Atropol regeneration/undeadness...

[Zorgoth]

The Atropol as described in http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#atropal has Regeneration 20, and takes "normal damage" from good aligned weapons. What does this mean? Regeneration turns normal damage into nonlethal damage, to which an Atropol is immune because it is undead. Does that mean that the Atropol is immune to all damage that is not good aligned? That would seem a little excessive. So what is the correct way to think about this? I can see four ways that it could be interpreted without completely negating the idea that good weapons are different:

1) Literal text of the rules as far as I can tell: Atropol is immune to all damage except for good aligned weapons. Doesn't actually heal any damage because it heals 20 nonlethal damage every turn, but it is impossible for it to have any.

2) Treat regeneration as fast healing, but don't allow it to heal damage from good aligned weapons. The Atropol is destroyed at zero hp regardless of source of damage.

3) Treat regeneration as fast healing, but don't allow it to heal damage from good aligned weapons. The Atropol must take it's maximum hit point total in good aligned damage to be destroyed, but it is disabled if it reaches zero hp in normal damage.

4) Treat regeneration as fast healing, but don't allow it to heal damage from good aligned weapons. The Atropol is disabled at zero hp, but the killing blow must be made with a good-aligned weapon to destroy it. Possibly allow a coup de grace even though it's undead?

[TuggyNE]

The Atropal's regeneration is a known dysfunction, yes; it's a casualty of the 3.0-to-3.5 update. #2 on your list is probably the simplest fix for it.

[Silva Stormrage]

Its an epic level monster so I don't mind going with #1 if I want it to be a credible threat by itself. Still its pretty much up to the DM to interpret how he wants to deal with it.

I think RAW what happens is that the Atropal just loses the regeneration. From the SRD you lose regeneration if you don't have a con score. Similarly that an awakened troll zombie doesn't gain its regeneration back despite an awakened hydra zombie gains its fast healing back.

[eggynack]

Its an epic level monster so I don't mind going with #1 if I want it to be a credible threat by itself.
I agree with that. I mean, what is the atropal going to actually do against its presumed level 30 opponents? Being nearly impervious to damage probably isn't going to make it a threat, but it's a start.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

If your level 30 party can't pull out a good-aligned weapon on a whim then something's seriously wrong. I'd just give the ol' thing #1, especially since all its attacks (other than summoning the crawlers) can be taken care of by two level 4 Cleric spells.

[Zorgoth]

Well, it isn't a credible threat to a party of level 30s no matter what you do to it I would think... I think the build I'm planning for my sorcerer/incantatrix/archmage could kill it at level 22 by itself. Do epic monsters get more than +20 to their greater dispel magic? I would be inclined to give it +30 just so that you can't do what I was thinking of, which is raise caster level to 30+ via archmage levels and items, time stop(s) dimensional lock, barred forcecage, wall of force to avoid atropal's spells, projected image above the wall so you can cast at it, disintegrate or polymorph the (5 a day) nightcrawlers in one or two rounds each, then kill the atropal at your leisure with your favorite spell, since due to a +20 cap on dispel magic it would have absolutely no way of dispelling the dimensional lock or anything else you cast at it. Or if it has to be hit by good-aligned that would make it so I would presumably need someone with the competence to actually kill something using weapons. Or maybe a lot of summon celestial monster spells, but I don't have any of those.

[Spuddles]

Undead are immune to polymorph effects that arent polymorph any object, at least in core.

[Deox]

Give it #1 and call it a day.

Minus the DR stating "epic" the good and silver is pretty easy to get by.

[Starbuck_II]

The Atropol as described in http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#atropal has Regeneration 20, and takes "normal damage" from good aligned weapons. What does this mean? Regeneration turns normal damage into nonlethal damage, to which an Atropol is immune because it is undead. Does that mean that the Atropol is immune to all damage that is not good aligned? That would seem a little excessive. So what is the correct way to think about this? I can see four ways that it could be interpreted without completely negating the idea that good weapons are different:

1) Literal text of the rules as far as I can tell: Atropol is immune to all damage except for good aligned weapons. Doesn't actually heal any damage because it heals 20 nonlethal damage every turn, but it is impossible for it to have any.

2) Treat regeneration as fast healing, but don't allow it to heal damage from good aligned weapons. The Atropol is destroyed at zero hp regardless of source of damage.

3) Treat regeneration as fast healing, but don't allow it to heal damage from good aligned weapons. The Atropol must take it's maximum hit point total in good aligned damage to be destroyed, but it is disabled if it reaches zero hp in normal damage.

4) Treat regeneration as fast healing, but don't allow it to heal damage from good aligned weapons. The Atropol is disabled at zero hp, but the killing blow must be made with a good-aligned weapon to destroy it. Possibly allow a coup de grace even though it's undead?


I'd consider #4 to be what they intended since in 3.5 undead lost regeneration.

[Scow2]

I'd say allow undead with Regeneration to convert originally-lethal damage to nonlethal and function normally, while having originally-nonlethal damage be negated.

[Zorgoth]

Undead are immune to polymorph effects that arent polymorph any object, at least in core.

Yes, they are. And this is a problem for a level 22 sorcerer how :D? A bigger problem is that the monster can also project image actually, but since I'm planning on taking enlarge spell, I could still beat it using enlarged project image from far away if there was open space.

[Starmage21]

The atropol is an epic level creature with nascent divinity. Both are areas where the rules just dont freaking work the way they do 1-20. I agree with #1, and call the atropol a special case where Regeneration is concerned.