Speculation on V's gender

[Iranon]

There has been a lot of discussion about which gender people believe Vaarsuvius to be... but why does the mystery exist in the first place?

'V was meant to be male (or female...) and the Giant just went with the gender confusion once forum readers commented' is a sensible but ultimately boring answer... let's see if we can come up with something better. Since the whole matter is officially undecided, I don't think we'll get to the 'right' answer, but it would be nice to get a few theories that make sense on some level.


Evidence:

1) A fixation with blowing things up? Over-educated verbosity coupled with a tendency to lecture? Very private and uncomfortable with most social interaction? Willingness to back up people he dislikes? V. has just about all typically male traits I can think of that are compatible with a studious, knowledge-oriented personality.

2) Alignment given as 'arrogant neutral' but hard to place. I would lean towards chaotic, but some even assumed they are lawful. We have conclusive evidence for non-evil, neutral is semi-official and seems to fit better anyway but V's alignment still remains the most mysterious of the Order.



Conlusion:

V's player mislabeled the character sheet.
Gender: True Neutral
Alignment: Male

[Kaerbek]

I think you meant:

Gender: Male
Alignment: True Neutral

xD

Anygay... I mean, anyway... I think Vaarsuvius is True Neutral.

Why not Chaotic: he never rebels, he never do as he please, he always follow orders (even orders that are not strictly attached to law)
Why not Lawful: He support chaotic actions when necessary just for the good of the group, he chose to save Belkar, not letting Miko kill him (that is a contradiction, he hates both Belkan and Miko, but he chose to save "the chaos" insted to "let the law do her work" but he's constantly attacking Belkar)
Just the way of Julia Greenhilt, who would let his brother die, but a few seconds later she's helping him.

If Vaarsuvius is Male or Female, I'm just sugesting:

Look, the pawns are in place to think of V as something different (I mean, always male or female, but I'm talking about somthing "else" with him/her)
He has a dual personality towards his sexuality, he speaks of his/her beolved as his/her "mate" and his/her "girlfriend/boyfriend", he/she is AN ELF FOR HEAVENS SAKES, AN ELF!
How many jokes about elves being gay have you heard??? male elves are just like her female counterparts, they love art, are delicated the talk with a sweet tender voice...

I think Vaarsuvius is male... but he's just gay, I mean, Rich Burlew draw male and female characters very clearly, males = plane chest, females = boobs.
V's got plane chest, has a male name (don't even try to argue, it's male), a male behavior, he's married and has a "mate", he always feel comfortable being next to Haley (also because he's a true gentleman with girls and doesn't have the machoman attitude towards female, the way of Belkar or Roy do)
Also, Rich has been introducing the word "gay" more often in the comic, so it means that gay people are real and have their value in the comic, I think he's trying to "prepare us" for the stunning reveal...

I don't know, may be i'm just being paranoid xD

[The Extinguisher]

He wasn't given a gender or a alignment. His player just couldn't be bothered to put one in.

EDIT: I use the pronoun "he" in its person of unknown gender usage.

[Yodaman23]

I have personally asked Mr. Burlew, not what gender is V, as that would be a question in futility but will we ever know. He told me definativly that we will find out and even see Vs mate. I personally think V is a woman on the basis that V is the only one Haley trusts to share a room with. Granted V is married and faithful but that still seems like good evidence as Haley is the only one in the party that knows for sure what sex V is. I will go with the fact that V shows a characteristic male apathay for most things but I see that as only more gender confusion.

[Kaerbek]

He wasn't given a gender or a alignment. His player just couldn't be bothered to put one in.

That's soooo simplistic...

[Demented]

I find the OP's conclusion to be both meritous and humorable.
Not that either of those is a word.

It does make sense.
Though even V seems to understand its own conundrum, which makes for... unusualness. Which isn't a word either.

[Rex Idiotarum]

I predict V's Mate will be revealed, but long before his gender. How do you make a joke about being Gender Ambiguous even funnier? Do it twice.

[krossbow]

lack of boobies does not a guy make.

Look at Mialee from the D&D players handbook; now, does that look like a large chested hot woman to you? DOES IT?! if it does, then I think you just have a thing for philipino crossdressers, cause that lady looks like a dude. (joke, joke :smallwink: )


Now, what is mialee? A purple haired elf wizard. What is V? A purple haired elf wizard. Perfectly compatable.

this could be the giant making fun of the D&D iconic wizard chick.

[Kaerbek]

lack of boobies does not a guy make.

Look at Mialee from the D&D players handbook; now, does that look like a large chested hot woman to you? DOES IT?! if it does, then I think you just have a thing for philipino crossdressers, cause that lady looks like a dude. (joke, joke :smallwink: )


Now, what is mialee? A purple haired elf wizard. What is V? A purple haired elf wizard. Perfectly compatable.

this could be the giant making fun of the D&D iconic wizard chick.

That's the dumbest thing I ever read, I feel dumber knowing that... (Roy's style :P)

D&D is one thing, Oots is another thing, get that straight...

-Mialee is a generic character created as an example to follow for new players who want to play wizards, she doesn't even count as a story character, even if there are quests and storys about/with her...
-You can obviusly tell Mialee is a female
-Oots is based on D&D.
-Oots IS NOT D&D.
-We have evidence that point Mialee as a female.
-We have evidence that MIGHT point Vaarsuvius as a female.
-STOP SEARCHING THE FIFHT LEG TO THE CAT! (as we say in argetina :P)
-To much deal about V's sexuality to add more confusing examples of characters that have nothing to do with the original topic...

[Wolfie_1066]

Mialee is a defenate Female...no offence but im sure of it...now...We cant see V's figure because of his (Note im going to just say HE cause its eseiest for me to type) At first i thought V was a girl then i started noticeing things wrong with that so i did some research to find anything to make it obveous and still couldent find it but from my point of view:

V has said in a recent comic that he is not the person to ask about certain gender traits. from this ive thought about things...i play NWN and ive been in the toolset...i see a option of gender called "Both" this gave me the idea that maybe V is somehow a mix of both genders not male or female but somewhere in between. but then again if i have to say one of two genders: Male or Female. im going to say hes a she :smalltongue: female. because thats what i think is most likely with her behavor

As for alignment i would speculate true neutral leaning towards chaotic good. although she does follow orders shes given at times thats only from Roy and occasionally other characters but not fro miko and anyone else. thus i conclude a true neutral alignment leaning toward chaotic good. as for the figure theory i pretty much shattered that with the Robe thing...the Robe poofs out and hides all of her features. but i conclude shes a girl.

[krossbow]

That's the dumbest thing I ever read, I feel dumber knowing that... (Roy's style :P)

D&D is one thing, Oots is another thing, get that straight...




which is of course why the order of the stick talk about D&D things all the time, are D&D classes, and reference D&D things all the time. Yeah, rogues bards, wizards, d20's, evasion... dang! How'd I EVER think it had anything to do with D&D?

Dude, the game is based on D&D, as you said. It references D&D, it makes fun of D&D, how can D&D not be relevant? It pulls large amounts of stuff from it, so IT IS RELEVANT.




Second: There are things called "Iconic heroes". These are the people in teh players handbook. These are what the D&D people want you to think of when thinking of these classes. Mialee is the Iconic wizard. Therefore, Mialee is relevant. Even if she was never played, she is intended to be what people see for inspiration as a wizard concept.


Third: If you think Mialee looks like a lady outright, then you my friend have not seen much art of her. Look at the stuff in splat books; that does NOT look highly womanish.
edit: however, I do admit she is definitely a woman in the PHB, but she is still flat and fugly in it. Therefore, not all elf woman are "hot" as many people are stating.



FOURTH: If Mialee is A. the iconic wizard, and B. androgenous in appearance, and C. an Elf, then it IS relevant for V to be a parody of said thing, and therefore, for V's gender to be speculated from there.
________
Hotbox Vaporizer (http://www.vaporshop.com/hotbox-vaporizer.html)

[Rex Idiotarum]

Maybe V is a Hermaphrodite. ;}

[the_tick_rules]

I subscribe to V being a woman for a couple reasons. i mentioned them before in a previous incarnation of this thread.

1. rooming only with haley. I'm not saying a guy and girl who aren't a couple or one wants it to be that way sharing a room, but seems more likely for a woman.

2. the extreme offense taken to the kiss. I've been to a lot of drinking parties and seen stuff like this before. guys usually make a quick gay comment followed by a shove/hit. In my experience guys easily forgive drunken acts of stupidity more easily than women. again this is not absolute but is more likely.

3. clothes shopping with Celia. I've only seen this ever done (excluding gays guys) when it's their girlfriend or someone they want to be, or some relation like family. I'm NOT being sexist, as i was accused of last time. I'm just saying I've never heard of a guy helping a girl whom he has no attraction to shop for clothes so she can to go out with a close friend of his.

[Rex Idiotarum]

1. Like we've been saying, plus if V's gay, than Haley may treat him like a chick.

2. V does not like Belkar, he does not want Belkar to Like him.

3. Hmmm...Gay thing, again,

[Kaerbek]

Lets go step by step...


which is of course why the order of the stick talk about D&D things all the time, are D&D classes, and reference D&D things all the time. Yeah, rogues bards, wizards, d20's, evasion... dang! How'd I EVER think it had anything to do with D&D?
Dude, the game is based on D&D, as you said. It references D&D, it makes fun of D&D, how can D&D not be relevant? It pulls large amounts of stuff from it, so IT IS RELEVANT.

Yep, as I said, don't need to get to redundant, makes you twice boring. I never said it wasn't relevant, I even never mention the word relevant or irrelevant, I even never said tha D&D shouldn't be related to Oots or similar, so..., ahem..., pardon me, but someone is a bit histerical tonight ;)

All I said was that bringing the world (not the rules) of D&D was out of scheme here, Mialee fits in a world that we all know as "Toril" with it's famous Athkatla, Sword Coast, Underdark, Umar Hills, etc, pretty much what you see in Baldur's Gate.
The rules of D&D, the idea and concept used as buck up to support Rich's own world (even with a different Pantheon of gods) is a total different thing.


Second: There are things called "Iconic heroes". These are the people in teh players handbook. These are what the D&D people want you to think of when thinking of these classes. Mialee is the Iconic wizard. Therefore, Mialee is relevant. Even if she was never played, she is intended to be what people see for inspiration as a wizard concept.

Again, as I already said: Mialee is a generic character created as an example to follow for new players who want to play wizards, she doesn't even count as a story character, even if there are quests and storys about/with her

Read everything, not just what you need ;)


Third: If you think Mialee looks like a lady outright, then you my friend have not seen much art of her. Look at the stuff in splat books; that does NOT look highly womanish.

May be, but that's only your own personal interpretation of Mialee's sexuality, one that given your subjective interpretation, can fall pray of misunderstunding even to you. So...


FOURTH: If Mialee is A. the iconic wizard, and B. androgenous in appearance, and C. an Elf, then it IS relevant for V to be a parody of said thing, and therefore, for V's gender to be speculated from there.

No, that's what YOU want to do, no what it should be done without question, but taking Mialee as an example to compare to Vaarsuvius, again, it doesn't matter, because I've seen enough of both Mialee and V, Mialee to me is pure female with female characteristics and Vaarsuvius is a pure male, you say that's not true, but without the ultimate judgement of the creator/s of mialee and V, this discussion will lead to a never-ending story, so, no point bother...

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

There has been a lot of discussion about which gender people believe Vaarsuvius to be... but why does the mystery exist in the first place?

'V was meant to be male (or female...) and the Giant just went with the gender confusion once forum readers commented' is a sensible but ultimately boring answer... let's see if we can come up with something better. Since the whole matter is officially undecided, I don't think we'll get to the 'right' answer, but it would be nice to get a few theories that make sense on some level.

Evidence:

1) A fixation with blowing things up? Over-educated verbosity coupled with a tendency to lecture? Very private and uncomfortable with most social interaction? Willingness to back up people he dislikes? V. has just about all typically male traits I can think of that are compatible with a studious, knowledge-oriented personality.

2) Alignment given as 'arrogant neutral' but hard to place. I would lean towards chaotic, but some even assumed they are lawful. We have conclusive evidence for non-evil, neutral is semi-official and seems to fit better anyway but V's alignment still remains the most mysterious of the Order.

Conlusion:

V's player mislabeled the character sheet.
Gender: True Neutral
Alignment: Male
I have the silly notion from time to time that I'm witty. But this...this was like a miniature masterpiece. :smallbiggrin:

[battleburn]

Conlusion:

V's player mislabeled the character sheet.
Gender: True Neutral
Alignment: Male

Truly masterfull. I never thought of the possibillity of switching gender and alignment.

[The Extinguisher]

3. clothes shopping with Celia. I've only seen this ever done (excluding gays guys) when it's their girlfriend or someone they want to be, or some relation like family. I'm NOT being sexist, as i was accused of last time. I'm just saying I've never heard of a guy helping a girl whom he has no attraction to shop for clothes so she can to go out with a close friend of his.

That's not the best evidence, as I have helped a female friend shop for clothes who isn't my girlfriend and I am neither female nor gay.

To Kaerbek, why not. V's player simply could have thought that it wasn't worth the time to fill it in.

[Setra]

Ever think maybe V is a male but his player is a girl? Or vice versa?

Personally I think V is a male, and will not be convinced otherwise until hir gender is said in the strip.

[Querzis]

I subscribe to V being a woman for a couple reasons. i mentioned them before in a previous incarnation of this thread.

1. rooming only with haley. I'm not saying a guy and girl who aren't a couple or one wants it to be that way sharing a room, but seems more likely for a woman.

2. the extreme offense taken to the kiss. I've been to a lot of drinking parties and seen stuff like this before. guys usually make a quick gay comment followed by a shove/hit. In my experience guys easily forgive drunken acts of stupidity more easily than women. again this is not absolute but is more likely.

3. clothes shopping with Celia. I've only seen this ever done (excluding gays guys) when it's their girlfriend or someone they want to be, or some relation like family. I'm NOT being sexist, as i was accused of last time. I'm just saying I've never heard of a guy helping a girl whom he has no attraction to shop for clothes so she can to go out with a close friend of his.

Thats funny. Its almost always what people use to state that V is a female even though that :

1. V is Haley best friend in the order and all the others one in the order are pervert (lets admit it). Any girls who know the people in the order would want to room with V and not with everyone else.

2. I dont think anyone woudnt get offense by that, especially if its Belkar. Anyway V didnt attack him because he was offensed that much, just because he wanted to be back in the 'hate' list instead of the 'lust' list wich is quite understandable.

3. I'm actually pretty sure any guy who is asked nicely by a cute girl if he can help her to choose clothes to go out with a friend (lucky bastard) would accept. I dont know if I'm odd but at least I would do it and I'm not gay.

Those are the only 3 evidences people can find about V being a female (and its really weak) while there is easely 20 reasons why I think V is a male (mostly some aspect of is personnality).

[Amon Star]

I personally think V is a woman on the basis that V is the only one Haley trusts to share a room with.


I subscribe to V being a woman for a couple reasons. i mentioned them before in a previous incarnation of this thread.

1. rooming only with haley. I'm not saying a guy and girl who aren't a couple or one wants it to be that way sharing a room, but seems more likely for a woman.

I would like to point out that :haley:, due to her self-loathing of her latent bisexuality probably wouldn't want to share a room with another woman. Also, it's unlikely she would have one as her best friend and confidant. Therefore, a male :vaarsuvius: would be a good alternative because; a) he/she is married so is unlikely to oggly/molest her, b) is her oldest friend in the group, c) the others wouldn't think it to odd them sharing a room because they don't know :vaarsuvius:'s gender, and d) other points that I can't think of at the moment.


All I said was that bringing the world (not the rules) of D&D was out of scheme here, Mialee fits in a world that we all know as "Toril" with it's famous Athkatla, Sword Coast, Underdark, Umar Hills, etc, pretty much what you see in Baldur's Gate.
The rules of D&D, the idea and concept used as buck up to support Rich's own world (even with a different Pantheon of gods) is a total different thing.


Mialee isn't from Toril, she's from Oerth, the Greyhawk setting.

[vbushido]

All I said was that bringing the world (not the rules) of D&D was out of scheme here, Mialee fits in a world that we all know as "Toril" with it's famous Athkatla, Sword Coast, Underdark, Umar Hills, etc, pretty much what you see in Baldur's Gate. The rules of D&D, the idea and concept used as buck up to support Rich's own world (even with a different Pantheon of gods) is a total different thing. D&D is the rules set not the world. Greyhawk is the world/campaign setting and it's only used in the Player's Handbook because Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro owns it. Mialee may have been included in Greyhawk products, but she is an Iconic nonetheless and could be fit into ANY campaign world (for instance, Toril of Forgotten Realms). Besides, Burlew has made such references before. Shadowdancers originated in Forgotten Realms. And there was the cast from Final Fantasy (obviously not even from a D&D based world). Sabine could be from the Abyss or Baator, both are Greyhawk cosmology & tied to Toril as well.

P.S. Oh, and hysterical means "emotionally crazy like a woman" and can be considered an insult. :smallsmile:

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I'm just wearing black until I find something darker

[Iranon]

I'm glad some people liked my interpretation :)

@ Bor the Barbarian Monk: Don't sell yourself short; your quirky takes on the oddities of the Stickiverse were what inspired me to come up with a sufficiently twisted explanation in the first place.
And I doubt I could come up with quality drama on such a consistent basis!



As I said, I doubt we will get conclusive evidence until the day the Giant decides to drop his/her pants in public (Vaarsuvius', not the Giant's).

Does anyone else have any theories for the current state of affairs relating to our favourite gender-bending wizard?
There are plenty of threads that consist mostly of 'V is clearly male because x' and 'V is obviously female because y'... I think throwing around hypotheses as to why the uncertainty exists in the first place would be more fun.

[Kish]

Shadowdancers originated in

...the 3.0ed Dungeon Master's Guide, where they weren't tied to the Forgotten Realms or any other campaign setting.

Not to detract from your point about D&D being a rules set, not a world.

[Copacetic]

:vaarsuvius: is a girl. Face it people you can say "oh well V is a gut because y" but forget everything else and look at how she dresses.:vaarsuvius: has a gold circlet. How many guys want to walk around looking like a pansy. Diving back into old stuff yes she rooms only with Hailey becausee she might not want the guys to find out about :vaarsuvius:'s gender.Last and final point she has never done anything blatently barbaric or rude and All the the guys i know could't be polite for that long

[Zonac]

I can't remeber what number the comic was, but at the potion shop, they refered to v as ma'am, not sir. Thats all I have to say.

[vbushido]

:vaarsuvius: is a girl. Face it people you can say "oh well V is a gut because y" but forget everything else and look at how she dresses.:vaarsuvius: has a gold circlet. How many guys want to walk around looking like a pansy. Diving back into old stuff yes she rooms only with Hailey becausee she might not want the guys to find out about :vaarsuvius:'s gender.Last and final point she has never done anything blatently barbaric or rude and All the the guys i know could't be polite for that long

Conan the Barbarian wore a circlet. They keep your hair out of your eyes. And men in previous ages did wear them.

And for never doing anything blatantly barbaric or rude, I could say the same for women. I know lots of straight, effeminate male gamers and lots of straight, barbaric female gamers. S/he could be crude offscreen. And the by the same estimation, where do I turn in my boobs? :smallwink:

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I've had my weird **** quota for the week. Thank you.

[Setra]

:vaarsuvius: is a girl. Face it people you can say "oh well V is a gut because y" but forget everything else and look at how she dresses.:vaarsuvius: has a gold circlet. How many guys want to walk around looking like a pansy. Diving back into old stuff yes she rooms only with Hailey becausee she might not want the guys to find out about :vaarsuvius:'s gender.Last and final point she has never done anything blatently barbaric or rude and All the the guys i know could't be polite for that long

Well first off, I think Circlets are cool. Second off, :vaarsuvius: is an elf, even come of the coolest elves (ie. Gilthanas) look like "a pansy"

[The Extinguisher]

Frigs, V is an elf. Average male behavior applies to humans.

[Demented]

Average male behavior applies to humanoids. And Dragons too.


Maybe someone should start a running tally of all the times V has been addressed as male or female. Then we can assume V is male/female based on which is more prevalent by the current strip, just for the sake of it. Rich has probably kept the numbers fairly even, so it would be an interesting game.

[Iranon]

Average gender-based behaviour seems to pertain to demihumans as well. Case in point: drow females.

[The Extinguisher]

...Quiet you

And Demented, Rich has stated that when a character address V with a male or female pronoun, it is mearly thier thoughts on the subject, and not nessicarily the truth.

Actually, V might be a third Gender.

[Demented]

"Rich has stated that when a character address V with a male or female pronoun, it is mearly thier thoughts on the subject, and not nessicarily the truth."

Exactly!
Perhaps my post didn't clearly express the point. It would be amusing, and nothing more, to tally up the opinions of NPCs to see what their "majority" thinks. It's not conclusive, but no statistic ever was. Using it to assign V a gender, as far as forum discussion is concerned, is only a bonus, since, as we meet more NPCs, V's gender can only fluctuate.

[Setra]

"Rich has stated that when a character address V with a male or female pronoun, it is mearly thier thoughts on the subject, and not nessicarily the truth."

Exactly!
Perhaps my post didn't clearly express the point. It would be amusing, and nothing more, to tally up the opinions of NPCs to see what their "majority" thinks. It's not conclusive, but no statistic ever was. Using it to assign V a gender, as far as forum discussion is concerned, is only a bonus, since, as we meet more NPCs, V's gender can only fluctuate.

Interesting idea, I think I'll start the tally now

First time V has a gender attached to hir, is in #9 from what I can tell. The gender is Male.
#20, Roy says to V "It's all you dog", technically a male reference.


Male: 1.5
Female: 0

I got distracted by shiny things, and decided not to finish.

[TheoCryst]

My money is on male, personally. There was never even any doubt in my mind about this until I started reading the forums and realized that some people are not sure. I had always just assumed that V was an effeminate guy, and any reference to him as a female ("she", "ma'am", etc) was just a play on his lack of masculinity. I'll believe female when I see proof in the strip; until then, I'm going with male elf (which implies a dearth of machismo to begin with).

[Kaerbek]

Ther's one script (the first ones) where Roy says: "V-man here, is casting Identify" (referring to the belt of masculinity/femeninity.

So, there will be always those who will adress V as a male, others as a female, depending ON THAT CHARACTER point of view, of course, being Roy such a macho man, he wouldn't stand the idea of V being female.
But all the others (Sabine, the potions salers, whoever) that adress V as a female, is becaus the DON'T KNOW Vaarsuvius at all, and those who do, adress him as a male (except for Belkar, who keeps calling him "adroginus twit" or whatever)

But I still think he's male, but gay...

I mean:
-what kind of male would do cloth-shopping with a faerie-like character? a gay friend.
-what kind of male feels comfortable with a girl friend without having sexual feelings about her? a gay friend
-what kind of male has to "hide" the identity of his "mate" in order to preserv his sexual integrity? a gay one.
-what kind of male makes Belkar think there's something wrong about his attitudes towards believing he "touched Elan's weapon of choice"? you guessed.

Vaarsuvius is an elf, elves are very noble, and also, very proud. He won't run shouting he's gay, he's male or famle, just because the hell of it, he has dignity, pride and self estime high enough not to be giving explanations about his personal life to anyone who aproaches.
And gay guys, are just like him...

On the other hand, Rich is always playing with the battle of sexs in the scripts, denying this posibility would be... like taking away something new...

(and for those who started to think I'm gay for making such a deal of this, you're wrong xD)

[The Extinguisher]

-what kind of male would do cloth-shopping with a faerie-like character?
The good friend kind

-what kind of male feels comfortable with a girl friend without having sexual feelings about her?
The married or in a loving relationship kind.

-what kind of male has to "hide" the identity of his "mate" in order to preserv his sexual integrity?
The kind who has to be around people like Belkar all day

-what kind of male makes Belkar think there's something wrong about his attitudes towards believing he "touched Elan's weapon of choice"?
Okay, I'd admit on this one.

[Demented]

That only proves Belkar is gay, not Elan.
I think.
I don't actually know what that bizarre string of words means, much less which strip it's referring to. Hum.

[Mayo_the_Thurmaturge]

Just a thought- What if his/her gender is screwed up because of 'tampering with fundamental natural when bored' EDIT: here: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0203.html,
or some other arcane-based thing?

[krossbow]

And the by the same estimation, where do I turn in my boobs? :smallwink:




Must resist.... temptation to make....crude sexual comment.... must roll.... d20 will save... against temptation.

[Kaerbek]

The good friend kind

Honestly, tell me that you have at least one boy friend you go shopping with (and that is not gay) and I'll shut my mouth.


The married or in a loving relationship kind.

I said sexual feelings, not emotional feelings, but..., you're a girl, I can't expect you to understad this particular point :P


The kind who has to be around people like Belkar all day

That's a contradiction, if I would have to spen all day with someone as Belkar, pestering me with my sexual tastes, I would set clear things from the beginning, instead of hiding me and giving him more tools and reasons to push it, because, if V is not gay, what is he hiding from us? :)

Okay, I'd admit on this one.[/QUOTE]

Gotcha :D

[The Extinguisher]

I'm actually a guy, straight too. *Points to gender thing*

And I have gone shopping with females that I have had no realtionship for.

As for the sexual thing, one (s)he's an elf, and they are crazy xenophobes, and two, (s)he could have them, just control them.

True. But Belkar would bug him anywayy :)

[Mewtroid]

When I was reading the archives, I pretty much starte dthinking 'female' at comic #3.

[Demented]

Nobody actually asked what V's mate's gender is.
Even then, V's reply is predictable...

Edit: In retrospect, I'll spoiler it. Just for the, y'know, mystery.
:vaarsuvius: "I don't see the importance of knowing what gender my mate is. She... it... he... they... my mate's an elf, there's nothing more that could possibly be useful to you."
:belkar: "Pick a pronoun. Any pronoun."
:vaarsuvius: "Quiet, halfling. Your language not having sufficient pronouns does not make it necessary to divulge information about my personal life. And, for the record, you would not be able to come to a valid conclusion even if I did tell."
:belkar: "Maybe. But I've been replacing the love letters you send to your mate with letters of my own, and I need to know who goes on top."
:vaarsuvius: "WHAT!?"

[krossbow]

I think we all think V's a girl because we are actually sexually imature guys who just crave another femal in the comics to ogle; even if they are flat.






Seriously though, I don't think we'll find out for a LONG time folks. V reminds me a lot of spock though, if that means anything. V for vulcan? :p

[Scalenex]

Oggling stick figure characters is always bad and it doesn't matter if they are flat.

Rich himself said that if Vaarsuvius in FAQ is called male or female it's based on the character's view, not reality.

One doesn't need to worry about what pronoun to use on Vaarsuvius. "V" rolls off the tongue just as easily as "he" or "she" and it's easier to write.

There is a tangent on whether a straight guy can go shopping with a woman who he is not dating and is not family. If you want to go by stereotypes alone, you cannot label V gay by the comics. V wasn't really enthused about shopping and doesn't do any other stereotypical gay activities (V mentioned getting married, not getting a "life partner")

For people more interested in exploring the motivations behind men shopping with female friends, I would suggest reading up on Ladder Theory. I don't know what the rules about posting a link to that would be so I won't. LT in this situation would recommend against men shopping with women who they are not dating unless they are gay or they simply are uninterested her physically or they are seeing someone they consider much better. Any one of those three could apply to V, V could be gay (or a straight woman), V could find non-elves inferior physical specimans, or could simply have found true love with per (the PC adrongenous term for his/her that caught on about as well Esperanto) mate.

[Scalenex]

Oggling stick figure characters is always bad and it doesn't matter if they are flat.

Rich himself said that if Vaarsuvius in FAQ is called male or female it's based on the character's view, not reality.

One doesn't need to worry about what pronoun to use on Vaarsuvius. "V" rolls off the tongue just as easily as "he" or "she" and it's easier to write.

There is a tangent on whether a straight guy can go shopping with a woman who he is not dating and is not family. If you want to go by stereotypes alone, you cannot label V gay by the comics. V wasn't really enthused about shopping and doesn't do any other stereotypical gay activities (V mentioned getting married, not getting a "life partner")

For people more interested in exploring the motivations behind men shopping with female friends, I would suggest reading up on Ladder Theory. I don't know what the rules about posting a link to that would be so I won't. LT in this situation would recommend against men shopping with women who they are not dating unless they are gay or they simply are uninterested her physically or they are seeing someone they consider much better. Any one of those three could apply to V, V could be gay (or a straight woman), V could find non-elves inferior physical specimans, or could simply have found true love with per (the PC adrongenous term for his/her that caught on about as well Esperanto) mate.

EDIT: Okay V does talk about doilies in #34

[Amon Star]

I can't remeber what number the comic was, but at the potion shop, they refered to v as ma'am, not sir. Thats all I have to say.

As The Giant has said, that just shows the characters' opinion.


Average gender-based behaviour seems to pertain to demihumans as well. Case in point: drow females.

Personally, I wouldn't say Drow Females are feminine.


-what kind of male makes Belkar think there's something wrong about his attitudes towards believing he "touched Elan's weapon of choice"? you guessed.

If you're refering to this comic;

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0028.html

then that is just :belkar:'s opinion, or he could be referring to gender, not sexuality.


I think we all think V's a girl because we are actually sexually imature guys who just crave another femal in the comics to ogle; even if they are flat.

:vaarsuvius: is the most oggly worthy regardless of his her gender IHO.

[Ayya the Fearsome]

add boobs and it's a definite girl.

[Kaerbek]

No boobs, no girl :P

[Black Cat Godess]

I'm going to say that V is female, and only for one very simple reason.

Without much of a glance, one can tell that there is a great deal of similarity between Soon's group when they were going around to contain the snarl, and between our favorite Order of the Stick. If memory serves, in Soon's group, there were two females, the elf and the halfling. Yet, there is only one female (that we know of for certain) in The Order of the Stick, and that would be Hailey. So, simply for the sake of similarity, I say that V is also female.

:P It's a very silly theory, but I thought you all might get a laugh out of it anyway.

[Zephra]

V is male:
the 'us' ending is traditionally male
the giant would have given him a female shape, had he been a .
early in the strip, roy refers to V as V-man. that was before the readers started asking about V's gender.

[The Extinguisher]

No boobs, no girl :P

Lack of boobies does not a guy make

[Shadow of the Sun]

Abundance of boobies does not a female make, either. Fear the moobs!

[PaladinFreak]

You know, I think that this discussion is no longer usefull. Personally, I think that V is female, but V could just as easily be male. But really, this has degenerated to a "Uh huh" "Nuh uh" situation.

We can't resolve anything unless the Giant steps in, which he is not likely to do any time soon.
Let's just drop this untill we have solid evidence one way or another.

[fire_hawk]

I'm going to say that V is female, and only for one very simple reason.

Without much of a glance, one can tell that there is a great deal of similarity between Soon's group when they were going around to contain the snarl, and between our favorite Order of the Stick. If memory serves, in Soon's group, there were two females, the elf and the halfling. Yet, there is only one female (that we know of for certain) in The Order of the Stick, and that would be Hailey. So, simply for the sake of similarity, I say that V is also female.

:P It's a very silly theory, but I thought you all might get a laugh out of it anyway.

It's not silly at all. It's a very good point, and it's why I think V is female too. Ever since the crayon sequence and a post in the "What do YOU think the MitD is?" thread that pointed out how the whole comic may end, I've thought V was female.

[Dragonrider]

I think Vaarsuvius is female because (insert he/she/it) shares a room with Haley...

[zeratul]

i think V is a girl and Im a guy, I also think (s)he is chaotic neutral

[Skydiving_Ninja]

I think V's gender can only be surmised by first impressions. When I first started OotS, I saw V and thought male, probably with a pompous british accent. I never considered him to be female until Belkar muttered something about "stupid ambiguously gendered elf." But I still think V is male, because thats how I've always seen him.

[Haruki-kun]

Here are my arguments:

He:
His personality is more like that of a male. The intellectual and scholarly personality is most likly fit fo a male, as female characters, no matter how intelligent, usualy do not focus on it.
Most of the evil opposites from the Linear Guild were of the same gender (except Durkon and Hilgya).
The roots of Names ending in "us" are usually for males (though I'm not sure Vaarsuvius would count for that.
Even though he has that theory about Belkar's mind, he said he enchanted the muskrat for his personal amusement. Most likely males would do that.

She:
She rooms with Haley, so maybe the Order splits rooms in with men and women.
It's most likely Haley knows the truth. They trust each other and it would prove that they are best friends. Haley told herself about her secret how "even V doesn't know that one", and that was supposed to be a lot. Such trust relationships between friends are more commonly between same-gendered friends, usually females.
Celia went SHOPPING with V, and asked for her advice. Not only that, but V actually gave her reasonable advice. Very few Males, if any, do that.
V said she liked Judy Garland (quite recent).
In Origins, she accused Roy of being driven by Masculine Pride, which would be really weird if she was a he.

My Conclussion:
If I HAD to pick one, I'd say she's a she. But honestly, I hope we NEVER find out he truth. This is the oldest and most recurring joke, I mean, I don'treally wanna spoil it, y'know?

[Setra]

I think V's gender can only be surmised by first impressions. When I first started OotS, I saw V and thought male, probably with a pompous british accent. I never considered him to be female until Belkar muttered something about "stupid ambiguously gendered elf." But I still think V is male, because thats how I've always seen him.

I have always seen him as a male, I didn't even know there WAS a running gag about V's Gender, I thought what Belkar said was just the fact that many elves seem ambigously gendered.

This also made me confused when Nale was talking about Pompey

:nale: A Clearly defined gender, he IS an evil opposite.

Or something to that effect. V will always be Male to me, until it is said otherwise.

I only found out about the 'Gender Gag' when going to the forums the first time.

[teratorn]

I'm going to say that V is female, and only for one very simple reason.

Without much of a glance, one can tell that there is a great deal of similarity between Soon's group when they were going around to contain the snarl, and between our favorite Order of the Stick. If memory serves, in Soon's group, there were two females, the elf and the halfling. Yet, there is only one female (that we know of for certain) in The Order of the Stick, and that would be Hailey. So, simply for the sake of similarity, I say that V is also female.

:P It's a very silly theory, but I thought you all might get a laugh out of it anyway.

I wish I had thought of that, a very good, well reasoned theory. Shame on me, I was thinking female because she lied by about 30 years of age on her application form.

[Kalima]

I vote for Female

Couse in 385 Sabine calls her "sister"

[Setra]

I vote for Female

Couse in 385 Sabine calls her "sister"

Yeah but V has been called both Male AND Female, and many people have called me female, this does not make me female.