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Lord Raziere
2013-09-27, 08:35 PM
Ok, since no one else seems to be doing this even though the last thread got to 50 pages, I decided to do it and to use this title. I think its the most fitting

Basically its about this guy Trekkin's unfortunate experience with one of the worst yet bizarre GM's in the world, or at least the worst and bizarre that I know of. I will not describe this experience myself, as it would be better for you to see for yourself what he is talking about.

I Rolled a Zero, The Blog Wherein The SUE Files is recorded (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/04/what-is-this.html)


First Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275152)
The SUE Files Part II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=282462)


Also, keep in mind any Purple text within this thread is not serious at all and is basically us making fun of the GM in question.

Disclaimer: At the request of Trekkin, please do not ask of anything to identify anyone involved, as he wants to keep these stories anonymous for reasons of his own.

if there is anything I need to add to this, please let me know.

Deffers
2013-09-27, 08:55 PM
Well, you might want to point out that, traditionally, dark orchid and comic sans are basically superior alternatives to using pink and standard font. :smallwink:

Other than that, you may want to provide a link to that one campaign someone started because of the SUE Files, as well as, maybe... a glossary of terms? Like, a Best Of compilation of verbal comedy? Yunno, Henderson Blend Coffee, Working Out Your Genes, Cheese Forging, Counterfeit Gold, Nuclear Netting Machine, etc.

Other than that, I think you've got the basics. Maybe a beginner's guide too? Not sure what else we'd need as a generic sort of SUE Files template.

Tanuki Tales
2013-09-27, 08:58 PM
Woof.

I can't believe this beautiful train wreck is already onto it's fourth thread. I really have some catching up to do.

TuggyNE
2013-09-27, 08:59 PM
Woof.

I can't believe this beautiful train wreck is already onto it's fourth thread. I really have some catching up to do.

Third thread, actually.

Don't worry, it's basically the same number, right?

Tanuki Tales
2013-09-27, 09:01 PM
Third thread, actually.

Don't worry, it's basically the same number, right?

I'm counting the original thread.

TuggyNE
2013-09-27, 09:09 PM
I'm counting the original thread.

So was I? :smallconfused:

Kish
2013-09-27, 09:19 PM
Yeah...

I get the impression, Tanuki Tales, you're thinking there was a "The SUE Files I" as well as "What am I supposed to do?" But no; it went from "What am I supposed to do?" to "The SUE Files II."

Arkhosia
2013-09-27, 09:20 PM
On the bright side about cheese forges, we know it may be possible to make butter ore and butter swords and butter armor and butter ingots...

ellindsey
2013-09-27, 09:34 PM
That's it. I'm putting cheese forges (located in a forgotten dwarven stronghold) in my Pathfinder campaign. Because the dwarven method of making cheese has to include giant cauldrons of bubbling cheese heated by magma.

CoffeeIncluded
2013-09-27, 09:45 PM
MMm, can you make fondue out of that? Or is fondue also banned?

Doc Kraken
2013-09-27, 10:08 PM
No one makes fondue any more, dude. Cheese is clearly the superior choice, otherwise why would they put all that effort into the cheese foundry? Besides, you'd need all kinds of special equipment and training, which I doubt you have.

That kind of thing doesn't grow on trees, you know.

The Fury
2013-09-27, 10:12 PM
Hm. Maybe it would be fair to say that Marty hasn't spent much time in the kitchen. He's sort of coming across as a guy that likes food but has no idea of how it's made.

Joe the Rat
2013-09-27, 10:17 PM
I'm not sure if I'm in the right place. This is the SUE files, right? because this cheese forging talk sounds like Kingdom of Loathing.

And Dwarves invented fondue. The Swiss acquired it indirectly through contact with the Gnomes of Zurich. (Dwarf-Gnome trade relations are a well established fact)
This is not to be confused with fondant, which is a halfling invention. Fondant does not require forging.

ellindsey - oh yes... must have cheese forges.


Hm. Maybe it would be fair to say that Marty hasn't spent much time in the kitchen. He's sort of coming across as a guy that likes food but has no idea of how it's made.In nanofabricators. Anything else wouldn't be as awesome.

The Fury
2013-09-27, 10:19 PM
I'm not sure if I'm in the right place. This is the SUE files, right? because this cheese forging talk sounds like Kingdom of Loathing.

And Dwarves invented fondue. The Swiss acquired it indirectly through contact with the Gnomes of Zurich. (Dwarf-Gnome trade relations are a well established fact)
This is not to be confused with fondant, which is a halfling invention. Fondant does not require forging.

ellindsey - oh yes... must have cheese forges.

Yes, I'm afraid you are in basically the correct place.


why would they put all that effort into the cheese foundry?

Actually, this is a good question-- why would someone put all that effort into a cheese foundry?
Unfortunately, like all legitimate questions in the SUE system, there will never be a satisfying answer.

Arkhosia
2013-09-27, 10:23 PM
Why Katanas are overrated
Warning ME3 spoilers: Death of villain who kills a companion
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nKaYXirzYrc&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DnKaYXirzYrc

Trekkin
2013-09-27, 10:51 PM
Aww, thanks Lord Raziere!

There's a new post (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/09/suethulu-grumpily-ever-after.html).

Incidentally, I think we were going to add a disclaimer to the new thread asking people not to ask for anything that could identify anyone involved -- including the webcomic, since Chief Circle's real name is all over it.

As for what Chief looks like (from the last thread): http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/3639-brilliant.jpg That's more or less similar, albeit with less moustache and more neckbeard. Vamp!Marty...will take more searching.

jindra34
2013-09-27, 11:01 PM
Oh. That part. The part where some of the people around the issue made me grumpy.

Trekkin
2013-09-27, 11:04 PM
Oh. That part. The part where some of the people around the issue made me grumpy.

Yeah. Thus the filling it with other stuff instead, because that part wasn't fun.

Lord Raziere
2013-09-27, 11:18 PM
Aww, thanks Lord Raziere!

There's a new post (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/09/suethulu-grumpily-ever-after.html).

Incidentally, I think we were going to add a disclaimer to the new thread asking people not to ask for anything that could identify anyone involved -- including the webcomic, since Chief Circle's real name is all over it.


edited to add a disclaimer, is that sufficient? or more?

Trekkin
2013-09-27, 11:19 PM
edited to add a disclaimer, is that sufficient? or more?

That's perfect. Thanks very much.

Sith_Happens
2013-09-28, 12:09 AM
Have we ruled out the possibility that Marty was in fact not an aerospace engineer but a psych student, and was running an elaborate and lengthy experiment to see exactly how much bull**** a random cross-section of [University Name] students would put up with?

Because, while the above is far-fetched and hard to believe, so is the idea that someone would actually think cheese is made in foundry ladles.

Probably not, seeing as that would be a profound breach of ethics.

...I said as if Marty would care about such irrelevant matters.

The Grue
2013-09-28, 12:12 AM
Probably not, seeing as that would be a profound breach of ethics.

Is a psych student who disregards ethics more or less believable than an aerospace engineer who doesn't understand lift?

Feddlefew
2013-09-28, 01:17 AM
Is a psych student who disregards ethics more or less believable than an aerospace engineer who doesn't understand lift?

Sometimes I wonder if Trekkin and Llechtem are secretly psychologists or cultists or cultist psychologists trying to test internet denizens' reactions to Chief Circle, possibly in an attempt to summon some eldrich being of pure inanity into our world.

Forrestfire
2013-09-28, 01:54 AM
Sometimes I wonder that as well, but I decided that I'd rather believe that there's someone that horrible in the world (who may or may not be an elaborate psychology troll) than the idea that a pair did an amazing psychological trolling with the forum.

Although in either WMG psych troll case, all I could say is "well done" and tip my hat in awe.

That or tip my hat in awe towards the resilience of Trekkin and co. :smalleek:

Arbane
2013-09-28, 02:31 AM
Well, that ended on a rather lame note. Kind of unavoidable, I suppose. CC had to stop this whole "players DOING things" fad in the bud before it ruined his flawless plot.

So, aside from the Epilog, are we going to get more of Marty's PC's 'origin' story? ISTR you mentioned way-back-when that 'he's the sole survivor of an improbable number of things'.

Would you mind if I told RPG.net about this? They could use a good laugh, too.

Sir_Mopalot
2013-09-28, 02:34 AM
What makes me sad is that we are running low on stories of CC. Not that I want Trekkin to have suffered more, but he has a great writing style and has gone through a truly hilarious trouble.

Trekkin
2013-09-28, 02:39 AM
So, aside from the Epilog, are we going to get more of Marty's PC's 'origin' story? ISTR you mentioned way-back-when that 'he's the sole survivor of an improbable number of things'.

Would you mind if I told RPG.net about this? They could use a good laugh, too.

If I can find it, sure. If not, I can paraphrase what I remember.

And I wouldn't mind.

Forrestfire
2013-09-28, 02:41 AM
I do hope you continue writing for the blog once you run out of CC stuff, because I love reading your stuff.

Sith_Happens
2013-09-28, 02:45 AM
I do hope you continue writing for the blog once you run out of CC stuff, because I love reading your stuff.

I do believe he somewhat recently mentioned that this is not the only horrible campaign he's been in.

Forrestfire
2013-09-28, 02:47 AM
I do believe he somewhat recently mentioned that this is not the only horrible campaign he's been in.

:smalleek: Not much else to say there.

Trekkin
2013-09-28, 02:47 AM
I do hope you continue writing for the blog once you run out of CC stuff, because I love reading your stuff.

Oh, I like writing it much too much to stop. You do bring up a good point, though.

After CC is done with (2 more posts), I have a smattering of other CC-related things, like previous one-shots with him and whatever I can get of his origin story. I've another campaign to go through briefly, more one-shots, and then...a giant question mark.

So what would you all like me to do? I can do reviews of things, if you like; I've been meaning to do a setting-only Cthulhutech review for a while now. I can also do random snark about some of the more...interesting...players I've run games for in the past. Or maybe there's something else I haven't even thought of yet.

Sith_Happens
2013-09-28, 04:13 AM
All of the above?

Also, you could put a mention on the blog that you're in the market for guest posts.

TuggyNE
2013-09-28, 04:57 AM
So what would you all like me to do? I can do reviews of things, if you like; I've been meaning to do a setting-only Cthulhutech review for a while now. I can also do random snark about some of the more...interesting...players I've run games for in the past. Or maybe there's something else I haven't even thought of yet.

All of the everythings.

Blog ALL the game stories!

No, really, you have a knack for telling good horror stories of game sessions gone wrong, so anything you recount seems likely to come out enjoyable to read.

ReaderAt2046
2013-09-28, 07:08 AM
Did we miss the Great Mockery? I was really looking forward to that!

llehctim
2013-09-28, 12:18 PM
Sometimes I wonder if Trekkin and Llechtem are secretly psychologists or cultists or cultist psychologists trying to test internet denizens' reactions to Chief Circle, possibly in an attempt to summon some eldrich being of pure inanity into our world.

I wish, that would be an epic plot.

Also relevant, we played a few amusing one-shots with him before this with CC as the DM, in which he actually did plan for us to be crazy (a bit) and we did not disappoint.

Oooh at some point I could regale people with my characters' tragic deaths and perhaps even the tale of the Terra Qwaza.

And I believe at some point Trekkin did mention that if people wanted to share their own horror/comedy stories they could.

Trekkin
2013-09-28, 12:40 PM
Did we miss the Great Mockery? I was really looking forward to that!

Sorry, what's the Great Mockery?

Deffers
2013-09-28, 12:44 PM
The order I'd suggest for you to continue, Trekkin, is first finish Marty's origin story posts. Then, do whatever else. From then on you can use the Chief Circle stories as sort of "today's a special day. Have some more Chief Circle!" thing.

I wouldn't worry too much about it, though. You ARE a good writer and as long as you write well, continuously, you will get a following.

Qwertystop
2013-09-28, 05:40 PM
I think I've still got a log of my Exalted oneshot in which I was co-ST-ing, the only people who had ever played a tabletop RPG were me and the co-ST, my experience was all D&D play-by-posts (and never as DM), and nobody else (including the co-ST) had heard of Exalted til midway through the previous week when I pitched the idea.

It was amusing. One of the players wanted to start with Conviction 6 and 1 in everything else.

I also got to roleplay a Fair Folk who thought nobody would notice what he did if they weren't looking. It was mostly freeform by then.

The_Werebear
2013-09-29, 12:25 AM
Oh, I like writing it much too much to stop. .

Oh, good. It'll be nice to read some of your stuff without my brain trying to crawl out my ears in protest.

Malrone
2013-09-29, 04:57 AM
What's there to epilogue? Everyone loses, right?

Or is Trekkin locked in an asylum - again - while everyone else earns pats on the head from Sephiroth Cullen?

ReaderAt2046
2013-09-29, 11:13 AM
Sorry, what's the Great Mockery?

The Great Mockery is the scene (somewhere around Page 30 in the first thread), where you tell Ao-Sue exactly how ridiculous he is and suggest that CC seek psychiatric help.

Qwertystop
2013-09-29, 11:59 AM
I think I've still got a log of my Exalted oneshot in which I was co-ST-ing, the only people who had ever played a tabletop RPG were me and the co-ST, my experience was all D&D play-by-posts (and never as DM), and nobody else (including the co-ST) had heard of Exalted til midway through the previous week when I pitched the idea.

It was amusing. One of the players wanted to start with Conviction 6 and 1 in everything else.

I also got to roleplay a Fair Folk who thought nobody would notice what he did if they weren't looking. It was mostly freeform by then.

I found the log of this. Trekkin, you want me to write it up and PM it to you to see if you want it on the blog?

Trekkin
2013-09-29, 12:27 PM
Sure! That would be fantastic, Qwertystop. Sorry I hadn't responded sooner, but things have been hectic over here.

And Malrone, the epilogue is where I finally run out of patience. It also incorporates everything from the Mockery, but without all of Jin's "wait, stop, that's too harsh"-ing.

It just makes me giggle dementedly every time I read it.

Kish
2013-09-29, 12:40 PM
Looking forward to it.

ReaderAt2046
2013-09-29, 02:10 PM
Sure! That would be fantastic, Qwertystop. Sorry I hadn't responded sooner, but things have been hectic over here.

And Malrone, the epilogue is where I finally run out of patience. It also incorporates everything from the Mockery, but without all of Jin's "wait, stop, that's too harsh"-ing.

It just makes me giggle dementedly every time I read it.

Really looking forward to it! Please Quote!

The Grue
2013-09-29, 03:13 PM
Sure! That would be fantastic, Qwertystop. Sorry I hadn't responded sooner, but things have been hectic over here.

And Malrone, the epilogue is where I finally run out of patience. It also incorporates everything from the Mockery, but without all of Jin's "wait, stop, that's too harsh"-ing.

It just makes me giggle dementedly every time I read it.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NxiOJHvU_iU/UWDvNSzPwZI/AAAAAAAAHbU/V2rpnDE61oM/s1600/Stephen-Colbert-Popcorn.gif

Feddlefew
2013-09-29, 03:27 PM
Sure! That would be fantastic, Qwertystop. Sorry I hadn't responded sooner, but things have been hectic over here.

And Malrone, the epilogue is where I finally run out of patience. It also incorporates everything from the Mockery, but without all of Jin's "wait, stop, that's too harsh"-ing.

It just makes me giggle dementedly every time I read it.

It makes me giddily happy to know you do this.

Trekkin
2013-09-29, 05:17 PM
It makes me giddily happy to know you do this.

You too? It used to seriously creep people out when I did it.

Anyway, new post (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/09/suethulu-ians-epilogue.html)! This one is Ian's plan for the epliogue, I suppose.

jindra34
2013-09-29, 07:18 PM
That sounds more like notes for an epilogue, not an epilogue itself. Or is that really what CC/Marty thinks an epilogue is?

llehctim
2013-09-29, 07:20 PM
It was the plans I had for the character as well as the epilogue.

CoffeeIncluded
2013-09-29, 07:46 PM
So you wanted to run the apocalypse?

Mewtarthio
2013-09-29, 08:46 PM
I especially love the complicated eschatology in the footnotes. Well done! :smallbiggrin:

The Fury
2013-09-29, 09:01 PM
So you wanted to run the apocalypse?

From what I gather, it's more like he wanted to do something that would be consistent with where the campaign was heading and setting lore. Both of which appear to be quite stupid.
Considering what Llehctim had to work with as material, the apocalypse isn't that bad. Also, casting Vampire!Marty as the antichrist is a pretty good final "Take That!"

comicshorse
2013-09-30, 10:18 AM
So you wanted to run the apocalypse?

I've had days like that

BRC
2013-09-30, 11:02 AM
So the PC's succeeded in the goals they had been saying were their goals for a long time, and had thus "Outrun the Plot".

All I can think is that Marty had some DMPC he was waiting to spring on you as soon as you were about to lose, and you just never got to the point where you were about to lose.

Oddly enough, he seemed to be trying to cater EXACTLY to your playstyle, just in a very Marty way. He presented a big, open-ended puzzle ("Get Blackspire and the Tagers working together") and gave you a big toolbox (The world of CTECH) to play with. Its just that clashed with his "Multiple Choice Gameplay" playstyle and his competative mindset. He wanted to give you freedom, but hated the direction you took with it.

Mind you we're only getting your perspective, but I don't really see another path for you to take. Yes you could have done other things, but Marty had given you no indication that one of them would have been preferable.

My only thought is that Marty wanted a standard "Have your cake and eat it too" situation. Remember Awesome McSworddude from the previous campaign, the guy who worked for the Unneccessary Canonicity Police? Marty probably had him waiting in the wings.

He probably assumed you would default to PC standard Behavior: Hit things until the problem goes away. Here is how I imagine Marty wanted the game to go.

Players: We launch a frontal assault on the Chyrissalis Corporation!
Marty: As the Wise and Benevolent GM, I must tell you that is a terrible idea.
Players: We do it anyway!.
Marty: You assault the Chyrissalis Corporation, you are getting your asses handed to you, I DID tell you this was a bad idea.
Players: Oh no!
Marty: Suddenly a dude with a long black trenchcoat and two Katanas shows up and saves you!
Players: YAY!'
Marty: The dude tells you that you were idiots for trying this, and that you're lucky he showed up.
Players: Yes we are!


That is basically all I can think of, or some varient of the above. Marty clearly had a plan, some epic story he wanted to tell that you messed up by succeding in your goals. He clearly thought the next step was obvious (Since he gave no additional direction). He wanted you to fail so he could save you, but he didn't want to make you fail. He wanted you to fail on your own, and looking at his past behavior he wanted you to feel that it was your own fault. He didnt want to drop rocks on you, but he expected you to walk under the loose rocks and start hacking away at the supports.

Arbane
2013-09-30, 11:28 AM
According to one guy on RPGnet, Marty was something significantly WORSE than the antichrist:





As in, there's a character that is literally him in-game through some many-worlds shenanigans who's been going around to all of his favorite fictional universes and "fixing" them, and we're playing in one of the universes he's yet to "fix", and so we need to see how badly off we are before the god that is literally the GM in-universe fixes all our problems for us. Said deity is apparently literally invincible, as well, because he can read his OoC self's mind and knows what we're going to do before we do. Sort of. And apparently he can retroactively switch places with a clone of himself in case we manage to get around all of the above.

That's an Excrucian. Go on, anyone who plays Nobilis; tell me that isn't an Excrucian.

:smalleek:

He might be on to something.

For those who don't know Nobilis: The PCs are the living embodiments of the basic powers of the universe, like Gravity, Poetry, Time, Hunger, Laughter, and so on. The Excrucians are beings from outside reality who want to destroy it, one idea at a time.

So, what's it after? The Power of Fun, the Power of Logic, the Power of Stories and the Power of Games all better watch their asses...

llehctim
2013-09-30, 09:49 PM
From what I gather, it's more like he wanted to do something that would be consistent with where the campaign was heading and setting lore. Both of which appear to be quite stupid.
Considering what Llehctim had to work with as material, the apocalypse isn't that bad. Also, casting Vampire!Marty as the antichrist is a pretty good final "Take That!"

Basically this, although I was saving the antichrist thing for when he showed up so I could spring it on him, before he had time to prepare a defense against it, but the making a good guy cult was something I explicitly stated along with my logic that only cultists were able to accomplish anything.

Granted starting the apocalypse would not have been out of the question. I think at some point I had a plan to power-level so I could be an arch-mage, then use magic to create tons of nuclear materials and use a mega-ship with near infinite nuclear missiles to annihilate the Migo hiveship.

Arbane
2013-09-30, 10:12 PM
Granted starting the apocalypse would not have been out of the question. I think at some point I had a plan to power-level so I could be an arch-mage, then use magic to create tons of nuclear materials and use a mega-ship with near infinite nuclear missiles to annihilate the Migo hiveship.

Power-level? in Chief Circle's game?

You MIGHT have managed to hit level 3 by the time of the Advent of the Katanalord.

llehctim
2013-10-01, 12:55 AM
Power-level? in Chief Circle's game?

You MIGHT have managed to hit level 3 by the time of the Advent of the Katanalord.

I figured if I asked for level 18, I might have a chance at level 7, besides we "power-leveled" in his other game, with the grindstone town, just not in this one where we were supposed to feel the crushing dystopia and powerlessness

Trekkin
2013-10-01, 01:26 AM
New post (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/09/theyre-just-exalting-anybody-these-days.html)! And a submission at that.

Next one might be a few days. RL drama is so much fun...

Delta
2013-10-01, 03:54 AM
Nice story :) Although with a surprising lack of cluelessness on part of the players.

Cristo Meyers
2013-10-01, 08:36 AM
Well, that was fast. When empathy, self-interest, and basic human decency fail, there’s always guilt and fear to get the party working together.

High-explosive death collars work well too.

Well, maybe not so much in Exalted...

jindra34
2013-10-01, 09:33 AM
High-explosive death collars work well too.

Well, maybe not so much in Exalted...

No, those still work. They just need to be a whole lot more explosive. At which point the surroundings may be more damaged than the person. But they should still die.

Cristo Meyers
2013-10-01, 09:58 AM
No, those still work. They just need to be a whole lot more explosive. At which point the surroundings may be more damaged than the person. But they should still die.

Fair enough.

But once you start getting into Thermonuclear levels of "high explosive" you might as well start playing Paranoia. At least then having a thermonuclear explosive collar doesn't need to make sense.

Delta
2013-10-01, 10:13 AM
No, those still work. They just need to be a whole lot more explosive. At which point the surroundings may be more damaged than the person. But they should still die.

My Heavenly Guardian Defense disagrees!

BRC
2013-10-01, 10:32 AM
Fair enough.

But once you start getting into Thermonuclear levels of "high explosive" you might as well start playing Paranoia. At least then having a thermonuclear explosive collar doesn't need to make sense.

Possession of a Thermonuclear Explosive Collar is treason.

Attempting to remove the Thermonuclear Explosive Collar is treason.

You are suspected of treason, please put on this Thermonuclear Explosive Collar.

Failing to wear your assigned Thermonuclear Explosive Collar is treason.

Cristo Meyers
2013-10-01, 10:45 AM
Possession of a Thermonuclear Explosive Collar is treason.

Attempting to remove the Thermonuclear Explosive Collar is treason.

You are suspected of treason, please put on this Thermonuclear Explosive Collar.

Failing to wear your assigned Thermonuclear Explosive Collar is treason.

Ah, Paranoia, the only game where nuking an entire sector of Alpha Complex in order to destroy a hand-written paper note is considered a win. :smallamused:

Lord Raziere
2013-10-01, 10:47 AM
Possession of a Thermonuclear Explosive Collar is treason.

Attempting to remove the Thermonuclear Explosive Collar is treason.

You are suspected of treason, please put on this Thermonuclear Explosive Collar.

Failing to wear your assigned Thermonuclear Explosive Collar is treason.

*intentionally treating the joke seriously*

Well if anything I do or not do with it is treason, then I won't wear it. might as well choose the smart treason.

jindra34
2013-10-01, 10:51 AM
My Heavenly Guardian Defense disagrees!

Its not impossible to get around, nasty tricky but not impossible. I remember mathing out how to deal with a max heath levels Solar with the persistent perfect parry option. It came out to something similar in damage to the Total Annihilation solar circle spell. Except longer and more contained.

georgie_leech
2013-10-01, 11:07 AM
*intentionally treating the joke seriously*

Well if anything I do or not do with it is treason, then I won't wear it. might as well choose the smart treason.

Attempting to commit Treason in an intelligent manner is treason.

VeliciaL
2013-10-01, 02:49 PM
*intentionally treating the joke seriously*

Well if anything I do or not do with it is treason, then I won't wear it. might as well choose the smart treason.

The collar explodes.

What? It's a thermonuclear explosive collar, you don't need to be adjacent for it to punish you. :smallamused:

Alabenson
2013-10-01, 03:48 PM
Possession of a Thermonuclear Explosive Collar is treason.

Attempting to remove the Thermonuclear Explosive Collar is treason.

You are suspected of treason, please put on this Thermonuclear Explosive Collar.

Failing to wear your assigned Thermonuclear Explosive Collar is treason.

Obviously the correct answer is to attach the collar to another player, and then shoot them for committing treason.

The Grue
2013-10-01, 08:09 PM
High-explosive death collars work well too.

Oh hello, Father Elijah. I didn't recognize your forum nickname.

Arkhosia
2013-10-01, 08:12 PM
Oh hello, Father Elijah. I didn't recognize your forum nickname.

...I'll go get the gold bars. He might let us go this time.

Cristo Meyers
2013-10-02, 08:06 AM
...I'll go get the gold bars. He might let us go this time.

Or I'll have you killed by my army of holograms named Vera!:smallamused:

...

...once I, you know, get out of this safe.:smallsigh:

Lord Raziere
2013-10-02, 09:58 AM
The collar explodes.

What? It's a thermonuclear explosive collar, you don't need to be adjacent for it to punish you. :smallamused:

Still technically the smartest thing to do :smalltongue:

that and a lot of the Complex gets blown up as well so….The Computer would be screwing itself over.

so I do the same with all my clones in different locations until all the Complex is destroyed. :smallbiggrin:

LordChaos13
2013-10-02, 10:03 AM
Attempting to destroy the Complex with the Happyfuntime Collars is treason.
Treason is punishable by Happyfuntime
Report to the nearest Happyfuntime Collar Dispensery for Happyfuntime

Arkhosia
2013-10-02, 01:28 PM
Or I'll have you killed by my army of holograms named Vera!:smallamused:

...

...once I, you know, get out of this safe.:smallsigh:

Best villain defeat ever.

Vknight
2013-10-04, 11:21 AM
Best villain defeat ever.

Yup, sneaking away with 37 gold bars and a few mines set to the entrance.
or Mines

Also newest story reminds me of the time I tried to explain/run Exalted to people. It did not go well.
Also should post the Shadowrun scenario with the Mariachi Band, Plasma Cannon, a Bounty Hunter called Cat, and a party with no magic

The Grue
2013-10-04, 03:30 PM
Yup, sneaking away with 37 gold bars and a few mines set to the entrance.
or Mines

I only ever managed to fit one or two. But that's because Str tends to be my dump stat.

Arkhosia
2013-10-04, 03:42 PM
I only ever managed to fit one or two. But that's because Str tends to be my dump stat.

I never actually went to the casino. The hardcore-iness scared me off.
Love the Gun Runners, though. Especially but that my anti materiel rifle shoots bombs.

But I digress.

Now I want to play Exalted...
Too bad I've already spent enough on 4E.

Feddlefew
2013-10-04, 04:06 PM
I only ever managed to fit one or two. But that's because Str tends to be my dump stat.

Ah. So you don't know the secret.

I got away with ALL the gold. :smalltongue:

The Grue
2013-10-04, 04:11 PM
No I don't know the secret. :(

But I never needed the money, having been banned from playing blackjack at every casino on the strip.

Deffers
2013-10-04, 04:38 PM
This makes me wonder how Marty would take on the Fallout Universe. On the one hand, if he's not immune to "energy," there is a LOT I could do to the bastard using Elijah's Advanced LAER after it's been fully upgraded, with max charged microfusion cells. :smallamused:

Wait. He might rule that one's electrical. I'd have to use the Holorifle instead... and I'd have to nail the shot from far enough away or close enough that he wouldn't have time to react. Fine by me. One to the head and bam, he's dead.

Or a proton axe! A proton axe would do just fine. I mean, I love the image of Marty getting utterly skewered by every technological power in the Mojave deciding to work together in face of a greater threat. Concentrated Securitron gatling laser fire supported by plasma casters around a crater... yes...

And the best part is, it'd be very hard for him to make sure energy weapons retroactively never existed, because Mr. House's laser array on top of the Lucky 38 was the entire reason the Mojave Wasteland is as clean as it is in comparison to the rest of the continental US. I mean, sure, he could wipe out the Mojave wasteland... but then there'd be untold changes to the NCR caused by the Desert Rangers never happening. The West Coast BoS probably never would have survived.

I also wonder who he'd ally with as superior tacticians. Probably Caesar, Father Elijah, and the Think Tank working together with the Tunnelers to somehow create a Utopia.

LordChaos13
2013-10-04, 04:41 PM
"No see he is only Basically vulnerable to energy weapons. Even assuming the fighting factions would ally to fight off the Martyssiah (which they wouldnt they basically wont ally ever) their weaponry aren't actually energy but rather *insert technobabble completely wrong here*
So now that is sorted let's get back to making the fighting factions ally because they recognize the utopia he can offer them"

Deffers
2013-10-04, 04:50 PM
See, the hilarious thing is there's so many energy weapons with such varied methods of operation, that I could run out the clock. Start dumb and work my way up from there. Like the sonic emitter! Obviously won't work because sound. Plasma rifle! Won't work because X. Laser Rifle! 'Nother X. Green Laser Rifle- higher wavelength, after all! 'Nother X. Mr. House's Laser Array! 'Nother X. Plasma Caster!

...I think you get where I'm going with this. And when I've used up all other weaponry...

"Euclid's C Finder. The Solaris Plant is fully active." :smallamused:

Deophaun
2013-10-04, 05:27 PM
I also wonder who he'd ally with as superior tacticians. Probably Caesar, Father Elijah, and the Think Tank working together with the Tunnelers to somehow create a Utopia.
Eh, I'd think Dr Mobius and Mr. House.

Anyway, clearly Marty would recruit the Courier and the Lone Wanderer. I doubt CC could resist the allure of imposing his narrative on the character development of everyone who has played the games.

Deffers
2013-10-04, 05:38 PM
But Dr. Mobius isn't a horrible villain. Nor is he a master tactician. Also, he's perpetually tripping on Mentats.

I'm afraid he might "recruit" the Courier, though, now that you bring it up.

The Grue
2013-10-04, 05:38 PM
He'd probably clean up the Sierra Madre and turn it into his private holiday retreat. After somehow turning all the Ghost People back to human.

Deophaun
2013-10-04, 06:10 PM
But Dr. Mobius isn't a horrible villain. Nor is he a master tactician. Also, he's perpetually tripping on Mentats.
Dr. Mobius is much more competent than the entire Think Tank;
He is the one that screwed with their sense of time and place, and tricked them into never leaving the central dome. And in doing all this, showed that the think tank robobrains (including himself) can, essentially, be reprogrammed.
Plus, he's got better technology.

Deffers
2013-10-04, 06:32 PM
Both those things are true, but that doesn't make him a tactician, per se. I was more referencing the way Marty straight up decided that Palpatine was a cool guy after all. Mobius is a kindly old floating brain who can't even wield a katana. Marty would never roll with him.

Deophaun
2013-10-04, 07:08 PM
Both those things are true, but that doesn't make him a tactician, per se. I was more referencing the way Marty straight up decided that Palpatine was a cool guy after all. Mobius is a kindly old floating brain who can't even wield a katana. Marty would never roll with him.
But what if we replaced Mobius's monitors with katanas. Certainly his roboscorpions can have their pincers forged from katanas. Who knows, Mobius might even be able to make a katana-based super computer.

Regardless, if he wasn't going to pall around with Mobius, he wouldn't pall around with the Think Tank, either.

Deffers
2013-10-04, 07:21 PM
They're just thoroughly horrible enough in their results that maybe he considers them good guys. Like, yunno, the Emperor, or the Auditors of Reality.

Though Dr. Borous might hit a little too close to home. :smallwink:

The Fury
2013-10-04, 10:50 PM
But what if we replaced Mobius's monitors with katanas. Certainly his roboscorpions can have their pincers forged from katanas. Who knows, Mobius might even be able to make a katana-based super computer.


Why not? Apparently katanas are excellent (super?)conductors for some reason.

Vknight
2013-10-04, 11:08 PM
But what if we replaced Mobius's monitors with katanas. Certainly his roboscorpions can have their pincers forged from katanas. Who knows, Mobius might even be able to make a katana-based super computer.

Regardless, if he wasn't going to pall around with Mobius, he wouldn't pall around with the Think Tank, either.

Marty with Modius.

So now instead of

The Super Star Destroyer with one massive gun.
Its also got Giant Scorpions that leap onto enemy ships with katana wielding mecha riding them

Balmas
2013-10-04, 11:44 PM
Eh, I'd think Dr Mobius and Mr. House.

Anyway, clearly Marty would recruit the Courier and the Lone Wanderer. I doubt CC could resist the allure of imposing his narrative on the character development of everyone who has played the games.

Hmm. I can't decide whether it would be more Chief Circle-ish to force his PCs to be the always-level-two courier, or the person watching the Courier doing awesome things with Katanas.


Marty with Modius.

So now instead of

The Super Star Destroyer with one massive gun.
Its also got Giant Scorpions that leap onto enemy ships with katana wielding mecha riding them

No, see, that's actually a cool idea. As such, it's the polar opposite of everything Marty stands for.

Deffers
2013-10-04, 11:58 PM
No way. Marty could never intentionally be that cool, even if it's ridiculously cool. The only cool he could be is the off-brand one you find in the dingiest aisles of K-marts, where the letter "l" is actually just a capital letter "i." CooI.

See, it's kind of a karmic balance. Sure, the players may never have agency, but they can legitimately be badasses who do the impossible. See: Cael outrunning the plot in a cheese forge.

Marty, though? Marty can't ever be cool. Sure, he can have all the lightsaber katanas he wants, and the bright red trench coats to boot. But will he ever be cool? No. That shall forever be beyond the reach of him and his ilk, like Blackhawk.

EDIT: Swordsaged.

Deophaun
2013-10-05, 12:05 AM
No, see, that's actually a cool idea. As such, it's the polar opposite of everything Marty stands for.

No way. Marty could never intentionally be that cool, even if it's ridiculously cool.
OK, you win. Marty would not recruit Dr. Mobius.

But he would make sure that all the smoke detectors in bathrooms are completely tamperproof and guarded by cheese-resistant dhohanoids. Just to spite Richie Marcus and Betsy Bright.

captpike
2013-10-05, 12:10 AM
OMG I just finished reading all three threads and the blog (and my god it took forever but it was worth it), and might I say that it is entertaining, part of me wishes you had done operation "laugh in the Sue's face" but most of me realizes that it would be a really bad idea for any number of ideas. not the lease of which is "Ow my spleen!!, I need that marty"

anyone else tempted to put a copy of marty in their game as like the most weak npc ever? maybe as some random peasant that wants to be an adventurer, and then starts giving out orders to the PCs and acting like a coward in fights.

Deffers
2013-10-05, 12:23 AM
Sort of! I was actually thinking, after BRC's SUE Game Generator idea, to maybe have a Marty Sue Generator as well, where you can have your own campaign's main villain be an impossible combination of "kewl" traits along with personality traits and special abilities.

Of course, such a thing would require effort to make, which... yeah. :smallsigh:

Deophaun
2013-10-05, 12:25 AM
anyone else tempted to put a copy of marty in their game as like the most weak npc ever? maybe as some random peasant that wants to be an adventurer, and then starts giving out orders to the PCs and acting like a coward in fights.
You know, he would be good as a somewhat talented illusionist/enchanter who likes to look important and awesome while not actually having anything to back it up, like Gilderoy Lockheart. (That's not actually Lelouch standing next to him, it's a stable boy he charmed and glamored to look like Lelouch) Such a presentation would let him stick around long enough to make your players long for his death, and get satisfaction when he goes down like the punk he is.

Bonus points if he has no martial capability whatsoever, but does have something like Perform: Weapon Drill maxed. He's real showy with those katanas, but that's about it.

captpike
2013-10-05, 12:29 AM
maybe a guy who's only magical ability is to summon katana's and make them glow any color he wants, that is it. he THINKS he can use them well but not so much.

georgie_leech
2013-10-05, 12:34 AM
Wait, did we just find a character concept that Shining Blade of Heironeous is actually good for? :smalleek:

captpike
2013-10-05, 12:53 AM
it cant cause more san loss then the cheese forge (ok maybe it can)

Arbane
2013-10-05, 01:41 AM
I haven't played Fallout 3 yet, so when you all started talking about Dr. Mobius, I thought you meant the mad scientist pharaoh High Lord from the old RPG TORG.

The premise of the game was that the overlords of multiple encroaching realities were invading Earth to replace its laws of reality with their own, to sap it of its Possibility Energy, and....

Hm.

...Okay, so what's Marty's Darkness Device? I'd guess it's his favorite Katana, but it's usually something you don't move around much.... maybe the binder he keeps his assembled 'houserules' in?

Sith_Happens
2013-10-05, 02:42 AM
Wait, did we just find a character concept that Shining Blade of Heironeous is actually good for? :smalleek:

...

OH MY—

*sputters incoherently*

The SUE Files have reached yet another entirely new level of insanity.

Vknight
2013-10-05, 03:16 AM
...

OH MY—

*sputters incoherently*

The SUE Files have reached yet another entirely new level of insanity.

I agree Sith.
The realization I'm tasting copper.

Feddlefew
2013-10-05, 03:21 AM
Wait, did we just find a character concept that Shining Blade of Heironeous is actually good for? :smalleek:

What is this and why is it terrible?

TuggyNE
2013-10-05, 03:31 AM
What is this and why is it terrible?

It's a PrC. That gives you a sword. That glows.

Basically.

Vknight
2013-10-05, 03:39 AM
It's a PrC. That gives you a sword. That glows.

Basically.

Thankyou Tuggy, I spent 5 or so minutes trying to explain that it gives you a sword that glows for things like.

Super Intelligent Horse
Better Casting
Better Casting
More worthwhile Prestige Classes
Caster Progression
Taking a dip in Fighter

georgie_leech
2013-10-05, 03:41 AM
What is this and why is it terrible?

It's a PRC (http://dndtools.eu/classes/shining-blade-of-heironeous/) that, over the course of nine levels (the tenth just progresses spell casting, 'cause it's 5/10 spell progression) gives you the ability to, as a standard action, add Shock, Holy, or Brilliant Energy to a weapon you wield for an insultingly short duration. Said abilities are removed if the weapon leaves your hands, so no enchanting party weapons either. There was a thread a while back that at some point had the challenge to come up with a build using SBoH that was better than just taking more levels of the classes you used to qualify. An attempt was made using Adept, but it was debatable whether Adept 14/SBoH 6 was actually any better than Adept 20.

Vknight
2013-10-05, 07:14 AM
Hmm. I can't decide whether it would be more Chief Circle-ish to force his PCs to be the always-level-two courier, or the person watching the Courier doing awesome things with Katanas.

No, see, that's actually a cool idea. As such, it's the polar opposite of everything Marty stands for.

Probably the second. Similar to the stuff with the awesome aliens, but its one guy(maybe some companions)

I will take that as a compliment, and strive to making a scenario in some system about all the stupid things I've read about Chief Circle and trying to make them awesome.

caden_varn
2013-10-05, 09:02 AM
...Okay, so what's Marty's Darkness Device? I'd guess it's his favorite Katana, but it's usually something you don't move around much.... maybe the binder he keeps his assembled 'houserules' in?

Better get searching for his stelae and dig them up, then Marty's whole reality will disappear.
Although, as other posters have said, the world is likely to take care of that eventually...
Although it's a thought - is Marty-Sue vulnerable to reality storms? Covert him to the Living Land perhaps? :smallwink:

Arbane
2013-10-05, 04:06 PM
Although it's a thought - is Marty-Sue vulnerable to reality storms? Covert him to the Living Land perhaps? :smallwink:

Being stuck in a Katanaless cosm - would be a fate worse than death for him.

Mx.Silver
2013-10-05, 04:13 PM
Dr. Mobius is much more competent than the entire Think Tank;


You say that like it's an accomplishment. The Courier's own brain is largely more competent than the think tank, even if it does get stuck in a perpetual loop if you've activated Helios One.

Anyway, we all know Marty would end-up in charge of the Enclave, and manage to convince the Brotherhood of Steel to unite with them through his superior diplomacy which would convicne them to abandon their code, after which they'd just take over the NCR and nuke The Legion. Then he'd bring the talking Deathclaws back because they're basically the super choice to super mutants.


Though Dr. Borous might hit a little too close to home.
And now I'm going to have read all of CC's lines in that voice.

Deophaun
2013-10-05, 04:26 PM
You say that like it's an accomplishment. The Courier's own brain is largely more competent than the think tank, even if it does get stuck in a perpetual loop if you've activated Helios One.
You just kind of lost the thread on that whole discussion, didn't you?

Vknight
2013-10-05, 05:31 PM
Talking Deathclaws are, and always will be awesome in my books. And a fun idea

Big Fau
2013-10-05, 06:59 PM
It's a PRC (http://dndtools.eu/classes/shining-blade-of-heironeous/) that, over the course of nine levels (the tenth just progresses spell casting, 'cause it's 5/10 spell progression) gives you the ability to, as a standard action, add Shock, Holy, or Brilliant Energy to a weapon you wield for an insultingly short duration. Said abilities are removed if the weapon leaves your hands, so no enchanting party weapons either. There was a thread a while back that at some point had the challenge to come up with a build using SBoH that was better than just taking more levels of the classes you used to qualify. An attempt was made using Adept, but it was debatable whether Adept 14/SBoH 6 was actually any better than Adept 20.

You know what really bothers me about the SBoH? It's intended for Paladins as a 5/10s casting PrC, but Paladins all ready get 1/2 their Paladin class level as their caster level (instead of full class level). A Paladin 10/SBoH 10 (God help him, but not Heironeous) has a caster level of 7 at most, barring CL boosters.

Arbane
2013-10-05, 10:05 PM
Not that it would have ever come up given the glacial rate of advance, but did The SUE system have anything like prestige classes?

Feddlefew
2013-10-05, 10:34 PM
Not that it would have ever come up given the glacial rate of advance, but did The SUE system have anything like prestige classes?

Besides DMPC?

Trekkin
2013-10-05, 10:47 PM
New post (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/10/suethulu-basically-end.html). Cael's epilogue.

It's a bit different than I remembered it...a lot worse, actually.

I might be able to make it into something good enough to play, come to think of it...

Zelphas
2013-10-05, 11:05 PM
That... was beautiful.

Arkhosia
2013-10-05, 11:10 PM
That... was beautiful.

I'm crying with amazement.

And how could he ever tell the difference?
Nice! If Marty did anything that congratulate or look at you in shock, he will have lost any respect I may hold for him

Lord Raziere
2013-10-05, 11:14 PM
I agree.

that….that is simply beautiful…

that is a legend to span all of time… a legend of a man who gone mad with sanity...

Trekkin
2013-10-05, 11:19 PM
Well, as I see it, he asked me what the epilogue is, so what I told him is canon -- and he never said no.

It's my (desperate justification for my) headcanon anyway.

Thank you, though.

A_Man
2013-10-05, 11:40 PM
I'm crying with amazement.

And how could he ever tell the difference?
Nice! If Marty did anything that congratulate or look at you in shock, he will have lost any respect I may hold for him

You had any respect left for him? ;p

georgie_leech
2013-10-05, 11:43 PM
You had any respect left for him? ;p

Well he did technically ask Trekkin to write the epilogue. :smallbiggrin:

Arbane
2013-10-05, 11:46 PM
That was great. It's like all the Awesome CC was desperately trying to deny for the entire campaign occurred AT ONCE. Now that's how you do a multiverse campaign.

TuggyNE
2013-10-06, 12:14 AM
"Conversion drives are more or less averaging devices. They convert matter into matter and antimatter, or in this case, information into logic and [SUE System] skill mechanics."

Possibly the most quotable quote in the whole thing.

Deffers
2013-10-06, 12:15 AM
I love the epilogue. I love it in twenty directions all at once. It is fantastic. It is beautiful. And this?


That's why teaching is so much better than preaching; everyone takes your ideas and runs with them and makes them their own and they've spun off in a million new directions, and rather than holy wars you can greet that with high-fives. There will not be a "the" revolution, nor a single revolutionary period. There will be a continuous, rolling wave of human awesomeness endlessly diversifying in ways I can barely imagine-- and don't want to. This isn't, and it shouldn't be, one person's story.

That right there is... the best. Cael didn't need a trenchcoat, or a massive army, or even just a katana to win. Cael won just with defiance. Cael won with knowledge. I mean, look at this! This is your bad writing? No. This is legendary. I friggin' love it.

And I'll second the sentiment: THAT is how you do a goddamn multiverse campaign.

Sith_Happens
2013-10-06, 02:22 AM
Hm, I feel like I might of understood any of that were I to have ever read any Discworld or Culture. Oh well, it was still entertaining and the last few lines were simply masterful.


Well, as I see it, he asked me what the epilogue is, so what I told him is canon -- and he never said no.

It's my (desperate justification for my) headcanon anyway.

Thank you, though.


Well he did technically ask Trekkin to write the epilogue. :smallbiggrin:

Yeah, I'm surprised and confused that he actually asked for any input as to the epilogue rather than writing the whole thing himself and sending it to all of you.:smallconfused:

Trekkin
2013-10-06, 02:40 AM
Yeah, I'm surprised and confused that he actually asked for any input as to the epilogue rather than writing the whole thing himself and sending it to all of you.:smallconfused:

I did say it was idle. He didn't earnestly ask us for input; it was closer in tone to wondering out loud, and I took it way too seriously.

Come to think of it, he may have been working on the novelization.

Sir_Mopalot
2013-10-06, 03:02 AM
I would read that novel, if it had your ending. And middle. And probably beginning too.

One Step Two
2013-10-06, 03:55 AM
Masterful, simply amazing.

In reading that, all I can bring to mind is something from Werewolf the Apocalypse, paraphrased roughly as this.

"We will fight long, and hard, we will kill so many, that even as we fall and the world is consumed in darkness, our enemy will look into the darkness and feel fear. That despite our destruction, we might yet return."

Marty might dismiss you, and ignore your words. But I promise that when he talks about the SUEverse, some deep part of him will cringe at the idea that Cael will ride in on his engine of impossible destruction to rain hell down on the Ao-Sue in the form of correctly working physics and cold, calculating fury.

TuggyNE
2013-10-06, 04:58 AM
correctly working physics and cold, calculating fury.

Leetle bit redundant there, no? :smallwink:

One Step Two
2013-10-06, 05:41 AM
Leetle bit redundant there, no? :smallwink:

I don't see how, but then, I'm of a mind redundancies are a good thing when it comes to planning, and revenge.

LordChaos13
2013-10-06, 05:41 AM
Leetle bit redundant there, no? :smallwink:

in what way?
Correctly working physics when talking about Marty isn't redundant, in marty's world incorrectly working physics is the norm

Balmas
2013-10-06, 05:42 AM
That... that was beautiful. I will treasure this forever.

TuggyNE
2013-10-06, 05:47 AM
in what way?
Correctly working physics when talking about Marty isn't redundant, in marty's world incorrectly working physics is the norm

Mentioning "cold, calculating fury" is unnecessary when you've already put "correctly working physics" near CC. :smalltongue:

ReaderAt2046
2013-10-06, 07:40 AM
You built. a ship. that. runs. on. STUPIDITY!!!

That's even better than my ideas on how to use DM fiat as a power source.

And I like the point that Marty could break free of the trap at any time, but he won't because it would require him to admit that he was in one in the first place.

Arkhosia
2013-10-06, 08:38 AM
You had any respect left for him? ;p

Just a sliver for having the guts to actually try to make a RPG in the first place.

Silverbit
2013-10-06, 10:35 AM
Trekkin, I salute you. That epilogue was glorious. Glorious. You defeated Marty with his own multiverse, then made it impossible for him to ever even THINK of using Vampmarty again (VR imprisonment. Well done.). Magnificent. Someone speak to the mods, this thread series needs stickying.

(And insurrection via Culture-allied feegles led by computer witches? I bow to you.)

Deffers
2013-10-06, 10:43 AM
The best part is, when you think about it, by Marty's own rules, Trekkin just became co-Authyr, didn't he? No editing, no nothing, express verbal permission given by Chief Circle to make the epilogue. Beyond that, Trekkin told the story of how things went down through his blog. Two things, therefore; 1)I'm sorry that's technically one of your titles now, Trekkin and 2) what he's written is exactly as cannon as what Chief Circle's written-- perhaps it's even the "stronger" cannon because it's far, far more popular than CC's manuscripts. :smallamused:

Waker
2013-10-06, 12:06 PM
The best part is, when you think about it, by Marty's own rules, Trekkin just became co-Authyr, didn't he? No editing, no nothing, express verbal permission given by Chief Circle to make the epilogue. Beyond that, Trekkin told the story of how things went down through his blog. Two things, therefore; 1)I'm sorry that's technically one of your titles now, Trekkin and 2) what he's written is exactly as cannon as what Chief Circle's written-- perhaps it's even the "stronger" cannon because it's far, far more popular than CC's manuscripts. :smallamused:

So Trekkin can adopt the title of Authyr without having to actually write a setting? Kinda makes me think of some of the mortal heroes/villains that ascend to deities in various games through trickery and sheer willpower. He faced his trials and remained unbroken.

Deffers
2013-10-06, 12:29 PM
Well, the way I see it is, by writing the epilogue as requested by Chief Circle himself, Trekkin became co-author and thus, co-Authyr, making his stuff just as canon as Marty's (or moreso, because of the success of the SUE Files).

Trekkin
2013-10-06, 01:08 PM
(And insurrection via Culture-allied feegles led by computer witches? I bow to you.)

It almost wasn't.

I've got a bunch of random brain-dump notes from that night, one of which is a much more Star Trek-esque version of the ship crewed entirely by the bits of settings he'd left alone -- and the 'orphan' characters that existed in the interstitial spaces.

Apparently Trope-Tan was to be navigator, and for communications we had F'tagnshy. ([Jin's player] was one of the few people Marty made an Authyr who he actually knew personally, and one of the things he'd made was a MLP/CoC crossover. Out of that came, well...a Friend to All Eldritch Abominations). It looks like Old Man Henderson was helmsman, and the rest of the posts were question marks -- Son of a Woodsman for Worf-Analogue[?], that kind of thing.

It was too much like Marty's accruing generals for my liking, though, to assume so many disparate people would want to come along.

Terumitsu
2013-10-06, 01:42 PM
I've been reading this since the first thread and though I've held silent the entire time, I have to speak up now because of that last blog post.

Not only was it an amazing trainwreck of fun ideas, I want to play in that setting. I imagine it would be akin to an even more wild and wacky and crazy fun Spelljammer game as the post epilogue setting (Which I have taken to just calling the Trekk-verse) seems to just lend itself to an enjoyable and chaotically creative atmosphere around the game table. It has that 'There's a great big wide world out there! Go explore it!' sense to it with how the epilogue played out or at least is implied by the aftermath. And of course, it has plenty of room and even a built in reason for there to be great heroes and vile villains and everything in between.

Probably the best part? No reason that this wouldn't work with any setting's mechanics given that it was technically spawned from something that used every setting's mechanics. Sure, some may not be fitting tone-wise but maybe sometimes it would be kinda funny to see what happens when you drop a Rouge Trader ship in orbit around Oerth.

Maybe I'm just going crazy on the possibilities here.

But all in all, it was a great ride and I've definitely picked up a few things I can do to improve my own games. So I thank you Trekken, Jin, Ian, and Darya, for somehow managing to make one humdinger of a pearl out of all that suffering.

Though, hopefully in the future, the games will be more properly enjoyable.

Trekkin
2013-10-06, 01:59 PM
]
But all in all, it was a great ride and I've definitely picked up a few things I can do to improve my own games. So I thank you Trekken, Jin, Ian, and Darya, for somehow managing to make one humdinger of a pearl out of all that suffering.

Thanks, but we're not done yet. We had a lot of bad games in college and elsewhere, and beyond that I like writing this stuff.

I think next up I'm going to try to dissect Cthulhutech outside of Marty's way of running it and maybe see if there's a way to ameliorate the problems in the setting.

Terumitsu
2013-10-06, 02:06 PM
I didn't mean to say I would stop reading the blog by any means. It's been way too fun to quit any time soon

Though, although I know it was made for awful games, I was curious as to if one could also relay stories about games that go horribly wrong in the most amusing of ways rather than it being the fault of any one person?

Trekkin
2013-10-06, 02:16 PM
Though, although I know it was made for awful games, I was curious as to if one could also relay stories about games that go horribly wrong in the most amusing of ways rather than it being the fault of any one person?

Of course! Those are in some ways even better.

Mx.Silver
2013-10-06, 02:47 PM
Well, as I see it, he asked me what the epilogue is, so what I told him is canon -- and he never said no.

You can't tell, but I'm applauding this.

The_Werebear
2013-10-06, 03:39 PM
And the Cheese-Forges fall silent across the multiverse.

oudeis
2013-10-06, 03:58 PM
Trekkin:

I have to ask, when/where did you learn about all the subjects where you've proven [Marty] knew less than you? Going back to the beginning of this saga, you've refuted his assertions in philosophy, linguistics, political science, history, physics, inorganic chemistry, economics, sociology, psychology, and various applied science and engineering disciplines including his own. I can see how you might come by the physics and chemistry through your degree requirements, but how did you find the time to study all of the others on top of your major work?

The Glyphstone
2013-10-06, 04:22 PM
Trekkin mentioned he likes to wiki a lot. That might be it.

Malrone
2013-10-06, 05:24 PM
The power of the Wiki is a mighty one, where hyperlinks beget hyperlinks in an infinite loop of knowledge propagation. Time is devoured by the Wiki. Consciousness is devoured by the Wiki.

After all, TVTropes Will Ruin Your Life.

Trekkin
2013-10-06, 05:25 PM
It's mostly that, yes.

I started working in a molecular biology lab when I was 16, and there's only so much maintenance you can do to pass the time while you're babysitting thermal cyclers or whatever. I had to use a laptop anyway since I can't write, so I had a lot of idle time in close proximity to the Internet and I guess it just became a habit. Six years later, here we are.

LordChaos13
2013-10-06, 05:28 PM
The power of the Wiki is a mighty one, where hyperlinks beget hyperlinks in an infinite loop of knowledge propagation. Time is devoured by the Wiki. Consciousness is devoured by the Wiki.

After all, TVTropes Will Ruin Your Life (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife).

Fixed that for you :smalltongue:

Forrestfire
2013-10-06, 05:36 PM
Fixed that for you :smalltongue:

You fool! (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouFool) You've doomed (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DoomyDoomsOfDoom)us all! (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OhCrap) :smalltongue:

LordChaos13
2013-10-06, 05:46 PM
You fool! (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouFool) You've doomed (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DoomyDoomsOfDoom)us all! (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OhCrap) :smalltongue:

Ha! I have developed an immunity to TvTropes after a long summer and no good games (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AcquiredPoisonImmunity)
You only punish yourself and the other viewers in the thread
*cackles maniacally* (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilLaugh)

oudeis
2013-10-06, 05:49 PM
It's mostly that, yes.

I started working in a molecular biology lab when I was 16, and there's only so much maintenance you can do to pass the time while you're babysitting thermal cyclers or whatever. I had to use a laptop anyway since I can't write, so I had a lot of idle time in close proximity to the Internet and I guess it just became a habit. Six years later, here we are.I was going to ask if your knowledge was obtained specifically in response to the pompous blathering of your nemesis, but this makes sense.

Forrestfire
2013-10-06, 05:49 PM
Oh man. I just remembered that I changed my signature. It used to have something like eight pot holes in one sentence :smalltongue:

ReaderAt2046
2013-10-06, 08:31 PM
And the Cheese-Forges fall silent across the multiverse.

I have this idea for a campaign in which the BBEG and the heroes are in a race to find and assemble the Cheese Forge.

"But," you say, " YOU DON'T FORGE CHEESE!"

Ah, but this is no ordinary cheese. This is the Cheese Of Ascension, the legendary substance that enables a mortal to ascend to godhood. After the dawn of the world, the Hammer of Pun-Pun, the Anvil of Marty and the Bellows of Henderson were removed from the Forge and hidden in the different corners of the world to prevent the Forge from ever again being used.

Deffers
2013-10-06, 08:46 PM
Spoiler Alert: The Anvil of Mary actually IS Marty-- the top of his head, in particular. Don't worry, though. You won't disturb his VR simulation.

The Bellows of Henderson are mostly finding him, getting him damn good rum, and then telling him he needs to call for his wee men. Surprisingly good at delivering air to fire!

stupiddDice
2013-10-06, 11:45 PM
That was a beautiful conclusion to this deluge of madness and absurdity.

Someone get this man a good GM!

The Fury
2013-10-07, 01:42 AM
"See, there aren't Great People. People are great already,"

...That's beautiful. I think I might actually like this better than "Toby's Lighter Fluid Growler Bar."

CoffeeIncluded
2013-10-07, 01:30 PM
ThAt...that was beautiful. That was a work of art and I can just see it.

A_Man
2013-10-07, 06:58 PM
Thanks, but we're not done yet. We had a lot of bad games in college and elsewhere, and beyond that I like writing this stuff.

I think next up I'm going to try to dissect Cthulhutech outside of Marty's way of running it and maybe see if there's a way to ameliorate the problems in the setting.

Ooh, that sounds very interesting. ^_^

Mx.Silver
2013-10-08, 01:11 PM
Ooh, that sounds very interesting. ^_^

From what I saw of it in the Something Awful thread Trekkin linked to, it would seem that most of fixing it would be: 'take out all the rape and creepy fetishistic stuff'.

Friv
2013-10-08, 01:46 PM
From what I saw of it in the Something Awful thread Trekkin linked to, it would seem that most of fixing it would be: 'take out all the rape and creepy fetishistic stuff'.

While those are the biggest problems with the setting, there's also a lot of societal bizarreness and dubious science filling up the pages, plus some mild-to-moderate racism issues, and also you need to move it to an entirely different mechanical system, plus there's the minor issue of the incredible hostility the original devs have towards people who don't take every detail as perfect truth.

It's probably better to just take a few of its good ideas and create something new with them than it would be to try and repair what exists.

Cristo Meyers
2013-10-08, 02:00 PM
While those are the biggest problems with the setting, there's also a lot of societal bizarreness and dubious science filling up the pages, plus some mild-to-moderate racism issues, and also you need to move it to an entirely different mechanical system, plus there's the minor issue of the incredible hostility the original devs have towards people who don't take every detail as perfect truth.

It's probably better to just take a few of its good ideas and create something new with them than it would be to try and repair what exists.

Pretty much my thoughts too. There are a couple of somewhat interesting ideas buried in there. Better to just extract them and run than try and get the system working as is. "Hot mess" is a charitable way to describe it.

Deffers
2013-10-08, 02:12 PM
Yeah. At least in CC's version, the psychic who could obviate the entire plot instantly by RAW is not a character you can make happen with standard chargen. Like CC's version, though, you had to slog through slow, painstaking increases in power to get to the point where you could do that.

Still, though; top-tier gravity psychics can, RAW, destroy the entire Migou ship that's causing so much trouble in CTech through the use of a telescope. And I might be reading it wrong, but there's totally nothing stopping you from getting to that power level with a standard character. From there, you've taken down an entire enemy faction, and probably inspired so much hope in humanity that you've severely crippled the methods that several cults use to get more people.

You could also insta-destroy all but one of the villains in the premade modules no matter how badly the designers claim it'd be "suicide" to take these foes on. And avatars of Hastur kinda have a bad track record when it comes to taking on creative PC's, so... :smallamused:

georgie_leech
2013-10-08, 02:40 PM
You could also insta-destroy all but one of the villains in the premade modules no matter how badly the designers claim it'd be "suicide" to take these foes on. And avatars of Hastur kinda have a bad track record when it comes to taking on creative PC's, so... :smallamused:

Trying to balance around Henderson(s) is kind of an exercise in futility though, so I wouldn't count that as a flaw in Ctech. After all, the Namesake came from the original CoC.

Trekkin
2013-10-08, 03:32 PM
It's probably better to just take a few of its good ideas and create something new with them than it would be to try and repair what exists.

The more I read into the setting, the more I find myself breaking it down to the thematic level and building it back up into something more cohesive.

Thankfully, it's so schizophrenic that you can get the basics of four or five usable settings out of it -- and that's part of what I'm working on. It's like recycling, really, trying to pick which game each bit of insanity belongs to and which bits (like most of the Nazzadi aesthetic) aren't worth the trouble.

This is turning into a long, long article.

Leliel
2013-10-08, 04:29 PM
The more I read into the setting, the more I find myself breaking it down to the thematic level and building it back up into something more cohesive.

Thankfully, it's so schizophrenic that you can get the basics of four or five usable settings out of it -- and that's part of what I'm working on. It's like recycling, really, trying to pick which game each bit of insanity belongs to and which bits (like most of the Nazzadi aesthetic) aren't worth the trouble.

This is turning into a long, long article.

Hey, here's an idea:

Steal from Eclipse Phase. Humanity must become something else if it is to survive in any form that isn't a fate worse than simple extinction.

Hell, maybe the Chrysalis Corp. realized this a long time ago, and Dhohanoids are their attempt to make us look like an ideal chosen race to one of the Great Old Ones (Nyarlathotep is foremost among them, but also Shub-Niggurath and Yog-Sototh) and earn their protection from Hastur and the Mi-go. First among these is adaptability-we can be any form our alien gods want or need, we just need to be able to return to our original on occasion.

Of course, this is based on a very backwards understanding of what the Old Ones are-Nyarlathotep isn't intentionally malevolent or cruel, it's just his nature to spread world-changing knowledge and transformation, whether benevolent or destructive, through the world, possibly through playing dream-muse to a brilliant scientist or magus capable of understanding what he's trying to say (the Eldritch Skies version of him). He's cruel because necessity is the mother of invention, not because he likes watching you squirm (he does, but only if you fight back against the trials he sends).

Shubby's nature is to preserve life and induce evolution, Yog-Sototh's is to...be. They aren't really sapient in the way humans or Mi-go think, they're the gestalt intelligences of nature. To be thralled by Nyrlathotep is to be thralled to the dual-natured concept of knowledge and chaos, and that isn't generally a master that choose you-you choose it.

The Chrysalis' problem is, above all else, that they seek easy answers that don't actually require them to think too hard. Or acknowledge the consequences.

Segev
2013-10-08, 05:15 PM
Yog-Sothoth has always been my favorite of the Eldritch Gods, conceptually. The least malign, it actually might even be interpreted as being...benevolent. Not "kind," of course, but it is the one whose very existence is not only not anathema to human survival, but actually is beneficial to us. The Key and the Gate is the guardian of borders of realms, the keeper of space and time as meaningful concepts. Non-Euclidean Yog-Sothoth may be, but it is Yog-Sothoth that makes Euclidean geometry possible.

Sure, seeing the horror will drive you mad, but unlike many of the others, you might find calling on its power and even presence helpful in preserving mankind as a whole. Just...do so very carefully. And only if necessary. It may just be the only one that doesn't require a Godzilla threshold to be crossed before it's not bone-headed stupid.

Deffers
2013-10-08, 05:35 PM
Well, if I remember my "Through The Gates of The Silver Key," Yog-Sothoth actually IS humanity, in a sense. All those who search for forbidden knowledge, all those who are inquisitive explorers, are actually facets of Yog-Sothoth's vast consciousness. That's what allowed Randolph Carter to transfer his consciousness into an alien sorcerer's body-- he WAS that alien sorcerer. The over-entity, Yog-Sothoth, thus grants Randolph the ability to fly into the alien sorcerer's body, because ol' Yog was proud of Carter's exploration.

Yog-Sothoth isn't just benevolent; he can actually be proud of humans. Given the whole thing that happened at Dunwich, er... I mean, for an alien consciousness transferred throughout all space and time that transcends consciousness, he's not all that freaky.

Mr Beer
2013-10-09, 01:53 AM
Love the epilogue, erasing VampireMarty from existence and destroying the very possibility of him existing and doing the whole thing in the most offensively (to him) anti-Marty ethos way possible.

The Glyphstone
2013-10-09, 03:58 PM
I suppose it's a good thing CC never read Keith Laumer. I can just picture his jowly neckbeards jiggling at the thought of adding Bolos to Marty's order of battle.

Arkhosia
2013-10-09, 04:37 PM
I suppose it's a good thing CC never read Keith Laumer. I can just picture his jowly neckbeards jiggling at the thought of adding Bolos to Marty's order of battle.

Could be worse. He could have did a SAO: "If you drop to zero hp, you die in the game and in real life". Or reverse Henderson: "All of a sudden, a yacht falls through the ceiling of the manor where you are investigating. Roll to avoid the debris, DC 30 vs Acrobatics with a -2 penalty for being shocked, -4 for being distracted..."

Icewraith
2013-10-09, 05:27 PM
That epilogue is absolutely beautiful. Having located the truly foundational flaws in your GM's thinking, you utterly destroyed his terrible campaign setting and negated his pet DMPC using nothing but logic, science, and fanwankery. Brilliant.

Edit: 10 minutes later, I'm still chuckling quietly to myself regarding epistemological collapse.

Trekkin
2013-10-09, 07:55 PM
Edit: 10 minutes later, I'm still chuckling quietly to myself regarding epistemological collapse.

I just have this image of downloading all the things onto a PCPU hard disk until it implodes into a glowing version of the Fact Sphere from Portal 2.

Which we then use to drive the pseudo-Arcadia.

See, anti-gravity is overrated. What you really need is anti-gravitas.

Sir_Mopalot
2013-10-09, 09:22 PM
With built-in anti-GRIMDARK shields!

Segev
2013-10-10, 08:03 AM
What you really need is anti-gravitas.

o/~ We need gravitas! / We need gravitas! / We need gravitas, prestige and arrogance~ o/~

("arrogance" mis-pronounced to have an "ah" in the last syllable; sung to the tune of Feliz Navidad)

The Fury
2013-10-10, 12:18 PM
Could be worse. He could have did a SAO: "If you drop to zero hp, you die in the game and in real life". Or reverse Henderson: "All of a sudden, a yacht falls through the ceiling of the manor where you are investigating. Roll to avoid the debris, DC 30 vs Acrobatics with a -2 penalty for being shocked, -4 for being distracted..."

Nice. But wouldn't a Reverse Henderson involve a yacht crashing up through the basement?

The Glyphstone
2013-10-10, 01:03 PM
Nice. But wouldn't a Reverse Henderson involve a yacht crashing up through the basement?

That would be an Inverse Henderson.

georgie_leech
2013-10-10, 01:07 PM
That would be an Inverse Henderson.

My new goal is to somehow create an Inverse Reverse Henderson by making crashing a yacht up through the basement both possible and tactically useful.

The Glyphstone
2013-10-10, 06:20 PM
My new goal is to somehow create an Inverse Reverse Henderson by making crashing a yacht up through the basement both possible and tactically useful.

No, an Inverse Reverse Henderson would be the GM causing a yacht to crash up through the basement beneath the players.



I like how 'Henderson' has become an all-purpose proper noun.

LordChaos13
2013-10-10, 08:12 PM
Does it count if the Yacht can fly?
An Airyacht flying up from the basement would be an Inverse Reverse Henderson then.

Deffers
2013-10-10, 08:44 PM
My ideas involved triggering a geyser in a subterranean lake and judicious application of drilltank up through a billionaire's underground garage. :smallcool:

One Step Two
2013-10-10, 09:02 PM
No, an Inverse Reverse Henderson would be the GM causing a yacht to crash up through the basement beneath the players.



I like how 'Henderson' has become an all-purpose proper noun.

Also, because the original Henderson, was to specifically antagonise a terribad GM, would the inverse Henderson in this case be to reward the players for acts of awesome? The yacht, for example, is crashing through the basement filled with alcohol, confetti and fireworks for all to enjoy?

ReaderAt2046
2013-10-10, 09:11 PM
See, anti-gravity is overrated. What you really need is anti-gravitas.

As Chesterton said, "Angels can fly because they can take themselves lightly."

The Glyphstone
2013-10-10, 11:10 PM
Also, because the original Henderson, was to specifically antagonise a terribad GM, would the inverse Henderson in this case be to reward the players for acts of awesome? The yacht, for example, is crashing through the basement filled with alcohol, confetti and fireworks for all to enjoy?

Possibly, but it could also be a GM punishing terribad players. A yacht flying up out of the basement to reward awesome players might be an Inverse Reverse Anti-Henderson.



Does it count if the Yacht can fly?
An Airyacht flying up from the basement would be an Inverse Reverse Henderson then.

The Flying Hendersons...sounds like an acrobat troupe.

The Fury
2013-10-10, 11:46 PM
Also, because the original Henderson, was to specifically antagonise a terribad GM, would the inverse Henderson in this case be to reward the players for acts of awesome? The yacht, for example, is crashing through the basement filled with alcohol, confetti and fireworks for all to enjoy?


Possibly, but it could also be a GM punishing terribad players. A yacht flying up out of the basement to reward awesome players might be an Inverse Reverse Anti-Henderson.


Whatever it's ultimately called, someone please do this!

One Step Two
2013-10-11, 12:04 AM
Whatever it's ultimately called, someone please do this!

I forgot to add: And a small army of Garden Gnomes.

The Fury
2013-10-11, 12:26 AM
Gnome party? Gnome party.

georgie_leech
2013-10-11, 01:28 AM
So I stumbled upon this gem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134276) again recently, and it occurred to me that if you ever have the misfortune of playing a game of 3.5 with CC, you could use this monstrosity to put his Katana-wielding-wannabe's to same.

Fable Wright
2013-10-11, 07:17 AM
Possibly, but it could also be a GM punishing terribad players. A yacht flying up out of the basement to reward awesome players might be an Inverse Reverse Anti-Henderson.


I thought an Anti-Henderson was a player who would repeatedly get -1 full Hendersons on the Henderson scale of Plot Derailment (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_Henderson_Scale_of_Plot_Derailment). I thought a GM rewarding players with a Henderson was a counter-Henderson. A Reverse Henderson is a GM punishing terribad players with a Henderson. A GM rewarding players with Henderson acts is an Inverse Reverse Counter-Henderson.

Malrone
2013-10-11, 07:34 AM
My mind can't appeal to semantics of this magnitude!

Balmas
2013-10-11, 07:38 AM
So I stumbled upon this gem (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134276) again recently, and it occurred to me that if you ever have the misfortune of playing a game of 3.5 with CC, you could use this monstrosity to put his Katana-wielding-wannabe's to same.

See, this only works if CC Isn't the DM. Otherwise, you're doomed to remain perpetually at level two, since his uber-NPC came in and slaughtered the overengineered uber-kobolds, and he's always thought it was unfair that high-level characters don't get a share of XP. Roll a d20 to see if you get xp today.

EDIT: You know, I love autocorrect. Especially when I'm too tired/lazy to actually fix my darn post.

Mx.Silver
2013-10-11, 10:14 AM
See, this only works if CC Isn't the DM. Otherwise, you're doomed to remain perpetually at level two, since his uber-NPC came in and slaughtered the overengineered uber-mobiles, and he's always thought it was unfair that high-level characters don't get a share of DO. Roll a d20 to see if you get so today.

And even if that weren't the case, Marty (the character) is the True Master of all katans anyway, so all the katanas you threw at him would immediately return to his rightful possession without harming him.

georgie_leech
2013-10-11, 01:42 PM
The misfortune of playing a regular high level game of 3.5 I mean. Obviously without him having control over your character.

Trekkin
2013-10-15, 09:39 PM
New post (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/10/on-stranger-aeons-some-thoughts-on.html). Sort of a Ctech review.

It's the best I could do in the time I've had.

Enjoy.

ReaderAt2046
2013-10-15, 09:57 PM
New post (http://irolledazero.blogspot.com/2013/10/on-stranger-aeons-some-thoughts-on.html). Sort of a Ctech review.

It's the best I could do in the time I've had.

Enjoy.

I'm curious, Trekkin: Have you seen Pacific Rim? Because it seems to me that that movie does the central premise of Ctech (giant monstrous abominations arise, and humanity fights them and wins--by using giant robots!) superlatively well, and I'd be curious as to how you think PR compares to Ctech in terms of worldbuilding.

Trekkin
2013-10-15, 10:07 PM
I'm curious, Trekkin: Have you seen Pacific Rim? Because it seems to me that that movie does the central premise of Ctech (giant monstrous abominations arise, and humanity fights them and wins--by using giant robots!) superlatively well, and I'd be curious as to how you think PR compares to Ctech in terms of worldbuilding.

I haven't, but I've heard about it.

If you want my opinion...the BESM mecha 1shot I mentioned would work well in Pacific Rim. I would have more of a problem if it tried to be serious, though.

VeliciaL
2013-10-15, 10:23 PM
You know, the more I hear about it, the more it strikes me that CTech is pretty much a (terrible) alien invasion setting with Cthulhu stickered on for name recognition.

Balmas
2013-10-15, 10:30 PM
Ia, Ia, Cthulhu face'palgm.

This is the single greatest thing I have ever read.

georgie_leech
2013-10-15, 10:44 PM
You know, the more I hear about it, the more it strikes me that CTech is pretty much a (terrible) alien invasion setting with Cthulhu stickered on for name recognition.

More or less, yeah.

Actually, looking at it like that, that's an interesting idea. Mankind is on the brink of annihilation as a far more advanced alien species is taking over the Solar System for [reasons], and Humanity taps into the power of Cthulhu et al. to have a fighting chance. In a dramatic turn of events, magical powers are brought to bear where technology failed, and final devastation of Earth is prevented. Indeed, a combined push of magic and science allows humanity to hold off the invasion force for the last 20 years. There's an uneasy stalemate between humanity and the aliens, as it's clear that a full frontal assault with the aliens' current forces would be suicide, and humanity lacks the technology to bring the fight to them. Small scale raids and skirmishes tend to be common though, as the aliens attempt to learn how humanity remains a credible threat. Of course, as any fan of eldritch abominations knows, using their power brings them closer to stepping through. Though initially hailed as a miracle, it's now become clear that things are going wrong, as strange creatures are sometimes seen in the dark, and people go missing at alarming rates. At the same time, intercepted transmissions have been partially decoded/translated, and it's known that the aliens have sent out a call for reinforcements. When they'll arrive is unknown, but another great invasion is coming.

Bam. An instant three-way conflict where the very force that gives humanity a fighting chance is the force that may doom us all.

EDIT:
This is the single greatest thing I have ever read.

Agreed, that made me burst out laughing. Got some funny looks from the other coffee drinkers.

captpike
2013-10-15, 10:47 PM
More or less, yeah.

Actually, looking at it like that, that's an interesting idea. Mankind is on the brink of annihilation as a far more advanced alien species is taking over the Solar System for [reasons], and Humanity taps into the power of Cthulhu et al. to have a fighting chance. In a dramatic turn of events, magical powers are brought to bear where technology failed, and final devastation of Earth is prevented. Indeed, a combined push of magic and science allows humanity to hold off the invasion force for the last 20 years. There's an uneasy stalemate between humanity and the aliens, as it's clear that a full frontal assault with the aliens' current forces would be suicide, and humanity lacks the technology to bring the fight to them. Small scale raids and skirmishes tend to be common though, as the aliens attempt to learn how humanity remains a credible threat. Of course, as any fan of eldritch abominations knows, using their power brings them closer to stepping through. Though initially hailed as a miracle, it's now become clear that things are going wrong, as strange creatures are sometimes seen in the dark, as people go missing at alarming rates. At the same time, intercepted transmissions have been partially decoded/translated, and it's known that the aliens have sent out a call for reinforcements. When they'll arrive is unknown, but another great invasion is coming.

Bam. An instant three-way conflict where the very force that gives humanity a fighting chance is the force that may doom us all.

EDIT:

Agreed, that made me burst out laughing. Got some funny looks from the other coffee drinkers.

this I would play, lots of cool plot hooks interesting choices, and tons of cool toys to pay with

Deffers
2013-10-15, 10:47 PM
That was a good read, and it helped to verbalize a lot of what's wrong with Cthulhutech.

And Pacific Rim is... silly, yeah, but it tries to kind of at least have building-sized robots that move like building-sized things. Kind of.

I think you'd like it, Trekkin. Guillermo del Toro tried to remove emphasis on military stuff and focused more on a group of people selected specifically for their skills- specifically, their ability to pilot a giant robot together with another individual. And outside of these giant robots, the kaiju are really spooky. What you talked about with bureaucracy and petty politics hampering the protagonists happens pretty early on, and the day is saved in the end through the heroes cooperating and taking huge risks in the face of a seemingly-unstoppable apocalypse.

IMO, it strikes that balance between fear and determination, setting-wise, that Cthulhutech says it strives for-- but I don't even see evidence of it doing that.

Sir_Mopalot
2013-10-16, 01:13 AM
More or less, yeah.

Actually, looking at it like that, that's an interesting idea. Mankind is on the brink of annihilation as a far more advanced alien species is taking over the Solar System for [reasons], and Humanity taps into the power of Cthulhu et al. to have a fighting chance. In a dramatic turn of events, magical powers are brought to bear where technology failed, and final devastation of Earth is prevented. Indeed, a combined push of magic and science allows humanity to hold off the invasion force for the last 20 years. There's an uneasy stalemate between humanity and the aliens, as it's clear that a full frontal assault with the aliens' current forces would be suicide, and humanity lacks the technology to bring the fight to them. Small scale raids and skirmishes tend to be common though, as the aliens attempt to learn how humanity remains a credible threat. Of course, as any fan of eldritch abominations knows, using their power brings them closer to stepping through. Though initially hailed as a miracle, it's now become clear that things are going wrong, as strange creatures are sometimes seen in the dark, and people go missing at alarming rates. At the same time, intercepted transmissions have been partially decoded/translated, and it's known that the aliens have sent out a call for reinforcements. When they'll arrive is unknown, but another great invasion is coming.

Just more evidence that there are hundreds of ways to approach the idea of Lovecraft + Mecha that are interesting and fun, yet CTech deftly navigates away from all of them.

georgie_leech
2013-10-16, 01:21 AM
Just more evidence that there are hundreds of ways to approach the idea of Lovecraft + Mecha that are interesting and fun, yet CTech deftly navigates away from all of them.

Considering that took more time to type up than imagine (I imagine putting proper effort into it would get something good, but I'm lazy and have too many other campaign ideas), yeah, it's pretty incredible that Ctech thinks the most interesting way to deal with the Cthulhu Mythos is More Dakka.

Cristo Meyers
2013-10-16, 07:49 AM
Well, that certainly gave me a better picture of everything wrong with CTech on a mechanical level. The other reviews I'd read just made it seem like a bad episode of Criminal Minds, just with pseudo-eldritch horrors.


So there's two games we can make here. One's Saint's Row of Cthulhu; put the players in the Good Guy military and have them kick the crap out of the Bad Guys, who we know are bad because they are ugly and weird. Make it goofy, make it funny, knock yourself out. That's a completely valid game; heck, I'd run a BESM 1-shot in it, giant sharks and arbitrary misfortune and all.


Oh dear sweet god in heaven yes!

Professor Genki vs. Cthulhu at Murderbrawl 37! :smallbiggrin:

Segev
2013-10-16, 08:58 AM
I tried to post this in reply to the blog post, but it was too long. So here it is here, as it's my reaction to the criticisms of CTech. Honestly, I haven't seen any of the rape, racism, etc. that people have claimed is there, and my experience with it was not nearly so restrictively unpleasant as advertised here. Now, it could have been the GM and the fact that I was just a player who only read the parts of the core and magic book that I needed to build my character.

I...think you're giving FATAL -way- too much credit, here, or are letting CC's run of CTech color your views on it even in your separate analysis.

Admittedly, my exposure to it has been limited to one game in which I was a player. I read only parts of the book. I didn't see the rape, racism, etc. that I've seen people claim exists, but maybe I didn't read the right parts.

So, I would like to relate my one experience with it, and see how it jives with your read on the setting and game as a whole. We had a couple normal humans, one psychic who wanted to be an actor, a tager, and my PC: Nicholas P Smythe.

Nick was an old man and a known sorcerer. He was also a go-to expert for the government and others when it came to the occult. His private library full of rather illegal tomes was. His security clearance and his usefulness as an expert, combined with his long history of almost frightening sanity, meant that it was not worth it to try to take it from him.

He was not a mean old man, but he was not particuarly kind, either. He had the trait that made him tainted by the otherworldly (and gave him more magic points in the process), because when he and his wife were much younger and were working on the earliest experiments in magical science, they were participating in a test to summon and bind something. That -something- (from his perspective) possessed his wife and slew the child with whom she was pregnant. She fooled everybody, though, and he had to divorce her because he couldn't get anybody to believe she was possessed. They wrote it off as grief and blame because the clever -thing- in her made the same claim about him.

He SEEMED frighteningly sane. In truth, his madness was managed by an iron will and twisted into a grim focus on trying to find where his wife's soul had gone.

(The "twist" here is that neither was truly taken over by the "thing," but both believed they were haunted by the spirit of their stillborn son and that the OTHER was possessed. Their "stillborn son" was actually the "thing, whispering in their heads for decades and twisting them into a dramatic rivalry as they build their own political - in the "connections" rather than "elections" sense - empires and navigated the lower eschelons of high-powered society as indispensible experts, dancing around each other to thwart the doubtless-nefarious goals the evil thing pretending to be the other must have.)

As the game progressed, Nicholas was crotchety and easily tired on the physical missions, but was dangerous to any supernatural threats that got close enough to harm him. He relied on the more human members of the party (not to mention the tager) to defend him from more mundane threats. We had a fair bit of intra-party strife, but it was due to PC personalities and, I think, not at all to do with the "enforced role-play" quirks. The tager was definitely his own character, not a cutout of a stereotype. At no point did the GM tell us how to play our characters (though he would warn us when we were being too obvious and would likely get the government on us).

We had numerous successes, some failures, and managed to stop a cult from summoning one of the Great Old Ones (and, in the process, as it was the climax of the campaign, Nick and his wife had some really wonky supernatural stuff occur that resulted in them realizing the true nature of their "possession" AND, due to other-worldly shenanigans and physical death while inhabiting a dreamscape, regain their relative youth; ultimately, a HAPPY ending for them. Though how happy the NEG might be about two iron-willed sorcerers taking advantage of their apparent deaths to build new, unobserved lives with at least 50 more years ahead of them is an interesting question...)

Anyway, I believe the other PCs had similarly satisfying resolutions to personal arcs, and while the world is still at war, and we faced some party-scale as well as personal existential horror, it was overall a fun game with definite success on the scale of the immediate storyline.

LordChaos13
2013-10-16, 09:34 AM
He was not a mean old man, but he was not particuarly kind, either. He had the trait that made him tainted by the otherworldly (and gave him more magic points in the process)

Sounds like a good GM.
Though you probably blocked it out the trait your talking about is a Flaw* and one of the stated examples for the flaw is literally hentai Richard. Seriously go reread it
*And the only way to increase Orgone meaning every Sorc takes it

"Those with an Outsider Taint also manifest some sort of physical trait that reveals their origin – they may have unnatural eyes, nictitating membranes, extra digits, unnatural cravings, vestigial claws, hentai genitalia, or the like."


Also: Hobby lists Coed naked twister as an example alongside model building and drinking

Also: Compulsive Behavior (1-3)
Your Character has some sort of behavior in which he engages compulsively – usually to fill some sort of psychological void or to quell deep anxiety or depression. This behavior can be anything from compulsively checking the outlets of his house before leaving to washing his hands to masturbation

Which at first level is 3-5 times a day. Yeah

Malrone
2013-10-16, 09:54 AM
I'd expect you had a positive experience because Rule Zero was applied liberally to the stock setting. So, good show, and props to the person in charge at being a capable GM. Unfortunately, this doesn't reflect back positively to CTech itself, since the editing was required in the first place.

Really glad you had a good time. It's a nice thing to hear on a forum where so much complaining can happen wholesale.

EDIT

hentai genitalia

Hahawhat

BRC
2013-10-16, 10:21 AM
I bought, and ran a brief "Lets find out the rules" game of Ctech. I was drawn to the absurdity of the central concept, but we had more fun making our characters and doing backstory stuff than we did actually playing.


Mechanically speaking the biggest draw of the setting, the Giant Robots, really only works if every one of your players is a pilot, and in that case you are largely limited to adventures about piloting Giant Robots, which can be fun but may get old fast. Plus there isn't much of a variety of Mechs to use within the same power level. In our small-game we had a fast-attack close-range Mech, a long-range rocket mech, and an Engel who, as it turned out, had just as many rocket pods as the rocket mech, and could deal just as much damage in melee as the close-range mech. There are no real guidelines for making sure everybody is contributing equally in mech combat unless you make everybody use the same mech type.


Personally my biggest dissapointment was how seriously the game seemed to take itself. I was attracted to the setting by the absurdity, "Unthinkable Eldritch Horrors from beyond space are here to destroy us, so we built giant robots to fight them off". But the game seems kind of ashamed of that, and retreats into GRIMDARKness. I wanted basically Saints Row of Cthulu, unspeakable eldritch horrors arrive, and we blow them into unspeakable bits.

I wanted to punch the face of madness itself with a giant robot fist.


Also, I actually LIKED the concept of the Nazzadi as a sort of tounge-in-cheek take on the "Proud Warrior Race". They look Human because they ARE humans, just gene-tweaked by spacewasps. Their whole "Proud Warrior Race" backstory was invented in-universe to make them better soldiers. In a more lighthearted take on Ctech they could be really fun.

That said, mechanically there was no reason to play them except for low-light vision. They got a +2 dexterity, which dosn't count for much when Humans got to apply +2 to any stat, including dexterity.

So if you were already planning to spend your +2 on dexterity, go ahead and pick Nazzadi.


Really, "Saints Row of Cthullu" sounds a lot like what I wanted. A joyous subversion of the standard Eldritch Horror "You are inconsequential in the face of the universe". We may be inconsequential, but our giant robots powered by magical geometry are consequential enough to put a boot up your ass.
You can have your Giant Robots, or your Grimdark, but not Both. W40k only pulls it off because...well they barely pull it off.

So yeah, two ways to do Ctech properly.

Way 1: Saints Row Of Cthulu. Powered-armored soldiers cheerfully dismantling deep ones, giant robots punching out eldritch horrors. The universe is a big scary place but we're pretty big and scary ourselves. Plus we're just crazy enough to hold our own.

Way 2: Cyberpunk of Cthulu. Call of Cthulu + Sci-fi. No Giant Robots, no big war against the edlritch evils. The existance of the evils can be common knowledge, but it should be a creeping evil. the Coast Guard is equipped to battle deep ones coming out of the ocean, Police reguarly raid Cults while under the effects of amnesiacs that prevent them from remembering what they saw, ect. The World is slowly sliding into chaos due to a thousand different things. The PC's CAN wiin when it comes to solving these local issues. Maybe you can't save the world, but you CAN save the day.

Eldan
2013-10-16, 10:24 AM
To be fair, Evangelion pulls off Dark+Lovecraft+Giant Robots pretty successfully for most of its run. And it was very clearly one of the main inspirations, down to the name "Engel".

BRC
2013-10-16, 10:31 AM
To be fair, Evangelion pulls off Dark+Lovecraft+Giant Robots pretty successfully for most of its run. And it was very clearly one of the main inspirations, down to the name "Engel".

Yeah but there is a big difference between "Fun to watch" and "Fun to play".

"Fun to Play' with Giant Robots means power tripping. "Fun to Play" giant robots should be somewhere between Pacific Rim and Guerren Laggan. Giant Robots are already ridiculous, the only thing to do is EMBRACE that.

Either leave it out, or dive in wearing a clown nose and a funny hat.

Segev
2013-10-16, 10:35 AM
Sounds like a good GM.Certainly a factor.

Though you probably blocked it out the trait your talking about is a Flaw* and one of the stated examples for the flaw is literally hentai Richard. Seriously go reread it
*And the only way to increase Orgone meaning every Sorc takes it

"Those with an Outsider Taint also manifest some sort of physical trait that reveals their origin – they may have unnatural eyes, nictitating membranes, extra digits, unnatural cravings, vestigial claws, hentai genitalia, or the like."I couldn't recall if it was a flaw or a merit, at this stage. Thanks for the reminder. I had an interesting physical manifestation, but I can't recall what it was, now. :( I think it manifested most obviously as a "heart condition." Complete with cancerous-looking growths over the left pectoral area of the chest. He had a very low physical endurance stat ("Body," I think it was? It's been a couple years since I played the system.)





Also: Hobby lists Coed naked twister as an example alongside model building and drinking

Also: Compulsive Behavior (1-3)
Your Character has some sort of behavior in which he engages compulsively – usually to fill some sort of psychological void or to quell deep anxiety or depression. This behavior can be anything from compulsively checking the outlets of his house before leaving to washing his hands to masturbation

Which at first level is 3-5 times a day. YeahNow that you mention it, I do recall those. I thought of them as attempts at being light-hearted in a slightly juvenile sort of way. They fall into the "rather inane example meant to evoke 'and the kitchen sink,'" and seem to me to be more of an effort to express just how broad one can go for these things.

But I've cultivated a rather thick skin, because otherwise I'd get my sensibilities offended too easily to play games at all, so I could be being too lenient in my take.

Friv
2013-10-16, 10:48 AM
Now that you mention it, I do recall those. I thought of them as attempts at being light-hearted in a slightly juvenile sort of way. They fall into the "rather inane example meant to evoke 'and the kitchen sink,'" and seem to me to be more of an effort to express just how broad one can go for these things.

But I've cultivated a rather thick skin, because otherwise I'd get my sensibilities offended too easily to play games at all, so I could be being too lenient in my take.

From what I recall, the Cthulutech corebook is merely "bad"; it's hardly one of the worst offenders out there for sexism, racism, and terrible life choices. It's worse than a book should be, but if it was just that it would have been lost in the mire.

It was later sourcebooks where the direction the designers were thinking was revealed, and that direction was REALLY, REALLY bad. Spoiled for squick.

Like the published adventure where one player was just tortured in-character for four sessions while everyone else stumbled around failing to find them. Or the ever-popular story that had a nearly-guaranteed chance of guaranteed rape-and-then-murder-through-pregnancy for anyone foolish enough to play a female PC. Or the nazi rape-powered engine.

Deophaun
2013-10-16, 10:57 AM
To be fair, Evangelion...
Needs to be shot out of a cannon and into the sun.

I'm sorry, you were saying? :smallbiggrin:

Segev
2013-10-16, 11:00 AM
Needs to be shot out of a cannon and into the sun.

I'm sorry, you were saying? :smallbiggrin:

Pish-posh. Shinji would wimp out before getting to the cannon, and Gendo has already orchestrated you into launching yourself in Evangelion's place.

Deophaun
2013-10-16, 11:04 AM
...and Gendo has already orchestrated you into launching yourself in Evangelion's place.
He can't. NERV wasted all their budget on a robot fight, and so he's stuck in an elevator.

LordChaos13
2013-10-16, 11:08 AM
From what I recall, the Cthulutech corebook is merely "bad"; it's hardly one of the worst offenders out there for sexism, racism, and terrible life choices. It's worse than a book should be, but if it was just that it would have been lost in the mire.

It was later sourcebooks where the direction the designers were thinking was revealed, and that direction was REALLY, REALLY bad. Like the published adventure where one player was just tortured in-character for four sessions while everyone else stumbled around failing to find them. Or the ever-popular story that had a nearly-guaranteed chance of guaranteed rape-and-then-murder-through-pregnancy for anyone foolish enough to play a female PC. Or the nazi rape-powered engine.

To be fair the rape/preg/murder involved male PCs being raped too, they just impregnated rather than were impregnated
Also its more date-rape than actual-rape as its due to pheremone-mindcontrol
There is also a rape-to-death torture device for females only

Trekkin
2013-10-16, 11:15 AM
And this is part of why I didn't want to mention all the really offensive stuff in Cthulhutech.

Sith_Happens
2013-10-16, 11:42 AM
That said, mechanically there was no reason to play them except for low-light vision. They got a +2 dexterity, which dosn't count for much when Humans got to apply +2 to any stat, including dexterity.

So if you were already planning to spend your +2 on dexterity, go ahead and pick Nazzadi.

IIRC from another review, you can literally just take two points out of your base Dexterity score and put them into whatever stat you would have chosen for your Human bonus, making the distinction between "+2 DEX" and "+2 any" completely meaningless.

CTech designers, everyone!

jindra34
2013-10-16, 12:03 PM
I think some of what happened (some) with later CTech books/adventures was the designers realizing they hadn't really built a horror setting, and trying to (very sloppiply, poorly and heavy handedly) incorporate horror into it. Without any real clue as to how to go about actual horror. But yes its mostly something that should be used for bits and bobs with the rest just tossed in the trash.

The Fury
2013-10-16, 12:09 PM
Yes, you can't win in Call of Cthulhu -- but what the players do matters. Contrast to Cthulhutech's adventure design, where anything that matters is outside the scope of the adventure.

Y'know, I think this is why I made up my mind about not liking C-tech before I learned about the really dumb stuff about it. Of course, I've never said it quite so concisely. This is also what I love about Call of Cthulhu, you can stop some horrible cosmic threat for now but it'll be back! That's scary! C-tech you can blow up the Shoggoth but it don't matter 'cuz reasons.

Friv
2013-10-16, 12:31 PM
To be fair the rape/preg/murder involved male PCs being raped too, they just impregnated rather than were impregnated
Also its more date-rape than actual-rape as its due to pheremone-mindcontrol
There is also a rape-to-death torture device for females only

Well, the issue is as follows...

Actually, wait, I'm going to use spoiler tags because this is getting a little brutal and it's not fair to people who came into the thread expecting hilarious antics from Trekkin's terrible DM. I think I'm going to go back and edit them into my earlier post, as well. Could you do the same?

Ok. The issue is...

If you play a male character, you get forced into sex (which is VERY BAD of the designers), and then if you check up on it later you find out you have creepy horse-babies or something.

If you play a female character, you get forced into sex, which has a 100% chance of resulting in pregnancy, which has a 100% chance of killing you with no abortion possible. So just choosing to play a woman in that scenario is a death sentence, a really squicky death sentence to boot, and the designers did not see this as an issue AT ALL.

Arbane
2013-10-16, 12:40 PM
Or the nazi rape-powered engine.[/spoiler]

O_O

CTech is stealing plot elements from Urotsokidoji? (DO NOT GOOGLE THIS AT WORK.)

So... yeah. Bad game. But it does do an amazing job of letting the readers know what SAN loss due to unspeakable horrors feels like.

Lord Torath
2013-10-16, 12:53 PM
I'm sorry, but I couldn't let this pass without at least commenting:
Also its more date-rape than actual-rapeThis made me cringe. The only difference is that in one, you know your attacker. In the other, you most likely know your attacker. They are both"actual rape". :smallannoyed:
[/rant]

That being said, this is probably not the best place to discuss it.

LordChaos13
2013-10-16, 01:11 PM
I'm not saying that date-tape isnt as bad as rape (it totally is), but they ARE different
In one you are generally in the position to state no or struggle
In the other you are drugged to the point where consent is unable to be freely given due to an altered state of mind

In the scenario in question Half-animal (well more anthro animals) of nature/lust emit pheromones designed to make a member of the opposite gender (I think regardless of sexual preference) attracted to them to the point of making saves or sleep with them
The PCs are expected to interact and talk with these creatures for an extended period, forcing at least 5 saves and Im fairly sure but dont have the book on-hand nor the effort to actually look it up, but the DM is told one or more should definitely succumb (bonus points if it's a fem character)

btw, the plot they are trying to stop? Summoning an Elder Entity of some kind using the creatures and their kids
Which is not stopped
And this scenario is only achieved by playing through another one where PCs are expected to (without prompting though some mayWILL be necessary) sit and watch outside an abandoned warehouse where girls between the ages of 14 and 22 are in crates, still alive, and Im not going into further detail because I feel sick
Also the main villain from the scene lives and escapes because METAPLOT and the kidnapping ring still exists

BRC
2013-10-16, 01:18 PM
I think some of what happened (some) with later CTech books/adventures was the designers realizing they hadn't really built a horror setting, and trying to (very sloppiply, poorly and heavy handedly) incorporate horror into it. Without any real clue as to how to go about actual horror. But yes its mostly something that should be used for bits and bobs with the rest just tossed in the trash.

That would make a lot of sense.

See, I never really saw it as a Horror setting. I saw it doing to Cosmic Horror what Buffy did to Vampires. The monsters are still there, but the would-be victims can fight back and win on equal terms, rather than getting lucky or using some built-in plot weakness.

And if that was the design Ctech is great. Take the ultimate Horror (Lovecraftian Cosmit Horror), and mix in enough Anime-inspired power so that humans can fight back.

But if they were trying to make an actual HORROR game, they failed.

Maybe the writers of the expansions mixed up "Horrifying" "Horrible" and "Horrific".

Deffers
2013-10-16, 01:28 PM
Yeah, CTech's adventure modules are horrible. The one where one of the PC's is brutally tortured and is powerless to stop a small child from being similarly tortured also pretty much ends with a Scion ringing you up and telling you to cheer up-- and your reward is the ability to point buy an ability that lets you point buy psychic powers! Yaaaaay. SO worth unavoidable torture.:smallannoyed:

ReaderAt2046
2013-10-16, 04:11 PM
I just found a Pacific Rim quote that I think really accurately shows why PR is sort of the anti-Lovecraft. From what I've read, a lot of the horror of CoC comes from the sheer impersonal overwhelmingness of the main abominations. They're not so much monsters as forces of nature. But, as Raleigh Becket says:
There are things you can't fight - acts of God. You see a hurricane coming, you get out of the way. But when you're in a Jaeger, you can finally fight the hurricane. You can win!

Delta
2013-10-16, 05:10 PM
I fully agree that the adventures for CTech are very, very bad in every sense of the word and would never argue to defend them.

But still, I think you went WAY over the top with your FATAL comparison. CTech is still a workable, if very flawed, gaming system, and the setting isn't quite as bad as you want to make it sound, I have played it (only a one-shot, but still) and had a lot of fun, and I'm sure you could run a campaign in the setting having a lot of fun without having to edit everything quite as massively as some of you might make it sound. Yes, the Nazzadi are silly fanservice, but that doesn't make every game of CTech bad or unplayable, and neither do the rapey parts of the game because not every adventure needs to focus on every aspect of the setting, thankfully.

Unfortunately, after the core book, things seem to have taken a turn for the worse and the very douchy attitude the designers have shown doesn't help it one bit. And of course, it doesn't help that Eclipse Phase does indeed do all things regarding transhumanist cthulhoid horror better and is all in all a vastly superiour game.

So it comes down to this, in my experience, CTech is far, far from the cream of the crop, but it's also far from as bad as you make it look (FATAL, seriously?)

The Grue
2013-10-16, 05:19 PM
Way 2: Cyberpunk of Cthulu. Call of Cthulu + Sci-fi. No Giant Robots, no big war against the edlritch evils. The existance of the evils can be common knowledge, but it should be a creeping evil. the Coast Guard is equipped to battle deep ones coming out of the ocean, Police reguarly raid Cults while under the effects of amnesiacs that prevent them from remembering what they saw, ect. The World is slowly sliding into chaos due to a thousand different things. The PC's CAN wiin when it comes to solving these local issues. Maybe you can't save the world, but you CAN save the day.

So basically a game of Eclipse Phase set during the Fall?

llehctim
2013-10-17, 02:44 PM
Having watched pacific rim, that was what I was hoping we would be able to do (albeit on a smaller scale in the CT game). Sadly it wasn't. Another comparison for how CT could have been made more horrifying, with very little change, is to have it more like the anime Attack on Titan in which (spoilers ahead)

Humans are fighting against an unknown enemy and are outmatched, but can accomplish things, but always at a cost, and they have secret weapons that turn the humans into monsters to fight them.

The favorable comparison to FATAL is I assume a hyperbole, and is seen as not as bad as it is, due to the fact that noone claims it is a good game (author excluded), and so it is only played as a parody. Whereas CT takes itself seriously, and seems like more of a betrayal, since having been promised an awesome thing, and fails to let us have them in the most annoying ways.

PS: Jin had mentioned that CT was a terrible choice and was only going to play if we all really wanted to, I thought that just the mechanics were bad in the system and that with the new set of mechanics it would be fine ... ah well hindsight is 20/20 (ish) and all that.

Trekkin
2013-10-17, 09:19 PM
Maybe I'm giving the other too much credit, but in Ctech I see a game that tried to be something awful, missed, then "compensated" by blithely being something even more disgusting, all without ever being the game it's advertised as being. Somehow that's worse to me than trying to be the most horrifying game ever devised and being bang on the mark with it.

Besides, the sheer variety of nausea-inducing stuff here just stuns me. We've got police states, indefinite detention without trial, torture, every kind of human indecency I can recall, great and small... It's like if the sum of my worst nightmares were in the Mandelbrot set and someone wrote down the resulting fractal. And none of it's necessary, at all, for telling the story it purports to want to tell. Maybe that's it; it might be the worse for how irrelevant it is, like all this horrifying stuff was just the closest shortcut for making it "edgy" and no one saw anything wrong with that.

I don't know. I'm probably wrong. I don't really want to think about it more.

One Step Two
2013-10-17, 09:52 PM
To me, FATAL is one of those unsinkables of generally horrendous ideas. It's not like a general kind of Fantasy Heartbreaker where it has one amazing core idea, and falls apart, or just being laughably unworkable. It's so reprehensible, that it goes so far off the spectrum of sanity that it parodys' itself, and then comes back full circle to be terrible again.

From what I have read of it, Ctech was just so casual about it, an attempt to make a shining Utopia with a seemy underside, but it forgot to make sure that the squickyness was only hinted at, and played at the edges to make it actually scary, instead it's just dropped off in the middle of a description, or tagged onto the end of a text block, thinking that direct confronting would make it either more horrifying, or dismissed as the norm, and that everyone should be okay.

In the context of their own works/source material, FATAL is an act of woeful ignorance of what gamers actually want, Ctech is naivety of a horror show.

Fable Wright
2013-10-17, 09:53 PM
Maybe I'm giving the other too much credit, but in Ctech I see a game that tried to be something awful, missed, then "compensated" by blithely being something even more disgusting, all without ever being the game it's advertised as being. Somehow that's worse to me than trying to be the most horrifying game ever devised and being bang on the mark with it.

You're giving FATAL too much credit. The writer didn't try to make the game horrifying. See his defense of the game here (http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/FATALReviewRebuttal).

The Grue
2013-10-17, 10:16 PM
Maybe I'm giving the other too much credit, but in Ctech I see a game that tried to be something awful, missed, then "compensated" by blithely being something even more disgusting, all without ever being the game it's advertised as being. Somehow that's worse to me than trying to be the most horrifying game ever devised and being bang on the mark with it.

Besides, the sheer variety of nausea-inducing stuff here just stuns me. We've got police states, indefinite detention without trial, torture, every kind of human indecency I can recall, great and small... It's like if the sum of my worst nightmares were in the Mandelbrot set and someone wrote down the resulting fractal. And none of it's necessary, at all, for telling the story it purports to want to tell. Maybe that's it; it might be the worse for how irrelevant it is, like all this horrifying stuff was just the closest shortcut for making it "edgy" and no one saw anything wrong with that.

I don't know. I'm probably wrong. I don't really want to think about it more.

And here I'd been assuming most of the invisible walls and monolothic police state bull**** had been Marty making adjustments to the setting. No wonder he proposed it; the designers were apparently on the same wavelength he was.

Trekkin
2013-10-17, 10:35 PM
You're giving FATAL too much credit. The writer didn't try to make the game horrifying. See his defense of the game here (http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/FATALReviewRebuttal).

...:smalleek:

Fair enough.

I don't think I can compare them now. They're outside my ability...

TuggyNE
2013-10-17, 11:04 PM
To me, FATAL is one of those unsinkables of generally horrendous ideas. It's not like a general kind of Fantasy Heartbreaker where it has one amazing core idea, and falls apart, or just being laughably unworkable. It's so reprehensible, that it goes so far off the spectrum of sanity that it parodys' itself, and then comes back full circle to be terrible again.

So, it crosses the line not once, nor twice, but thrice? Seems about right.

georgie_leech
2013-10-17, 11:07 PM
So, it crosses the line not once, nor twice, but thrice? Seems about right.

I prefer to think of it as sped over the line with a race car, stopped, got out, jumped up and down on the line, dug it up with a shovel, blew it up with 3 sticks of dynamite, reversed over the line in a convenient tank, only to drive over it again with a slightly faster car.

One Step Two
2013-10-17, 11:17 PM
I prefer to think of it as sped over the line with a race car, stopped, got out, jumped up and down on the line, dug it up with a shovel, blew it up with 3 sticks of dynamite, reversed over the line in a convenient tank, only to drive over it again with a slightly faster car.

All while holding their [redacted] as they did it.

The Glyphstone
2013-10-18, 01:20 AM
All while holding their [redacted] as they did it.

No, they were steering with their [redacted]. Their [censored] was [blanked] in their [blanked].

Arkhosia
2013-10-18, 05:58 AM
I prefer to think of it as sped over the line with a race car, stopped, got out, jumped up and down on the line, dug it up with a shovel, blew it up with 3 sticks of dynamite, reversed over the line in a convenient tank, only to drive over it again with a slightly faster car.
No...
They nuked the line, dropped a stack of tanks on it, fed it to Cthulu, nuked it from orbit again, railgunned it, dropped it into the depths of Tartarus, and nuked that from orbit repeatedly

Deffers
2013-10-18, 09:25 AM
...:smalleek:

Fair enough.

I don't think I can compare them now. They're outside my ability...


See, the thing with FATAL is gives you an idea about what an eldritch abomination would be like. Sure, it's horrifying beyond compare, but you think you grasp it. Then you break through another layer of knowledge, and the floor falls out from under you and you start feeling the cold seas of inifinity lapping up around your ankles.

Ctech isn't quite THAT bad, ironically.

comicshorse
2013-10-18, 09:36 AM
No, they were steering with their [redacted]. Their [censored] was [blanked] in their [blanked].

Ssssh, you'll get us in trouble with the Mods