[PF] Greatest Hits of Pathfinder

[ArcanistSupreme]

I've seen a couple of "How would you rewrite the PHB?" threads floating around, and I was kind of wondering how that would look in Pathfinder. What classes would be your core eleven? What races and feats would you include? Why?

I'm not interested in fixing the system or deleting bad things, but in how you would compile a limited amount of the available choices to present to new players. What are the greatest hits of Pathfinder?

[Xyphileous Grey]

how you would compile a limited amount of the available choices to present to new players.I don't have the experience that most people on the forums do, but i think this question has a few un-asked questions of their own. Pathfinder is very diverse in the aspect of time.
You have pretty much anything from Aboriginal tribes and Aztecs (A lot of simple weapons point to this), to Weird west and Steampunk (Gunslinger/Alchemist). You would get a lot of mixed answers.
I don't really change the core a whole lot (Again, i'm not experienced enough) But what i will say is that most pathfinder classes are worthy of some time as a core class.
The reason pathfinders core classes are what they are is brand loyalty, If a D&D veteran picks up an RPG core rulebook and doesn't see wizard, fighter, cleric, and so on, he will look at it and think
"Is somebody really going to get rid of these classes?". When it come to races things get a bit easier, Everybody loves to play elves, everybody loves to play dwarves, everybody loves to play halflings.
But when you go up to someone and say "Wanna play a Wayang Blackguard!?" They will look at you like you are crazy.
(Though if he knew what a Wayang is and what a blackguard is he would do the same) But regardless, races are a flimsy part of the pathfinder.

[ArcanistSupreme]

What if fluff could be changed as well, in that case? So you could call an adept a cleric or a psion could be called a wizard? Then you'd still have the iconic classes without needing to be tied to specific classes "because that's D&D." The same goes for the races. If there's a race that represents a concept in a way that's mechanically superior or more interesting than one of the core races, why not just change the label?

On the flip side, is there any fluff that is just so good you would put it in your core book?

[Squirrel_Dude]

Are we only looking at Paizo products, or are we allowed to bring in 3rd party sources as well?

Anyway, assuming the latter, the 11 classes that I keep.
- Cleric
- Druid
- Sorcerer
- Oracle
- Psion
- Bard
- Magus
- Psychic Warrior
- Paladin
- Barbarian
- Soul Knife

Honorable Mentions:
1. Alchemist
2. Inquisitor
3. Ranger
4. Quiggong Monk

The theme here should be obvious. I like things that have some access to magic or some way to interact with magic. If you can't, you're playing a different game from everyone else. After that, I like to make sure the player at least has some kind of interesting and impactful decisions to make in how their character is constructed.

Saying those two things, I'll say that the Barbarian is on there because it would feel weird if the Paladin was the only tank on the list.

[navar100]

In no particular order . . .

Classes:

Barbarian, Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Witch, Sorcerer, Oracle, Druid, Magus, Bard, Paladin

Feats:

Power Attack, Deadly Aim and archery feats, Shield feats, Critical Hit feats, Class support (Extra Hex, Extra Revelation, Extra Rage Power, Selective Channeling, etc.), Deadly Stroke, Toughness

Spells:

Blessing of Fervor, Grace, Breath Of Life, Spell changes from 3E, new Paladin spells, new Bard spells

Prestige Classes:

Dragon Disciple, Mystic Theurge, Arcane Archer, Loremaster

Game concepts:

Archetypes, Traits, Improved Class HD, Favored Class Bonus, Improved Racial features

[Raven777]

Archetypes.
Consolidated Skills.
Increased HD for all classes.
Paladins can dump Wisdom.
Class Skills vs Skills reworked.
Sorcerer Bloodlines.

[Ravens_cry]

Are we only looking at Paizo products, or are we allowed to bring in 3rd party sources as well?

Anyway, assuming the latter, the 11 classes that I keep.
- Cleric
- Druid
- Sorcerer
- Oracle
- Psion
- Bard
- Magus
- Psychic Warrior
- Paladin
- Barbarian
- Soul Knife

Honorable Mentions:
1. Alchemist
2. Inquisitor
3. Ranger
4. Quiggong Monk

I am surprised Ninja isn't on the list. While they don't have a spell list, their abilities are plenty magical, more so than the Barbarian.

[Grod_The_Giant]

The revised skills/skill costs. (Except for fly. Never much saw the point in that)

[Squirrel_Dude]

I am surprised Ninja isn't on the list. While they don't have a spell list, their abilities are plenty magical, more so than the Barbarian. I thought about them, and the Barbarian is mostly on there because I felt it would be shame if there wasn't someone without magical powers (contradictory, I know), and I didn't want it to be the fighter.

I also think the rogue doesn't really have a role in Pathfinder, and in that way neither does the ninja.

[navar100]

The revised skills/skill costs. (Except for fly. Never much saw the point in that)

The fly skill is used to do acrobatics type stuff while in the air. While maneuverability is a factor (poor, bad, good, perfect) a skill check can compensate.

It is a skill tax nerf switcing from 3E, but I don't think it's a bad one. If anything lots of people complain about flying in 3E. Having spellcasters spending skill points on it is Pathfinder's way of "balancing" it. The Fly spell gives a bonus to the skill check. This way even if you don't put ranks into the skill you can still do basic movement. It's even good enough for the warriors if the spellcasters choose to buff them with the spell.

[137beth]

Are we only looking at Paizo products, or are we allowed to bring in 3rd party sources as well?

Anyway, assuming the latter, the 11 classes that I keep.
- Cleric
- Druid
- Sorcerer
- Oracle
- Psion
- Bard
- Magus
- Psychic Warrior
- Paladin
- Barbarian
- Soul Knife

Honorable Mentions:
1. Alchemist
2. Inquisitor
3. Ranger
4. Quiggong Monk

The theme here should be obvious. I like things that have some access to magic or some way to interact with magic. If you can't, you're playing a different game from everyone else. After that, I like to make sure the player at least has some kind of interesting and impactful decisions to make in how their character is constructed.

Saying those two things, I'll say that the Barbarian is on there because it would feel weird if the Paladin was the only tank on the list.

I'd replace psychic warrior on that list with Warlord from PoW. Other than that I agree.

[Squirrel_Dude]

I should add that the soul knife and the alchemist are really close to trading in my mind right now. Alchemist is such an interesting class, compared to the soul knife who really does only have one (albeit neat) trick.

I should also be clear that I'm making my list with the idea that Paragon Surge doesn't exist.

[IronFist]

I should add that the soul knife and the alchemist are really close to trading in my mind right now. Alchemist is such an interesting class, compared to the soul knife who really does only have one (albeit neat) trick.

One trick (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife/blade-skills)? :smallconfused:

[Squirrel_Dude]

One trick (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife/blade-skills)? :smallconfused:Their one trick is a really cool ability to do a bunch of different stuff with their mindblade. As someone else has observed, you could have 4 alchemists in a party, and they would all be extremely different characters.

But like I said, they are very close.

[3WhiteFox3]

Their one trick is a really cool ability to do a bunch of different stuff with their mindblade. As someone else has observed, you could have 4 alchemists in a party, and they would all be extremely different characters.

Just to illustrate this point.

1. Mindchemist Mad Bomber.
2. Vivisectionist Beastmorph Mr. Hyde.
3. Planar Preservationist General Alchemist.
4. Grenadier Archery focused Alchemist.

And their are other, legitimately strong ways to build the alchemist, even without archetypes. It's just a very versatile class.

That said, the Soul Knife also has some great archetypes (Deadly Fist and Gifted Blade especially)

[IronFist]

Their one trick is a really cool ability to do a bunch of different stuff with their mindblade. As someone else has observed, you could have 4 alchemists in a party, and they would all be extremely different characters.

Alchemists being versatile does not mean much when it comes to a Soulknives' versatility. Saying their only trick is 'doing stuff with their mindblade' is like saying a Wizard's only trick is 'doing stuff with spells'. :smallwink:

[Grod_The_Giant]

Alchemists being versatile does not mean much when it comes to a Soulknives' versatility. Saying their only trick is 'doing stuff with their mindblade' is like a Wizard's only trick is 'doing stuff with spells'. :smallwink:
Still, a Soulknife is like a Warblade-- he's got lots of tricks in-combat, but nothing really good outside of a fight.

[IronFist]

Still, a Soulknife is like a Warblade-- he's got lots of tricks in-combat, but nothing really good outside of a fight.
Very close to being completely true (there is the Gifted Blade archetype, after all) but still immaterial to my point. All I'm disputing is that Soulknives don't have "just one trick".

[Squirrel_Dude]

Very close to being completely true (there is the Gifted Blade archetype, after all) but still immaterial to my point. All I'm disputing is that Soulknives don't have "just one trick".I probably should have said that they only have one area of expertise. Combat. One area that they have a diverse set of skills in, but one area.

[IronFist]

I probably should have said that they only have one area of expertise. Combat. One area that they have a diverse set of skills in, but one area.
Well said, my friend.