It's rather easy for PCs to become saints in any large town or smaller settlement

[Kafana]

Let's say we have a group of four level 6 adventurers. They wander into a random small town, each with a thousand gold in gems, nonenchanted jewelery, art and coin. Now, they might make enough gold from selling that new +2 short sword that nobody needs to buy all the supplies they need, so each of them can pretty easily donate 500 gold to the poor district, and 2k gold isn't a small amount of money for anybody who's not in the adventuring business.

That being said, it's seems rather easy for PCs to be philanthropists, is it not?

[Blueiji]

Let's say we have a group of four level 6 adventurers. They wander into a random small town, each with a thousand gold in gems, nonenchanted jewelery, art and coin. Now, they might make enough gold from selling that new +2 short sword that nobody needs to buy all the supplies they need, so each of them can pretty easily donate 500 gold to the poor district, and 2k gold isn't a small amount of money for anybody who's not in the adventuring business.

That being said, it's seems rather easy for PCs to be philanthropists, is it not?

You're quite right, it's entirely possible for PCs to build up fantastically good reputations if they put work into it.

Unfortunately, most PCs seem more interested in stealing everything in sight. :smallbiggrin:

[Alleran]

...donate 500 gold...
I don't know what that means. :smallconfused:

[Ranting Fool]

You're quite right, it's entirely possible for PCs to build up fantastically good reputations if they put work into it.

Unfortunately, most PCs seem more interested in stealing everything in sight. :smallbiggrin:

My PC's have been known to loot everything that isn't nailed down... then go back and loot the nails as well as everything else :smallbiggrin:

Going back to a dungeon to take the Iron Doors of the walls to sell them really did make me sigh :smalltongue:

[Mystral]

Just because there is more gold does not mean that there is more food or luxury goods. There just is more gold. And more gold attracts more bandit raiders. If player characters just hand out gold willy nilly where ever they go, they might find that there are bandits following them, attacking any town they visited a few days after they left, like sharks following a pirate ship.

[Raven777]

Just because there is more gold does not mean that there is more food or luxury goods. There just is more gold. And more gold attracts more bandit raiders. If player characters just hand out gold willy nilly where ever they go, they might find that there are bandits following them, attacking any town they visited a few days after they left, like sharks following a pirate ship.

But bandits = more loot and Xp!

[Hamste]

But bandits = more loot and Xp!

Brilliant! The party kills the bandits, makes more money than they lost and look even better on the town's eye. After all not only did we give it a large sum of money but we also saved it from random bandits that were in no way called to the town by a random note we totally did not send.

[Andezzar]

And here I thought the OP was talking about actual sainthood.

[Clistenes]

And here I thought the OP was talking about actual sainthood.

That part comes when the Cleric of the party cures every disease, heals the blind and deaf people, regrows lost limbs, makes food appear from thin air, cleans their well's corrupted water, builds a new dam, a new defensive wall, a new temple for his deity and new sturdy homes for the poorest neighbours with a few castings of Wall of Stone, clears those giant rocks from the fields with Animate, and maybe brings back from death that little child who was killed by a wolf, if they got the diamonds to spare.

And if the Wizard wants to help, they can turn all those rocks they removed from the fields into meat, create a few Walls of Iron so the blacksmith don't have to buy metal outside, and use Magecraft and Unseen Crafter to build the roof and furniture for all those buildings the Cleric just made.

Just remember to add "It is [insert name of your deity] who commands me to help you and his/her power that does it" after every good deed, and they will soon consider you a prophet.

[Andezzar]

Doing all that and how the villagers view the PCs has nothing to do with actually becoming a saint i.e. acquiring the Saint template from BoED.

[Malimar]

I have a "villain" character who does this all the time. "I'm not 'donating to the orphanage', I'm investing in potential future minions!"

[Clistenes]

Doing all that and how the villagers view the PCs has nothing to do with actually becoming a saint i.e. acquiring the Saint template from BoED.

Oh well, that's the opposite of "easy"; that would be the reward for a whole life dedicated to uphold Good and your deity's Ethos...

...unless you are playing a Planescape game and manage to convince enough people that you really are a Saint, of course. :smallwink:

[Red Fel]

Let's say we have a group of four level 6 adventurers. They wander into a random small town, each with a thousand gold in gems, nonenchanted jewelery, art and coin. Now, they might make enough gold from selling that new +2 short sword that nobody needs to buy all the supplies they need, so each of them can pretty easily donate 500 gold to the poor district, and 2k gold isn't a small amount of money for anybody who's not in the adventuring business.

You're kind of missing an important point in all this.

The adventurers wander into a small town. You say there is a "poor district." But how wealthy is the rest of the town? Can the merchants - if any - even afford to pay for the +2 short sword?

If the town is so poor that they can't afford to pay for the sword, where will the adventurers get the money to donate?

Mystral also points out that adding gold does not add wealth or comfort. To a family with no income in an isolated village, having a bag of gold accomplishes nothing. The town is sufficiently isolated that gold becomes meaningless; nobody has anything to sell, and the only use for money is to travel elsewhere to buy goods. So you gave them money they can't spend on goods they'd have to travel to acquire anyway.

... Suddenly it looks easier just to burn the place down for the xp, doesn't it?

[icefractal]

If it's that entirely isolated, how do the people get supplies? For that matter, how did the PCs even find it? I mean, yes, there's a limit to how fast you can make use of gold, but there are also traveling traders. It's not like gold is useless until you're really beyond the edge of civilization - which the OP doesn't say at all.

ITT: A lot of party-pooping. How dare the PCs try to help people!? They should ... just teleport straight to Waterdeep, I guess?

I'd agree though, that providing a bit of pro-bono casting would have a quicker effect. And in your smaller settlements, one could get pretty famous that way. In a larger place, I have to imagine people are doing that already. Temples have their priests out spreading the word and demonstrating the power, mages need a good rep so there's no mob when a binding goes awry, and so forth. Not spelled out as such, but it makes sense and explains how people are maintaining a higher than historical standard of living while having to deal with actual monsters running around.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I have a "villain" character who does this all the time. "I'm not 'donating to the orphanage', I'm investing in potential future minions!"

So... basically a guy who wants to orchestrate the rise of a nation and make sure everyone is happy so that he can finally relax and kick back with the girl he picked out this week?

Because I want to play that guy now. :smalltongue:

[Story]

Mystral also points out that adding gold does not add wealth or comfort. To a family with no income in an isolated village, having a bag of gold accomplishes nothing. The town is sufficiently isolated that gold becomes meaningless; nobody has anything to sell, and the only use for money is to travel elsewhere to buy goods. So you gave them money they can't spend on goods they'd have to travel to acquire anyway.


The obvious solution is to spend that gold on a trap of Create Food And Water or the like.

[Red Fel]

The obvious solution is to spend that gold on a trap of Create Food And Water or the like.

At Ye Olde Trappery, of course. Every town with more than two houses has a merchant who sells resetting magical traps.

[ryu]

At Ye Olde Trappery, of course. Every town with more than two houses has a merchant who sells resetting magical traps.

Every high level wizard or cleric is probably capable of crafting them anyway if they really want to. Also I wouldn't even consider the effort taxing. Traps are awesome.

[Andezzar]

Welcome to tippyverse

[ryu]

It's the logical result of the rules as written for a reason. Natural instinct and the power available in the game just brings it forth.

[Tvtyrant]

I love the idea of a mid level caster running from town to town making massive fortifications and irrigation systems for them. Also Plant Growth and some other spells to make their lives better.

[Red Fel]

I love the idea of a mid level caster running from town to town making massive fortifications and irrigation systems for them. Also Plant Growth and some other spells to make their lives better.

This I can totally get behind.

"Have a Wall of Steel! Make all the arms and armor you want, which none of you have the strength or training to use!"

"Have a Wall of Stone! Fortify the village and protect yourself from absolutely nothing which would be interested in your abject poverty!"

"Have some Unseen Servants to clean your single dirt road!"

I love it.

[QuintonBeck]

This I can totally get behind.

"Have a Wall of Steel! Make all the arms and armor you want, which none of you have the strength or training to use!"

"Have a Wall of Stone! Fortify the village and protect yourself from absolutely nothing which would be interested in your abject poverty!"

"Have some Unseen Servants to clean your single dirt road!"

I love it.

The fighter guy in your party gives them some training. I don't see how saying the walls might be useless actually makes them useless, they're certainly not a bad thing. A clean place is a happy place.

Having a town with even just 30 good people having your back is in no way a bad thing and it didn't cost you all that much. I don't understand why you think having allies and worshiping masses is a bad idea. If you've got all the towns throughout the hold under your sway you've suddenly become an important political player and that just screams plot hooks and jumping off points.

[ryu]

It also scream oh dear goodness the entire map is coated in safehouses, potentially strong allies, and resources. That's more powerful than you think.

[Andezzar]

As if the PCs were the first to do that.

[Abaddona]

Yeah, nothing can discourage various shady organisations more than becoming enemy of whole nation by simply making you angry (well, actually being 20 level tier 1 caster is first place, but this is close second). Sure - farmers don't fight and need protection, but at the same time they generate resources and nobody sane will risk losing acces to those resources (and again - bad guys probably can take what they want by force, but burning and killing every time they need to supply their organisation probably will raise some attention) over some minor thing. Also several thousand commoners is nation-wide information gathering organisation (just hire some experts who will listen to various rumors), potential several thousands recruits for your army or simply great leverage when you must negotiate with various politicians.

[Clistenes]

This I can totally get behind.

"Have a Wall of Steel! Make all the arms and armor you want, which none of you have the strength or training to use!"

"Have a Wall of Stone! Fortify the village and protect yourself from absolutely nothing which would be interested in your abject poverty!"

"Have some Unseen Servants to clean your single dirt road!"

I love it.

The iron can be used to make horseshoes, axes, hammers, sickles, knifes ...etc., not just weapons. That way they don't have to buy it and they save a lot of money.

The walls can protect them against bandits, goblins and orcs that come to steal their animals and rape their women. It won't protect them against a big army, but it will be effective against small groups of raiders that enter the town or village at night and steal some stuff or kidnap some women.

The Unseen Servants/Crafter can thatch the roof of that old lady who suffers a lot of leaks and can't climb and repair it herself. They can also harvest the turnips or Old Bob, who isn't so young anymore and whose back always aches horribly when he bends.

[Story]

They can also harvest the turnips or Old Bob, who isn't so young anymore and whose back always aches horribly when he bends.

Cue Twilight Sparkle harvesting the entire orchard at once with telekinesis.

It's a bit pricey, but a Lyre of Building would let the townspeople build whatever they want: walls, barns, canals, etc. Though I'm not sure low level NPCs would have the skills to get the full benefit out of it.

[Sidmen]

I've done this before. Well, it was in an Exalted game so the exact spell names were different, but the concept is the same.

I was assigned to some stupid mud-hut village as its Satrap to extract timber or something. So, I casually walked around the village and constructed a massive 2,000 house town complete with smithies, granaries, fortified walls, the works. At the same time, my party constructed immense public works and summoned creatures to build a paved road to the nearby cities and towns.

I'm pretty sure we're lauded as saints there...

[JaronK]

I have a "villain" character who does this all the time. "I'm not 'donating to the orphanage', I'm investing in potential future minions!"

How interesting... my evil character did something very similar, right down to building his own orphanage and school! The idea, of course, was to train the orphans so that they were both very strong and very greatful to him, so that eventually all the greatest Wizards in the world would be in his debt. Combined with some clever usage of Sp Extract Gift and making himself count as a demon, and he could rule the world through charitable donations!

JaronK

[bekeleven]

How interesting... my evil character did something very similar, right down to building his own orphanage and school!

http://i.imgur.com/2vkzbXc.png

[ryu]

And his plan would've worked if allowed to continue.

[Kafana]

How interesting... my evil character did something very similar, right down to building his own orphanage and school!

On a side note, how much would it cost to build a school and orphanage? Let's say medium size.