 2nd, 4 3rd, 3 4th, 2 5th

[Vistra]

i'm scratching my head, trying to determine why I am not able to select spells from the wizard spell list all through my ranger levels, seeing as how I can add wizard spells to my ranger spell slots and my wizard CL is effectively my character level.

If what your saying is true. Then what (if any) is the benefit of this feat?

[Snowbluff]

i'm scratching my head, trying to determine why I am not able to select spells from the wizard spell list all through my ranger levels, seeing as how I can add wizard spells to my ranger spell slots and my wizard CL is effectively my character level.
You can add spells to your spellbook by copying from scrolls, btw.


If what your saying is true. Then what (if any) is the benefit of this feat?

You can cast and prepare Wizard spells using your Ranger slots. It's great if you have a spellbook from another source like a feat or a buddy Wizard. Mystic Rangers are effectively full BaB wizards for the first 10 levels with Sword of the Arcane Order.

[Vistra]

You can add spells to your spellbook by copying from scrolls, btw.


You can cast and prepare Wizard spells using your Ranger slots. It's great if you have a spellbook from another source like a feat or a buddy Wizard. Mystic Rangers are effectively full BaB wizards for the first 10 levels with Sword of the Arcane Order.

Bah, i'm getting really confused....

Ok you say I can cast and prepare Wizard spells using your Ranger slots. But you say I can only cast level one wizard spells? That doesn't seem that great?

Also if I took 1 dip in Wizard I would have his spellbook.

Whats the sense of having a Wizard Caster level of 10 if I can't cast anything beyond 1st level?

[Coppertop]

Because 1st level wizard spells have some great utility, and the increased CL keeps them competitive.

e.g. Your Mage armor can stay up all day :smallbiggrin:

[Vistra]

Ok so do I just need a source to copy 5th level wizard spells into my spellbook?

We have another wizard in our party. Could I copy his spells into my spellbook and then cast 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th level wizard spells?

[Snowbluff]

Ok so do I just need a source to copy 5th level wizard spells into my spellbook?

We have another wizard in our party. Could I copy his spells into my spellbook and then cast 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th level wizard spells?

Yep. :smallsmile:

[Vistra]

Ahh, I think I get it...I get the ability to cast Wizard spells, I just have to find those spells and copy them into my spellbook....

So what happenes after my Ranger spells stop progressing? If I keep taking Ranger spells, my Wizard CL keep raising correct? I just need to find an alternate source of spell progression?

What about Abjurant champion? Any suggestions for spell progression PrC's that would be good for an Archer type character?

Edit: I wonder if the spells I cast would be Divine, Arcane, or a mix?

[Snowbluff]

Ahh, I think I get it...I get the ability to cast Wizard spells, I just have to find those spells and copy them into my spellbook....

So what happenes after my Ranger spells stop progressing? If I keep taking Ranger spells, my Wizard CL keep raising correct? I just need to find an alternate source of spell progression?

What about Abjurant champion? Any suggestions for spell progression PrC's that would be good for an Archer type character? You keep getting CL for Ranger and Wizard (which you probably do not have) as you level ranger.

Getting into a PrC would be good. Arcane Archer 2 gives imbue arrow, which I love. Any number of gish classes would provide a decent benefit.


Edit: I wonder if the spells I cast would be Divine, Arcane, or a mix?
Nobody knows~

I say the the wizard spells you cast count as Arcane, but ask your DM. If he says ranger counts as an arcane caster in this instance, I would suggest Swiftblade.

[Vistra]

Ok great. So would a good way of doing this build be as simple as

Mystic Ranger 1 - Feat
Wizard 1 - Combat Wizard (Gnome Illusionist Substitution Levels?) - Feat
Mystic Ranger 2 - Gnome Favored Enemy
Mystic Ranger 3 - Rapid Shot - Feat
Mystic Ranger 4 - Endurance
Mystic Ranger 5
Mystic Ranger 6 - Feat
Mystic Ranger 7 - Manyshot - Woodland Stride
Mystic Ranger 8 - 2nd Favored Enemy - Swift Tracker
Mystic Ranger 9 - Evasion
Mystic Ranger 10

Is this how it should be done? I'm probably going to take archery related feats, unless you have any ideas that stand out for this build?

[Snowbluff]

I would advice against the Wizard level, but the lowered spell level for those spells is good. I would swap out your Familiar for the Brief Figment ACF in PHB2, and grab Obtain Familiar if you want to keep it.

Don't forget to take Sword of the Arcane Order.

[Vistra]

What is the bad part about 1 level of wizard aside from losing some HP, Skills, and BAB?

I gain a free spellbook, a free feat, and the gnome sub level.

[Snowbluff]

What is the bad part about 1 level of wizard aside from losing some HP, Skills, and BAB?

I gain a free spellbook, a free feat, and the gnome sub level.

It also moves back your spell progression, but that doesn't matter that point. Like I said, if it weren't for the ACFs, I would say no. :smalltongue:

[Vistra]

This build seems like it'll be pretty MAD. What do you recommend for stat distribution?

I only will need at least a 15 wisdom correct? Seeing as how my highest level Ranger spell will be 5th?

As for Int, I'll have the ability (if I take an PrC that advances wizard spells) to cast 9th level spells, so will I eventually want at least a 19 in Int?

[Chronos]

In case it's not clear, you have two different sets of spellcasting. You have wizard spellcasting, and mystic ranger spellcasting. With only one level of wizard, your wizard spellcasting would be limited to first-level spells (though they would last longer, have a longer range, possibly do more damage, etc., due to the higher caster level). With the mystic ranger spellcasting, you have access to higher level spells, up to 5th level at class level 10. High-level spells are better than low-level spells, and taking that level of wizard is delaying your progression in ranger, the class that's giving you the higher-level spells, which is why Snowbluff is recommending against it.

After you get to Mystic Ranger 10, with or without the wizard level, you'll slow down considerably. You can keep on taking levels of mystic ranger, or a prestige class that advances mystic ranger spellcasting, which will give you a few more spell slots, but mystic ranger casting will never get you spells of a level higher than 5. If you took wizard levels, or a class that advances wizard, you'd be playing catch-up, and still wouldn't get beyond fifth-level spells by the time you reached 20. You can either take a class that gives you little or no spellcasting but gives you something else useful, such as Swiftblade or a Tome of Battle class, or you could take a prestige class that has its own spell progression, such as Divine Crusader.

EDIT:

As for Int, I'll have the ability (if I take an PrC that advances wizard spells) to cast 9th level spells, so will I eventually want at least a 19 in Int?
This is not correct. Your levels in Mystic Ranger will not progress your wizard casting. They'll increase your caster level, but will not give you any more spells, nor higher-level spells.

[Ashes]

One thing I see missing from this thread which is of prime importance, is a clear definition of CL. Caster Level is NOT equal to effective Wizard level. Caster level is strictly defined as your bonus with regard to Caster level checks, spell resistance and a few other things. It has nothing to do with the level of spells you are able to cast. This is why you'd only be able to cast 1st level spells with the build you suggested.

If you already know this, I apologize for writing it.

[Vistra]

alright now i'm confused once again.....

I was under the impression that as long as I had access to a know spell (party wizards spellbook), I could fill any ranger spell slot up to 5th level with an equal level wizard spell?

For example I could copy teleport (a 5th lvl wizard spell) into my spellbook and then put teleport into a 5th level Mystic Ranger spell slot?

So if i'm wrong, is there any way for this build to gain wizard spells higher then 1st level?

And if not can anyone recommend a good Archer Gish build?

[GreenETC]

alright now i'm confused once again.....

I was under the impression that as long as I had access to a know spell (party wizards spellbook), I could fill any ranger spell slot up to 5th level with an equal level wizard spell?

For example I could copy teleport (a 5th lvl wizard spell) into my spellbook and then put teleport into a 5th level Mystic Ranger spell slot?
This si exactly how it works. But the Teleport has your Ranger CL, which is different than your Wizard CL. If you want to use that Wizard CL, you have to do it in your Wizard slots, which you only have up to level 1. You can put spells from scrolls into your spellbook, allowing you to cast more Wizard spells from your Ranger slots, but you never have higher level Wizard slots.

So yeah, you only get 5th level spells. This is why they are recommending against it, because you have no way to get yourself above that. Sure, that gives you a lot of good spells, but you could just go full Mystic Ranger and take a feat or buy a spellbook.

Of course, they are forgetting about the fact that you can use the Shooting Star Ranger substitution levels from Champions of Valor, which has this ability:

Improved Spellcasting (Ex): When casting ranger spells, a Shooting Star can treat her caster level as equal to one-half her ranger level +2. If she also has arcane spellcasting ability from another class, she can add her caster level from that class to this value to determine her caster level.
Which means that your Ranger CL is equal to 1/2 your Ranger level + your Wizard CL (1+Ranger levels) + 2, or (Rangerx1.5)+3, meaning you will have a CL through the roof, easily surpassing your own HD.

[Vistra]

Alright, so the only drawback of taking 1 dip in wizard is that it hurts my ranger spell progression for one level? I can make up for this at later levels?

[Captnq]

Looks like you need some clarifications on exactly what a Mystic Ranger can do. Where did I put that file...? Ah. Here it is. *blows some dust off a pdf* Never did quite finish it. Maybe I'll get back around to it some day.

HERE (http://www.uploadmb.com/dw.php?id=1380336827).

I suggest Skipping to the section on SWORD OF THE ARCANE ORDER [General] feat and ask your DM to answer the four problems. It will dramatically alter how you build your PC.

Also, sounds like you are talking about The Magic Addict. It's the one section I did work on. Should have some useful tips. Both are near the end.

Oh, and look up in Dragon Mag about that ACF where you give up your Familiar and scribe scroll feat so you can keep your spellbook in your head. A nice use of a 1 level wizard dip. No spellbook for your Mystic ranger.

[Vistra]

Looks like you need some clarifications on exactly what a Mystic Ranger can do. Where did I put that file...? Ah. Here it is. *blows some dust off a pdf* Never did quite finish it. Maybe I'll get back around to it some day.

HERE (http://www.uploadmb.com/dw.php?id=1380336827).

I suggest Skipping to the section on SWORD OF THE ARCANE ORDER [General] feat and ask your DM to answer the four problems. It will dramatically alter how you build your PC.

Also, sounds like you are talking about The Magic Addict. It's the one section I did work on. Should have some useful tips. Both are near the end.

Oh, and look up in Dragon Mag about that ACF where you give up your Familiar and scribe scroll feat so you can keep your spellbook in your head. A nice use of a 1 level wizard dip. No spellbook for your Mystic ranger.

Not working? I can't see anything after I copy and paste

[Captnq]

Not working? I can't see anything after I copy and paste

Click on the underlined HERE (http://www.uploadmb.com/dw.php?id=1380336827)..

It will open an upload site.

Click Download file.

Wait

click "click here to Download the file now" if it doesn't start right away, depending on your browser.

[Snowbluff]

Of course, they are forgetting about the fact that you can use the Shooting Star Ranger substitution levels from Champions of Valor, which has this ability:


Can use? Shooting Star is a requirement. :smalltongue:

[Captnq]

Can use? Shooting Star is a requirement. :smalltongue:

Uhhhh... No.

Mystic Ranger is a base class from Dragon Magazine.

Shooting Star is useless for Mystic Ranger since you lose the very thing you have to give up to take advantage of shooting star.

You are thinking of The Sword of the Arcane Order FEAT.

[Chronos]

Let's say you're a wizard 1/mystic ranger 10, with SotAO. You can cast spells as a ranger or as a wizard. When you cast spells as a wizard, you have only first-level spells to choose from, because you're only a first-level wizard, and the spells can only be from the wizard list. This is pretty pathetic, for an 11th-level character. When you cast spells as a ranger, you have spells of up to 5th level to choose from, and those spells can be from the wizard list or from the ranger list. This is good, because 5th level spells are only a little behind the curve for an 11th level character. If you didn't have the wizard level, then you'd be able to cast those 5th level spells at character level 10, which is even better: That's as good as any class gets.

Just because you can cast spells from the wizard list does not mean that you're casting them as a wizard. You're a ranger, and you are casting as a ranger. You're just a ranger that has a lot more variety of spells to choose from than most rangers do. Taking a level of wizard does nothing for you, except let you do some things you could already do anyway.

[Vistra]

Let's say you're a wizard 1/mystic ranger 10, with SotAO. You can cast spells as a ranger or as a wizard. When you cast spells as a wizard, you have only first-level spells to choose from, because you're only a first-level wizard, and the spells can only be from the wizard list. This is pretty pathetic, for an 11th-level character. When you cast spells as a ranger, you have spells of up to 5th level to choose from, and those spells can be from the wizard list or from the ranger list. This is good, because 5th level spells are only a little behind the curve for an 11th level character. If you didn't have the wizard level, then you'd be able to cast those 5th level spells at character level 10, which is even better: That's as good as any class gets.

Just because you can cast spells from the wizard list does not mean that you're casting them as a wizard. You're a ranger, and you are casting as a ranger. You're just a ranger that has a lot more variety of spells to choose from than most rangers do. Taking a level of wizard does nothing for you, except let you do some things you could already do anyway.

Ok so the wording in the feats says

"You can use your paladin and ranger spell slots to prepare wizard spells".

Well how do I gain these wizard spells? At level 10 mystic ranger i'll have 5 spell slots. How do I prepare wizard spells in say my 5th level slot?

[Captnq]

Let's say you're a wizard 1/mystic ranger 10,
Just because you can cast spells from the wizard list does not mean that you're casting them as a wizard. You're a ranger, and you are casting as a ranger. You're just a ranger that has a lot more variety of spells to choose from than most rangers do. Taking a level of wizard does nothing for you, except let you do some things you could already do anyway.

Ya know, wish people would just read the PDF. It's alot more complicated then what most people think. Here. I'll post the important parts.

SWORD OF THE ARCANE ORDER [General]

- Champions of Valor (3.5)
Description: Members of your military order have a special connection with arcane magic.
Prerequisites: Paladin 4th of Azuth or Mystra, or ranger 4th of Mystra; member of the Knights of the Mystic Fire , the Order of the Shooting Star, or the Swords of the High One.
Benefit: You can use your paladin and ranger spell slots to prepare wizard spells. You must have a minimum Intelligence score of 10 + the spell’s level to prepare it, and the save DC of the spell is equal to 10 + your Int modifier (as if you were a wizard). These wizard spells can be taken either from your spellbook (if you have one) or from another character’s spellbook (though in the latter case you must decipher the writing in the book and succeed on a Spellcraft check to prepare the spell, just as a wizard using a borrowed spellbook; see Wizard Spells and Borrowed Spellbooks, page 178 of the Player’s Handbook, for details). If you also have levels in wizard, your wizard caster level is treated as the sum of your wizard, paladin, and ranger class levels.
Special: Azuth has a paladin order called the Swords of the High One, Mystra has a paladin order called the Knights of the Mystic Fire and a closely allied group of rangers called the Order of the Shooting Star. Members of all three of these groups can select this feat as long as they are at least 4th level in their respective order’s primary class.

Also important is the part from the feat summary table in Champions of Valor. “Use paladin or ranger spell slots to prepare wizard spells that you know; add paladin and ranger class levels to your wizard level to determine your wizard caster level.” (Emphasis is the editor’s)


Problem #1
Does This Feat Give You Access To Wizard Spells?
Now, at first glance, the answer would seem obvious. If you can memorize wizard spells, you clearly have access to the spell list. This would be the RAW reading of the feat. It’s poorly worded, but clearly, you can read the spells from other spellbooks, so you must be able to cast them, ergo, you have access to the wizard spell list.
That’s why I included the section from the feat summary table. The feat summary has additional words the feat itself does not, “…wizard spells that you know.” Now this would imply that the intension of the feat was to allow you to use the wizard spell list that you get from a level of wizard and memorize those spells in your ranger spell slots.
However, information under the feat summary table is not valid. WotC has specifically stated that only the information written under a specific feat pertains to that feat. The information from the table is informative, but circumstantial and cannot be used in game. So we have the problem of which way to read it. Does it give a ranger access to the wizard spell list, or must he take at least one level of wizard to have access to the spells so he can have access to the list, and thus memorize wizard spells in his ranger spell slots.
If it is the first way (RAW), then a level of wizard is not needed. You can learn any wizard spell, use magic items that require access to the wizard spell list, and all the other perks that go with it. If it is the second way (RAI), then you need to buy at least one level of wizard to use this feat, or it is worthless. However, once you have that level, you do not need to buy any more levels.
For example, if you were a mystic ranger 4th/wizard 1st, then you can memorize second level wizard spells in your 2nd level mystic ranger spell slots, without being a 3rd level wizard. Once you have the first level of wizard you “know” all spells on the list. You just need to get a copy in a spellbook. Once you have a copy, you can memorize it.
Which one is correct? That is up to your DM to choose. It could go either way, but the editor has a leaning towards the second (RAI) interpretation. The reason will be evident in the answer to the next question.

Problem #2
Are Wizards Spells Cast From Ranger Slots Arcane Or Divine?
Rangers are divine spellcasters. Wizards are arcane spellcasters. If you have a wizard spell in an ranger spell slot, which one it is? I believe the answer depends on if you think the ranger needs to take a level of wizard to have access to wizard spells.
If you believe the ranger does not need to take a level of wizard, then effectively you are giving the mystic ranger access to the wizard spell list. This means that despite the fact that the spell requires you to have intelligence to cast the spell, you are still just casting the spell using ranger spell slots. Ergo, the spell has to be divine.
If you believe that the ranger has to take a level of wizard, then effectively the ranger is loaning spell slots to the wizard class. If you are giving spell slots to the wizard class, then the spells remain arcane. As evidence that this is the intent of the feat is that it specifically states that all wizard spells are cast off of intelligence and not off of wisdom.
So what’s the difference? It’s all just semantics, right? Well, the difference in divine verses arcane affects how you build your character. It determines if you need to spend a level on wizard or not. When you qualify for certain PrCs. Weird spell combinations. Frankly, being able to convert wizard spells into divine spells opens up a whole world of opportunity, the least of which is, no arcane spell failure. So which one is it? Again, depends on how you answer the first question.

Problem #3
What Level Should You Be To Take This Feat?
The feat clearly says that you need to be a fourth level ranger to take it. That’s RAW, plain and simple. But why is it fourth? It’s fourth because the base ranger class doesn’t get spells before fourth level. The mystic ranger gets spells at first level. So, you could make a case for being able to learn this feat at first.
Is that balanced? Well, to capitalize on a number of builds, you would have to be a fourth level ranger anyways. So what’s the point? Well, you only get feats at 1st, 3rd and 6th level. So that means that you either need a DM who allows retraining, you need to take endurance at 3rd level and then when you get endurance at 4th level you automatically get to retrain your 3rd level feat, or you have to suck it up and take it at 6th level. Allowing the feat to be available at 1st level makes such feat juggling unnecessary and simplifies things. Talk it over with your DM to determine his preference. All the builds here will be based on requiring the feat at 4th.

Problem #4
What Gods Should be Allowed For This Feat?
By RAW, you must worship either Mystra and Azuth to get this feat. However, not everyone plays in Forgotten Realms. It is suggested that you allow anyone who worships a god of magic to take this feat.



Now, why play a Mystic Theurge with SotAO? Check out the Magic Addict.

The magic addict doesn’t have the best spell selection in the world, but he does have the highest caster level in the world. The magic addict depends on a combination of the feats Sword of the Arcane Order and Practiced Spellcaster and how it interacts with certain PrCs.
The first one is the easiest, Mystic Theurge. Once you have Mystic Ranger: 4, Wizard: 1 and SotAO feat, you are casting 2nd level divine and arcane spells. A few skills and you qualify for Mystic Theurge. Each level adds one to mystic ranger and wizard. And with each level, you add 2 total to your wizard caster level, but only one to your ranger caster level. So when you add three levels of Mystic Theurge, you can use Practiced Spellcaster to give yourself +4 levels of caster level for ranger. Which, also adds to your wizard level.
The second PrC is Sublime Chord. Now, you can’t take it before you reach 11th level, unfortunately. The skill requirements simply cannot be gotten around. Plus, you also need bardic music ability. So that means you need to take a level of bard. I’m sure there are other ways, but this is the easiest and it helps with other requirements later. Now sublime chord gives you 4th through 9th level bard and sorcerer spells as a spontaneous arcane spellcaster. You also pick an arcane spellcaster class (wizard) and add it’s caster level to your sublime chord caster level, and vice versa. Now, the problem is, your Sublime Chord spells are based on charisma, so this adds just one more attribute to your list of attributes you must have at a certain level. To really take advantage of Sublime Chord, you need a charisma of 19, a wisdom of 15, and an intelligence of at least 13.
The third PrC is Fochlucan Lyrist. Now, the problem for qualifying for this PrC is figuring out how to gain evasion. Alas, this means picking up non-spell caster levels, most likely. Rogue 2 or Monk 2. Rogue helps with skills and gives you sneak attack. Monk adds to your AC, gives you unarmed strike, and is far better suited for someone who is not using a shield or wearing armor. Alas, this is effectively 2 dead levels for the magic addict. Now, the PrC adds to arcane and divine spell casting class and also adds to your bardic knowledge and bardic music, so it does have some advanatages, depending on your eventual goal.
The fourth PrC is Arcane Hierophant. Alas, to qualify you need to have trackless step. That means being a half-elf or elf and taking wildrunner for one level, being of the bamboo spirit race, or taking three levels in scout or druid. That makes it a bit expensive in optimizing your wizard caster level. That said, it has the perk of ignoring arcane spell failure while wearing light armor. That means you can add armor which is something you couldn’t before. It also adds to wild shape, which is something you’d get if you took three levels of druid Of you can take one level of shapeshifter, which is a vastly superior form of wild shape.. Of course the real perk is that it also adds to one arcane and one divine spellcasting class.
The fifth class is Ultimate Magus. You qualify for this one easily, but you don’t want to take it until after your first level of Sublime Chord. It adds to a spontaneous arcane caster and an arcane caster who prepares from a spellbook. Now, technically, the sublime chord cannot cast 1st level arcane spells. And if you take one level of bard, you can only cast 0-level spells spontaneously. You will have to add to your bard spellcasting level, most likely with mystic theurge, for one level. Then you can add Ultimate magus to Sublime Chord and Wizard. Now while Mystic Theurge adds a total of 20 spell casting “levels”, ultimate magus adds only 17. You “lose” a level at 1st, 4th, and 7th. At that level, you get to pick which class to add it to, Wizard or Sublime Chord. You should always add to Sublime Chord, you will get higher level spells out of it. Now, if you are choosing the ultimate magus route, you may wish to look into metamagic feats to maximize the PrC’s usefulness. I suggest the old standbys of empower and maximize. Extend is also useful, but at that level, your more likely to use an extend metamagic rod.
By using the Fochlucan Lyrist, Arcane Heirophant, Ultimate Magus, and Mystic Theurge, you can add to Mystic Theurge as the divine spellcaster, while also adding to wizard. You should switch to adding to to Sublime Chord as soon as possible. Sprinkle in some practiced spellcaster feats here and there and you will see your Caster Level really take off.
Now, there is one combo that you are unlikely to get past your DM, but it’s worth a shot. Technically, if you are casting spells with mystic ranger 4, you are casting arcane and divine spells with that class. So, technically, you can add both +1 arcane and +1 divine from Mystic Theurge to mystic ranger. If your DM allows it, a Mystic ranger: 4/Mystic Theurge: 3, is casting 5th level spells at 7th level, two whole levels before a wizard. Even if your DM requires you to take a level in wizard, you’d still get 5th level spells one level before a wizard. Now, the problem is, there is little point in taking mystic ranger past 10th level, as far as spellcasting is concerned. Now it does give you more spells, and it does add to your wizard level, but really, you’d be better putting that level elsewhere, so you can spread it out a bit. So, while this is dang cool, the advantage only lasts for one level, then you start to fall behind.

Just One Example
Mystic Ranger: 1-4 (MRCL:4)
Wizard: 1 (WCL: 5)
Mystic Theurge: 1 (MR/W:6/2[7])
Mystic Theurge: 2 (MR/W:7/2[9])
Mystic Theurge: 3 (MR/W:9/2[11])
Bard: 1
Mystic Theurge: 4 (MR/W/Bard:10/2[12]/2)
Sublime Chord: 1
Ultimate Magus: 1 (MR/W/B/SC:10/2[14]/2/1)
Ultimate Magus: 2 (MR/W/B/SC:10/3[16]/2/2)
Ultimate Magus: 3 (MR/W/B/SC:10/4[18]/2/3)
Ultimate Magus: 4 (MR/W/B/SC:10/4[20]/2/4)
Ultimate Magus: 5 (MR/W/B/SC:10/5[22]/2/5)
Ultimate Magus: 6 (MR/W/B/SC:10/6[24]/2/6)
Ultimate Magus: 7 (MR/W/B/SC:10/6[26]/2/7)

Throw in two uses of Practiced Spellcaster, and your Wizard Casting level is 34. There are other ways to leverage things, but then you are entering TO, and leaving the realm of what a sane DM will allow you to get away with.

[Vistra]

Let's say you're a wizard 1/mystic ranger 10, with SotAO. You can cast spells as a ranger or as a wizard. When you cast spells as a wizard, you have only first-level spells to choose from, because you're only a first-level wizard, and the spells can only be from the wizard list. This is pretty pathetic, for an 11th-level character. When you cast spells as a ranger, you have spells of up to 5th level to choose from, and those spells can be from the wizard list or from the ranger list. This is good, because 5th level spells are only a little behind the curve for an 11th level character. If you didn't have the wizard level, then you'd be able to cast those 5th level spells at character level 10, which is even better: That's as good as any class gets.

Just because you can cast spells from the wizard list does not mean that you're casting them as a wizard. You're a ranger, and you are casting as a ranger. You're just a ranger that has a lot more variety of spells to choose from than most rangers do. Taking a level of wizard does nothing for you, except let you do some things you could already do anyway.

Another reason I wanted 1 level in wizard was for the familiar, +improved familiar feat which would give me a pretty badass mount!

Maybe Obtain Familiar is a better option for me? Although it ties up an extra feat.

[Chronos]

Ok so the wording in the feats says

"You can use your paladin and ranger spell slots to prepare wizard spells".

Well how do I gain these wizard spells? At level 10 mystic ranger i'll have 5 spell slots. How do I prepare wizard spells in say my 5th level slot?
You buy a book and some ink, and you write spells in it that you find from various sources (buying scrolls, looting spellbooks off of enemy wizards, borrowing a book from a friend, etc.). Then, each morning, when you're preparing spells, instead of praying for a spell like most rangers do, you can prepare it by studying your spellbook.

This is basically the same way it works for a wizard. But even though you're doing things the same way that a wizard would do them, you're not a wizard. You're a class that replaces wizard.

Captnq, you're making things a lot more complicated than you need to. You can only cast wizard spells that you know, but "knowing" them means the same thing for you as it does for a wizard: You write them in your spellbook, and now you can prepare them.

[Snowbluff]

Obtain Familiar would be better. I've already suggested the PHB2 ACF that gives illusionists a freebie mirror image in place of their familiar.


Uhhhh... No.

Mystic Ranger is a base class from Dragon Magazine.

Shooting Star is useless for Mystic Ranger since you lose the very thing you have to give up to take advantage of shooting star.

You are thinking of The Sword of the Arcane Order FEAT.

Is anyone else having a hard time trying to divine the meaning of this? I mean we have sentences... but I think there's at least one thing wrong in each one.

I think he's trying to say I mean the Shooting Star Order and not the Substitution levels, and that you can't use Mystic Ranger with the Substitution levels... which is exactly what he suggested in the post I quoted.

Did he mean this?

Uhhhh... No.

Mystic Ranger is a base class from Dragon Magazine.

Shooting Star is useless for Mystic Ranger since you lose the very thing you have to give up to take advantage of Mystic Ranger.

You are thinking of Shooting Star the ORGANIZATION. :smallconfused:

[Vistra]

You buy a book and some ink, and you write spells in it that you find from various sources (buying scrolls, looting spellbooks off of enemy wizards, borrowing a book from a friend, etc.). Then, each morning, when you're preparing spells, instead of praying for a spell like most rangers do, you can prepare it by studying your spellbook.

This is basically the same way it works for a wizard. But even though you're doing things the same way that a wizard would do them, you're not a wizard. You're a class that replaces wizard.

Captnq, you're making things a lot more complicated than you need to. You can only cast wizard spells that you know, but "knowing" them means the same thing for you as it does for a wizard: You write them in your spellbook, and now you can prepare them.

Ok this is good to know. So what about my CL? is it the same for my Wizard Spells as it is for my Ranger spells? (i'm assuming mystic ranger CL = my ranger level?)

[Captnq]

Captnq, you're making things a lot more complicated than you need to. You can only cast wizard spells that you know, but "knowing" them means the same thing for you as it does for a wizard: You write them in your spellbook, and now you can prepare them.

No. I'm making it exactly as complicated as it has to be. Your way makes all wizard spells that an MR casts divine. No arcane spell failure. I can make a scroll and hand it off to an archivist and he can add that spell to his archivist spellbook, therefore opening up every 1st through 5th level wizard spell to the archivist either by hiring a mystic theurge to scribe scrolls, or an artificer to do the same thing through a UMD check.

Technically, the SotAO feat does not give you access to the wizard spell list. So, as I pointed out in the four problems, it entirely depends on your DM and which particular headaches he wants to live with. The original intent for the feat was NEVER to combine it with Mystic Ranger, that's why there are so many strange interactions.

And Snowbluff, it's past midnight and I got to get up in 5 hours. Sorry I'm tired. Here:


SHOOTING STAR (Substitution)

- Champions of Valor (3.5)
Description: Rangers of the Order of the Shooting Star serve Mystra by scouting, spying, and dealing with fiends and monstrosities created by magical experimentation.
Hit Die: Standard
Requirements: To take a Shooting Star substitution level, a character must have Mystra as her patron deity and be about to take her 4th or 8th level of mystic ranger.
Class Skills: Shooting Star substitution levels have the class skills of the standard ranger class plus Knowledge (arcana) (Int) and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points: Standard.
Substitution: 4th Level
Weavespeak (Sp): Because the members of this order need to report their findings over long distances, starting at 4th level a Shooting Star develops the power to use the Weave itself to transmit short messages. Once per day the character can transmit a message of twenty-five words or less to the nearest cleric, paladin, or ranger of Mystra (the Shooting Star can’t choose the recipient). This ability only functions where the Weave is active, and it cannot jump planar boundaries; the ranger knows if either condition would prevent the message from reaching its target. It is otherwise the equivalent of a sending spell. This benefit replaces the Endurance bonus feat gained by a mystic ranger at 4th level.
Editor: The level needed to be moved from 3rd to 4th to match up with mystic ranger’s class features. Oh, due to a weird wording, you can’t take this and the bonus spells substitution level below. It’s one or the other.
Substitution: Invalid
Bonus Spells (Su): This benefit replaces the animal companion class feature gained by a ranger at 4th level.
Improved Spellcasting (Ex): You can’t get this without getting bonus spells at the same time.
Editor: Nuts. In order to qualify for this you have to take a substitution level at 4th, that would be replaced by this substitution level, so you would no longer qualify for this substitution level.
Substitution: 8th Level
Expanded Spell List: This replaces the standard ranger’s swift tracker class feature.
2 See Invisibility: Reveals invisible creatures or objects.
4 Word of Recall: Teleports you back to designated place.
Editor: This is the only substitution spell list that actually costs a class feature. Then again, if you are a shooting star mystic ranger, tracking is unlikely to be something you do on a regular basis. Side note, this is the only way to put word of recall into a wand. Just something to think about.


Now, in the PDF I explain that Mystic Rangers lose the animal companion. Improved Spellcasting requires you to give up an animal companion. The only way of getting an animal companion is at level 4 via level substitution. The problem is, you can't level substitution the same level twice. Therefore, there is no way for a Mystic Ranger to ever qualify for Improved Spellcasting.

Which, let's face facts, is the only useful part of Shooting Star Substitution levels.

However, it's mostly pointless to take it anyways. Trust me, Practiced Spellcaster/SotAO and Mystic Theurge/Sublime Chord combos blow Shooting Star out of the water.

I sleep. Goodnight.

[Vistra]

What do you guys think about a dip in battle sorcerer for this build? That would eliminate my arcane spell failure when I cast my wizard spells.

Would this negatively effect my otherwise straight mystic ranger+ SotaO.

[Snowbluff]

What do you guys think about a dip in battle sorcerer for this build? That would eliminate my arcane spell failure when I cast my wizard spells.

Would this negatively effect my otherwise straight mystic ranger+ SotaO.

I wouldn't bother. I don't think your spells cast from ranger slots would be subject to ASF, and you can have a Mithril Twillight Githcraft Feycraft Chain Shirt made.

[Vistra]

Do you have any advice on where I should take this build after level 10?

I want to focus on mounted archery. I'll have 5th level Ranger + Wizard spells, so anything that can play off of that would also be a bonus.

What about Arcane Archer? (My DM is going to waive the Elf requirement)

Level 10 Whisper Gnome, Mystic Ranger riding a Wolverine.

There is also the Silverwood Arcanist that would allow me to share spells with my wild cohort as a lvl 5 capstone.

[Vistra]

Anyone got any good suggestions for a PrC after mystic ranger 10?

I'll have 5th level wizard + ranger spells, so i'm not really concerned about needing more spellcasting.

I was thinking along the lines of a PrC that granted precision damage such as Assassin or something similar?

This would be great if there was any way for me to get persistent Hunter's Eye (any ideas?)

[Coidzor]

Abjurant Champion gives you 5 levels of casting and BAB, and make the Shield Spell and Greater Luminous Armor from Book of Exalted Deeds give pretty decent AC.

If you (can) take the Wildshaping (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger)variant along with Mystic Ranger, that would open up 7 levels of Master of Many Forms along with Nature's Warrior and Warshaper.

[Vistra]

Hey guys, thanks for all your help. On your advice, I decided to go straight Mystic Ranger till lvl 10.

Not sure what i'll do after 10, but I may put some levels into scout for the swifthunter benefit (going to see if DM will allow mounted skirmish).

Right now this is my current build / feat selection. It employs 2 flaws, and some homebrew on feat retraining. (Trading in my wild cohort for Obtain familiar, and taking improved familiar at 6th level)

1st Point Blank Shot / Precise Shot / Wild Cohort [trade at lvl 6 for obtain familiar]
2nd Favored Enemy
3rd Rapidshot / Endurance [trade at 4th for SotAo once I get endurance as class feature]
4th Endurance / SotAo
5th
6th Improved Familiar
7th Woodland Stride, Manyshot
8th 2nd Favored Enemy
9th Evasion / Mounted Combat
10th
11th
12th Mounted Archery

I am looking for advice on some spells I am going to want to take. Keep in mind i'll have access to 5th lvl Wizard and Ranger spells.

What are some spells that would stand out for this build?

[Vistra]

Any suggestions for spell selection?