Duskblade Build?

[Bloodgruve]

Hey Playgrounders

Got some questions on the Duskblade.

Looking at a few paths and not sure which way I should go.

Obtain Familar and Improved Familar or Dragon Familiar. It says that if your familiar dies or is dismissed you lose XP and you have to wait a year and a day for a new one and pay 100G. Is there any way to change out your familiar and not take these penalties. If not, do I take the feats and then just wait for the level that I can get an Imp or wyrmling?

Arcane Disciple - What does a Duskblade lack at later levels and are there 'better' domains to chose from? I want to fill in some of the classes weaknesses.

Other feats I'm looking at are Power Attack, Travel Devotion and Knowledge Devotion.

Also, looks like I'll be the front line 'tank' so any suggestions here would be great too.

**I'm limited to classes from Core, CAdv, CArc and PHB2, think most feats are available though.**

Thanks for your input

Blood~

[RaviStrife]

Strong Duskblade build?

I've been wanting to play an Illumian Duskblade for a while, Specifically with the Racial Word AeshKrau.

At levels 1 and 2 you would have Caster Level 2 and 4 respectively, being able to drop HUGE amounts of hurt in the form of Kelgore's Fire Bolt at 2d6 and 4d6 (with no roll to hit!).

For feats, I would recommend either Battle Caster (to upgrade your armor to medium at level 1) or Versatile Spellcaster for even more blasting slots if you really don't have enough casting as a sorcerer.

Worth mentioning that Precocious Apprentice and Reserve Feat: Fiery Blast can provide a viable blasting method in the form of a 2d6 Fireball extremely early in your career.

Finally, USE A LONGSPEAR OR GLAIVE. Everyone seems to forget how useful Reach is...doubly so at level 1.

[Bloodgruve]

Thanks for the reply.

I promised the DM I wouldn't cheeze this guy too much. He's a new DM and I'm pretty familiar with the game and have been looking at Duskblade for a long time. Setup a kid that I DM for with one also and it looks fun. Our books are limited though to core, Complete Arcane, Complete Adventurer and PHB2. I'm pretty sure we can pull feats from anywhere though.

I want versatile spellcaster too, but I'd like add one or two more aspects to the Duskblade rather than just channel. So I'm looking at Familiars and Knowledge Devotion for a bit of fun. Or maybe I should just go spiked chain.

Where do I find Illumian? Its familiar just can't place it. MoI?

Thanks

Blood~

[Deox]

If you're looking for a bit of flavor, the Knight Phantom PrC might be worth looking into.

WoTC has it listed here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050706a&page=4

Tempest Stormwind did a wonderful build stub somewhere over there on the CharOp boards, showcasing the Knight Phantom using Duskblade.

[Sunbaked]

Hi Blood,

I didn't get very far on my duskblade (the party wiped when the cleric failed his heal checks on drow poison and then had wisdom drained) BUT here's what I did and I had ton of fun ... until I died.

Race: Human
Flaw: Vulnerable (-1 AC)

Feats
Flaw: Exotic weapon - Spiked chain: Ranged weapon and you can use it when the bad guys are close
Human: Power attack - Chain is two handed so this is great.
1st level: Obtain Familiar - As a house rule we mitigate the cost of this by assuming you and your magic school/tutor split the cost. I got the weasle for improved reflex saves.
3rd level: Knowledge Devotion - This was planned from the start so the vast majority of my skill points had already been put into the six "monster" knowledges. From here on out I split every skill point I had between them. ***At this point I also took the Skill Trick "Collector of Stories". I will cover the synergy in a moment.
6th level: Combat Expertise - This actually came in very handy a few times (before I failed my save verse Drow Poison). You have full base attack and you're going to be doing more than enough damage to get the attention of some one at some point. Might as well have the option to use that base attack to save your bacon too.

Stat wise (I rolled terrible: 16, 10, 13, 14, 9, 10 and that's my better roll during creation. We use the roll 4 take the highest 3)

STR got the sixteen, INT got the 14 and I used WIS as my dump. If I had rolled a little better the next stat would have been CON.

Here's the beauty of knowledge devotion plus collector of stories:

At level 6 I had 7 ranks in knowledge religion, plus 2 INT bonus, plus 5 for collector of stories. That's a handy +14 on knowledge checks versus any monsters that fall under that knowledge (gods/goddesses and UNDEAD). Roll a 10 on your check (that's a total of 24), use the chart on page 60 of the Complete Champion and an you're now +2 on hit and damage rolls.

The sad part is we wiped at level 7 but I had so much fun playing this class I will definitely use it whenever I have the chance.

[Sunbaked]

As a side note, nothing is more hilarious than having your familiar flank an enemy during combat and deliver a shocking grasp as the kill shot :smallbiggrin: Too. Much. Fun.

[DR27]

"Tank" stuff? You might consider a Crusader dip at lvl 6 to enter Jade Phoenix Mage - progresses your spell casting and gives you new maneuvers. Crusader doesn't cost actions to refresh maneuvers, so that's something to consider.

Something like this to get you to mid levels (10):
Feats - 1st: Power Attack, H(B): Improved Bull Rush, 2(B): Combat Casting 3: Knowledge Devotion, 6: Shock Trooper, 9: Arcane Strike
Spells
0 level: Ray of Frost, Touch of Fatigue
1st level: Chill Touch, Blade of Blood, True Strike, Shocking Grasp
2nd level: Scorching Ray, Dimension Hop, Swift Fly, Animalistic Power
Maneuvers Known: Charging Minotaur, Foehammer, Stone Vise, Mountain Hammer, Battle Leader’s Charge, Douse the Flames, Entangling Blade
Stances Known: Iron Guard's Glare, Mystic Phoenix Stance

After early levels, a typical combat would start with you deciding to either charge using Charging Minotaur to activate all of the Shock Trooper options at once or fire off a Scorching Ray at an intimidating opponent. After that, you are going to likely be in melee, using Entangling Blade/Stone Vise to keep opponents from getting near your allies. If they do, you have maneuvers like Douse the Flames and Iron Guard's Glare to prevent opponents from targeting anybody but yourself. Use your teleportation to take advantageous positions.

You have a lot of options at your disposal, all focused on directing the attacks of your opponents towards yourself, hitting back hard, and shrugging off any punishment you get in return. Grab a Devoted Spirit polearm and some armor spikes, then go to town. Gear in the Duskblade Handbook and lists of necessary magic items would be useful as well.

Focusing on your familiar is also a good idea if you want to single class to get full attack channeling, but that "Tank" part is pretty hard without ToB classes.

[Snowbluff]

If you're grabbing a familiar that has poison, I suggest Poison Spell (DotU). This lets you add poisons to your channeled shocking grasps. :smallwink:

[dantiesilva]

I have been wanting to try out a duskblade/Abjurant champion/Spellsword mix. Is it fully optimized? No, but it flows rather well.

5th level duskblade gets you quick cast 1/day. Add that on top of Abjurant champion's Extend and swift Abjuration. And Spellsword for a 3 level dip to gain a bonus feat (Battle caster?), as well as ignore Arcane spell failure 15%.

Now you can walk around in fullplate with only a 20% chance of failing your spells, (unless you have greater luminious armor) And just Tank as you cast spells.

So my build would be something like Duskblade5/Abjurant champion 5/Spellsword 3/+6 Duskblade/Loremaster 1

-Spell power +3
-Quick cast 2/day
-Armored mage (medium) +(heavy shield)
-Arcane channeling
-Combat casting
-Arcane attunement
-Ignore spell failure 15%
-Bonus feat
-Secret (determine by your intelligence msotly)
-Abjurant Armor
-Extended Abjuration
-Swift Abjuration
-Arcane Boost
-Martial Arcanist

19/20 BAB
19/20 casting Not bad in my eyes at least.

[Snowbluff]

DB 13 should not be delayed unless you're not going that high. Spellsword's ASF bonus is redundant if you're a DB. Their Channeling is alright, but once your get full round channeling, it's just bad.

Also, Smiting Spell would combo well with Spellsword and DB channeling. Spend 1 round prepping 2 spells, then ambush the next. This is even better with Spellstoring.

[DR27]

DB 13 should not be delayed unless you're not going that high. Spellsword's ASF bonus is redundant if you're a DB. Their Channeling is alright, but once your get full round channeling, it's just bad.

Also, Smiting Spell would combo well with Spellsword and DB channeling. Spend 1 round prepping 2 spells, then ambush the next. This is even better with Spellstoring.That's why it's difficult to give advice anytime that somebody asks about building a Duskblade - are you going up to level 13? If so, straight Duskblade - which means get some sort of combat appropriate familiar (even though you probably want to deliver your touch spells yourself) and Knowledge Devotion. If not - PrC out, class features are basically already in place after early levels. Even more difficult to give advice when people want to "Tank."

[Snowbluff]

That's why it's difficult to give advice anytime that somebody asks about building a Duskblade - are you going up to level 13? If so, straight Duskblade - which means get some sort of combat appropriate familiar (even though you probably want to deliver your touch spells yourself) and Knowledge Devotion. If not - PrC out, class features are basically already in place after early levels. Even more difficult to give advice when people want to "Tank."

I totally agree. This class has more if-thens than most.

Knowledge devotion has always bothered me, because the DB gets so few skills/level. I guess if you get lucky, you can have 6 (Human, not Azurin/Silverbrow, with good enough rolls for a 16 int), but that's a bit low. I guess it's like Favored Enemy, in that if you know what you'll be fighting, it's much better.

[Bloodgruve]

Thanks for all the replies. Great stuff.

I'm limited currently on available classes so ToB is off the table till I can convince the DM otherwise.

I am probably pushing for lvl 13 before I multiclass so my 'extras' will have to be from feats/skills/items.

I've played a Factotum/Swordsage so I'm a bit spoiled with tons of options. A bit apprehensive with taking such a focused class. I promised my DM no cheeze so Wizard n Versatile Spellcaster is out too.

Thanks

Blood~

[DR27]

I've played a Factotum/Swordsage so I'm a bit spoiled with tons of options. A bit apprehensive with taking such a focused class. I promised my DM no cheeze so Wizard n Versatile Spellcaster is out too.Lol at the DM that thinks that Versatile Spellcaster is cheesy, but Improved Familiar on a Duskblade is no biggie.

[Snowbluff]

You know there are non-cheesy ways to use versatile spellcaster, right?

Anyway, I'd say something like this:

Human: Combat Expertise
1:EWP Spike Chain
3: Imp Trip
6:Knowledge Devotion
9: Power Attack
12: Arcane Strike

[Bloodgruve]

Lol at the DM that thinks that Versatile Spellcaster is cheesy, but Improved Familiar on a Duskblade is no biggie.

Cheeze comes in from VS + Wizard1 n Spellbook+ Spontaneous Caster, depending on how its interpreted.

I've never played Imp Familiar n Duskblade, or any other class, so I'm not sure how 'biggie' it is ;) What makes it strong?


I'm kicking around the idea of a tripper too.

Thanks again,

Blood~

[Snowbluff]

Cheeze comes in from VS + Wizard1 n Spellbook+ Spontaneous Caster, depending on how its interpreted.
Eh, it's not that bad, especially considering a straight wizard would be better.


I've never played Imp Familiar n Duskblade, or any other class, so I'm not sure how 'biggie' it is ;) What makes it strong?

Well, familiars are great, but improved ones are just better. Most of them have forms that aid them in combat, and since the DB has good BaB and decent health, the familiar inherits a good chassis. Add on SLAs, then you got a pretty good minion.

[DR27]

Well, familiars are great, but improved ones are just better. Most of them have forms that aid them in combat, and since the DB has good BaB and decent health, the familiar inherits a good chassis. Add on SLAs, then you got a pretty good minion.And it gets half your HP, which is considerable compared to a wizard/sorcerer familiar. The chassis that an improved familiar comes with from Duskblade is superior, and it can deliver your touch spells.

Off-topic, but my favorite application of this high BAB/HP caster familiar is to swap out a Hexblade's familiar for a dark companion, then regain the familiar/improved familiar through feats. Can actually redeem a large part of Hexblade suckitude.

[A_S]

Anyway, I'd say something like this:

Human: Combat Expertise
1:EWP Spike Chain
3: Imp Trip
6:Knowledge Devotion
9: Power Attack
12: Arcane Strike
Why the prioritization of reach tripping early in the build? Doesn't look to me like Duskblades can channel on trip attacks or AoO's until level 13, since the level 3 form specifies "use a standard action" (which precludes AoO's) and "the attack deals damage normally" (which precludes trip attempts).

The level 13 version is "part of a full attack action," which can include trip attempts, and affects "each target you hit in melee combat that round," which means the charge will stick around and work on subsequent AoO's. But if that's what you're doing, I'd much rather order the feats:

1 - Power Attack, EWP (spiked chain)
3 - Knowledge Devotion
6 - Combat Expertise
9 - Arcane Strike
12 - Improved Trip

That gets you the attack/damage bonuses much earlier, while still getting you Improved Trip in time for when you can make good use of it.

If going for a familiar, I'd drop the trip focus entirely. You can't fit in Combat Reflexes anyway.

[dantiesilva]

If you are taking 13 levels you may as well get pounce