Half Ogre-Half Ogre Were-Triceratops

[visigani]

(Hybrid Form)
Size: Huge
Str: +30
Dex: -2
Con: +16
Int: -4
Wis: +2
Cha: -4
Natural Armor: +11
10/Silver
Low Light Vision
Scent
+5 Level Adjustment

Does this seem acceptable for a +5 Level adjustment?

[Volcan]

hmm i say that is an interesting idea

[Scumbaggery]

Acceptable or not, this is gold.

[ShurikVch]

:smallsigh: You are completely forgot about 17 racial HD.
This creature is [epic] without single class level! :smallcool:

EDIT: Triceratops is herbivore, your monster is illegal

[Karnith]

Bear in mind that, as a Were-Triceratops, you'll get the +2 or +3 level adjustment from being a lycanthrope in addition to the 16 Animal Hit Dice that you'll get from being a Were-Triceratops, so piling that on top of being a Half-Ogre Half-Ogre you're looking an ECL 22 character, minimum.

[visigani]

:smallsigh: You are completely forgot about 17 racial HD.
This creature is [epic] without single class level! :smallcool:

EDIT: Triceratops is herbivore, your monster is illegal

Uh, so are Boars....

[Tvtyrant]

Play patty-cake with a ghoul, and use LA buyoff. Now you are a decent melee character who looks cool.

[visigani]

Bear in mind that, as a Were-Triceratops, you'll get the +2 or +3 level adjustment from being a lycanthrope in addition to the 16 Animal Hit Dice that you'll get from being a Were-Triceratops, so piling that on top of being a Half-Ogre Half-Ogre you're looking an ECL 22 character, minimum.

Hmmm, I could probably pare it down some....

[Zombulian]

Uh, so are Boars....

Untrue actually. Boars are omnivores.

Also I'm confused as there is probably a joke I'm not getting with this? Because otherwise it is in no way worth it.
Effigy Incarnate Construct the Half-Ogre Half-Ogre and be infected instead of inherited. I think that brings it down to 2 LA. With the patty-cake idea, that becomes much more playable.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Does this seem acceptable for a +5 Level adjustment?

As others have pointed out, you have 16 animal hit dice (basically levels in the animal class (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#animalType)) which are not optional, and count toward your character level. You also must have one class level per the Lycanthrope template. LA +5/ Animal 16/ (class) 1 is a level 22 character. This is not even playable at that level, not only would you be incapable of making a contribution to the rest of the party, your character would be a huge liability and you would need to set aside tens of thousands of gold just so they could resurrect you.

Don't try to mention negative level shenanigans to get rid of those racial HD. An adult of that race has those hit dice, if you somehow lose them then your next levels gained must be spent to regain them. They are not optional.

Furthermore, you cannot make a Half-Ogre Ogre, an ogre with two ogre parents makes another ogre. That's like trying to make a Red Dragon with the Half-Dragon (Red) template, it is biologically impossible. Finally, someone else already pointed out that a Triceratops is a herbivore, and a Lycanthrope may only use a predator, scavenger, or omnivore as the base animal.


A better course of action would be Water Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfWater), Half-Minotaur, Half-Goristro (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630x&page=1). That has a +5 LA and no racial hit dice, for the following benefits:

Huge size
Str +32
Dex -4
Con +20
Int -4
Wis -2
Cha -2
Natural armor +12
Land speed 40 ft., Swim speed 40 ft.
Natural weapons: Two Slams primary 1d8 huge and each one counts as a two-handed weapon, Gore secondary 2d6 huge

DR 10/Good or Cold Iron
Immunity to poison
Resistance to acid 10, cold 10, electricity 10, and fire 10
Darkvision 60 ft.
Low-Light Vision
Scent
Spell Resistance
Spell-Like Abilities (replace some of the default Half-Fiend list with Levitate, See Invisibility, and Fear, matching spell levels with those repalced)
Race of Water traits (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfWater)
Half-Minotaur traits (+2 Listen, Search, and Spot, bonus feat Track, bonus vs Maze and similar)
Orc traits (light sensitivity)

Additionally, an Orc plus a half-template can technically qualify for anything with Half-Orc as a prerequisite. For example, the feat Menacing Demeanor which gives +4 Intimidate and you can gain it for 3,000 gp instead of spending a feat on it (CS), as well as Half-Orc Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#halfOrcParagon) which gives another +4 Intimidate at the first level. Look through the Fear Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809.0) to see why this is so good.

[Zombulian]

As others have pointed out, you have 16 animal hit dice (basically levels in the animal class (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#animalType)) which are not optional, and count toward your character level. You also must have one class level per the Lycanthrope template. LA +5/ Animal 16/ (class) 1 is a level 22 character. This is not even playable at that level, not only would you be incapable of making a contribution to the rest of the party, your character would be a huge liability and you would need to set aside tens of thousands of gold just so they could resurrect you.

Don't try to mention negative level shenanigans to get rid of those racial HD. An adult of that race has those hit dice, if you somehow lose them then your next levels gained must be spent to regain them. They are not optional.

Furthermore, you cannot make a Half-Ogre Ogre, an ogre with two ogre parents makes another ogre. That's like trying to make a Red Dragon with the Half-Dragon (Red) template, it is biologically impossible. Finally, someone else already pointed out that a Triceratops is a herbivore, and a Lycanthrope may only use a predator, scavenger, or omnivore as the base animal.


A better course of action would be Water Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfWater), Half-Minotaur, Half-Goristro (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630x&page=1). That has a +5 LA and no racial hit dice, for the following benefits:

Huge size
Str +32
Dex -4
Con +20
Int -4
Wis -2
Cha -2
Natural armor +12
Land speed 40 ft., Swim speed 40 ft.
Natural weapons: Two Slams primary 1d8 huge and each one counts as a two-handed weapon, Gore secondary 2d6 huge

DR 10/Good or Cold Iron
Immunity to poison
Resistance to acid 10, cold 10, electricity 10, and fire 10
Darkvision 60 ft.
Low-Light Vision
Scent
Spell Resistance
Spell-Like Abilities (replace some of the default Half-Fiend list with Levitate, See Invisibility, and Fear, matching spell levels with those repalced)
Race of Water traits (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfWater)
Half-Minotaur traits (+2 Listen, Search, and Spot, bonus feat Track, bonus vs Maze and similar)
Orc traits (light sensitivity)

Additionally, an Orc plus a half-template can technically qualify for anything with Half-Orc as a prerequisite. For example, the feat Menacing Demeanor which gives +4 Intimidate and you can gain it for 3,000 gp instead of spending a feat on it (CS), as well as Half-Orc Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#halfOrcParagon) which gives another +4 Intimidate at the first level. Look through the Fear Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809.0) to see why this is so good.

You can stack the Half-Ogre template on that for no LA.

[Invader]

As others have pointed out, you have 16 animal hit dice (basically levels in the animal class (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#animalType)) which are not optional, and count toward your character level. You also must have one class level per the Lycanthrope template. LA +5/ Animal 16/ (class) 1 is a level 22 character. This is not even playable at that level, not only would you be incapable of making a contribution to the rest of the party, your character would be a huge liability and you would need to set aside tens of thousands of gold just so they could resurrect you.

Don't try to mention negative level shenanigans to get rid of those racial HD. An adult of that race has those hit dice, if you somehow lose them then your next levels gained must be spent to regain them. They are not optional.

Furthermore, you cannot make a Half-Ogre Ogre, an ogre with two ogre parents makes another ogre. That's like trying to make a Red Dragon with the Half-Dragon (Red) template, it is biologically impossible. Finally, someone else already pointed out that a Triceratops is a herbivore, and a Lycanthrope may only use a predator, scavenger, or omnivore as the base animal.


A better course of action would be Water Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfWater), Half-Minotaur, Half-Goristro (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630x&page=1). That has a +5 LA and no racial hit dice, for the following benefits:

Huge size
Str +32
Dex -4
Con +20
Int -4
Wis -2
Cha -2
Natural armor +12
Land speed 40 ft., Swim speed 40 ft.
Natural weapons: Two Slams primary 1d8 huge and each one counts as a two-handed weapon, Gore secondary 2d6 huge

DR 10/Good or Cold Iron
Immunity to poison
Resistance to acid 10, cold 10, electricity 10, and fire 10
Darkvision 60 ft.
Low-Light Vision
Scent
Spell Resistance
Spell-Like Abilities (replace some of the default Half-Fiend list with Levitate, See Invisibility, and Fear, matching spell levels with those repalced)
Race of Water traits (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfWater)
Half-Minotaur traits (+2 Listen, Search, and Spot, bonus feat Track, bonus vs Maze and similar)
Orc traits (light sensitivity)

Additionally, an Orc plus a half-template can technically qualify for anything with Half-Orc as a prerequisite. For example, the feat Menacing Demeanor which gives +4 Intimidate and you can gain it for 3,000 gp instead of spending a feat on it (CS), as well as Half-Orc Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#halfOrcParagon) which gives another +4 Intimidate at the first level. Look through the Fear Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809.0) to see why this is so good.

I followed the link but I'm not seeing the crazy stats you posted.

[*.*.*.*]

I followed the link but I'm not seeing the crazy stats you posted.

Strength:
Water Orc:+4
Half-fiend:+8
Medium->Huge:+16
Half-Minotaur:+4

Con:
Water Orc:+2
Half-Fiend:+8
Medium->Huge:+8
Half-Minotaur:+2

[Invader]

Strength:
Water Orc:+4
Half-fiend:+8
Medium->Huge:+16
Half-Minotaur:+4

Con:
Water Orc:+2
Half-Fiend:+8
Medium->Huge:+8
Half-Minotaur. -Minotaur:+2

Right in the stat block it lists it as huge with a plus +8 strength. Wouldn't one assume the size bonus is already included and not added in again with the size.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Right in the stat block it lists it as huge with a plus +8 strength. Wouldn't one assume the size bonus is already included and not added in again with the size.

Not sure what you're talking about, unless you think I meant to use the actual creature Goristro, which I didn't. I linked the Variant Half-Fiend (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630x&page=1) to be based on a Goristro parent, which would make the Half-Fiend template grant Str +8, Con +8, and a size increase.

Edit: If you mean the example Goristro/Centaur Combination, you can see:
Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +8, Dex +0, Con +6, Int +0, Cha +2*; a size increase also changes the following: Str +8, Dex -2, Con +4

That's Str +8 for Half-Fiend (Goristro), and Str +8 for a size increase to Huge.

That it presumes Half-Fiend (Goristro) would give Str +8, Con +6, Cha +2 is downright silly, a Goristro's ability scores are Str 34, Dex 8, Con 27, Int 5, Wis 15, Cha 13, for ability modifiers of Str +24, Dex -2, Con +16, Int -6, Wis +4, Cha +2. Ignoring the penalties and Wisdom, Str +24, Con +16, Cha +2. You can't add more than +8 to any one stat, so Str +8, and the remaining +8 would be split between the Con at +16 and the Cha at +2, since the Con bonus is eight times higher than the Cha bonus even a +7/+1 split wouldn't do it justice, the full +8 should go to Con. Granted reducing Con by two points to add +2 Cha wouldn't be a bad idea if going for an intimidation/fear build, so either way it works out fine.

[Invader]

Not sure what you're talking about,less you think I meant to use the actual creature Goristro, which I didn't. I linked the Variant Half-Fiend (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630x&page=1) to be based on a Goristro parent, which would make the Half-Fiend template grant Str +8, Con +8, and a size increase.

Wouldn't it only increase 1 size and why wouldn't you have to include RHD of the fiend though?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Wouldn't it only increase 1 size and why wouldn't you have to include RHD of the fiend though?

The Base Creature is a Water Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfWater), an Orc has no racial HD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/orc.htm). Neither Half-Minotuar from Dragon 313 nor Half-Fiend in any form add racial HD to the base creature. The example Goristro/Centaur Combination in that article only has the four racial HD that a Centaur normally gets. Nothing I used adds any racial HD.

[Invader]

The Base Creature is a Water Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfWater), an Orc has no racial HD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/orc.htm). Neither Half-Minotuar from Dragon 313 nor Half-Fiend in any form add racial HD to the base creature. The example Goristro/Centaur Combination in that article only has the four racial HD that a Centaur normally gets. Nothing I used adds any racial HD.

Wouldn't it still only increase 1 size though?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Wouldn't it still only increase 1 size though?

Half-Minotaur increases your size, up to large. That Half-Fiend variant increases your size, up to huge. That's two size increases.

[Invader]

Half-Minotaur ur increases your size, up to large. That Half-Fiend variant increases your size, up to huge. That's two size increases.

Ahh I see how you're putting it together now.

[RedWarlock]

I don't think you get size-based changes to str and con when you template up the size like that. Page ref please?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I don't think you get size-based changes to str and con when you template up the size like that. Page ref please?

Dragon issue 313, page 94, Half-Minotaur template under Size and Type:
The base creature's type does not change. If the base creature is of Small or Medium size, it gains one size category, becoming Medium or Large respectively. See Table 4-2: Changes to Statistics by Size in the Monster Manual for changes to the base creature when it gains a size category. The changes in this template are in addition to the changes outlined there.

From the Variant Half-Fiend (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630x&page=1) article I've already linked multiple times, under Size and Type:
If the model fiend is Huge size or bigger, and the base creature is size Large or smaller, then increase the base creature's size by one category. The relevant changes to the base creature's statistics can be found on page 291 of the Monster Manual.

[Keld Denar]

Uh, so are Boars....

Be wary of any man who owns a pig farm. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyEBXTL1Y3U)

A single pig could consume about 2 pounds of uncooked human flesh every minute.

Herbivore? I think not.