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TheBetterMan
2013-09-27, 04:14 PM
I'm joining a Pathfinder game to replace someone who is leaving, who played a fighter and was really the group's only heavy class. I was going to play a small Cavalier, but the DM told me that my mount is going to have a hard time following me with what he has planned. So I've switched to the idea of a melee/tank focused DD, but before I build him I just want to make sure I have the abilities he gains each level correct, since it's quite a lot.

Race: Tiefling Gnome (Alternate Demon-Spawn (+2 Str/+2 Cha/-2 Int))

Class: Paladin 2/ Sorc 3/ DD 10/ EK 5

{table] Class | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Abilities | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9
Paladin (Sacred Shield) | +1 | +2 | +0 | +2 | Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Bastion of Good | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Paladin | +2 | +3(+Cha) | +0(+Cha) | +3(+Cha) | Divine Grace, Lay on Hands | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Sorcerer (Crossblooded) | +2 | +3(+Cha) | +0(+Cha) | +3(+Cha) | Bloodline Power, Cantrips, Eschew Materials | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Sorcerer (Draconic/Orc) | +3 | +3(+Cha) | +0(+Cha) | +4(+Cha) | | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | |
Sorcerer | +3 | +4(+Cha) | +1(+Cha) | +4(+Cha) | Bloodline Power, Bloodline Spell | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Dragon Disciple | +3 | +5(+Cha) | +1(+Cha) | +5(+Cha) | Blood of the Dragons, Natural Armor +1 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Dragon Disciple | +4 | +5(+Cha) | +2(+Cha) | +5(+Cha) | Bloodline Spell, Str +2, Bloodline Feat, Dragon Bite | 5 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Dragon Disciple | +5 | +6(+Cha) | +2(+Cha) | +6(+Cha) | Breath Weapon | 5 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Dragon Disciple | +6 | +6(+Cha) | +2(+Cha) | +6(+Cha) | Bloodline Feat, Bloodline Spell, Str +2, Natural Armor +1 | 5 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Dragon Disciple | +6 | +7(+Cha) | +3(+Cha) | +7(+Cha) | Blindsense 30', Bloodline Feat | 5 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Dragon Disciple | +7 | +7(+Cha) | +3(+Cha) | +7(+Cha) | Bloodline Power, Bloodline Spell, Con +2 | 5 | 5 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Dragon Disciple | +8 | +8(+Cha) | +3(+Cha) | +8(+Cha) | Dragon Form 1/day, Natural Armor +1 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Dragon Disciple | +9 | +8(+Cha) | +4(+Cha) | +8(+Cha) | Bloodline Spell, Int +2, Bloodline Feat | 5 | 5 | 5 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Dragon Disciple | +9 | +9(+Cha) | +4(+Cha) | +9(+Cha) | Wings | 5 | 5 | 5 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Dragon Disciple | +10 | +9(+Cha) | +4(+Cha) | +9(+Cha) | Bloodline Feat, Bloodline Spell, Blindsense 60', Dragon Form 2/day | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Eldritch Knight | +11 | +10(+Cha) | +4(+Cha) | +9(+Cha) | Combat Feat, Fighter Feat | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Eldritch Knight | +12 | +10(+Cha) | +5(+Cha) | +10(+Cha) | Fighter Feat | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Eldritch Knight | +13 | +11(+Cha) | +5(+Cha) | +10(+Cha) | | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Eldritch Knight | +14 | +11(+Cha) | +5(+Cha) | +10(+Cha) |Fighter Feat | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Eldritch Knight | +15 | +12(+Cha) | +6(+Cha) | +11(+Cha) | Combat Feat | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 0 |[/table]


I believe that is right, minus innate feats, unless I've missed something.

I am planning to go sword and shield to be tanky, so probably feats like Dodge, Shield Focus, etc. If anyone has any advice on that matter, though, I'd appreciate it. This is, by far, the most complicated character I've planned for a PF game, so I could use the help.


Also, for skills, I have it as standard paladin fare, adding Appraise, Bluff, Fly Intimidate, Knowledge(arcana), UMD, Perception, Survival for Sorcerer. Then Escape Artist, Knowledge (all) for Dragon Disciple. And finally Climb, Linguistics, and Swim for EK.

For spells I plan to focus on self-buffing, but I haven't gotten that far into deciding on spells yet.

Edit: First wave of changes
Bhaakon
2013-09-27, 05:14 PM
You've listed your spells like you have full casting advancement from level 3 through 20, but you shouldn't. Dragon Disciple and Eldritch Knight skip 4 levels of advancement. You should be topping out at level 7 spells, not reaching level 9.
grarrrg
2013-09-27, 06:07 PM
Eldritch Knight levels do not count towards Bloodline Powers/Spells.
Dragon Disciple has a special ability stating that it counts towards Bloodline.
TheBetterMan
2013-09-27, 07:30 PM
You've listed your spells like you have full casting advancement from level 3 through 20, but you shouldn't. Dragon Disciple and Eldritch Knight skip 4 levels of advancement. You should be topping out at level 7 spells, not reaching level 9.


Eldritch Knight levels do not count towards Bloodline Powers/Spells.
Dragon Disciple has a special ability stating that it counts towards Bloodline.


Thanks very much. I've made the appropriate changes.
Eldonauran
2013-09-27, 08:09 PM
If you want to ... experiment a bit with another bloodline ...

Draconic Bloodline has in its bonus feat list: Skill Focus: Knowledge (arcana), which if taken as a bonus feat, qualifies you to take Eldritch Heritage (Arcane).

Some side benefits:
Familiar/Bonded Item (1st level bloodline power)
Free quicken spells (3rd level bloodline power) Psst, Quicken spell is a Draconic bonus feat, great for insta-buffs.
Arcane Knowledge (9th level bloodline power) - Free spell known
TheBetterMan
2013-09-27, 08:29 PM
If you want to ... experiment a bit with another bloodline ...

Draconic Bloodline has in its bonus feat list: Skill Focus: Knowledge (arcana), which if taken as a bonus feat, qualifies you to take Eldritch Heritage (Arcane).

Some side benefits:
Familiar/Bonded Item (1st level bloodline power)
Free quicken spells (3rd level bloodline power) Psst, Quicken spell is a Draconic bonus feat, great for insta-buffs.
Arcane Knowledge (9th level bloodline power) - Free spell known


I don't think it works that way. Arcane Heritage says you get the 1st level bloodline ability, but then specifically says 'You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities.'

Although, now that I think about it, this along with Improved Familiar would be a nice way to get a wand monkey to buff you. Not sure it's worth the cost of 2 feats, though.
Eldonauran
2013-09-27, 08:58 PM
I don't think it works that way. Arcane Heritage says you get the 1st level bloodline ability, but then specifically says 'You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities.'

Yes, well. You'll have to take Improved Eldritch Heritage (twice) to get the other two powers. It's not a bad use of character feats, considering you get bloodline feats that play directly into it.


Although, now that I think about it, this along with Improved Familiar would be a nice way to get a wand monkey to buff you. Not sure it's worth the cost of 2 feats, though.

If you give the familiar a wand with buff spells, its one less turn you have to spend buffing yourself. That alone might be worth it. Up to you though.
TheBetterMan
2013-09-28, 10:31 AM
Yes, well. You'll have to take Improved Eldritch Heritage (twice) to get the other two powers. It's not a bad use of character feats, considering you get bloodline feats that play directly into it.



If you give the familiar a wand with buff spells, its one less turn you have to spend buffing yourself. That alone might be worth it. Up to you though.

Is there a feat, similar to Eldritch Heritage, that simply lets you choose another bloodline power for those bloodlines you already have?
Eldonauran
2013-09-28, 12:32 PM
Is there a feat, similar to Eldritch Heritage, that simply lets you choose another bloodline power for those bloodlines you already have?

Not that I have been able to find. I've asked the same question before.
grarrrg
2013-09-28, 02:34 PM
Is there a feat, similar to Eldritch Heritage, that simply lets you choose another bloodline power for those bloodlines you already have?

So kind of like Boon Companion but for Bloodlines?
I can see an easy Homebrew feat for that.

Enhanced Bloodline
Prerequisites: Bloodline Arcana

Benefit: You count as up to 4 levels higher for the purposes of Bloodline Powers/spells, to a maximum of your Character level.
This ability does not grant bonus spells to a sorcerer unless he possesses spell slots of an appropriate level. Such bonus spells are automatically granted if the sorcerer gains spell slots of the spell's level.


Unless you meant more to benefit Crossblooded Sorcerers.
Than something like:

Extra Bloodline Power
Prerequisites: Cross-blooded Sorcerer

Benefit: You gain 1 additional Bloodline Power. This power must be from one of your Bloodlines gained through class levels.

Special: You can gain this feat multiple times.

The "gained through class levels" thing is to prevent combining it with Eldritch Heritage.
I feel there should be more Prereqs, just not sure what is appropriate, if anything.