Gamer Tales The SUE Files III: Basically, Exercising Your Cheese-Forging Genes [Archive] - Page 2

Friv

2013-10-18, 11:39 PM

Hm. If people's assessment of the failings of CTech are right, it sounds almost salvageable. It'd take a reworking on par with a second edition, but revisiting the core concepts and adjusting the horror level of the setting to be more "existential" than "creepy-in-the-greasy-guy-who-leers-at-schoolgirls-sort-of-sense," sounds plausible.

If, in truth, they aimed for horror and missed, then attempted to overcompensate in all the wrong ways, that IS something that can be repaired in a re-write. You'd need to set down some ground rules of how to write a game with a horror element properly and stick to them, though.

Well, a lot of the core stuff would need to be reworked almost from the ground up. It would be less of a second edition, and more of a new game with elements of the old game. And it would require the designers to be able to recognize their own faults.

If I were going to try and make an interesting setting out of Cthulutech, I would probably use the following as a base:

Midway through the 21st century, with pollution on the rise and corporations increasingly taking control of political processes, a team of scientists working for the Ashcroft Foundation successfully tap into another universe, which has been theorized to exist, and which is a source of what seems to be limitless energy. They patent the work, and within a decade power plants across the world are being converted into Dimensional Plants. These plants are fairly easy to construct, and there are no confirmed downsides to their presence. When something goes wrong, the link to the other universe is simply severed, so there's no risk of meltdown, and there's no negative leftovers the way that most power sources have. Pollution begins to go down, the plants are helping give running water and electricity to poor countries, and things are looking good.

Except for a rise across the globe in strange nightmares and brief psychotic breaks. No one notices, at first, that the rise corresponds to the spread of DPs, because its not centered on the areas where the plants are coming online. It's global, and seems pretty evenly distributed.

The truth is that the 'other universe' that the DPs connect to is the body of Azathoth himself, the blind madness. Azathoth is slowly waking up, and his tendrils are spreading across the planet. When he finally wakes, it will be the end of the Earth. The fallout will wipe out the rest of the galaxy, and a chunk of the universe in general. In the mean time, the more of his power that humanity uses, the more psychic toxins are spilling into the world. No one could tell this because we didn't have psychic science worth speaking of.

Far away, the galactic empire of the Migo does have psychic science, and they become aware that humanity is in the process of awakening something that they really, really shouldn't. They launch ships from their nearest colonies to eradicate humanity. Unfortunately, they don't possess faster-than-light travel, and by the time they reach the Solar System the process is too far advanced. Even if every Dimensional Engine is shut down and the Earth is reduced to rubble, Azathoth's attention is focusing on the world, and the empire of the Migo is about to be obliterated. In desperation, the forerunners concoct a plan. They are psychic, and even one of them touching the dreams of Azathoth can eradicate an entire cluster of beings. But humans are different. With sufficient alterations, they could create a counter-dimensional force, capable of lulling Azathoth back to sleep. Of course, to do this, humans must be captured alive, and in vast quantities. The Migo invasion of Earth begins.

Humanity is caught off-guard by the invasion of a vast, merciless alien empire. If you really, really want to keep the Nazzadi, they are what the Migo transform humans into in order to change their psychic natures, and entire regions become Nazzadi hives within days. This is where things go really, really wrong. In their desperation, scientists start toying with the Dimensional Engines, and one corporation, the Chrysalis Corporation, makes contact with a tiny fragment of Yog-Sothoth. For reasons of his own, he gives them a weapon to use against the Migo, which they detonate against Migo forces entrenched in the Himalayas. The entire force is obliterated as the Great Old One Hastur momentarily manifests in the world, and the psychic shockwave of his strike on the Migo hive there breaks the control the Migo have over their Nazzadi slaves. Every Migo on Earth dies.

But Hastur's brief release has really boned everything. Cults of the Great Old Ones begin to spread more rapidly. Strange creatures are seen in the depths of the sea, and transport ships begin to vanish. While humanity struggles to re-absorb their half-transformed Nazzadi brethern, word comes that more Migo ships are arriving, and the Chrysalis Corporation insists that the weapon that stopped them last time could crack the Earth in half if used again. Secretly, Hastur himself may never have left; he's infected Chrysalis, driving tendrils into its board of directors and launching a shadow war against Nyarlathotep, and the corporation is driving itself mad, and taking Earth's militaries with it. Scientists search for new weapons to fight them, and technologies based on other Old Ones begin to appear. This time, when the Migo arrive, humanity can stand its ground - but with every advance, they may be hastening their own destruction.

Where you go from there depends largely on how far along the action - horror line you want the game to be.

LordChaos13

2013-10-19, 12:13 AM

Holy BEEP I would play the [redacted] out of that game :smallcool:

*throws money at Friv* Go! Make! Design!

Forrestfire

2013-10-19, 12:20 AM

Oh man, that is absolutely amazing.

If there's ever a game on the forum that is started up with that premise, I will have to make a note to try to join it.

georgie_leech

2013-10-19, 12:21 AM

snippity

See, that? That is exactly what I meant by effort. Nice one. Plot hooks everywhere!

Trekkin

2013-10-19, 12:22 AM

If I were going to do it...that up there would be a better game than how I'd have thought to do it.

Eldan

2013-10-19, 04:35 AM

It's been a while since I read my Lovecraft, but...

Weren't the Migo those aliens who liked switching minds and/or brains between bodies? Bevcause that's an alternative explanation for Nazzadi or another invasion force.

The Migo are too alien. They can not normally communicate with us. So, after we fought them to a standstill by unleashing Hastur on them, they change their plans. Instead of capturing and twisting humans physically and psychically, they take some of the bodies and implant Migo memories into them, in order to create a race of intermediate beings as ambassadors between the two races.

I'd also bring in the Elder Beings from Antarctica. They have a nice motivation, too, if you change them a bit from Lovecraft: they just woke up from a few million years of stasis and find the world changed. Now there's two other intelligent races warring over their world. That can't be. Unleash the Shoggoths and clean the planet!

Friv

2013-10-19, 01:49 PM

*bows* Thank you, thank you.

Sadly, while I admit there's a small part of me that kind of does what to extrapolate the above into an entire setting, with rules and everything, to do so would be far too brutal a task. Doubly so because it would require stripping out enough Cthulutech that the devs didn't accuse us of stealing their ideas. Which... you know... we kind of would be, a little. And they seem to scan the internet for references to their stuff, so that would be a distinct possibility.

It's been a while since I read my Lovecraft, but...

Weren't the Migo those aliens who liked switching minds and/or brains between bodies? Bevcause that's an alternative explanation for Nazzadi or another invasion force.

The Migo are too alien. They can not normally communicate with us. So, after we fought them to a standstill by unleashing Hastur on them, they change their plans. Instead of capturing and twisting humans physically and psychically, they take some of the bodies and implant Migo memories into them, in order to create a race of intermediate beings as ambassadors between the two races.

That would be a direction to take it, but it would be a direction that removed the Migo as the primary alien antagonist, which if you want the game to be Evangelion Meets Lovecraft is kind of weird. I'd rather have a few alien races, all trying their damndest to destroy us, and we're developing tech based on the Elder Gods to fight them.

I'd also bring in the Elder Beings from Antarctica. They have a nice motivation, too, if you change them a bit from Lovecraft: they just woke up from a few million years of stasis and find the world changed. Now there's two other intelligent races warring over their world. That can't be. Unleash the Shoggoths and clean the planet!

The Elder Beings would actually be a good addition, too! Maybe all the psychic shocks wake up their remnants, and they start claiming Antarctica back. (Or maybe they actually join humanity against building-sized Shoggoths wandering ashore!)

Deffers

2013-10-19, 02:05 PM

That idea of a human-Elder Being alliance is totally a possibility. Even in At The Mountains of Madness, Lovecraft mentioned the kinship that the explorers felt for the Elder Beings-- they were a lot like humans, regardless of how different their physiology was. And when H.P. freaking LOVECRAFT is talking about how similar two groups are despite their physical differences, I mean... yeah.

Trekkin

2013-10-19, 09:42 PM

And they seem to scan the internet for references to their stuff, so that would be a distinct possibility.

Hey, I look for SUE Files mentions, too. Mostly people finding fault with me for it, but whatever.

I just don't then go whine about how their take on it is badwrongfun.

Deffers

2013-10-19, 09:52 PM

Trekkin

2013-10-19, 10:22 PM

People find fault with you for it? Why, exactly? You've been very conscientious not to release CC's name, and you've been sure to keep him out of it as much as possible. You're clearly doing this because you had an awful, awful experience-- and you started writing regularly because of it. Don't see anything wrong with that.

Most of the complaints are:

1. It's too long to read.
2. I didn't do enough to make it a better game.
3. I think too much of myself.

All of which are completely true.

Deffers

2013-10-19, 10:47 PM

1. It's only ever too long to read if people don't read all the way through it. People read through your stuff all the time and enjoy the crap out of it, as we can see from the posts going "So I read through all the posts and I'm all caught up-- wow! That was some experience you had!"

2. and 3. are things you have to make up your own mind about-- the way I see it is, sounds like throughout the campaign's history you were plagued by exams, deadlines, and sleep deprivation. Exactly HOW MUCH time were you supposed to spend on making your group hobby enjoyable for everyone, when that's an out-of-the-box expectation? As for thinking too much about yourself-- maybe so! I am DEFINITELY not qualified to give a judgement call on this one.:smalltongue:

My guess is, most people think too much about themselves. Not sweating it and making an active effort to be better is about all you can do. Not sure who they want you to think about, though-- CC? Waste of thought. Your fellow players? Seems like you got on well with them. Vast philosophical points about trying to better yourself are nice and all, but in the specific place of your game it looks like you did your best and that your best was certainly what I'd call good enough.

Friv

2013-10-19, 11:10 PM

Here's the thing - there are always people that are going to complain, for a variety of reasons. One of the hardest parts of being a writer is looking at people's complaints, and recognizing which ones are absolutely valid, which ones are valid from the point of view of the complainer and yet not something that you need to worry about fixing, and which ones are invalid.

It doesn't take that thin of a skin to start assuming that everything falls into the first category, causing you to give up, or into the third category, causing you to turtle up.

... you know, the more I think about this Cthulutech thing, the more I kind of want to make a sci-fi Cthulu setting that uses the best ideas but doesn't keep any of the core problems of the setting. Rename anything that Cthulutech actually made up (no Tagers, no Chrysalis Corporation), decide on a good system to run it in. Maybe we should start a thread in the Homebrew section...

*EDIT* I have a name idea, but it's a little silly: Techronomicon.

Sir_Mopalot

2013-10-20, 01:19 AM

... you know, the more I think about this Cthulutech thing, the more I kind of want to make a sci-fi Cthulu setting that uses the best ideas but doesn't keep any of the core problems of the setting. Rename anything that Cthulutech actually made up (no Tagers, no Chrysalis Corporation), decide on a good system to run it in. Maybe we should start a thread in the Homebrew section...

*EDIT* I have a name idea, but it's a little silly: Techronomicon.

Let's do it! Just a thought, a FATE Core hack seems like a good idea. It's designed to be screwed with this way, and it does story-focused gaming phenomenally, with the only real downside being that you can't do more battletech style miniatures combat with it. And a +1 for the name.

Trekkin

2013-10-20, 01:22 AM

with the only real downside being that you can't do more battletech style miniatures combat with it. And a +1 for the name.

+1 from me as well. It sounds like an in-universe document.

And given the history Ctech has had with trying to run tactical wargaming and RPGs in the same system, I can't help but wonder if it's not a downside after all.

LordChaos13

2013-10-20, 01:24 AM

if this does get made into a legit system: Sign me up for it

Im suuper interested in Ctech done Right and you have a great fluff base right there.

Mr Beer

2013-10-20, 01:43 AM

Most of the complaints are:

1. It's too long to read.
2. I didn't do enough to make it a better game.
3. I think too much of myself.

All of which are completely true.

Gonna take these in order:

1. Don't read if too long.

2. CC was a ****, you can't fix a bad GM.

3. Whatever, I have an extremely low tolerance for arrogance, you write funnily and cleverly and have all the self-deprecation required to disarm any such accusations. I'd be the first to knife you if you were too full of yourself, this criticism is invalid.

Arbane

2013-10-20, 03:22 AM

*EDIT* I have a name idea, but it's a little silly: Techronomicon.

I like it!

One idea I heard that could fit in well here: The Deep Ones are on humanity's side - or, to be more precise, our goals (stop the Mi-Go before they KILL US ALL) coincide at the moment.

And the Mi-Go aren't just towing asteroids towards earth to glass the planet for fear of waking up Cthulhu and co, who would almost certainly both survive and be VERY ANNOYED by an orbital bombardment. So they're stuck with the inefficient "hunt them down and shoot them" approach to combat.

Also, this fanfic might inspire some ideas: Children of An Elder God (http://www.thekeep.org/~rpm/eva/coaeg.html). Evangelion vs. the Cthulhu Mythos! (For some reason, the final chapter (http://www.thekeep.org/~wombat/Stories/Cthulhu/COAEG24.txt) isn't linked to on that page, even though it's on the site.)

Kish

2013-10-20, 05:11 AM

2. I didn't do enough to make it a better game.
...Did they read the "women take Wisdom damage if their chests are damaged" thing? I could easily see arguing that you stuck around way too long, but...

...wait, these are men who don't actually see the problem with the aforementioned Wisdom damage thing, aren't they? Blegh.

JustIgnoreMe

2013-10-20, 09:11 AM

Also, this fanfic might inspire some ideas: Children of An Elder God (http://www.thekeep.org/~rpm/eva/coaeg.html). Evangelion vs. the Cthulhu Mythos! (For some reason, the final chapter (http://www.thekeep.org/~wombat/Stories/Cthulhu/COAEG24.txt) isn't linked to on that page, even though it's on the site.)

Fun fact: I loved Children of an Elder God and read it religiously when I was at university. I was sure it had been abandoned, and was really psyched to find it had been later finished.

It was for love of CoaEG that I bought Cthulhutech.

There is an important life lesson in that, somewhere.

Alabenson

2013-10-20, 12:18 PM

I like it!

One idea I heard that could fit in well here: The Deep Ones are on humanity's side - or, to be more precise, our goals (stop the Mi-Go before they KILL US ALL) coincide at the moment.

Honestly, I've always felt that the Elder Things would make for fairly decent allies in this sort of setting;
Canonically, they're enemies of both Cthulhu's star spawn and the Mi-Go, they originate from our universe, and their thought patterns are actually comprehensible by humanity. By the standards of Lovecraftian monsters, that practically makes them humanity's best friends.

LordChaos13

2013-10-20, 12:34 PM

Honestly, I've always felt that the Elder Things would make for fairly decent allies in this sort of setting;
Canonically, they're enemies of both Cthulhu's star spawn and the Mi-Go, they originate from our universe, and their thought patterns are actually comprehensible by humanity. By the standards of Lovecraftian monsters, that practically makes them humanity's best friends.

Maybe the Elder Things and the Deep Ones are Humanity's closest allies, with the agenda-driven Cthuluoid monsters being a little farther out opposing the Migo

Of course the revelation that the Great Old Ones wish to wake sends the allies spiralling out, cautiousness at the agenda of the Deep Ones and trying frantically to purge Old One from their tech without spreading panic among the greater populace.
Of course the infections of the Cults run deep, and each new design has the potential to be counterproductive, driving them back into the embrace of the alarm clock technology if some of the scientists are sleeper Cultists

Deffers

2013-10-20, 12:52 PM

I like the idea of Deep Ones, humans, and Elder Things working together. As I recall, the Deep Ones kinda like Cthulhu, just not as much as they like Dagon. It'd be interesting, seeing the tension between a party that has Elder Things and Deep Ones working together as some sort of strike squad. After all, both are extremely competent sorcerers, and the Elder Things have a pedigree in living technology like nobody else in the entire setting. Both would see the benefit of working together, being so much lesser in power than the Migo trying to destroy them-- but the tensions would be amazing campaign hooks. And the Migo might send diplomatic overtures to the Deep Ones, creating this sort of fragile alliance that maybe the PCs can, by great effort and heroism, somehow keep together long enough to fight back against the Migo.

After all, cosmic horror gaming is all about holding the line for one more day, keeping things together until tomorrow. There might not be hope in the long run, but maybe you can chain together enough small victories that it motivates you to keep fighting.

LordChaos13

2013-10-20, 01:01 PM

I like it :smallbiggrin:
Perhaps put in incentives for inter-racial fighting? Working OOC to gain the right balance of "Gain power by screwing with the Elder One" and "Win the campaign" and "Stop the Elder One screwing with you for power"

Like a multi-person Prisoner's Dilemma except with a Win condition?

Granted that would be a single possible campaign, maybe Optional Rules?

Friv

2013-10-20, 01:13 PM

Alright, I'm going ahead and making a thread for Techronomicon! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16254227)

We can carry on our conversation there, and let this thread remain about terrible things. :smallbiggrin:

Deffers

2013-10-20, 01:39 PM

EDIT: Whoops, missed Friv's post. Ignore this silliness and apologies.:smalltongue:

So. How 'bout that CC, huh?

llehctim

2013-10-21, 10:34 AM

Fun fact: I loved Children of an Elder God and read it religiously when I was at university. I was sure it had been abandoned, and was really psyched to find it had been later finished.

It was for love of CoaEG that I bought Cthulhutech.

There is an important life lesson in that, somewhere.

That fanfiction was far too long (apparently longer than War and Peace), and was introduced to me by a FANATIC about NGE, which ruined it for me. Not to mention a bunch of other problems such as the main character being a complete Mary Sue (not that I knew what that was at the time). But I do acknowledge at least it was well written (since it was by an english teacher or something, been a few years since I was constantly bombarded with requests/demands that I read The Best Fanfiction Ever)

Segev

2013-10-21, 01:14 PM

*neat writeup*

Very nice. I'd probably tweak it such that the "world was engulfed in pollution" angle is actually false (and discoverably so) for a few reasons - industrialized nations actually pollute less than non- these days; there is a definite power-grab behind it; and discovering that it was greed and propaganda that not only made the "free" energy D-engines palatable but made their competition almost vilified would only add to the tragedy of it - but there's a lot that's neat in there.

I actually really like the idea that man kind is the existential horror, without realizing it. I also like Yog Sothoth helping out "for reasons of its own." Yog Sothoth is, of all the Mythos Horrors, the one least inimicable to human life, and could even be read as beneficent (if still maddening by very nature). The Key and the Gate is the barrier between realms, that which keeps things that Should Not Be (here) over (there) Where They Should Be.

Why Yog helped, then, with releasing Hastur into the world and prevented what might have lulled Azathoth back to sleep is interesting.

I'd probably touch on the madness spread by Azathoth be blind and idiotic, to play on his nature as the "blind idiot god." Being unfathomably alien, it would seem to have wisdom and mad prophetic sight, but would prove to be false when examined more closely (if that examination didn't likewise drive you mad).

I do like the concept behind the Nazadi-as-written: the traditional warrior-race-conquerors-from-space where it's all actually a lie told to them by even more alien overlords. Tweaking that to fit with "Nazadi-as-psychics-to-zonk-out-Azathoth" is a little tricky, but can probably be done with enough nuance and thought into what the mechanism for that lulling might be.

The Tagers, the Real Giant Robots, and the Engels form three different approaches and almost three styles of storytelling. They are hard to reconcile, and are a large part of what I think makes CTech itself feel unfocused.

Putting Tagers on the "secret war" lines, fighting Hastur and other Cthuloid forces seeking to corrupt mankind from within; putting Real Robots as the fighting force in the military campaigns against Nazadi and MiGo forces in a space opera; putting Engels on the public side of the war against truly alien, mind-bending horrors... I think that might be the proper divide.

The Engels are a cross-over between the otehr two: to man, the MiGo, Nazadi, and "eldrich horrors" are related things, possibly allied. The Engels fight the last group, but might be seen as brethren-in-arms to the Real Robots. Meanwhile, the mysterious sources that fund the really cutting-edge tech in the Engels, and the cults that worship the eldritch beings, are also fought by the Tagers.

You can close the loop a bit by having the occasional Tager soldier in the space war; after all, they're suited for combat. But they're secret weapons. The Real Robots pilots rarely will find themselves in the Secret War side of things. Not unless there's something interesting to be done with power armor or other skills that robot pilots might have that could be useful in clandestine operations.

Balmas

2013-10-22, 07:15 PM

You're giving FATAL too much credit. The writer didn't try to make the game horrifying. See his defense of the game here (http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/FATALReviewRebuttal).

...That is quite possibly the most horrifying thing I've ever read. At first, I thought that maybe the author had a few good points, but then I started to get into it.

Trekkin

2013-11-06, 03:43 PM

We have a new post (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/11/backstory-induced-madness.html), and a submission to boot.

Maybe more to come when I'm not drowning in paperwork.

georgie_leech

2013-11-06, 06:09 PM

Arbane

2013-11-06, 08:28 PM

It lives!

And I was just about to attach electrodes to the thread so I could post this:

https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1013275_629612987085100_2090292858_n.jpg

Forrestfire

2013-11-06, 08:35 PM

Oh god, I reverse imaged searched that to see if there was a knowyourmeme page for it or something, and google spat out:

"Best guess for this image: dungeons and dragons nerd (https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZiuujIKbNf475WiWbdqOQkN94bF3m2n 07Wu-4VaxrF-tH8W-KSgsiDtaN8jbH38tWgm6D0kG-GgFOg8fdS1NT7c5qbepR8XiUeq-tCcgRWG0efQkU0eOzQzGPfWwRoG-5zuh8XBA6jChFFzYJlz-pm-HJqp3V08GtKoeK27BdNIj0eNLZlXKoqA2522RpSPoebvt6xdJA gT4XwJ3j9Y2GKkx4GAow7weW3rvMag9TZvKmzTyiY1PmdUR7Nk ZN7tx3yQsc2ufGJe8kGjg9XW4fC2capWvm0K0pWhkeQSYfl9WG vzR1PlPhwdxSj4fehlCq05azpoGVq5gsa3HkkRzVG3ZTa9CgVW P52alnXw24KZDeYl3orIPmAF-nndb3FzmSp_1U7fJAQmfrd27lv7J8AoApPrPKZlfhWMdvFUOkf h2CWFL4509w6_1VMuvRdaHmbRaLSPTHg6VoWHtyZIAEEhQy9gZ ZJ-NQ8tmwBug5yfxWw3WwZBK7B-ImkkC7ZJToReWuu5yQl2AmFDGAaWCXGLs-OP3UcHtzU6gsY9uvH7702pMcNvd9E-gbAAx2qzscVknz_1gn0EVS-Lhta6OaElC1gwvUWKPLYFxuOPg8dPqOQqFujLxuGOu9gz9G9sf x8-BMkD1gUbFmopO8moo3LlEfzU_1AgCR0Vd1xYlHurUAk5fmzwVT FhFjwzQ2srohZ2UAl2ErwXHA3oIlNCTjYNEH7-OWIatT0-iD5aKS7VmAPWOPiDRji0KT9FyVMB99HPruHeGV5P93FJa-ckQRhX-a-Iq4vbBsFK8m4Ny6ZdyiuEKdj2DGNcSVTtsFb7elnmoK-dd-VH2uqEJpdOTEhkdJbgW_1dFlj5ka5u4-qeABFbg6eWkX7IkJxk1AMTzMeN6kQlTCyQD-FiUvKMQu_1fhA5UbKduubRL121Zz7Pn-44ANkaKAj9Mx6Qev8xGO-oFXkPTqrr2SlOVhbbCtDxvZZqF3MPtmcC0Ue1JwTyZYXafcZn_ 19sGRYcek0f7TvCkm58TE_1UDRH6IZKd-L9VFG8ZcqlUjkYA9p4UMhXtdw3NkLwNuHoBCGMfpL5WP_164D-hSuOUmHuLyjtRYVhn2CgdqxvjKiQhseWZbjJDRItqLFYVXq2Ft MD8kldcIBSLlIsGXILZfODLF1NQQlPXzUlW313ThK8fmGmVXlM wCqiK-ZOL6cNDk0i3gfJdijIA4Rzf9FbZCrKrNbSlroa-jgw1WoUPDW7fi3nJ-ymC6-olSmB7QYmzolasKZMChjD_1nAh4lk-xwVVQTaBgj7OxpXsMuAr08ntjhVR_1pe7wm2lWI016DSzet7HU Mj1Dg5r2n1_1i-HsrHsmjPpuY1FCj7MeuucSnttY38o8bDCglY8CoQNk_1blRoTY Vf7ua8PiJ3DseTjg80WBkjQk8u3_1FXuMh0u-vdZTB-0cQ)"

Thanks, google. :smalltongue:

Mewtarthio

2013-11-06, 10:14 PM

Balmas

2013-11-07, 12:09 AM

Ah, PCs. They're the only people who will listen to a guy saying, "THis is a bad idea. IF you do this, you will die. Your bones will be bleached by the passage of time, and mothers will tell their children tales of your death to encourage them to pursue a career in civil engineering..." And then say, "So what are the modifiers?"

The Fury

2013-11-07, 12:13 PM

*Steals idea for one shot campaign*

OT, I've never had any PC's quite like that. Acting on OOC information gleaned from "cut-scenes" or introductions or whatever, sure, but never knowledge based on another PC's backstory.

I guess Wally was the sort of guy that loved knowing more than the rest of the players. Also, that character's backstory did become relevant to the campaign's plot. I guess he thought he'd be the one to decide how that particular plot thread turned out.

He wasn't.

By the way, let me know how that one-shot goes!

georgie_leech

2013-11-07, 12:49 PM

I guess Wally was the sort of guy that loved knowing more than the rest of the players. Also, that character's backstory did become relevant to the campaign's plot. I guess he thought he'd be the one to decide how that particular plot thread turned out.

He wasn't.

Heh.

By the way, let me know how that one-shot goes!

Thanks! I'd never considered the idea of a ritual of immortality going wrong quite like that before, and my usual players would probably all react differently enough to the unexpected development to make it interesting.

The Fury

2013-11-07, 01:01 PM

Thanks! I'd never considered the idea of a ritual of immortality going wrong quite like that before, and my usual players would probably all react differently enough to the unexpected development to make it interesting.

I thought it was clever of Sally's player to think of that too-- because hey, technically the ritual did work as advertized. It just didn't work in the way that Sally expected.

Sith_Happens

2013-11-08, 02:50 AM

I recently came up with a sort-of-similar backstory idea should I ever play in a high-level 3.5 campaign. Basically, the character would be an evil caster who starts to feel remorse for his actions, but worries that he's in too deep and would never be able to change... So he gives himself an extremely thorough Mindrape with a new life story more conductive to being good.

llehctim

2013-11-10, 04:14 PM

I also did something similar for one of my first 3.5 characters, where in my back story my character wished for immortality or something, and was reduced to a child permanently, and lost most of their magical control, causing 'magical leakage/inefficiency' that resulted in cinematic effects when spellcasting and having a slight necromantic magic aura around him (totally worth using a feat (actually 2 technically) for that imo).

The Fury

2013-11-15, 02:25 PM

If Trekkin wants some more placeholder posts, and if the rest of you would be interested in reading them, I could write some more stuff about this campaign. Wally was a pretty goofy guy.

Deffers

2013-11-15, 03:43 PM

I would be interested! And that way Trekkin can deal with whatever lab stuff is going down.

ReaderAt2046

2013-11-16, 12:04 PM

You know, I just realized something: Do you suppose that Marty's ludicrous SEV tactics are related to his predilection for playing "blaster" characters?

georgie_leech

2013-11-16, 12:20 PM

Get the biggest possible army/gun/fireball/hammer and go to town with it? Probably.

The Fury

2013-11-16, 09:31 PM

Get the biggest possible army/gun/fireball/hammer and go to town with it? Probably.

To his credit, in your typical D&D/D20 game it's pretty rare for that to not work.

Trekkin

2013-11-22, 11:49 PM

Just a heads up: I'm not updating the Files anymore. The existing pages will stay up until Google/Blogspot/entropy take them down.

The Grue

2013-11-23, 01:47 AM

Saddest of sad faces.

Malrone

2013-11-23, 05:15 AM

Ach. T'was a good run while it lasted though. Happy to have been along for as much of it as I was. I hope the blog stays up for a good while yet; more minds yet exists that could use its lessons. Of course, Dark Orchid will be forever more tainted within these forums by the foul touch of CC's ego.

Though, I must ask, is it just because the material ran out?

Sith_Happens

2013-11-23, 10:22 AM

Unlikely, seeing as Trekkin's implied a few times that SUEthulhuTech was merely the climax of a long career of bad gaming.

That, and the "Marty's backstory" entry promised that there was more where it came from.:smalleek:

CoffeeIncluded

2013-11-23, 01:54 PM

All good things must come to an end. And you've got some wonderful things here for the world to see!

Deffers

2013-11-23, 06:26 PM

Aw. We had a good run-- I'm nervous to ask why it won't be updated, but either way, Trekkin, know you brought a lot of enjoyment to a lot of people through your writing-- if you ever choose to do more writing of any kind be sure to let us know, 'cos you've kind of got fans.

I mean, we had three threads, a blog, and a spin-off setting based on your posts alone. That's pretty impressive!

The Glyphstone

2013-11-23, 10:35 PM

Clearly, school-employed ninjas with master hacking skills used the blog to crack Trekkin's IP address to his physical address, cross-referenced the information with the last-known address of all their alumni, then broke into his house in the dead of night to threaten him with unspeakable tortures if he ever writes anything again that could impugn upon the honor of the school or anyone who has ever attended it.

That sort of thing does happen in real life, right?:smallconfused:

A_Man

2013-11-24, 12:13 AM

Sad to hear, but it's been a fun run. ^_^

Arbane

2013-11-24, 04:40 AM

Like everyone else here, I'm sorry to hear we won't be getting more of you gaming horror stories, but I surely can't complain. Thanks for all the writing you did, and the struggle in the face of an idiotic universe that caused it.

The Fury

2013-11-24, 04:41 PM

On the plus side, I guess I won't need to get those other stories together after all. Though it is a bummer to see the SUE Files go. It has been fun though, and it's provided my own RPG group plenty of jokes and stuff.

The Grue

2013-11-24, 06:16 PM

I know I'll think of this blog whenever I pry a grilled cheese off my anvil.

Qwertystop

2013-11-24, 06:23 PM

I know I'll think of this blog whenever I pry a grilled cheese off my anvil.

You know, if you heat it up enough, an anvil could actually work pretty well as a griddle.

Why you would want that is another story.

captpike

2013-11-24, 06:30 PM

You know, if you heat it up enough, an anvil could actually work pretty well as a griddle.

Why you would want that is another story.

because you like your grilled cheese flat and uniform

TuggyNE

2013-11-24, 08:42 PM

because you like your grilled cheese flat and uniform

That's actually a thing in South America, at least sort of: they have combination griddles and presses used to make grilled cheese sandwiches "planchado". Never did figure out exactly why.

Deffers

2013-11-24, 08:57 PM

All silliness aside, though... I am wondering why Trekkin would just drop the whole thing on such short notice. Not even a long-term hiatus, which would be normal for lab classes-- just completely, forever, as though it didn't interest him.

Which is weird, because we absolutely know it did. Like I said, I'm kind of afraid to ask because I'm afraid of getting Trekkin in trouble if it IS something legal involving his school-- I'm not sure ninjas are required given how antsy Trekkin was about getting found out.

The last blog post is equally terse. Was he getting flamed by somebody? I doubt that's it. What happened? Things were going so well. It's even been a while since he posted on the Techronomicon thread.

I don't know if speculating is against the rules somehow-- if it is, I apologize-- but I am a little concerned and mostly curious.

The Grue

2013-11-25, 12:16 AM

You know, if you heat it up enough, an anvil could actually work pretty well as a griddle.

Why you would want that is another story.

Because it's the superior way to cook it. Don't you know that cheese and steel are exactly the same in their method of preperation?

The Fury

2013-11-25, 03:30 PM

Because it's the superior way to cook it. Don't you know that cheese and steel are exactly basically the same in their method of preperation?

fixed that for you.

The Grue

2013-11-25, 04:12 PM

Well done.

Sith_Happens

2013-11-25, 06:18 PM

The Fury

2013-11-26, 01:28 AM

You can always start your own thread and/or blog.

I could. Though I'm not sure I'd have many interested in reading it. After all the Wally stories are pretty tame compared to Chief Circle Marty, and the only real reason why anyone read them is because they were placeholders for Trekkin's next posts.

Besides I'm all stocked up on hookers. Naturally, I play blackjack with them.

The Grue

2013-11-26, 04:02 AM

I could. Though I'm not sure I'd have many interested in reading it. After all the Wally stories are pretty tame compared to Chief Circle Marty, and the only real reason why anyone read them is because they were placeholders for Trekkin's next posts.

I think it's a bit harsh to say that's the "only real reason" anyone read them.

Iruka

2013-11-29, 06:13 AM

Sad to read that. It was great entertainment.

Trekkin

2013-12-01, 03:35 PM

Just saw the speculation.

I guess I owe you all an explanation, for being such faithful readers.

In one week, I have had my career fall apart, my academic prospects implode, my job threatened and my car fail. Under the circumstances, it's going to be a while before I can return to PnP roleplaying without retching at the sheer irrelevance of it all. That's not to say that I begrudge everyone else their fun -- I just literally and metaphorically can't afford to care about it anymore. This was an arena where the Marties of the world are a laughingstock rather than the rulers of the world, and for a while I believed that to be at least plausible.

I'm just tired of being lied to, cheated, betrayed, insulted, and used, so I'm going to limit my contact with people for a while. I'm tired of being the good guy, I'm tired of donating my time to things that won't pay me back, and I'm tired of always being the little guy being graciously allowed fleeting consideration by the real people -- and above all else, I am omnicidally tired of being required to sit down, shut up, and silently be grateful that I had anything to lose in the first place.

So this is what I do. Sorry you all had to be, in some tiny way, inconvenienced by all this, but there you go.

Best of luck with your blog, Fury.

Deffers

2013-12-01, 04:17 PM

Dang, Trekkin, I'm sorry to hear that. Just don't let the Marties of the world beat you down. Sometimes things are... absurdly painful. Your life imploding-- I know what that's like.

But that's why I appreciated your stories-- it was a little way, in an upsetting part of my life, that I could see a person like Marty be stripped of all their self-importance and ridiculed. I'm not asking you to go back to writing your blog-- you're right to focus on keeping your life from detonating. I wasn't exactly a creative powerhouse when things got bad, and things DO feel irrelevant when you're in the middle of it.

So, I guess what I mean to say is-- just remember people appreciate you and don't want to see you get beaten down by life. Defy life when it tries to do that. I hope everything goes well for you and you pull through this.

The Fury

2013-12-02, 11:22 AM

Trekkin, you don't really owe us anything. That said, I really appreciate you taking the time to explain what's going on. I'm only sorry about all that, and it's understandable why you wouldn't feel like writing and why you'd feel that way about PnP RPGs. Heck, I've felt that way too. I suppose we can all hope that eventually things will improve for you, because you seem really nice and you deserve some happiness.

With you wishing me luck, I almost feel like I have to at least start my own thread. Let's see how it goes.

edit: Thread for the Wally adventures. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16536325#post16536325)

Icewraith

2013-12-02, 12:45 PM

PnP roleplaying isn't intended to be directly relevant to addressing the challenges in anyone's life. BUT...

At the end of the day, a good PnP roleplaying session is like mental weightlifting. You're addressing abstract challenges in an artificially rule-constrained environment, visualizing places and circumstances that don't actually exist, and (ideally) doing something enjoyable that doesn't stress you in the same way that job/school/life normally does. It may not directly benefit you, but the indirect benefits (especially the stress release) can be invaluable.

I sympathize with your situation (as someone who took the long road to his current career, I understand that life can get very nasty in a very short period of time), let me encourage you to keep swimming towards the shore, and if the shore turns out to be inhospitable, find a different shore and swim for that one instead. But, even if you need to stop putting effort into this blog hobby right now, don't let the downturns in your life prevent you from ever going back or devoting some free time to doing something you enjoy and are good at.

One of the reasons I think humans bother with hobbies is that we can only fixate on a particular series of challenges for so long before diminishing returns sets in. Even our ancient ancestors found some time to paint on cave walls in between fending off saber-toothed tigers, domesticating wolves, hunting mammoths, and inventing the wheel. (I'm sure some of that is actually wrong, if anyone has a career studying that corner of history I apologize, but I'm sure the cave painters had some other potentially lethal threats to deal with and feats to achieve if those aren't correct)

Grytorm

2013-12-02, 07:08 PM

I'm busy reading through these threads and the Blogs. I have just reached the Jin Down post which talks about what CC thinks about economics. It hurts.

CoffeeIncluded

2013-12-02, 10:34 PM

I am so sorry, Trekkin. I wish I know more to say. But maybe it's time for you to cut and run. I realize I know nothing about your situation though.

Chaoticag

2013-12-03, 12:07 AM

Sorry to hear about the situation, since this is the thread that made me get a Playground account, but I can't say I don't know what part of what you're going through feels like. As someone that has royally screwed up his first college experience, I can at least say that things tend to get better. Still, I do hope you the best of luck, and I find your loss disheartening.

The_Werebear

2013-12-03, 02:44 AM

Persist. There are places that the Marties can not reach. You will find a haven, especially with what talents for humor and analysis your blog showed.

Best of luck, and thank you for the laughter your tale shared with me.

Honest Tiefling

2013-12-03, 02:53 AM

Trekkin and Jin might not be here still, but I want to know that I appreciate the tales of their gaming (well, sorta gaming) experience. And again, best of luck to the both of you.

Deffers

2013-12-03, 03:30 AM

And, hey, I mean, look at all the support! Your thread also has not one, but TWO spinoff threads as of right now.

What I'm saying here is, don't discount your ability to get people to listen to you. It may come in useful! And remember all the support you got. The Marties of the world don't got that. :smallwink:

Silverbit

2013-12-03, 04:21 AM

Good luck Trekkin. Things don't look good for you at present, but I'm sure they'll get better. With this blog and stuff, you've proved you can engage a lot of people. Good luck, man.

Svata

2014-01-24, 05:13 PM

That moment when you finally try to binge-read the sue files threads, and get physically sick about halfway through the second thread from the sheer amount of stupidity... and the first thing you do after recovering you read the rest of the second and third threads. Why do I do this to myself?

Edit: Sorry if this falls outside the threadcromancy limit...

Arbane

2014-01-24, 08:22 PM

That moment when you finally try to binge-read the sue files threads, and get physically sick about halfway through the second thread from the sheer amount of stupidity... and the first thing you do after recovering you read the rest of the second and third threads. Why do I do this to myself?

Because the games you're in are nowhere near this bad, and you're enjoying the schadenfreude?

Edit: Sorry if this falls outside the threadcromancy limit...

It's only been a month, I think you're OK.

Sith_Happens

2014-01-24, 10:51 PM

That moment when you finally try to binge-read the sue files threads, and get physically sick about halfway through the second thread from the sheer amount of stupidity... and the first thing you do after recovering you read the rest of the second and third threads. Why do I do this to myself?

WE'VE GOT ANOTHER VICTIM! I NEED TEN CC'S OF ANTIDOTE (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?58227-Tales-of-Wyre), STAT!

BeerMug Paladin

2014-01-24, 11:29 PM

Hey, I lurked on this forum for a long time, reading posts now and then but never really regularly checking things out. The SUE files was what got me reading the forum regularly, even though this is the first time I've made a post to it.

I'm sure there's lots more folks out there who are hiding on the frayed edges of this thread, shrouded in the fringes of sanity they once knew. Breaking out in a cold sweat at the thought of these events, trying to forget.

Deffers

2014-01-25, 12:55 AM

I'm the same way! I think my first post to this forum, ever, was in thread 1. In fact, I just checked, and it was. I had such awesome ideas to share about how I thought Trekkin could defeat Marty. Not a one of them was proven to be functional, but I do believe that my diatribe on Old Man Henderson and driving a truck through a coffee shop while covered completely in coffee grounds (and nothing else) may have influenced certain events in the story. I fervently hope so, at any rate.

Man, that unfolding plot was some fun times. Honestly, it lit my day up a little bit when a new development would happen.

Arbane

2014-01-29, 05:45 PM

Trekkin

2014-02-19, 06:36 PM

Llectim, on the off-chance you're reading this thread: Did you ever get the full backstory on Our Glorious Katanalord, Gary Stu? (The uberNPC, not the idiot GM who spawned him - or vice versa, if you believe his backstory.... :smalleek:)

Whether or not he did, we've all had a ton of hard drives die since then. The chances of more of it surviving are slim.

Also, hello again, everyone. Stuff has gotten better far faster than anticipated; better enough, at least, for me to sincerely regret putting you through my self-pitying drivel a few months ago. Apparently I get melodramatic after many, many grad school SOPs conflate with other bad things. Not quite sure what to do with the blog, though. There are other bad GMing stories, but they all concern GMs who, other than a few specific mistakes, fell within one standard rant of medicore, if you will.

I do have one thing in mind, though, and for that I need opinions of the sort everyone has been excellent at providing. Given all the crap I've given Marty for, well, his universe-hopping saturnalia of solipsism, how gauche would it be to put together a setting loosely based on the same basic premise (universes) only working against the infantile dictatorship guarding time, space, and canon (with the caveat that this will probably use exclusively purpose-built settings with nothing beyond pointed allusions to previously published works)? And use the posts outlining it as a way of satiring his advice to me on how to DM?

See, I have all these half-finished settings that are fairly thematically similar, and it occurs to me that this would be an interesting way to explain the similarities beyond my crippling creative sterility; at the same time, it'd be an interesting Gedankenexperiment to try to put together a set of rules for translation between works built for the purpose in the hopes of letting as many people contribute as freely as possible without losing cohesion.

But that's just me babbling. Point is, I'm back, and I do still have a little content, so...sorry for being all snippy last time.

georgie_leech

2014-02-19, 06:54 PM

-snip-

Yes, how dare you be overwhelmed by all of life's trials and tribulations!:smalltongue:

Seriously, great to hear that things are going smoothly again. I can't really comment on your plans, because I'm torn between seeing how far it could go, and fear that Marty would somehow corrupt and take over the venture.

squiggit

2014-02-19, 07:07 PM

how gauche would it be to put together a setting loosely based on the same basic premise (universes) only working against the infantile dictatorship guarding time, space, and canon (with the caveat that this will probably use exclusively purpose-built settings with nothing beyond pointed allusions to previously published works)?

Not at all. One of the driving thoughts I've had about the stories and setting presented was that they could have been really cool if played in a different fashion. Hell even some of the absurd NPCs described could have been interesting if played differently. If you could actually flip it around, even in the loosest way, it'd only reinforce the points being made here about the DM in question.

Axinian

2014-02-19, 07:09 PM

Qwertystop

2014-02-19, 07:11 PM

Seems interesting - though without having an existing story playing out, it might be tricky to define "canon," and awkward to call it that. Maybe each world has its own destiny, and none of them are supposed to interlock?

Just feels wrong to call it canon in this situation, since the whole point of the anti-restriction groups would presumably be that it's not already written.

Trekkin

2014-02-19, 07:16 PM

Glad to see you back! :smallsmile:

I think that setting is a cool idea, although a potential danger in making it is getting caught up in the satire instead of making it fun. Only do it if you think you'll have fun making the actual setting, apart from the satirical aspect.

Oh, I was quite worried about the opposite happening. A good sign, then, that it will successfully do both!

And Qwertystop, I admit it was an awkward way to reference the original MIC. "canon" here will probably end up meaning something like "the hyperspecific and completely unattainable course of events intended by the locally omnipotent entities running the show."

So it's what they think is fate, yes. "No fate but what we make" and all that. The point is, loosely, to explore certain of the ontological entailments of having a "way things are supposed to go" and expecting free-willed entities to adhere to it. A la Tarquin, actually.

CoffeeIncluded

2014-02-19, 07:17 PM

Fantastic to see you back, Trekkin! I'm really glad things are going better for you.

And I think that would be a fantastic game idea.

NotAnAardvark

2014-02-19, 07:18 PM

Just as long as you edit out that bit about the evil empire being totally useless because they can't actually change anything.

I was surprised that never came up in the original blog re: Marty's Empire. Like I know he would have handwaved it off but I'm still surprised it didn't get a mention that the inevitability clause meant his kingdom should implode.

I guess it's not any stupider than 1d6 lasrifles and 4d8 blasters.

Silverbit

2014-02-19, 07:21 PM

Trekkin! Yes, you're back! This is a good day now!

That game idea sounds pretty damn good to me; have you heard of an old RPG called Lords of Creation? It's kind of a similar premise. It's a bit clunky in the execution, but if you look up information about it you might get some ideas.

Kish

2014-02-19, 08:45 PM

Sith_Happens

2014-02-19, 08:50 PM

As for your other bad GM stories, there's a thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=329243) for that now. Also a good potential source of guest-blog-posts if you want to keep those going.

Eldest

2014-02-19, 09:07 PM

Silverbit

2014-02-19, 09:22 PM

...do you mean the god-setting-creation game or something else?

I'm referring to this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lords_of_Creation_(role-playing_game)), not the setting game. The setting game is quite different, I believe. I've not played either, I just thought it sounded appropriate.

Trekkin

2014-02-19, 09:45 PM

I'm very glad to hear you're doing better, Trekkin.

Y'know, things really do occur to me some time after reading your blog (Fridge Logic, so to speak). Today, it was, "Wait. If Marty was saying Cael, with 17 Intelligence, wasn't nearly smart enough to think of all those hundreds of things Trekkin was thinking of...

...what was he implying Trekkin's Intelligence stat would be? 25? 30? Higher?"

Well, he had to significantly change the standard deviation of the IQ plot to make his IQ map to 18, which has some fun effects down the line.

I say this because, by remapping the two bell curves (which is precisely what he did; 10 is always the average) and converting between the two, my Int stat should be 70.:smalleek: I rather wish I'd weaselled an offer to play myself out of him, now; I could have used the skill points.

Eldest

2014-02-19, 10:04 PM

I'm referring to this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lords_of_Creation_(role-playing_game)), not the setting game. The setting game is quite different, I believe. I've not played either, I just thought it sounded appropriate.

Huh. It does sound neat. The review is a bit strong, though.

Well, he had to significantly change the standard deviation of the IQ plot to make his IQ map to 18, which has some fun effects down the line.

I say this because, by remapping the two bell curves (which is precisely what he did; 10 is always the average) and converting between the two, my Int stat should be 70.:smalleek: I rather wish I'd weaselled an offer to play myself out of him, now; I could have used the skill points.

I almost want to know what he mapped it to, but that would then let everyone know your IQ, and so I'm going to stop this run on sentence now.

Kish

2014-02-19, 10:07 PM

That's hilarious. He really did make a formal "everyone in this universe is an imbecile" rule.

Qwertystop

2014-02-19, 10:14 PM

Hm. So, even though he was nowhere near the tail of one curve, he put himself at the tail of the other?

Necroticplague

2014-02-19, 10:29 PM

Typical curve I've always seen for trying to match IQ to int score is simply points of modifier*10+100. Not perfect, but at least relatively bell shaped (assuming plain 3d6 stat rolling). Makes a range from 60-140 (relatively realistic curve), and makes it so the initials can't get too implausibly high or low.

Trekkin

2014-02-19, 10:48 PM

Oh, I was using the one where the mean IQ is 100 and the standard deviation is 15, so the Int score associated with a given IQ is ((IQ-100)/15)*2.96 + 10.5 and the relative abundances of rolls match up with the relative abundances of IQs. Int 3 maps to 62, Int 18 maps to 138.

Then Chief decides to compress the whole thing mightily and yes, everything gets implausible. Suddenly basic arithmetic is incomprehensible and Boccob is fruitlessly trying to teach Olidammara to read at a fifth-grade level.

Sith_Happens

2014-02-19, 10:59 PM

Welp, time to add "normal distribution" to the list of Things Marty Fails at Forever.

Mewtarthio

2014-02-19, 11:11 PM

Just as long as you edit out that bit about the evil empire being totally useless because they can't actually change anything.

I was surprised that never came up in the original blog re: Marty's Empire. Like I know he would have handwaved it off but I'm still surprised it didn't get a mention that the inevitability clause meant his kingdom should implode.

Don't forget, Marty was some sort of supyr-ubyr-vampyr-Authyr with the power to rewrite canon or something.

lord pringle

2014-02-20, 01:05 AM

Whether or not he did, we've all had a ton of hard drives die since then. The chances of more of it surviving are slim.

Also, hello again, everyone. Stuff has gotten better far faster than anticipated; better enough, at least, for me to sincerely regret putting you through my self-pitying drivel a few months ago. Apparently I get melodramatic after many, many grad school SOPs conflate with other bad things. Not quite sure what to do with the blog, though. There are other bad GMing stories, but they all concern GMs who, other than a few specific mistakes, fell within one standard rant of medicore, if you will.

I do have one thing in mind, though, and for that I need opinions of the sort everyone has been excellent at providing. Given all the crap I've given Marty for, well, his universe-hopping saturnalia of solipsism, how gauche would it be to put together a setting loosely based on the same basic premise (universes) only working against the infantile dictatorship guarding time, space, and canon (with the caveat that this will probably use exclusively purpose-built settings with nothing beyond pointed allusions to previously published works)? And use the posts outlining it as a way of satiring his advice to me on how to DM?

See, I have all these half-finished settings that are fairly thematically similar, and it occurs to me that this would be an interesting way to explain the similarities beyond my crippling creative sterility; at the same time, it'd be an interesting Gedankenexperiment to try to put together a set of rules for translation between works built for the purpose in the hopes of letting as many people contribute as freely as possible without losing cohesion.

But that's just me babbling. Point is, I'm back, and I do still have a little content, so...sorry for being all snippy last time.

Yay! You're back! I think that would be a really awesome thing to read.

NotAnAardvark

2014-02-20, 01:25 AM

supyr-ubyr-vampyr-Authyr.

We should replace all vowels with y. Seriously.

Also it's really weird but also seriously; those weapon damage comparisons he made up piss me off almost as much as anything else in the blog. 1d6 for a rifle when its counterpart is 4d8? No.

Svata

2014-02-20, 01:49 AM

I like the idea, Trekkin.

Trekkin

2014-02-20, 01:55 AM

We should replace all vowels with y. Seriously.

Also it's really weird but also seriously; those weapon damage comparisons he made up piss me off almost as much as anything else in the blog. 1d6 for a rifle when its counterpart is 4d8? No.

No kidding; Marty never really bought into statistics. Ordinary folk might be swayed by arguments of probability or subtraction or hours upon hours of playtesting, but Marty understands logic: he built the system, so logically he must know how it works better than anyone else. Anyone who thinks differently has simply failed to account for some facet of the rules, often one that didn't exist until after Marty started trying to explain it.

Deffers

2014-02-20, 02:12 AM

Oh, man, Trekkin has RETURNED! I am bashing the loudest of cymbals in joy at this occasion. Loud cymbal warehouses are normal, you see.

And I like your setting idea. I like it a lot, in fact!

squiggit

2014-02-20, 02:56 AM

Anyone who thinks differently has simply failed to account for some facet of the rules, often one that didn't exist until after Marty started trying to explain it.

One thing that's always sort of interested me is settings where your typical expectation of perspectives are reversed. What would say, 1984 look like if it was written from the perspective of a member of the inner party or someone in the outer party who happened to be a true believer.

In that regard I do think Marty provides an interesting sort of perspective of what someone in that position might think or feel. Chilling perhaps and more than a little alien in some regards, but still very intriguing. At least IMO.

BeerMug Paladin

2014-02-20, 03:03 AM

Oh, I was quite worried about the opposite happening. A good sign, then, that it will successfully do both!

And Qwertystop, I admit it was an awkward way to reference the original MIC. "canon" here will probably end up meaning something like "the hyperspecific and completely unattainable course of events intended by the locally omnipotent entities running the show."

So it's what they think is fate, yes. "No fate but what we make" and all that. The point is, loosely, to explore certain of the ontological entailments of having a "way things are supposed to go" and expecting free-willed entities to adhere to it. A la Tarquin, actually.
You could have the bad-guy faction basically insist that the multiverse gateways are unnatural, so any use of them or any trading between the universes are deemed to be a violation of their policy that the multiverse denizens should never interact with one another or move through different universes. All technology, magic, ideas, people, etc must be native to their home universe or they are expunged.

The bad-guy faction, can use the portals as much as they want, since they need to do and get the best magic and technology to ensure they can enforce their ideology on everyone else. And of course, it also is a way to prevent another competing organization from forming.

In worlds with fate/destiny/prophecy, this can tie more directly into enforcing canon. Maybe the organization recruited mystics from a setting to tell the future and just transported them into other universes they have a controlling stake in? Maybe the mystics aren't reliable in all universes, but the organization doesn't care, they just know their supposed prediction didn't play out correctly, so they send out a team to dig into the world and do what they can to force things the way it should have gone and punish those they think are responsible?

Perhaps you could even have some corruption in the ranks of the bad-guy organization. People who are in a position of power could approve raids in universes where they can enslave at will and plunder vast fortunes easily. In fact, considering the nature of the organization, this kind of makes sense to have the ideology unevenly (and haphazardly) enforced by the people who get to decide what the fates of other people ought to be.

Arbane

2014-02-20, 04:17 AM

Well, he had to significantly change the standard deviation of the IQ plot to make his IQ map to 18, which has some fun effects down the line.

I say this because, by remapping the two bell curves (which is precisely what he did; 10 is always the average) and converting between the two, my Int stat should be 70.:smalleek: I rather wish I'd weaselled an offer to play myself out of him, now; I could have used the skill points.

Good to have you back, Trekkin!

I've heard it said that one common flaw of bad writing is to try to show how 'smart' a character is by having everyone else be idiots. Sounds like CC tried to enforce that on your characters the entire universe.

We should replace all vowels with y. Seriously.

You mean 'syriously'.

TuggyNE

2014-02-20, 04:33 AM

You mean 'syriously'.

Syryyysly. What, too much?

Sith_Happens

2014-02-20, 05:12 AM

Syryyysly. What, too much?

Nyt yt yll.

Feddlefew

2014-02-20, 05:14 AM

Good to see you back, Trekkin. I was getting worried you'd ended up like a protagonists from a bad Lovecraft fan novel. :smallbiggrin:

Syryyysly. What, too much?
Fixed that for you.

Edit: I'm pretending statistics and things relating to them haven't mentioned in the last few pages. It's too early to weep bitter tears and/or froth in incoherent rage.

Lord Raziere

2014-02-20, 05:14 AM

yh cymy yn gyys, ny pyrply tyxt? fyr shymy.

Trekkin

2014-02-20, 06:33 AM

We're also forgoing the surplus Ks, Ws, Xs, and Zs to make everything more xtrymly kywl.

As an aside, I have to worry that we're approaching a working lexicon for Marty's forces; we could never understand them without a translator, but they had exactly the same grammar as English.

And now I'm remembering Lelouch and Thrawn looking down at a map table and discussing their Grynd Strytygy...and, for whatever reason, I seem to read everything written with all wyes in Eric Cartman's annoyed voice.

Marty's speeches to his subjects take on a new light as well.

Svata

2014-02-20, 08:47 AM

So with SKR out of a job, and this thread being active, I trid to imagine what kind of wreck of a game SKR and Marty would design if workng together, and woke up laying right outside my apartment. When I went inside my walls were covered with the word no, written on every accessible inch of them, and my bedroom was a shoggoth. Sounds about right.

Edit: In retrospect I suppose I got off lightly.

Qwertystop

2014-02-20, 11:25 AM

As an aside, I have to worry that we're approaching a working lexicon for Marty's forces; we could never understand them without a translator, but they had exactly the same grammar as English.

Zyw hyw dyd yyy knyw thyt?

(so how did you know that?)

(also wow "you" goes weird with this filter)

Eldest

2014-02-20, 11:29 AM

georgie_leech

2014-02-20, 11:36 AM

(also wow "you" goes weird with this filter)

So does "yay," "yea," and "yeo." It's perfect! Needlessly confusing terminology for the purpose of waffling! "Ny ny, "Yyy" Myn, ys yn Yys myn, lyky tyydyys. Y cyn't bylyyvy yyy thyyght Y myynt lyky thy fyryst gyys.

No no, "Yea" Men, as in Yes men, like toadies. I can't believe you thought I meant like the forest guys.

Feddlefew

2014-02-20, 11:49 AM

This forum needs a good horrified face. Just at the concept of the two of them working together. You got off very lightly, your situation deserves only a :smallfrown:

Who/What is SKR, and what horrors have they unleashed onto the world?

(Scratch that last question if they're behind The Worst Game Ever Made that Should Not Be Mentioned in Polite Company.)

squiggit

2014-02-20, 11:50 AM

I'm worried if you guys keep this up you might summon something.

georgie_leech

2014-02-20, 11:55 AM

Who/What is SKR, and what horrors have they unleashed onto the world?

(Scratch that last question if they're behind The Worst Game Ever Made that Should Not Be Mentioned in Polite Company.)

Not that bad, he is/was one of the more vitriolic designers on the Paizo forums, and he had... interesting ideas on what constitutes balance. Like, that a feat that provides +1 to attacks with a single weapon is almost twice as good as the one that lets the Bear riding a Bear summon extra Bears without having to stop being a Bear, or that all the roleplaying and power of concerns of having an army of potentially hundreds of devoted followers is worth a little less than getting a +2 to rarely used skills.

Trekkin

2014-02-20, 03:07 PM

(so how did you know that?)

Oh, we didn't in character.
Someone asked him once at lunch about translating it, and he happened to be in an explicatory mood; the response was a completely normal Marty whinge-a-thon in which we got some snippets. Not particularly memorable or impactful on the story. (I think Rick had asked about snooping on their communications?) Had we gotten close, the grammar would probably have changed as per normal, but for the time being it was fairly easy to spot the plural nouns and subject-verb agreement and other things that made it more likely to be English than horribly mangled Japanese, those being the only two languages in which he's ever actually communicated with another human being.

The odds of him having invented a completely new grammar are also low, since he thinks a bizarre font is a nearly-unbreakable code.

Eldest

2014-02-20, 04:12 PM

Oh, we didn't in character.
Someone asked him once at lunch about translating it, and he happened to be in an explicatory mood; the response was a completely normal Marty whinge-a-thon in which we got some snippets. Not particularly memorable or impactful on the story. (I think Rick had asked about snooping on their communications?) Had we gotten close, the grammar would probably have changed as per normal, but for the time being it was fairly easy to spot the plural nouns and subject-verb agreement and other things that made it more likely to be English than horribly mangled Japanese, those being the only two languages in which he's ever actually communicated with another human being.

The odds of him having invented a completely new grammar are also low, since he thinks a bizarre font is a nearly-unbreakable code.

...copy...paste...

Snowyowl

2014-02-20, 06:09 PM

Just finished reading the epic. It sounded quite bearable and practically fun, until I remembered you were only posting the interesting bits and there were several sessions in which the players did literally nothing.

Anyway, your Cheese Forge has latched onto another idea deep in my brain, a setting that I sketched out half a page of notes for and then promptly binned. The idea was a cookie-cutter High Fantasy in which the hero would be sent out by his master on a great quest to (drumroll...) make a pizza. Either for reasons symbolically tied to the stability of certain obscure semi-elemental planes and hence the fate of the multiverse, or because everyone in the world down to the pizza delivery boy is chronically unable to do anything in a non-questing manner.

This would involve collecting four ingredients - dough, tomato paste, cheese, and pepperoni (or whatever topping was most appropriate). I'd gotten as far as deciding that tomato paste would be refined from mineral deposits before giving up for lack of ideas (you didn't think that stuff actually came from tomatoes, did you?).

The cheese forges fit in worryingly well, not least because they start an elemental theme around the four ingredients. The pepperoni, then, is actually slices of tentacle from the Spiced Kraken, and the dough is somehow connected with Air - perhaps it's made from clouds.

I still don't think I'll ever do anything with this, but at least it's a completed story outline now.

Qwertystop

2014-02-20, 06:34 PM

Though the original idea is completely ridiculous, your beginnings of an elemental theme there sort of justify it.

I mean, would you want to be the one hunting a kraken just for pepperoni? Get the intern to do it!

Feddlefew

2014-02-20, 07:27 PM

I suppose a giant, magically-motorized pizza cutter wouldn't be the most ridiculous fantasy weapon ever. Hell, it could even be kind of like Kingdom of Loathing, with cooking being the source of all magic.

TeChameleon

2014-02-20, 08:51 PM

... wow, the archives for the Nodwick comics suck >.<

But the whole elemental-pizza-thing sounds hauntingly like Aaron Williams' parody of the Temple of Elemental Evil, right down to the Pizza elemental (or it might have been a mushroom or something, don't remember and the archives, as previously mentioned, suck to the point of unworkability).

Still kind of funny, but it's weird when things parallel like that. Strange minds think alike, I guess? :smalltongue:

Deophaun

2014-02-20, 09:16 PM

The odds of him having invented a completely new grammar are also low, since he thinks a bizarre font is a nearly-unbreakable code.
While bother with 256-bit encryption, when you can use Wingdings?

I'm sorry... I meant Wyngdyngz.

Arbane

2014-02-21, 02:09 AM

I suppose a giant, magically-motorized pizza cutter wouldn't be the most ridiculous fantasy weapon ever.

In The Night Land (really old weird-fantasy novel), the hero's main weapon was essentially a motorized buzzsaw on a stick.

(Good book, BTW, though the style is rather archaic and wordy.)

Big Fau

2014-02-21, 07:37 AM

In The Night Land (really old weird-fantasy novel), the hero's main weapon was essentially a motorized buzzsaw on a stick.

You can make one in Dead Rising.

Max™

2014-02-21, 09:29 AM

Ok, between "For No Conceivable Reason!" and 'why are they pushing this huge crate with a shield generator under a tarp on casters by hand?' "...it's more inconspicuous that way" I hurt my throat laughing.

Lord Torath

2014-02-21, 05:14 PM

So does "yay," "yea," and "yeo." It's perfect! Needlessly confusing terminology for the purpose of waffling! "Ny ny, "Yyy" Myn, ys yn Yys myn, lyky tyydyys. Y cyn't bylyyvy yyy thyyght Y myynt lyky thy fyryst gyys.

No no, "Yea" Men, as in Yes men, like toadies. I can't believe you thought I meant like the forest guys.

I'm worried if you guys keep this up you might summon something.Uh oh. At the top of the page is an add for "The Terrific Trio: The Wyrld's Last Best Hope." You just had to go and do it, didn't you.

(Here's the link if you're interested. I'm not, but I figured I'd provide it for when the ad changes: http://tophatcomics.com/travellerhome.html?pw-ab=58282)

Qwertystop

2014-02-21, 06:06 PM

Wait... are we counting "y" as a vowel for the purpose of replacing all vowels with the letter "y"?

The Glyphstone

2014-02-21, 06:13 PM

Wait... are we counting "y" as a vowel for the purpose of replacing all vowels with the letter "y"?

Yys.Wyrdswyrds

TuggyNE

2014-02-21, 09:31 PM

Wait... are we counting "y" as a vowel for the purpose of replacing all vowels with the letter "y"?

Does it matter? Nyt hyrdly.

Bucky

2014-02-22, 03:24 PM

I'm very glad to hear you're doing better, Trekkin.

Y'know, things really do occur to me some time after reading your blog (Fridge Logic, so to speak). Today, it was, "Wait. If Marty was saying Cael, with 17 Intelligence, wasn't nearly smart enough to think of all those hundreds of things Trekkin was thinking of...

...what was he implying Trekkin's Intelligence stat would be? 25? 30? Higher?"

It appears that the Intelligence stat in the Martyverse doesn't mean IQ, it means the ability to use IQ to get stuff done. Intelligence increases strongly with IQ until Marty level and then declines slowly afterwards.

ReaderAt2046

2014-02-22, 03:59 PM

squiggit

2014-02-22, 05:02 PM

Gotta keep in mind that intelligence is tied to wealth and time spent in learning institutions too.

Cael was poor and not a collegiate so he'd never have the ability to make anything.

It might actually be a plausible excuse given Marty's bit about there being absolutely no books on apparently any subject whatsoever outside universities and the military.

My favorite line about Cael though had to be slashing his staring money because "no one that maladjusted could be rich" though.

Trekkin

2014-02-22, 09:15 PM

Or even calling Cael "maladjusted", as though resisting the people trying to catch and incarcerate people like him was some sort of childish prank.

Arbane

2014-02-22, 10:53 PM

Morbis Meh

2014-02-24, 04:34 PM

By Crom, our prophet Trekkin has returned! I would gladly subject myself to this setting if by any chance it came into creation. I am also glad to hear everything is working itself out for you Trekkin (I only hope my experience with Grad School will be less stressful).

Sith_Happens

2014-02-24, 05:56 PM

Speaking of settings, how's that CTech rewrite/reboot coming along?

Deffers

2014-02-24, 06:34 PM

I think Techronomicon kind of died. Now Trekkin's back, though, so that might return to life. It's still in the world-building forum right on here, I'm pretty sure, though.

Eldest

2014-02-25, 08:13 PM

I think I've come up with a good term for CC's GMing style: "BSDMing". Because of the resemblance of the play style to certain sexual kinks (but without the fun or the safewords), and the fact he's a BS DM.

(I can't believe I'm saying this)

No. BDSM is about trust, power exchange and communication. Not comparable.

ReaderAt2046

2014-02-26, 12:53 PM

Chief Circle had better pray to Ao-Sue that he gets a gamer judge, then.

One who's never met any of his players. Is it possible to get sentenced to death in a lawsuit? :smallbiggrin:

Apparently it is. (http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1990-10-23/)

Trekkin

2014-02-27, 03:13 AM

New post. (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2014/02/after-end.html)

Probably only going to announce these here when they have CC's "advice" in them; everything else would fit better in homebrew.

Svata

2014-02-27, 11:22 AM

Yay, new stuff!

BeerMug Paladin

2014-02-27, 01:39 PM

It will be interesting to see what you come up with. I'll try to helpfully criticise when possible.

Vknight

2014-02-28, 04:14 AM

And I'll be belligerent and unresponsive to the ideas that would be not super cool without katanas

So we get the full experience!

Eldan

2014-02-28, 07:18 AM

I think Techronomicon kind of died. Now Trekkin's back, though, so that might return to life. It's still in the world-building forum right on here, I'm pretty sure, though.

I'm still playing around with it from time to time. That said, since I was apparently the only one using the Wiki, I lost my motivation, too. So all I have is a desk drawer full of text on random pieces of paper, sketches of space stations and mechs on the back of receipts and notes along the lines of "Nyarlathotep =? Egyptian billionaire" or "Montgolfier, find more ballooners" or "baroque space suit?" or "Who the **** is Ashcroft", scribbled on the margin of lab journals.

The_Werebear

2014-02-28, 09:11 AM

. So all I have is a desk drawer full of text on random pieces of paper, sketches of space stations and mechs on the back of receipts and notes along the lines of "Nyarlathotep =? Egyptian billionaire" or "Montgolfier, find more ballooners" or "baroque space suit?" or "Who the **** is Ashcroft", scribbled on the margin of lab journals.

Sounds Lovecraftian to me.

Friv

2014-02-28, 12:02 PM

I'm still playing around with it from time to time. That said, since I was apparently the only one using the Wiki, I lost my motivation, too. So all I have is a desk drawer full of text on random pieces of paper, sketches of space stations and mechs on the back of receipts and notes along the lines of "Nyarlathotep =? Egyptian billionaire" or "Montgolfier, find more ballooners" or "baroque space suit?" or "Who the **** is Ashcroft", scribbled on the margin of lab journals.

Yeah, I was sort of playing around with it, too, but the trend of the thread was moving much more hard sci-fi than I'd envisioned, and I figured I'd let you guys run with it rather than commit to yet another unfinished project.

I should pull up all my random doodles and add them back to the thread to kick it off; I've been reading the original Lovecraft stories, lately, and refreshing myself on them.

Eldan

2014-02-28, 12:07 PM

Yeah, I was sort of playing around with it, too, but the trend of the thread was moving much more hard sci-fi than I'd envisioned, and I figured I'd let you guys run with it rather than commit to yet another unfinished project.

I should pull up all my random doodles and add them back to the thread to kick it off; I've been reading the original Lovecraft stories, lately, and refreshing myself on them.

I've only ever read a handful of Lovecraft stories, but a few weeks ago, I got a Complete Lovecraft. A black tome of about 1200 pages wwith a a gorgeous cover, so I had to buy it.

I told myself I'd read at leats one of his shorter stories every day, but his first few works are just... bad. Really, just flat bad. So, it's an uphill struggle.

Deffers

2014-02-28, 01:23 PM

Eldan

2014-02-28, 02:47 PM

Yeah. I read The Quantum Thief just two weeks or so ago, that got my interest back into Science Fiction and from there to the Techronomicon. Since we said that there would be a Phyle of "Rockies", i.e. Baroque-inspired people, on Venus, I started thinking from there. Balloon cities were a given, high up in the liveable parts of the atmosphere. Quantum Thief had Montgolfierville (though on Mars), so I took that. For the space suit... well. I needed some fashion. So I googled pictures of cavalier fashion and started combining that with early armoured diving suits for the Venusian look. Never got anything that looked all that good, but it's a start.

For illustration purposes:

Take one part this:
http://fashionhistory.zeesonlinespace.net/images/baroque8.gif
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a5/Medinacelli.jpg/423px-Medinacelli.jpg

And one part this:
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/18kwwmavxrorvjpg.jpg

I already thought that the look of a wig could easily be adapted into something like this:
http://media1.gameinformer.com/imagefeed/featured/electronic-arts/bioware/masseffect2/tali0703-610.jpg

ReaderAt2046

2014-02-28, 02:51 PM

Over the past while, I've seen people on this forum, people who had shown no prior signs of gibbering lunacy, repeatedly attempt to invoke Marty as a character in their games or stories. Now I know how a H.P. Lovecraft protagonist feels when the cultists try to summon Cthulhu.

Deffers

2014-02-28, 02:57 PM

Yeah. I read The Quantum Thief just two weeks or so ago, that got my interest back into Science Fiction and from there to the Techronomicon. Since we said that there would be a Phyle of "Rockies", i.e. Baroque-inspired people, on Venus, I started thinking from there. Balloon cities were a given, high up in the liveable parts of the atmosphere. Quantum Thief had Montgolfierville (though on Mars), so I took that. For the space suit... well. I needed some fashion. So I googled pictures of cavalier fashion and started combining that with early armoured diving suits for the Venusian look. Never got anything that looked all that good, but it's a start.

See, I was intrigued by the possibility of the more skin-tight experimental space-suits that never got off the ground because materials science isn't there yet, and then adding baroque designs to something more form-fitting. It obviously wouldn't work on all places-- maybe on the aerostats, but the further down you'd go the more boned you would be using one of those.

Friv

2014-02-28, 03:22 PM

Baroque space suit... yeah, there's nothing that's not right about that.

It seems I can't find the original Techronomicon thread, however, so that might be a bit of a hurdle. We had a lot of good ideas we never transferred out to the wiki.

EDIT: And I do mean "nothing that's not right about that" sincerely. It was actually something I was thinking about too.

Bam! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=309935)

You couldn't find it because it got too old, which means we might have to start a new thread to resume it; necro is an issue.

georgie_leech

2014-02-28, 03:58 PM

Bam! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=309935)

You couldn't find it because it got too old, which means we might have to start a new thread to resume it; necro is an issue.

PM a Mod for permission, though needing to start a new one and linking to the old isn't the worst thing in the world.

Eldan

2014-02-28, 04:21 PM

I'll start a new one tomorrow. I'll have a lot of time, so I can write a lengthy opening post, outlining what I remember of the timeline.

spineyrequiem

2014-02-28, 07:10 PM

Hooray, you're back!

Having read through this a few times, I quite fancy making a character like Arn'Gyrn(or whatever) as an NPC in one of my less straight-laced campaigns (all of them). That is, in the sense of having a ridiculous number of secret identities, all spying on each other and reporting back to further secret identities. Only I'll have him clearly not coping, constantly arriving looking very ruffled and occasionally using the wrong voice or knocking his wig off, forcing him to mind-wipe everyone in the room. Obviously, I'd have him using increasingly preposterous accents and disguises as the players met more and more secret identities, until they caught on and asked him, at which point he'd hotly deny it. Later, a pale servant-boy with a limp and huge, obviously false nose (Arn'Gyr) would pass them a note saying to meet the buxom, screechy-voiced Countess (Arn'Gyr) who would tell them in hushed tones that their elderly patron, the baron of the local province was really... Arn'Gyr!

Eldan

2014-03-01, 11:50 AM

Okay. Made this. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17099760#post17099760) It's just an outline, explaining the world (as I remember it), but I think I made it more or less coherent.

Deffers

2014-03-01, 01:03 PM

Shiny! Fresh! Squamous and Rugose! I love it!

I wonder if Techronomicon could be one of the settings in Trekkin's meta-setting. Maybe an alt-version? Who knows?

CoffeeIncluded

2014-03-02, 05:41 PM

I've been thinking this for a while, but I can think of a way to make Marty's general idea fun, in a completely bonkers and not-taking-this-at-all-seriously way. Let's go with the core premise: When someone creates and publishes a fictional work, the world of that work then pops into existence in an undefined plane of existence. So there's a world of Pokemon, a world of Harry Potter, a world of Fullmetal Alchemist, a world of Discworld, a world of...well, you get the picture by now.

Now what happens when someone gets into these worlds and starts wreaking havoc? Say you've got someone writing a terrible fanfiction that threatens to tear the actual world the fanfiction is set in apart, because it's just that bad. Good fanworks help to stabilize the world (though usually not as well as the original author's additions to the setting through more stories or whatever), but terrible ones threaten to tear it apart. So what now?

Enter the PC's. Somehow, the PC's have the ability to travel between each of these worlds. So they're tasked with finding and hunting down the people who are tearing the world apart (if we're going with terrible fanfiction, then that would be Mary Sue characters and maybe even clouds of awful grammar taken on physical form or something like that) and restore stability to the canonical worlds.

You couldn't take a campaign like that seriously, but you don't have to do that to be entertaining.

Sith_Happens

2014-03-03, 01:34 AM

[Snip]

So basically, Protectors of the Plot Continuum (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WebOriginal/ProtectorsOfThePlotContinuum?from=Main.ProtectorsO fThePlotContinuum): The RPG.

Deffers

2014-03-03, 01:55 AM

Yunno, I feel like we might not want to veer too much into PPC territory. Let me explain. As the PPC link might demonstrate, Protectors of the Plot Continuum is actually an established thing, and we don't want to be too similar to that. Besides, we then lose the "stick it to the ridiculous trench-coated, katana-wielding man" aspect of the setting when we diversify into multiple Mary Sues instead of one Arch Sue with an army of lesser Sues at his beck and call. Plus, we lose the fact that we're pointedly parodying someone's specific lunacy.

Personally, I like the idea of this idea of ragtag misfits trying to strike blows against a ridiculously self-absorbed and blindly tyrannical empire trying to fit destiny to a specific mold. By essentially becoming The Henderson Squad and trying to derail this preconception of destiny, we've got a setting where you're TRYING to tear someone's horridly flawed notions of "how the story's supposed to go" to pieces. Hell, it's got shades of the latest OOTS storyline in there, doesn't it?

At least, that's the direction I'd take Trekkin's setting idea.

Jacob.Tyr

2014-03-05, 02:58 PM

Personally, I like the idea of this idea of ragtag misfits trying to strike blows against a ridiculously self-absorbed and blindly tyrannical empire trying to fit destiny to a specific mold. By essentially becoming The Henderson Squad and trying to derail this preconception of destiny, we've got a setting where you're TRYING to tear someone's horridly flawed notions of "how the story's supposed to go" to pieces.
This premise is ****ing amazing.

Trekkin

2014-03-05, 07:56 PM

Well done, Deffers. I hope it doesn't sound too self-congratulatory to say we apparently think rather alike, although in the interests of game longevity I've been trying to assemble a counterbalance to the derailing efforts.

New post is incipient; I'm still on the interview circuit, so this is being written in airports and hotel rooms.

The Glyphstone

2014-03-05, 08:36 PM

Trekkin

2014-03-05, 09:24 PM

Have you been mentioning to interviewers about your previous experience with successfully leading a cooperative/team-building exercise and employing lateral creative thinking in the face of overwhelming and dynamic obstacles?

Unlike CC, I don't mention my gaming in professional contexts. (The man seriously counts it as leadership experience on his resume. At least he did when applying at the CIA.) Actually, I'm never the first one to mention anything but science.

(Ironically, everywhere I've gone, some existing grad student plays D&D and has invited me to join them. I now judge grad schools based on the edition they play.)

So no, I have not. Unless and until I find a sapient protein sequence that actively despises me (and is covered in nano-Cheetos), I don't think it'll be relevant anyway.

EDIT: If such a sequence exists, I'd bet my hat it starts with Asx-Ala-Ser-Ile-Cys-Ala-Leu-Leu-Tyr...

Deffers

2014-03-05, 10:13 PM

Well done, Deffers. I hope it doesn't sound too self-congratulatory to say we apparently think rather alike, although in the interests of game longevity I've been trying to assemble a counterbalance to the derailing efforts.

No, it doesn't sound self-congratulatory at all. Hell, I take that as a compliment.

I feel like the curtailing of the derailing might best be done by making the setting hard to survive in if you're not a Sue. Or creating enemies that take creativity to defeat.

Maybe Sues are like a sort of Apostles in Berserk thing, where you give up a part of yourself (in this case some crucial piece of self-awareness or self-honesty) to become a superpowered entity that despite seeming like an upgrade is forever limited in capability and never grows. That's SUPER out of left field now that I typed it out, but I like it. Opinions?

Zelphas

2014-03-05, 10:22 PM

A fluff reason for the idea: keep the "Authyr" power in. Maybe the "Authyrs" found a copy of the manuscript that defines their world, and wrote in it. It allows them to change the story and add what they like, but it's not the original tale, so it corrupts them. They get pulled partially out of the story their in, which makes them insanely powerful... but it also stops any sort of growth in them. Ever. Anyone who they change this way by writing about them also gets corrupted, to a lesser degree.

Of course, in this case, either you have to find a good reason why the "Authyr" doesn't just corrupt the heroes and force them to his side. Either that, or it becomes part of the difficulty: how do you take down someone who can rewrite you away?

Deffers

2014-03-05, 10:29 PM

NotAnAardvark

2014-03-06, 12:18 AM

Most Sues are ludicrously hard to kill anyway. Imagine if they made an empire. Do we need to go more OP than that to make derailing difficult?
Give them a threat they can't deal with

Say the Authyrs realize the prophecy of the almighty Aythyr (more ys mean it's better, right?) who could write all their empires and mansions full of video games out of existence with his will. So they have to scramble to stop him.

Deffers

2014-03-06, 01:25 AM

But the Sues are the bad guys. We're focusing on how to stop the players, who aren't Sues, from derailing the campaign too fast in a campaign about derailing the stories the Sues/Empire want to enforce.

That said, an Aythyr is the greatest worst thing I've ever heard and it needs to be in the game.

Arbane

2014-03-06, 01:54 AM

A fluff reason for the idea: keep the "Authyr" power in. Maybe the "Authyrs" found a copy of the manuscript that defines their world, and wrote in it. It allows them to change the story and add what they like, but it's not the original tale, so it corrupts them. They get pulled partially out of the story their in, which makes them insanely powerful... but it also stops any sort of growth in them. Ever. Anyone who they change this way by writing about them also gets corrupted, to a lesser degree.

Makes me think of that old Doctor Who episode with the.. Land of Fiction, I think? Where the Doctor's trying to rewrite the 'reality' around him, and realizes he doesn't dare mention himself...

Zelphas

2014-03-06, 01:57 AM

I'm not sure I'd go that far unless we can define certain rules behind Authyrs being able to corrupt people-- I can see that leading to issues. But if the dude can write someone with a Barrett .50 right behind you into the story, that might be another possibility. I'm not sure, though.

I'm not sure all the Authyrs would be Sues (though that is an interesting angle we could take it), or more importantly, that all Sues would be Authyrs-- fighting Sues has interesting elements inasmuch as it lets you create unique boss-of-the-week type of enemies (which is perfect for making fun of Mary Sues since they end up being not so unique after all).

Most Sues are ludicrously hard to kill anyway. Imagine if they made an empire. Do we need to go more OP than that to make derailing difficult?

I have some sort of idea to limit the powers of the Authyr. Maybe one of them is that they can't just go around changing physiology in a major way--they have to work with the characters that they have, influencing minds and changing important decisions. The "Corruption" is a side effect of this--it causes the corrupted people to be distrusted by natural members of the story, which forces the Authyr to rewrite more minds, which strengthens the corruption overall, etc. etc. For this to work, corruption would have to have a major side effect, such as a sort of "fading" out of reality--an Authyr that abuses his or her powers can literally become too ridiculous to live.

Another idea is that the Authyr has to know the name of the person they are trying to effect in order to write about them, a la Death Note--main characters get taken down in short order, but the bit parts rise up to save the timeline.

Just further fleshing out the line of thought I had--feel free to use or discard whatever you like.

Definitely seconding the AyThyr (with capitalized middle letter for extra pretension); it's too horrifyingly hilarious not to use.

EDIT: I need to look up that Doctor Who episode, Arbane; I don't think I've seen it.

Eldan

2014-03-06, 02:49 AM

Vknight

2014-03-06, 04:36 AM

So we are working on creating a good or parody idea of Marty's game/world.

Why not make it more. People have ideas and because of ideas and tropes things work a certain way. Authors don't so much change the story as they can apply the tropes to people and places that make the story to their advantage.
Having absurdly sharp blades.

The thing being that their is a limited pool of authors per-universe and the lower the number the more powerful each. So to avoid being killed some authors leave their home universe creating flux's leading too divergent fan fic's, and new universes.
Some of these Authors give up the ability to use tropes for incredible power.

The idea being Authors have amazing potential power but it only works so much as they don't break the rules
A sue is an author whose very presence thus breaks those rules letting them utilize tropes.

So a Author gives the hero a sword that cuts steel
A Sue simple cuts steel with his sword

A Author can change the story
A Sue can only try to create their own

Meaning Authors need to stop Sue's, because a Sue is like Tarquin except that people can believe the sue to be a good person.
The Sue is caught up in what the story was supposed to be.

Authors are clever powerful secondary characters
Sue's are well Sue's

And the main threat to the campaign is a Sue whose won in one universe learning about the others has come too the conclusion his empire must control everything to make sure all the other Sue's succeed

Arbane

2014-03-06, 05:20 AM

EDIT: I need to look up that Doctor Who episode, Arbane; I don't think I've seen it.

You can start here (http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Land_of_Fiction).

Sith_Happens

2014-03-06, 05:52 AM

There is something I've seen several authors talk about in interviews: sometimes, the characters you write just take on a life of their own. Sometimes, they say, you throw them into a situation and while writing, you know there's just one way they could react. Some authors even mention being surprised by how their characters reacted, but it just felt too right to change.

That's happened to me at least once with a D&D character I was playing. The party was lured into the lair of an assassin's guild with the intent of recruiting us. It seemed clear from the manner of the luring and the particulars of the guildmaster's recruitment pitch that he wasn't going to take no for an answer, and no one besides me seemed to have heard past the point where he said he'd pay us.

My player instincts immediately told me "Okay, I have no idea where the exit is, this guy is probably at least reasonably higher level than me, he has at least one existing employee in the room with us whom I know OOC is the new PC, the rest of my party has already taken the job, and at this point in the campaign we're still in the 'allies of convenience' stage so there's no guarantee they'll have my back if this comes to blows. Oh, and it's also not been long enough for me to judge how this DM handles his questgivers being turned down. In short, there's no way I'm walking out of here except on the guild's payroll."

The response, with no hesitation whatsoever, from the part of me that wrote and had actually been playing the character I had to respond to the situation as? "Well tough ****, because the Abyss will puke sunshine and rainbows before I work for a bad guy, even if it means dying senselessly."

Needless to say I acted on that second thought, and very belligerently tasked the guildmaster with making clear to me that he was a good guy before I'd give him the time of day. Thankfully he did.

Kish

2014-03-06, 11:32 AM

(The man seriously counts it as leadership experience on his resume. At least he did when applying at the CIA.)
"We should hire you because you ran a game. No, we shouldn't talk to any of your players because they never appreciated your genius. I'm afraid you've got the wrong place--you want the Central Stupidity Agency, down the street."

Jornophelanthas

2014-03-06, 05:04 PM

"We should hire you because you ran a game. No, we shouldn't talk to any of your players because they never appreciated your genius. I'm afraid you've got the wrong place--you want the Central Stupidity Agency, down the street."

Don't you mean the NATIONAL Stupidity Agency?

RedEttin

2014-03-08, 07:16 AM

If such a sequence exists, I'd bet my hat it starts with Asx-Ala-Ser-Ile-Cys-Ala-Leu-Leu-Tyr...

I've gotta ask: why that sequence?

Also, your blog is excellent. I found the threads from doing a google search for more SUEthulhu, because the blog just wasn't enough. I just now caught up with everything.

Trekkin

2014-03-08, 11:13 PM

Thank you!

as for why that sequence, I was hoping someone would translate it from its three letter code to the one letter equivalent.

Lord Raziere

2014-03-08, 11:17 PM

Thank you!

as for why that sequence, I was hoping someone would translate it from its three letter code to the one letter equivalent.

AASICALLT?

what does that mean?

or did I do it wrong?

Asx-Ala-Ser-Ile-Cys-Ala-Leu-Leu-Tyr.......nope! no idea.

Feddlefew

2014-03-08, 11:25 PM

Thank you!

as for why that sequence, I was hoping someone would translate it from its three letter code to the one letter equivalent.

Is it "BASICALLY"?

(No, I did not do it off the top of my head.)

Sith_Happens

2014-03-09, 12:02 AM

[Wishing I'd paid attention in biochem intensifies]

georgie_leech

2014-03-09, 02:07 AM

What are the amino acid codes that spell out BASICALLY?

EDIT: Ninja'd, so hard. That'll teach me to leave a tab open, leave for a few hours, then reply without refreshing.

Trekkin

2014-03-10, 03:51 PM

Got it in one. Well done, and my apologies for being opaque.

Incidentally, have a new post (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-sue-files-theorycrafting-takes.html). If it sounds like the deranged ravings of a sleep-deprived mind, I have only my insane flight schedule to blame.

Leliel

2014-03-10, 04:36 PM

Hm...

What if you had a system similar to Wanted Levels in GTA? The more you directly influence or setting-break to get something done, the more attention you draw to yourself?

At the highest levels, you get classified as a SUE and end up having to face your fellows, either beating them away until you die or unless you explain yourself to their satisfaction.

Being able to peacefully explain why you're a SUE now and debate with your hunters adds that grey to the game. True, there are the egomaniacs and the villain wannabes, but there's also the naive, the inexperienced editors who didn't realize what they were doing, and those guys who are on a crusade against grimdark and don't care if Chaos gets upset by this.

Trekkin

2014-03-10, 04:43 PM

That's an excellent idea. The thing of it is, there also might be a more internal sort of system for magic (and hubris) making you stick out, and I've been wrestling with how to rationalize the two.

It certainly needs to be a thing. I'm trying to find a way to make it a perfectly nonredundant thing.

Qwertystop

2014-03-10, 06:31 PM

Idea: The internal system is that when you start pushing limits, your edits to yourself start sustaining themselves off of themselves - things start being shifted just from you being near, without any conscious input.

At low levels, it's a wake-up call - you'll notice it, and if it's not intentional, you'll realize you should ease up a bit.

More middling, it'll be pretty blatant, and it might start moving in its own direction - still based on what you've started, but not limited to the immediate goals of your changes. This is another, bigger warning - "I never wanted this."

Near the end, it echos back and starts affecting you.

You start out boosting your agility a bit for some tricky dodges. You go a bit too far, so it's become an automatic or near-automatic success. When you pass that threshold of removing risk/challenge, your enemies start generally aiming worse, getting clumsier - but in the setting, everyone in the groups that know about the dream knows that's the first sign of something worse. Maybe make the threshold for further worsening go down here. Don't dial it down, things get worse - everyone around you starts fumbling things, whether they're trying to attack you or not. It's enforcing the "ideal" of The Most Agile by comparison. If you still don't take the hint, you're the next target. You get slimmer, better at anything involving dextrousness or agility, you start dual-wielding (rapier in one hand, or course, since it's thin and flexible and what do you mean that's a foil?) and somehow succeeding... At this point, you're basically lost.

Deffers

2014-03-10, 06:50 PM

I think those ideas are great, Trekkin! And the idea of wanted levels, while somewhat simplified, might not be a bad idea. And jumping into and out of people's dreams to wait until the heat dies down also sounds great.

I like the idea of people's emotion making a sort of pantheon that must be overthrown. I wonder if righting a dream to make its inhabitants happier would cause the dreamer to experience positive effects in terms of their outlook on life? Maybe it'd help them to have personal insights (slowly, of course) as to how they can improve their lives and their selves.

I like it, honestly. We might want to flesh out the concept of the dream-tree's order faction; how they operate, how they communicate, how you keep a legion of people who think they are the greatest from tearing each other to pieces.

Sith_Happens

2014-03-10, 06:56 PM

Incidentally, have a new post (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-sue-files-theorycrafting-takes.html). If it sounds like the deranged ravings of a sleep-deprived mind, I have only my insane flight schedule to blame.

This is like Inception meets Agents of SHIELD meets Don't Rest Your Head, and I love it.:smallcool:

All it needs is some way that the dream-world affects the real world. After all, if what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas and the PCs don't live in Vegas, then at the end of the day why do they care?

The obvious answer is to steal (further) from Inception and say that what happens in people's dreamscapes can affect their waking minds. Which is bad because eventually a SUE is going to figure that out and start engineering an army of thralls.

The Glyphstone

2014-03-10, 07:14 PM

For random silliness, have Sue-ness measured on the Katana scale, from 0.0 (normal person)to 1.0 (full-on God Mode Sue, completely with improbably sharp katana regardless of it being appropriate).

Feddlefew

2014-03-10, 08:56 PM

Maybe include an ontological inertia stat/save? It lets you snap back from the effects of reality-warping entities like Sues, but if you start bending or breaking the rules of reality yourself it begins to erode. When it hits 0, if something should manage to undo any major changes you've made, you cease to exist.

Think of it like every person having a backup record for history, the laws of the universe, and whatnot. Sometimes, the universe decides a chunk of itself is corrupt and attempts to fix itself by using these back ups. People from other universes run the risk of being erased or damaging the universes they enter if it tries to restore from them, and Sues are powerful people who have so warped their own backups that they can passively overwrite reality, and even corrupt other people's backups.

Of course, there might also need to be an influence stat or some kind of system of linking characters and objects to other events/objects/characters, so that the more events and people they've influenced the more powerful their individual effect on reality is. But that might be complicated to work out.

Necroticplague

2014-03-10, 09:05 PM

This is like Inception meets Agents of SHIELD meets Don't Rest Your Head, and I love it.:smallcool:
actually, that's what I thought without reading the link when read this:

Idea: The internal system is that when you start pushing limits, your edits to yourself start sustaining themselves off of themselves - things start being shifted just from you being near, without any conscious input.

At low levels, it's a wake-up call - you'll notice it, and if it's not intentional, you'll realize you should ease up a bit.

More middling, it'll be pretty blatant, and it might start moving in its own direction - still based on what you've started, but not limited to the immediate goals of your changes. This is another, bigger warning - "I never wanted this."

Near the end, it echos back and starts affecting you.

You start out boosting your agility a bit for some tricky dodges. You go a bit too far, so it's become an automatic or near-automatic success. When you pass that threshold of removing risk/challenge, your enemies start generally aiming worse, getting clumsier - but in the setting, everyone in the groups that know about the dream knows that's the first sign of something worse. Maybe make the threshold for further worsening go down here. Don't dial it down, things get worse - everyone around you starts fumbling things, whether they're trying to attack you or not. It's enforcing the "ideal" of The Most Agile by comparison. If you still don't take the hint, you're the next target. You get slimmer, better at anything involving dextrousness or agility, you start dual-wielding (rapier in one hand, or course, since it's thin and flexible and what do you mean that's a foil?) and somehow succeeding... At this point, you're basically lost.

Yes, you can use your power, and it might even get very good for a while, but you have to walk the line between being strong enough to overcome the challenges, and the SUE that overcomes all of them easily.

Come to think of it, Don't Rest Your Head seems like one of the few games the unspeakable one could run without being too noticeable. Sure, everything logic-bending, arbitrary, and nightmarish to think about, and exaggerated. That's pretty much the default setting. The other is, of course, Paranoia for similar reasons.

sidhe3141

2014-03-10, 09:58 PM

This might help. (http://bioinformatics.org/sms2/three_to_one.html)

Edit: Well, that's what I get for leaving this tab open and un-refreshed all day.

BeerMug Paladin

2014-03-10, 11:08 PM

For random silliness, have Sue-ness measured on the Katana scale, from 0.0 (normal person)to 1.0 (full-on God Mode Sue, completely with improbably sharp katana regardless of it being appropriate).
Shouldn't the Katana Scale of Sueness go from 0.0 to 7200.0 (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/04/the-sue-system-setting-underlying.html)?

THEChanger

2014-03-11, 12:42 AM

Hey there folks. Name's THEChanger. Been following this since the beginning, through the absolutely horror and approaching three full threads.

Reworking the setting sounds really awesome. Done in a way that was less mind-shatteringly insane, I would love to play such a multiversal game. The concepts and themes you've laid out so far, Trekkin, remind me a lot of a game I stumbled across awhile ago; Mythender (http://mythenderrpg.com/). It might serve for some inspiration. I thought I'd put the link there in case it proved useful.

Jacob.Tyr

2014-03-11, 07:59 AM

All it needs is some way that the dream-world affects the real world. After all, if what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas and the PCs don't live in Vegas, then at the end of the day why do they care?

The obvious answer is to steal (further) from Inception and say that what happens in people's dreamscapes can affect their waking minds. Which is bad because eventually a SUE is going to figure that out and start engineering an army of thralls.

Could also allow spillover from dreams into reality. If people can travel one way, why not the other? This would make characters like Marty-Sue who are trying to actually conquer multiple spheres into a threat to reality instead of just dreams.

Leliel

2014-03-11, 08:26 AM

Could also allow spillover from dreams into reality. If people can travel one way, why not the other? This would make characters like Marty-Sue who are trying to actually conquer multiple spheres into a threat to reality instead of just dreams.

Actually, given how the universe works, that's probably the idea.

If everything is a dream, so are the creators. A self-aware dream that wills itself to continue existing, but dreams nonetheless.

And if everything is, at its core, made of dream-stuff, dream-stuff from one reality can cross over easily enough.

The_Werebear

2014-03-11, 08:39 AM

Could also allow spillover from dreams into reality. If people can travel one way, why not the other? This would make characters like Marty-Sue who are trying to actually conquer multiple spheres into a threat to reality instead of just dreams.

I got something of that implication from what they said. It seems like there were two basic risks involved in having SUEs running roughshod over dreamworlds.

The first was that the Dreamspace might be somewhat collective. One person doesn't power the whole dream universe. As sections of it are ruined and conquered by improbable katana slinging tyrants, it creates swaths of crushed, depressed people as even their fantasies and dreams become the petty playthings of others.

The second was that the manipulation might spillover internally to the SUE. There's a strong element of risk of corruption here. As someone becomes more SUE, it begins to change how they think both in the dreamworlds and in the real world. One gradually becomes more disconnected from reality as one becomes invested in the dreamworld. Eventually, as powers are abused, they snap in the real world and spend 100% of your mental time in the Dreamspace. The moderately uninhabited body can do anything from go catatonic to go on a Katana-weilding killing spree. However, for the SUE, it doesn't matter.

I would think that the Inception rules apply. A normal person dead or destroyed in the dreamworld wakes up (with moderate mental scarring depending on how they died or how frequently they die). A SUE is a 100% Dream construct at this point, and once they die (if you can kill them via the "major edits to their reality changes can be lethal), they are dead for good.

Laughingmanlol

2014-03-11, 12:03 PM

Perhaps a way to assign a number from the katana scale would be to have the test subject take a blade from a barrel of swords that have not been examined before, in the spirit of Schrodinger's cat. Their chosen weapon is then examined, and their katana number is however many times it has been folded in the forging process. The people who are basically better than everyone else would obviously pick the better katanas that have been folded the most times. Other possibilities could include dressing them in a leather longcoat in a closed room and measuring the apparent wind speed.

Arbane

2014-03-12, 04:04 AM

Lord Torath

2014-03-12, 08:51 AM

Other possibilities could include dressing them in a leather longcoat in a closed room and measuring the apparent wind speed.:smallbiggrin: Hah! This cracked me up! So appropriate! :smallbiggrin:

Lord Raziere

2014-03-12, 09:45 AM

Other possibilities could include dressing them in a leather longcoat in a closed room and measuring the apparent wind speed.

Yea but that only works if the wind doesn't blow too fast, because if the wind blows too much the long coats coattails flap too much for them to be cool, and therefore the longcoat test would have a certain scale before it reaches maximum cool before the longcoat's coattails go fully horizontal and thus ruin its cool billowing factor. which might put a limit on how measurable it is, because at a certain point of coolness, their billowing factor would be perfect no matter how much higher their coolness goes.

The Glyphstone

2014-03-12, 10:21 AM

Eh, I'm not sure if we want to go that far. The idea that all Sues eventually, at their peak, conform to a specific 'template' of Katana+Longcoat+whatever actually seems kinda anti-Sue, if Sues in this setting are idealized dream constructs of the dreamer's id gone wild. But having one abberant construct - could be that they all inevitably wield/wear a katana, or that a longcoat somehow becomes part of their garb, regardless of how inappropriate that accessory is to their nature, feels better to emphasize the weirdness.

Jacob.Tyr

2014-03-12, 10:25 AM

Excessive SUEishness damages the fabric of spacetime in their vicinity, due to the causality fractures (and the breaking of Suspension of Disbelief). WARNING: Sufficiently improbably acts on the part of PCs can have a similar but lesser effect.

Maybe the PCs could utilize the Sue's manipulations against them? If the Sue has decreed katanas to be the best weapon EVER, then the PCs can pick up a katana and use it against them without causing further causality fractures. Working within the Sue's space to beat them, only bringing attention to themselves when they bend rules that the Sue of that dreamsphere hasn't already tossed out the window.

The PCs would have powers to manipulate things on their own, but a portion of strategy could be learning what things have already been broken sufficiently that they can freely use their own powers in that way.

Deffers

2014-03-12, 12:58 PM

The problem we have with that is that Rule Zero of a Sue's world is, by definition, the Sue never REALLY loses. Which is where creativity in defeating enemies comes in.

And I agree with the idea that Sues should be more varied. Sure, we all know of the dozens of trenchcoat wearing guys with katanas, but what about the magical girl with pigtails and heterochromia? She tends to wear something different.

Let's appreciate diversity in the overpowered self-congratulatory self-inserts community! It makes for a great villain-of-the-week thing. :smalltongue:

Kazudo

2014-03-12, 01:38 PM

What have I spent the last three weeks reading off and on.

This is so good yet so bad.

[Insert rehashed opinions of Marty/CC here]

Bluh. At any rate, love the blog, keep it going, all of that.

Feirgon

2014-03-12, 03:26 PM

I just found this today, and it filled my day smiles and laughter.

However, getting through 116 pages worth of posts required a fair amount of skimming (and skipping).

As such, I have a question which may have already been answered (so just point me to the post if need be): What happened to the system and the people outside of the game? Are you all still friends? Did you all tell him what a terrible job he did? Is he still trying to publish it?

Trekkin

2014-03-12, 06:13 PM

As such, I have a question which may have already been answered (so just point me to the post if need be): What happened to the system and the people outside of the game? Are you all still friends? Did you all tell him what a terrible job he did? Is he still trying to publish it?

I believe the other players are in periodic contact with him. I am not. We did try to explain what a mess the game was; he's immune to criticism. He's almost certainly still trying to publish it, if his career options are eternal unemployment or lounging in coffee shops claiming to be an author.

Someday, almost certainly, he will send some poor publisher half a terabyte of unsorted .txt files, demanding several million upfront before he will release the encryption key. If I hear of a building full of people laughing themselves into a coma, I'll be sure to check for Cheetos dust and skill checks.

Feirgon

2014-03-12, 08:24 PM

I believe the other players are in periodic contact with him. I am not. We did try to explain what a mess the game was; he's immune to criticism. He's almost certainly still trying to publish it, if his career options are eternal unemployment or lounging in coffee shops claiming to be an author.

Someday, almost certainly, he will send some poor publisher half a terabyte of unsorted .txt files, demanding several million upfront before he will release the encryption key. If I hear of a building full of people laughing themselves into a coma, I'll be sure to check for Cheetos dust and skill checks.

Wait, what happened to his degree? I thought you guys were in college or some such.

The Glyphstone

2014-03-12, 08:28 PM

The college they went to is apparently Menzoberranzan Academy, minus the latter's welcoming atmosphere, genuinely motivated faculty, and general spirit of cooperation and unity.

Lord Raziere

2014-03-12, 08:35 PM

The college they went to is apparently Menzoberranzan Academy, minus the latter's welcoming atmosphere, genuinely motivated faculty, and general spirit of cooperation and unity.

.....while I get how Menzo's faculty is genuinely motivated, does "welcoming atmosphere" refer to the Cool Underground Decor, and does "general spirit of cooperation and unity" refer to The Drow Are The Bestest Than Everyone Else, Go Us As We Kill Each Other?

ReaderAt2046

2014-03-12, 09:17 PM

.....while I get how Menzo's faculty is genuinely motivated, does "welcoming atmosphere" refer to the Cool Underground Decor, and does "general spirit of cooperation and unity" refer to The Drow Are The Bestest Than Everyone Else, Go Us As We Kill Each Other?

Pretty much. I personally think Temptation U from The Screwtape Letters is a closer comparison. Same utter dominance of evil and ambition, same absence of any hint of beauty, goodness, or truth, etc and so forth.

georgie_leech

2014-03-12, 09:17 PM

.....while I get how Menzo's faculty is genuinely motivated, does "welcoming atmosphere" refer to the Cool Underground Decor, and does "general spirit of cooperation and unity" refer to The Drow Are The Bestest Than Everyone Else, Go Us As We Kill Each Other?

I suspect it's more that his college's atmosphere and unity makes Menzoberanzan's Outsiders-must-die, Stab-superiors in back for promotion attitude seem quite nice by comparison. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DontExplainTheJoke)

Kish

2014-03-12, 10:38 PM

Wait, what happened to his degree? I thought you guys were in college or some such.
Not too many places willing to offer a job to an engineer who knows how to forge cheese, believes the most important law of physics is "katanas trump everything," and lists his experience running RPGs as "leadership experience*" on his resume, for some mysterious reason.

*And apparently actually, seriously, applied to the CIA with that resume.

BeerMug Paladin

2014-03-13, 12:09 AM

Not too many places willing to offer a job to an engineer who knows how to forge cheese, believes the most important law of physics is "katanas trump everything," and lists his experience running RPGs as "leadership experience*" on his resume, for some mysterious reason.

*And apparently actually, seriously, applied to the CIA with that resume.
Don't forget that 'people are sheep', that being physically disfigured makes you insane, the egomania, the ignorance of chemistry and materials science, and things like this:

"Genes are like muscles; the more you use them, the more you end up with, and the more are passed on to your offspring, like with giraffe necks."

I imagine Marty rarely goes more than a few minutes at a time without saying something incredibly stupid, insulting or abrasive. Even if someone was impressed with DM-ing 'leadership experience', I imagine he would be weeded out during the interviewing process.

captpike

2014-03-13, 12:12 AM

out of curiosity how obvious is it that marty is well, marty. could you for example talk to him for a few minutes about a movie that just came out and think he is somewhat normal and well adjusted?

squiggit

2014-03-13, 02:21 AM

We did try to explain what a mess the game was; he's immune to criticism.

Maybe you should try submitting your concerns in the form of business comment cards. Didn't he like those "give us your feedback" things?

Jornophelanthas

2014-03-13, 06:50 AM

out of curiosity how obvious is it that marty is well, marty. could you for example talk to him for a few minutes about a movie that just came out and think he is somewhat normal and well adjusted?

From what I've read in all three threads, yes, he would appear to be a normal moviegoing fan, but he would also secretly be thinking up ways for his katana-wielding alter ego to conquer the movie's setting.

I would not know about non-fiction related topics, though.

Kazudo

2014-03-13, 09:07 AM

Basically, this movie is superior in all ways. But I can see where it could fit into my game world, after my npc did a few things to better their society, of course..

Trekkin

2014-03-15, 06:31 PM

Hey everyone. Just wanted to say the next post will be a bit delayed. Some [redacted] crashed their remarkably fast SUV into my (stopped) Prius and it hurts to move my arms now, so typing for extended periods of time isn't terribly practical.

Should be better in a few days, but yeah. This will be a fun weekend.

georgie_leech

2014-03-15, 06:33 PM

Trekkin

2014-03-15, 06:36 PM

Considering how often fate conspires to make this blog difficult to manage, I'm starting to wonder if CC might not actually have some power over this. Did we accidentally create the SUEnomicon or something? :smalleek:

On a related note, I hope the recovery goes smoothly. How bad is the Prius?

Totaled. There are fluids leaking out that are factory-sealed into it and they're still digging parts out of nearby trees. Important parts. EDIT: Essentially half the car disintegrated on impact, with some more damage from what we proceeded to plow into. Still not sure how I walked out of that.

The Grue

2014-03-15, 07:31 PM

Totaled. There are fluids leaking out that are factory-sealed into it and they're still digging parts out of nearby trees. Important parts. EDIT: Essentially half the car disintegrated on impact, with some more damage from what we proceeded to plow into. Still not sure how I walked out of that.

Clearly because the Prius, being a Japanese car, is inherently superior.

Asmayus

2014-03-15, 07:45 PM

Clearly because the Prius, being a Japanese car, is inherently superior.

Made my day :D

Feel better soon Trekkin!

The_Werebear

2014-03-15, 11:11 PM

Deffers

2014-03-15, 11:14 PM

God, I hope you feel better soon, Trekkin. I'm super sorry to hear about it and I'm glad you're OK.

The Fury

2014-03-16, 10:24 PM

Totaled. There are fluids leaking out that are factory-sealed into it and they're still digging parts out of nearby trees. Important parts. EDIT: Essentially half the car disintegrated on impact, with some more damage from what we proceeded to plow into. Still not sure how I walked out of that.

Oh wow. Hopefully you're better soon. Nobody was seriously hurt, I hope.

Honest Tiefling

2014-03-16, 10:42 PM

Glad to hear that you are alright, and hope your arms recover soon.

Trekkin

2014-03-18, 11:31 PM

New post. (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-sue-files-doing-things-right.html) It's a bit long and rambly and a lot out there, but I had a lot of ideas before I could type, so I'm sorry. There's a negligibly shorter summary at the end.

Deffers

2014-03-19, 12:09 AM

I like a lot of the ideas that you've put forth in your new post, Trekkin. Though I feel like it's not necessary for us to spell out that it's a Tipler oracle-- for some reason, maintaining ambiguity and mystery about the meta-setting seems like an interesting direction.

Some of the ideas you put forth remind me of Killer is Dead-- I won't say more to prevent spoilers, for those who haven't played that video game (those of you who've played it probably know what I mean). But that sort of got me thinking about the idea of a surrealist Agency-- supposedly there's a structure behind them and supporting them, but it's never seen and after a while you get the feeling they might just EXIST, because the nature of their struggle with the darkness also goes somewhat beyond what we see from our perspective as the audience. If you just go by the cutscenes and gameplay, there are elements that are just tucked beyond the edges of our observation.

EDIT: More thoughts-- sanity as mana is a really good thing that I could get behind. I would also include the possibility of Backlash-- a smaller scale version of an Eldritch BSOD that would serve as a nice reminder Things Are Stirring. Have you ever had a dream where you felt like a total baller and then your dream just shifted around you and suddenly you were helpless? Where you felt like the world itself had stripped you of your power and confidence for a few moments? Maybe giving simulations the capacity to bite back a bit before calling an exception and giving up the ghost might be interesting.

Like maybe you're firing laser cannons you stole from the sci-fi world at a SUE who's trying to take over Camelot, and he's deflecting them with his sword like a big moron, and suddenly your phaser breaks and a very big, very angry, very horrifying looking dragon swoops in and makes the world's objections with you very, very clear.

Of course, with some effort you'd be able to push through it and regain your abilities-- but at a significant cost to Immersion. The other alternative is to try and run, lay low, and play by the rules for a while until reality begins to calm down for a while. I feel like this concept might need some lab time before it's really good, but it might be promising, no?

Maybe that should be our idea for our Agency itself. How it originated, perhaps, is shrouded in mystery, or related to our Lovecraftian horrors-- one of them, for whatever reasons, is cognizant or capable of seeing that the SUEs might be dealt with some other way, and so people are brought together across universes to form organizations that combat the SUEs. They are supported by what they can take, and what they stumble upon conveniently when they're up against something really unbalancing. Utterly coincidentally, of course.

What I mean to take from Killer is Dead is the sort of magical realist theme and mystery that comes from just how vague some parts of the story are-- the world has an element of dreamlike confusion made merely by altering the information the player has access to.

Trekkin

2014-03-19, 05:50 PM

Well, the Tipler oracle was always a handwave. It can be one possible handwave of many easily. The mystery is cooler anyway.

As for the surrealist agency: that is absolutely awesome, and would help the setting not make too much sense. I had worried about how to provide the PCs a source of information, equipment, and missions, actually. This is the kind of vaguely unsettling solution that keeps the world surreal without destroying player agency. Ha.

Backlash makes sense, as well; it could be how the "level editor" parses distress on the part of the world's creator. It'd be the equivalent of the initial T-cell feedback cycles before the full-on cytokine storm of Lovecraftian intervention. I like the idea of the world itself spawning hostile elements, perhaps more and more directly as things get worse. We could just use the Unluck rules and link the Unluck dice rolled to the Immersion gap, for example.

Deffers

2014-03-19, 08:09 PM

I'm glad you like the ideas, Trekkin.

Another reason for the mystery is that two characters who are part of the same squad might have different theories on what the world is like.

Let's say you've got a wizard and a scientist on the same team. Both will be some of the most learned men from their respective dreams, and a sufficiently intelligent wizard might have a magical computer of their own, but a wizard comes from a world where things like planes of existence are not only real, but a fact of life. And if he's a very DnD-esque wizard, the existence of demiplanes furthers the concept of nested planes of reality. For him, Occam's Razor is going to imply you've got the same thing all the way down and up. The scientist, on the other hand, might be leaning more towards a simulationist view of these nested realities.

Also, if we want to add more surrealism and ambiguity to the setting, we might consider including recursive dreams into our universe, where dreamer A in world A dreams up world B with the help of our level editor, while dreamer B from that same world dreams up world A. That would confuse both our wizard and our scientist, I think. :smalltongue:

Sith_Happens

2014-03-19, 09:49 PM

Of course, with some effort you'd be able to push through it and regain your abilities-- but at a significant cost to Immersion. The other alternative is to try and run, lay low, and play by the rules for a while until reality begins to calm down for a while. I feel like this concept might need some lab time before it's really good, but it might be promising, no?

This seems like the most logical way to restore Immersion to me. Since you lose Immersion by altering the world and/or introducing Things That Should Not Be (In It), it only makes sense that you'd regain it by letting things be and playing along with the setting conceits.

----------

On an unrelated note, I feel like it's potentially pertinent to decide why exactly they're called "SUEs." While making it an acronym is the obvious answer, I'd like to sneak in a meta-joke that lends itself to some interesting worldbuilding:

Some time in the ancient past, a dreamjacker by the name of Mary Sue became so powerful and megalomaniacal that she threatened to destroy the entire multiverse, either by her own hand or by cosmic backlash chain reaction. It took an inter-'verse-al force too large for any one mind to fathom to eventually defeat her, at enormous cost. The strain on Immersion due to the war was so great and widespread, and Mary Sue herself so deeply ingrained into the existence of so many worlds, that her demise triggered a "correction" wave the likes of which was never before seen. So fearsome was this wave that every last dream was completely wiped from reality, save for one: Our world, hereby referred to as Earth Prime. While the reasons for Earth Prime's survival are unknown, it is speculated that its particular characteristics and natural laws lend themselves especially well to maintaining Immersion.

Note that Earth Prime is not actually any more "real" than any other world, nor was it even a comparatively old world (in fact, it is entirely possible that the multiverse is of infinite age). What is special about it is that for a brief time it was the only world, becoming the central node from which a new multiverse expanded fractally outward. This essentially makes it a massive vulnerability in the multiversal structure; should a SUE or cosmic correction wave penetrate into Earth Prime, it could quickly and easily spread to every other world that exists.

Reeling from this near-destruction-of-everything, the surviving remnants of both sides of the war came together to form the Agency (which I'll come up with a snazzier name for later), an organization dedicated to ensuring that a comparable catastrophe never happens again. As such, it has two distinct and equally important missions:

1. Combating SUEs, potential SUEs, and other threats to Immersion before they spread too far. To this end, the Agency continually spreads its influence as far and wide as it can, though its presence is still most prominent in the worlds nearest to Earth Prime.

2. Keeping the population of Earth Prime ignorant of the true nature of their dreams and the existence of other worlds, so as to keep its Immersion as high as possible. This way, if worst comes to worst and another apocalyptic-level correction wave occurs, Earth Prime should be able to block it once again and the damage will be contained to a single "sector" of the multiverse.

Thoughts?

Deffers

2014-03-19, 10:06 PM

Not sure we should go with the idea of a 'root' universe, in the sense that I like the idea of turtles all the way down... and all the way up. Plus, it gives us the capacity to have heroes questing for the 'root' universe, somewhere out there in the endless blossoming cosmic lotus of the universe. Beyond that, it's an idea that's friendlier to conceptual mind-screwery like recursive dreams and other bizarre topologies.

I do like the idea of a cataclysmic SUE causing some untold cosmic damage, but the idea of a human(oid) intelligence bringing about the Agency seems underwhelming, for its sheer fractal tumult.

Maybe Mary Sue was the first one to get eaten by something that noticed her screwiness. Since then, SUEs have posed a huge threat to the variegated worlds they parasitized. And an Agency formed to fight that.

captpike

2014-03-19, 10:25 PM

maybe before THE Mary Sue there were no or little consequences for being a sue or screwing up a world. but after THE EVENT, set off by the first Sue there seams to be some moderating force that fixes things.

and by "fix" I mean crush without mercy. it could people, could be nature itself, all that is know is that you never want to let things get far enough to get its attention.

Trekkin

2014-03-19, 10:29 PM

Just for the record, the "SUE" allcaps thing was purely serendipitous. I fixed it in the title of one of the articles, hit Replace All, and...there we go. It seemed like the kind of thing more often shouted than said anyway. We could go with Sues or something, but I like the idea of an apocalyptic creation myth.

I would actually make that event, or some version of that event, the unifying factor behind the Agency, rather than try to root the world tree.

Whatever we end up making it, I was thinking perhaps the Agency is, itself, rather oneiromantic (oneirophonic? the speaking version of listening to dreams) in its doings; rather than normal dreams, its agents get their briefings that way. This also avoids the players having their own setting, since now they can't dream, although we might want that. Perhaps after their first, undirected hop, the Agency waits a while to see if they can make it on their own in a wholly alien world, then zaps a sort of introductory nightmare into their heads. Anyway, here's what I'm thinking:

By way of providing a sort of occupational touchstone, when the Agency decides to recruit someone they always show them a similar nightmare, and it is always of Mary Sue's great, xenophobic crusade to turn the worlds into a reflection of herself, burning a bloody swath through countless mindscapes until finally defeated. Every horrible second etches itself onto their mind's eye, forming new associations with the heretofore unconscious knowledge that what they are seeing is utterly, horribly possible. The details are fuzzy and have grown more so over the ages; it is not even known if the dream recalls a past event or portends a dark future. It may be happening now; it may happen constantly; it may never have happened. It's not like the Agency's shown any great respect for linear time in their later communications. Certainly, upon waking, every new agent is utterly convinced that it must never, ever happen again.

Whether they're holding a battered universe together in the wake of catastrophe or mustering their strength to battle the worst blight the worlds have ever seen, the only folks who know aren't talking. Heck, given the turnover rate, the Agency may well be angling to bring this to pass.

Sound good?