Monsters that are worth the LA/HD of 10?

[CyberThread]

just fiddling with stuff, a little bored tonght.

Any monsters worth the HD +LA of equal to or less then Class level 10?

[Spuddles]

Ethergaunts, steel dragons, and tome dragons come to mind.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Phaerimm and Thri'Keen.

[Essence_of_War]

If you want monster races that are worth it in the neighborhood of ECL 10:

The Gloura come to mind, with their unearthly grace and stackable casting, although, strictly speaking they are ECL + 9.

Marrutacts have ECL+10 but add 5 levels of wizard casting that stack with other caster levels...not terrible as gishes.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Tauric Human+Lammasu, 8 HD of Monstrous Humanoid and +3 LA, 7th level Cleric casting with the Good and Healing domains, permanent supernatural Magic Circle against Evil, a few strong spell-like abilities, 2 claws, Pounce, 2 rakes, Str +12, Dex +2, Con +6, fly 60 ft. average maneuverability, +10 natural armor, plus all the benefits of being Human. Could possibly be considered to always be mounted due to his shape similar to a Centaur or Zelekhut. If this gains a level of Cleric then it actually gets two additional domains. It's a perfect candidate for Prestige Paladin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigePaladin), especially if you don't have to take Mounted Combat for the same reason a Zelekhut doesn't need it.

This combination (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306182#10) for only +5 LA and no racial HD is pretty good.



The Gloura come to mind, with their unearthly grace and stackable casting, although, strictly speaking they are ECL + 9.

Gloura (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e)

[CyberThread]

what would that even look like....

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

what would that even look like....

Which one?

The Tauric Human+Lammasu would be a lion's body with feathered wings at the shoulders, and in place of a head it would have a human torso from the waist up, similar to a Centaur or a winged Wemic (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ac/Wemic.JPG).

A Water Orc Half-Minotaur Half-Goristro would look like a huge-size demonic minotaur, but replace human parts with orc parts.

[CyberThread]

Which one?

The Tauric Human+Lammasu would be a lion's body with feathered wings at the shoulders, and in place of a head it would have a human torso from the waist up, similar to a Centaur or a winged Wemic (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ac/Wemic.JPG).

A Water Orc Half-Minotaur Half-Goristro would look like a huge-size demonic minotaur, but replace human parts with orc parts.



Okay I looked over tauric, where does the reduced LA come from? Lammansu are +5

[Silva Stormrage]

Okay I looked over tauric, where does the reduced LA come from? Lammansu are +5

Tauric sets the level adjustment to 2+the base human's LA (Also Shouldn't the LA be +2 instead of +3? Since human's LA is 0?)

[gooddragon1]

Phaerimm and Thri'Keen.

Seconded on Thri'Keen though I'll see you and raise you an Amphibious Anthropomorphic Giant Squid.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Tauric sets the level adjustment to 2+the base human's LA (Also Shouldn't the LA be +2 instead of +3? Since human's LA is 0?)

The 3.5 update booklet which is more recent than Savage Species sets it at Base Humanoid +3.

[CyberThread]

<_< I feel dirty for thinking of doing a lammasu with a lumi

[ChaoticDitz]

Which one?

The Tauric Human+Lammasu would be a lion's body with feathered wings at the shoulders, and in place of a head it would have a human torso from the waist up, similar to a Centaur or a winged Wemic (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ac/Wemic.JPG).

A Water Orc Half-Minotaur Half-Goristro would look like a huge-size demonic minotaur, but replace human parts with orc parts.

You may want to edit this; unless it legitimately has a waiste-up torso for a head?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

You may want to edit this; unless it legitimately has a waiste-up torso for a head?

Yes, it's like a Centaur but instead of Man + Horse it's Humanoid + Quadroped.

[ZamielVanWeber]

What book is tauric's LA listed in? I can never find it.

[Karnith]

What book is tauric's LA listed in? I can never find it.
It's got a Level Adjustment of "Base Humanoid +3" in the 3.5 update to Monster Manual II (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a).

[Silva Stormrage]

The 3.5 update booklet which is more recent than Savage Species sets it at Base Humanoid +3.

Ah thank you I didn't know that.

[Fax Celestis]

Spellwarped, Half-Fey, and Phrenic are almost always worth the LA cost when not starting at ECL 4 or less.

[Silva Stormrage]

Spellwarped, Half-Fey, and Phrenic are almost always worth the LA cost when not starting at ECL 4 or less.

I see spellwarped being called as a good template often but I just don't see it. +3 level adjustment is too heavy a cost for some SR and some decent ability score increases. Is there some trick to making the template useful?

[ZamielVanWeber]

I gotta second phrenic here. One of my all time #1 templates. Auto augmenting powers is hot.

[Fax Celestis]

I see spellwarped being called as a good template often but I just don't see it. +3 level adjustment is too heavy a cost for some SR and some decent ability score increases. Is there some trick to making the template useful?

+4 Str, +2 Dex, +4 Con, +4 Int: universally relevant and useful ability scores. Essentially +2 HP/HD and +2 skills/level, in addition to other benefits.

SR of 11+HD, so it scales and is at a mostly relevant value (equally ECL'd caster will be making overcome checks at 1d20+CL, about three higher than you because of your LA if you don't buy it off), and if it fails you get a big temporary bonus that you can change every time.

Take a one-level dip in cleric or wizard, or get a wand of cure minor wounds and ping yourself with it to trigger your spell absorption buff.

Put spellwarped on something dragonblooded and you can also take Awaken Spell Resistance (Draconomicon) to bump it up by 2 points per feat you spend on it, or be evil and take Boost Spell Resistance (BoVD). Dazzix's vest in DMG-II will increase SR by 5. Spending two feats and buying the vest will bump you up to 18 + HD, which will put you five points ahead of an equally ECL'd caster, meaning they'll fail basically 75% of the time (assuming they don't burn spell slots on assay spell resistance or have Spell Penetration; get a ring of counterspells for assay spell resistance, and Spell Pen + Improved Spell Pen still only pushes them back to a 55% failure rate).

Even more fun: get spell turning on you somehow, and then get a buff when their SR: Yes spell fails to pass and reflect it back at them.

[tyckspoon]

I see spellwarped being called as a good template often but I just don't see it. +3 level adjustment is too heavy a cost for some SR and some decent ability score increases. Is there some trick to making the template useful?

It makes you an Aberration, which has some potentially useful interactions with monstrous feat options and shapechanging magic. It's all pluses; the template has no penalties in it (unless you're of the school that says Spell Resistance is more penalty than benefit.) It's got good Spell Resistance; assuming a CL = HD situation, the check is tilted in favor of the Spellwarped creature (although for a PC concerned about ECL you'd need to use LA Buyoff to get there.) And speaking of LA Buyoff, it's a low enough LA that you can buyoff the whole thing over a 20-level progression. And you can have the Spell Absorption abilities running whenever you want if you happen to have an Invocation user hanging around, but that's pretty niche and still not all that strong.

I'll agree that it's probably still overcosted, but there are some things there you can leverage if you try. Not as straightforward as just using the psi-likes you get from Phrenic, certainly.

[CyberThread]

intresting stuff

[TiaC]

Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale is quite good. 3RHD with full BAB, no LA. Stats of +8, +4, +4 +0, +4, +0, Size large, +9 NA, 120' Blindsight, a Swim speed, and you can hold your breath for a very long time. I cannot think of a better Psywar race.

Edit: Also Saint and Gravetouched Ghoul are nice templates.