Kaemon
2013-09-29, 04:26 AM
Hello there everyone, and thanks in advance for your help.
So, long story short, I'm having some problems upon deciding what system to use for playing a RPG with my friends. Should I play D&D? Should I try to improve and use my custom system again? Do you have a better idea/solution for me?
A "Little" Backstory:
I have always loved RPG since the first time I tried one (the famous Zanzer's Dungeon). I remember being a kid and not understanding many of the rules I was reading on the book included in the "board game", and also not having any clue at all how spells worked (back in that day it made no sense to me that the mage could only cast like 1 spell a day, and it made even less sense being able to cast his memorized spells nonstop).
Afterwards everytime I played was mostly using my own systems, rules, characters and sheets, but always loved D&D nonetheless.
My own games contained mostly a mixture between D&D and Blizzard's Diablo, so classes/races would have different stats on STR/DEX/INT, they would be able to increase those by freely allocating points when leveling (those granting increased Damage/Evasion/etc) and most of the weapons and equipment would have requisites, like a Long Sword would require 10 STR and 10 DEX, and a Two Handed Axe 20 STR (just as an example).
I had lots of fun with those systems (every time we started a campaign it would be a new, edited or polished version); but being honest, they were never really very good (and a couple that were played longer than average showed huge balance issues that required buffing or nerfing; but I'm not completely against that when necessary). However, I liked them and I'm still thinking about using my "own" system once again.
Then, I didn't play any RPG for the longest time, until recently (around 1 year ago) a friend decided to buy on Ebay the board game Hero Quest along all the official campaigns; so we started gathering and playing that (as always I was the GM, is what I do).
But, being honest here, and hopefully not hurning any Hero Quest fan, biut the game is "meh" and "too basic" at best. When playing it (if you follow all or most of the book rules) it feels more like playing chess or checkers than a real RPG game... And even if some of the rules can be blended and use some imagination to allow special things to happen, the game itself is very limited and almost impossible to expand upon because of the dice system it uses (and changing that can be considered as not playing Hero Quest anymore).
Anyway, we were pretty much done with the campaigns and because of studies and work and whatnot we kinda stopped playing. And a couple of days ago I was checking (not for the first time, but apparently for the first in a long time) for options to play online. That is when I discovered both MapTool and Roll20.
Both those tools (for those that don't know them) allow and help you creating maps, scenarios and characters to play good old RPGs online with your friends (or strangers!) and we are going to give it a try (probably later today).
MapTool felt like it could be the better option, but we couldn't manage to connect each other because of some problems and when googling for the solution too many possible causes showed (including the possibility of having to install an older version of Java) so we settled for Roll20. Not only we were already "playing" only 20 seconds after starting to create our accounts, but after using/learning it for less that a day I already feel very comfortable with it.
The only "problems" I encountered is that all players must be in the same "map" at the same time, sharing vision (unless you donate for dynamic lightning) and that unlike MapTool, there doesn't seem to exist any kind of "Path Tracker" for walking.
(If you know solutions to those, or you really think you know how to help me getting MapTool to work (allow to connect players) and really think is superior, directions for that would also be appreciated).
I have already made a test map using Zanzer's Dungeon board as the layout as a wink to nostalgia; and I believe the only player that ever played it will take a long time to recognize it because of the fog of war and the many things I changed.
So far I haven't decided on a system yet, but I'm ready to use something very simple for this first test run and add the "real rules" later.
So far what I have ready includes basic things on the lines of you have X HP, X Armor, 1d20 for Armor/Hit, +0 to all kind of hit, damage, evasion or whatever rolls; and the equipment I included (they start with none, in a cell) is very straight forward (+1 Armor, 1d6 damage, +3 armor -1 movement, etc...) and that is more than enough for this test run; but I really need to get something more serious ready for future sessions...
The Real Question:
Right now I don't have access to any D&D book nor a way of getting one in the near future, neither for GM nor Player; and even if I remember the very basics, is not enough for playing "seriously" or "properly". Also, I was never a big fan of the more overcomplicated part of some D&D rules; and I'm certainly not up for adding hundreds of sub-classes, advanced-classed and other weird stuff that I never read about but mentioned on forums.
Is there such thing as a "basic but efficient D&D rule-set" that is enough for playing a good and balanced campaign for years to come? Can I get a link or some directions for that?
If not, and/or if I still decide to use my own D&D/Diablo mixture set of rules, should I post my ideas/rules on the Homebrew subforum? Would I get some attention/help in there? You think I should do it anyway, even if I end up playing D&D?
Also another main problem I encountered is that I never had any kind of "advanced rules" (like a real spell progression). Just stats increasing your Damage/Hit/Evasion/Similar and some homemade feats.
Most of the time when doing a Saving Throw (like trying to jump over a big hole), I wouldn't even know what kind of result the players needed: I would just take into account what race/class/stats they had, what they were wearing/carrying and then tell them to roll 1d100. On 1-10 it was pretty obvious that they felt, on 90-100 it was pretty obvious that they jumped it with no problems, but... Where to draw the line? How? Is it usually a good idea to let players know the exact result they need to jump the hole successfully? Should they know how much damage they can receive upon falling into the hole (granted they can see the bottom)? What about saving to not get paralyzed by the touch of a silly lich, should they know what result they need as well before rolling the dice?
Oh, and an extra mini-question: What rolls do you think I should make (as a GM) and what rolls should the players make?
This chest has 2d6x100 coins, should be a Player-Who-Opens roll? A GM-Roll? A GM-Secret-Roll?
What about that room with 1d4 Gnolls? Or with the spell that enemy casted that has a 25% chance of summoning a demon?
Anyway, any kind of help will be appreciated, even if its not directly related to my main issues.
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EDIT 1, 10 Oct 2013, Post #14:
Thanks all for your help. If you are curious we finally settled for Pathfinder. I found a great site in Spanish (so all my players can read it) and I also found lots of things for myself (like a huge creature listing) in english.
Sounds about right to me, "Classic" D&D 3.5 that has been further refined, balanced and tweaked. It simplifies some things (like having Perception instead of Listen/Spot/etc) and spices things up for some classes and some levels and what not.
However, I'm not so sure about this Barbarian one of my players made...
Right now they are Lv1 and fighting against some small groups of goblins. Those have +1/3 BAB (Melee/Ranged), 16 AC (15-14 if no shield/armor) and deal around 1d4 damage.
The Barbarian in the group has 19 STR at L1 wich gives him +4 on Attack and Damage with melee weapons (there seem to be no limits on stats, so I guess at Lv4 he can get 20 STR for +5). As one of his two starting feats (he is human) he choose Power Attack (a classic)... He is using a 1d12 2H Axe I gave him (before knowing what rule set we were going to use) but seems to be an average 2H weapon for the game.
So he has: +1 (BAB) + 4 (STR) + (-1) (Power Attack) to hit.
And for damage: 1d12 (Weapon) +6 (150% STR for using 2H) + (+3 Power Attack).
So, at Lv1, when using Power Attack, he has +4 To Hit and 1d12+9 Damage.
Is that correct? Is that normal? Seems a little out of the chart to me.
Not to mention that he is a Barbarian, and when he rages he gets futher +4 STR that gives him +2 Hit and +3 Damage with his 2Hander Melee Weapon, and when he does so his damage goes up to 13 to 24 on a confirmed hit (non crit); he can pretty much, if the dice helps hitting (and the +7(-1) to Hit with Power Attack while in Rage helps a lot), one-hit any CR1 I can throw at him. Opinions/Suggestions?
Also, is a Crit (after confirmed with a 2nd roll) just double the damage on a normal weapon? Would he crit for 48 freaking damage if he did rolled 12 (+12) on the damage roll while he is using Rage? Or do some of the stats/damages don't get doubled on crits?
If I understood correctly Pathfinder allows you (as a human) to put 2 points on a stat (he changed his 17 STR to 19), and PowerAttack does -1 Hit for +2 Damage (+3 if 2 Hander), and STR is calculated 150% for 2HandWeapons damage.
BTW, his HP also seems a little out of the chart, tell me if I did everything okay:
12 (1d12 Hit Dice) + 2 (15 CON) + 1 (Barbarian Favored Class) + 3 (Toughness Feat, gives 1 Extra HP per level, but +3 minimum) for a total of 18 HP at Level 1. Still, I'm more worried about his 13-24 base damage on any confirmed hit.
BTW, how do you deal with players that keep throwing torches in the middle of the room to have both hands available for battle? You make them cause only "shadowy light", reduce by half the illumination, just allow normally, or what?
And if I understood correctly, Pathfinder doesn't has any XP Reduction/Penalty for Class, Race or Multiclassing? Is there a Class-Limit when multiclassing? It sounds like I could be a Lv10 with 1 Lv on 10 classes. Not that it seems to be the best idea, but seems too easy to Multiclass to me.
Also, if I'm a Multiclass Lv2 Barbarian/Ranger, I get +1 BAB +1 BAB for +2 BAB; right? They just add up, don't they?
And a last question. I'm not sure about the treasures/gold/XP I should give the players, as I haven't studied the CR/XP charts yet (they seem a little complicated). What do you think it should be the average XP/Gold/MagicItems (if any) for 3-4 Lv1 chars killing small groups of 6-12 Goblins?
Oh, and also: for asking further questions about Pathfinder, should I use the D&D3/3.5/d20 Forum, or the "Others" forum (here)?
So, long story short, I'm having some problems upon deciding what system to use for playing a RPG with my friends. Should I play D&D? Should I try to improve and use my custom system again? Do you have a better idea/solution for me?
A "Little" Backstory:
I have always loved RPG since the first time I tried one (the famous Zanzer's Dungeon). I remember being a kid and not understanding many of the rules I was reading on the book included in the "board game", and also not having any clue at all how spells worked (back in that day it made no sense to me that the mage could only cast like 1 spell a day, and it made even less sense being able to cast his memorized spells nonstop).
Afterwards everytime I played was mostly using my own systems, rules, characters and sheets, but always loved D&D nonetheless.
My own games contained mostly a mixture between D&D and Blizzard's Diablo, so classes/races would have different stats on STR/DEX/INT, they would be able to increase those by freely allocating points when leveling (those granting increased Damage/Evasion/etc) and most of the weapons and equipment would have requisites, like a Long Sword would require 10 STR and 10 DEX, and a Two Handed Axe 20 STR (just as an example).
I had lots of fun with those systems (every time we started a campaign it would be a new, edited or polished version); but being honest, they were never really very good (and a couple that were played longer than average showed huge balance issues that required buffing or nerfing; but I'm not completely against that when necessary). However, I liked them and I'm still thinking about using my "own" system once again.
Then, I didn't play any RPG for the longest time, until recently (around 1 year ago) a friend decided to buy on Ebay the board game Hero Quest along all the official campaigns; so we started gathering and playing that (as always I was the GM, is what I do).
But, being honest here, and hopefully not hurning any Hero Quest fan, biut the game is "meh" and "too basic" at best. When playing it (if you follow all or most of the book rules) it feels more like playing chess or checkers than a real RPG game... And even if some of the rules can be blended and use some imagination to allow special things to happen, the game itself is very limited and almost impossible to expand upon because of the dice system it uses (and changing that can be considered as not playing Hero Quest anymore).
Anyway, we were pretty much done with the campaigns and because of studies and work and whatnot we kinda stopped playing. And a couple of days ago I was checking (not for the first time, but apparently for the first in a long time) for options to play online. That is when I discovered both MapTool and Roll20.
Both those tools (for those that don't know them) allow and help you creating maps, scenarios and characters to play good old RPGs online with your friends (or strangers!) and we are going to give it a try (probably later today).
MapTool felt like it could be the better option, but we couldn't manage to connect each other because of some problems and when googling for the solution too many possible causes showed (including the possibility of having to install an older version of Java) so we settled for Roll20. Not only we were already "playing" only 20 seconds after starting to create our accounts, but after using/learning it for less that a day I already feel very comfortable with it.
The only "problems" I encountered is that all players must be in the same "map" at the same time, sharing vision (unless you donate for dynamic lightning) and that unlike MapTool, there doesn't seem to exist any kind of "Path Tracker" for walking.
(If you know solutions to those, or you really think you know how to help me getting MapTool to work (allow to connect players) and really think is superior, directions for that would also be appreciated).
I have already made a test map using Zanzer's Dungeon board as the layout as a wink to nostalgia; and I believe the only player that ever played it will take a long time to recognize it because of the fog of war and the many things I changed.
So far I haven't decided on a system yet, but I'm ready to use something very simple for this first test run and add the "real rules" later.
So far what I have ready includes basic things on the lines of you have X HP, X Armor, 1d20 for Armor/Hit, +0 to all kind of hit, damage, evasion or whatever rolls; and the equipment I included (they start with none, in a cell) is very straight forward (+1 Armor, 1d6 damage, +3 armor -1 movement, etc...) and that is more than enough for this test run; but I really need to get something more serious ready for future sessions...
The Real Question:
Right now I don't have access to any D&D book nor a way of getting one in the near future, neither for GM nor Player; and even if I remember the very basics, is not enough for playing "seriously" or "properly". Also, I was never a big fan of the more overcomplicated part of some D&D rules; and I'm certainly not up for adding hundreds of sub-classes, advanced-classed and other weird stuff that I never read about but mentioned on forums.
Is there such thing as a "basic but efficient D&D rule-set" that is enough for playing a good and balanced campaign for years to come? Can I get a link or some directions for that?
If not, and/or if I still decide to use my own D&D/Diablo mixture set of rules, should I post my ideas/rules on the Homebrew subforum? Would I get some attention/help in there? You think I should do it anyway, even if I end up playing D&D?
Also another main problem I encountered is that I never had any kind of "advanced rules" (like a real spell progression). Just stats increasing your Damage/Hit/Evasion/Similar and some homemade feats.
Most of the time when doing a Saving Throw (like trying to jump over a big hole), I wouldn't even know what kind of result the players needed: I would just take into account what race/class/stats they had, what they were wearing/carrying and then tell them to roll 1d100. On 1-10 it was pretty obvious that they felt, on 90-100 it was pretty obvious that they jumped it with no problems, but... Where to draw the line? How? Is it usually a good idea to let players know the exact result they need to jump the hole successfully? Should they know how much damage they can receive upon falling into the hole (granted they can see the bottom)? What about saving to not get paralyzed by the touch of a silly lich, should they know what result they need as well before rolling the dice?
Oh, and an extra mini-question: What rolls do you think I should make (as a GM) and what rolls should the players make?
This chest has 2d6x100 coins, should be a Player-Who-Opens roll? A GM-Roll? A GM-Secret-Roll?
What about that room with 1d4 Gnolls? Or with the spell that enemy casted that has a 25% chance of summoning a demon?
Anyway, any kind of help will be appreciated, even if its not directly related to my main issues.
---------- ---------- ---------- ---------- ---------- ---------- ---------- ---------- ---------- ----------
EDIT 1, 10 Oct 2013, Post #14:
Thanks all for your help. If you are curious we finally settled for Pathfinder. I found a great site in Spanish (so all my players can read it) and I also found lots of things for myself (like a huge creature listing) in english.
Sounds about right to me, "Classic" D&D 3.5 that has been further refined, balanced and tweaked. It simplifies some things (like having Perception instead of Listen/Spot/etc) and spices things up for some classes and some levels and what not.
However, I'm not so sure about this Barbarian one of my players made...
Right now they are Lv1 and fighting against some small groups of goblins. Those have +1/3 BAB (Melee/Ranged), 16 AC (15-14 if no shield/armor) and deal around 1d4 damage.
The Barbarian in the group has 19 STR at L1 wich gives him +4 on Attack and Damage with melee weapons (there seem to be no limits on stats, so I guess at Lv4 he can get 20 STR for +5). As one of his two starting feats (he is human) he choose Power Attack (a classic)... He is using a 1d12 2H Axe I gave him (before knowing what rule set we were going to use) but seems to be an average 2H weapon for the game.
So he has: +1 (BAB) + 4 (STR) + (-1) (Power Attack) to hit.
And for damage: 1d12 (Weapon) +6 (150% STR for using 2H) + (+3 Power Attack).
So, at Lv1, when using Power Attack, he has +4 To Hit and 1d12+9 Damage.
Is that correct? Is that normal? Seems a little out of the chart to me.
Not to mention that he is a Barbarian, and when he rages he gets futher +4 STR that gives him +2 Hit and +3 Damage with his 2Hander Melee Weapon, and when he does so his damage goes up to 13 to 24 on a confirmed hit (non crit); he can pretty much, if the dice helps hitting (and the +7(-1) to Hit with Power Attack while in Rage helps a lot), one-hit any CR1 I can throw at him. Opinions/Suggestions?
Also, is a Crit (after confirmed with a 2nd roll) just double the damage on a normal weapon? Would he crit for 48 freaking damage if he did rolled 12 (+12) on the damage roll while he is using Rage? Or do some of the stats/damages don't get doubled on crits?
If I understood correctly Pathfinder allows you (as a human) to put 2 points on a stat (he changed his 17 STR to 19), and PowerAttack does -1 Hit for +2 Damage (+3 if 2 Hander), and STR is calculated 150% for 2HandWeapons damage.
BTW, his HP also seems a little out of the chart, tell me if I did everything okay:
12 (1d12 Hit Dice) + 2 (15 CON) + 1 (Barbarian Favored Class) + 3 (Toughness Feat, gives 1 Extra HP per level, but +3 minimum) for a total of 18 HP at Level 1. Still, I'm more worried about his 13-24 base damage on any confirmed hit.
BTW, how do you deal with players that keep throwing torches in the middle of the room to have both hands available for battle? You make them cause only "shadowy light", reduce by half the illumination, just allow normally, or what?
And if I understood correctly, Pathfinder doesn't has any XP Reduction/Penalty for Class, Race or Multiclassing? Is there a Class-Limit when multiclassing? It sounds like I could be a Lv10 with 1 Lv on 10 classes. Not that it seems to be the best idea, but seems too easy to Multiclass to me.
Also, if I'm a Multiclass Lv2 Barbarian/Ranger, I get +1 BAB +1 BAB for +2 BAB; right? They just add up, don't they?
And a last question. I'm not sure about the treasures/gold/XP I should give the players, as I haven't studied the CR/XP charts yet (they seem a little complicated). What do you think it should be the average XP/Gold/MagicItems (if any) for 3-4 Lv1 chars killing small groups of 6-12 Goblins?
Oh, and also: for asking further questions about Pathfinder, should I use the D&D3/3.5/d20 Forum, or the "Others" forum (here)?