[Pathfinder] Dragon in humanoid shape

[skyth]

I was looking through the spells and magic items in Pathfinder and can't seem to find a way to have a dragon that can indefinitely be in a humanoid form as a form of disguise. Closest I've found is Alter Self, but that only lasts 1 min/level. Illusions won't work, as I want it to actually be in that form.

For a 13th level sorcerer (IE max of 6th level spells), is there a way to do it?

Yes, I could houserule it, but I like having official explanations for how things work just for my own sanity (My players would never question it).

[jedipilot24]

I was looking through the spells and magic items in Pathfinder and can't seem to find a way to have a dragon that can indefinitely be in a humanoid form as a form of disguise. Closest I've found is Alter Self, but that only lasts 1 min/level. Illusions won't work, as I want it to actually be in that form.

For a 13th level sorcerer (IE max of 6th level spells), is there a way to do it?

Yes, I could houserule it, but I like having official explanations for how things work just for my own sanity (My players would never question it).

Well there's the Polymorph spell but that now has the same duration as Alter Self.
Pathfinder really nerfed all the shapechanging stuff, and for good reasons.

[avr]

Would Magic Jar (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/magic-jar) do?

[skyth]

No, because I want it to actually be the dragon and it could shift to dragon form if it wanted to.

[Alleran]

You could try porting the "Alternate Form" feat from Dragons of Eberron into PF.

[Keneth]

Short answer: No.

Easy way is to give your dragon the Change Shape (alter self) special ability and be done with it.

That or give it a greater hat of disguise. I'm sure it can afford a 12k gp item at that point.

[Ravenica]

Bronze, silver, and Gold already get Change Shape at young, very young, and wyrmling respectively so there is precedent. GM willing nearly any dragon could probably manage to slip it into their repetoire.

but it's still limited to minutes per level and 3 times per day

[Keneth]

but it's still limited to minutes per level and 3 times per day

Nope, since Bestiary II, all Change Shape abilities last indefinitely.

[Ravenica]

hadn't noticed that, but it still precludes a huge or larger dragon from assuming the form of a medium sized human... irritating

[Keneth]

hadn't noticed that, but it still precludes a huge or larger dragon from assuming the form of a medium sized human... irritating

Also incorrect, dragons can assume any animal or humanoid shape, which overrides the normal size limitations of Change Shape. :smallsmile:

Edit: Limited by what's permitted by polymorph, of course.

[Ravenica]

That you'd have to argue with any given DM on, "any animal or humanoid form" doesn't preclude the size limitation as the size limitation is specific "The creature
cannot change shape to a form more than one size category
smaller or larger than its original form." There is no specific caveat listed for "unless otherwise stated to remove it, and it's not specifically called out in the dragon's ability unless it's been errata'd and I'm missing it.

[Keneth]

The Change Shape ability is always overridden by specific language. For instance, an imp can polymorph into a boar or giant spider, both of which are medium-sized, even though an imp is tiny.

To quote JJ from way back when Bestiary was first released:


That's the whole point of the ability. That's why on the entry for "Change Shape" at the start of each dragon's Special Abilities it says they can take "any" animal or humanoid form. The use of the word "any" allows them to pick any size.

[Ravenica]

I don't disagree that is the intention. I'm just saying it's worded far too ambiguously. Honestly 90% of the monster abilities are either useless or gimped as written.

[Keneth]

It's a good thing GMs can make decisions based on RAI then. :smallwink: