Blighter questions

[Xuldarinar]

Yes. Im going to be asking questions regarding the blighter. Perhaps with the right approach, this PrC might actually be worth something.

1: Given the prerequisites of the class, could you enter with an Ex-Druid 1/Spirit shaman 5 (Fractal BaB), or Ex-Druid 1/Spirit Shaman 6 into Blighter, making it so you have only (completely) 1 wasted level. If so, what other classes can technically meet the 3rd-level druid spells requirement? Is it any class that can cast a spell that counts as a 3rd-level spell on the druid spell list?

2: Deforestation. You kill all non sentient plant life in a radius of 20 x Blighter level, and then you get your spells for the day. Is there a way to make this an advantage or convenient?

3: Undead Wild Shape. Can one count this as wild shape for the purpose of meeting feat and/or PrC prerequisites? For instance: Could a blighter with the aberration blood feat take Aberration Wild Shape? Could a blighter enter Master of Many Forms? Also, seeing as it says "Undead wild shape functions like the druid's wild shape ability, except that the blighter adds the skeleton template to the animal form he chooses to transform into", does that mean the skeleton template is only applied to animals he turns into, based on the type, or any applicable creature they turn into (any creature with a skeletal system)?

4: While it is certainly at no risk for any awards for best spell-list, could one even remotely consider Blighter as a decent candidate for a theurgic character? For instance, based on the premise of a a previous question, Ex-Druid 1/Wizard 9/Blighter 2/Mystic Theurge 8?

[eggynack]

1: Given the prerequisites of the class, could you enter with an Ex-Druid 1/Spirit shaman 5 (Fractal BaB), or Ex-Druid 1/Spirit Shaman 6 into Blighter, making it so you have only (completely) 1 wasted level. If so, what other classes can technically meet the 3rd-level druid spells requirement? Is it any class that can cast a spell that counts as a 3rd-level spell on the druid spell list?
I'm pretty sure that druid spells are spells that a druid is casting, rather than spells off the druid list. A spirit shaman casts spirit shaman spells. This'd be slightly helpful if it worked, though your blighter spells and your spirit shaman spells would work off of separate progressions, so it wouldn't be all that great. Better, but not great. In any case, I think you need more than "not completely crippling" to get you to "worth something." Druids are obviously pretty fantastic, so going blighter is a downgrade, pretty much no matter how you slice it.

The only real question is whether this is particularly downgradeful compared to the other mediocre druid options, and I'd say yes. You can screw with a druid's not-list stuff a lot, and still be rocking a tier one class, but if you mess with the list enough, that's the only way to knock them below that point. The blighter messes with the list a whole hell of a lot, but doesn't help much at all with the rate of progression, and that basically destroys most advantages you'd get from other places in the class.

[Urpriest]

Yes. Im going to be asking questions regarding the blighter. Perhaps with the right approach, this PrC might actually be worth something.

1: Given the prerequisites of the class, could you enter with an Ex-Druid 1/Spirit shaman 5 (Fractal BaB), or Ex-Druid 1/Spirit Shaman 6 into Blighter, making it so you have only (completely) 1 wasted level. If so, what other classes can technically meet the 3rd-level druid spells requirement? Is it any class that can cast a spell that counts as a 3rd-level spell on the druid spell list?

As has been mentioned, it depends on the definition of "Druid spells". Paladins have the same problem via feats like Battle Blessing. There really isn't a RAW answer, it's one of those things that's unusable without houserules or errata.



2: Deforestation. You kill all non sentient plant life in a radius of 20 x Blighter level, and then you get your spells for the day. Is there a way to make this an advantage or convenient?

It's not so bad if you're a villain anyway. Necrocarnates have it harder.




3: Undead Wild Shape. Can one count this as wild shape for the purpose of meeting feat and/or PrC prerequisites? For instance: Could a blighter with the aberration blood feat take Aberration Wild Shape? Could a blighter enter Master of Many Forms? Also, seeing as it says "Undead wild shape functions like the druid's wild shape ability, except that the blighter adds the skeleton template to the animal form he chooses to transform into", does that mean the skeleton template is only applied to animals he turns into, based on the type, or any applicable creature they turn into (any creature with a skeletal system)?

It probably doesn't count, since it just functions as it in terms of application and things usually need to say if they work for prereqs or feat interaction. On the other hand, the Planar Shepherd appears to think Blighters can qualify for it, so maybe it was intended to work. I would think it would still apply skeleton to every creature they turn into, probably regardless of whether it would normally qualify since there isn't any stipulation and nothing stops animals from lacking a skeletal system.



4: While it is certainly at no risk for any awards for best spell-list, could one even remotely consider Blighter as a decent candidate for a theurgic character? For instance, based on the premise of a a previous question, Ex-Druid 1/Wizard 9/Blighter 2/Mystic Theurge 8?

Only if that premise holds. Even then, you're much worse off than an Ur-priest (though need fewer skill points to qualify), and arguably worse off than an Apostle of Peace (at least they get Sanctified spells).

[Xuldarinar]

I'm pretty sure that druid spells are spells that a druid is casting, rather than spells off the druid list. A spirit shaman casts spirit shaman spells. This'd be slightly helpful if it worked, though your blighter spells and your spirit shaman spells would work off of separate progressions, so it wouldn't be all that great. Better, but not great. In any case, I think you need more than "not completely crippling" to get you to "worth something." Druids are obviously pretty fantastic, so going blighter is a downgrade, pretty much no matter how you slice it.

The only real question is whether this is particularly downgradeful compared to the other mediocre druid options, and I'd say yes. You can screw with a druid's not-list stuff a lot, and still be rocking a tier one class, but if you mess with the list enough, that's the only way to knock them below that point. The blighter messes with the list a whole hell of a lot, but doesn't help much at all with the rate of progression, and that basically destroys most advantages you'd get from other places in the class.


As has been mentioned, it depends on the definition of "Druid spells". Paladins have the same problem via feats like Battle Blessing. There really isn't a RAW answer, it's one of those things that's unusable without houserules or errata.


I cannot argue with that. Shame they never addressed it officially. I can see reasons for either interpretation of the rules.



It's not so bad if you're a villain anyway. Necrocarnates have it harder.



Well, true on both cases. Only problems I have with the method are that it makes it so a blighter is bound to any place with forest, and its not exactly a subtle method. People might not notice if you study or pray for an hour every day. People might notice when parts of the forest are torched.



It probably doesn't count, since it just functions as it in terms of application and things usually need to say if they work for prereqs or feat interaction. On the other hand, the Planar Shepherd appears to think Blighters can qualify for it, so maybe it was intended to work. I would think it would still apply skeleton to every creature they turn into, probably regardless of whether it would normally qualify since there isn't any stipulation and nothing stops animals from lacking a skeletal system.


Huh, I honestly hadn't noticed the blighter mention previously. Maybe, while in RAW it is unclear if it would work or not, at least in RAI it works. So, Ex-Druid 6/Blighter 3/Planar Shepherd 9: Skeletal Fire Elementals?



Only if that premise holds. Even then, you're much worse off than an Ur-priest (though need fewer skill points to qualify), and arguably worse off than an Apostle of Peace (at least they get Sanctified spells).


Well, generally any theurge lacking in Ur-Priest is typically worse off than ones with Ur-Priest, but I see your point on that one. Given that the blighter's CL is Blighter level + Druid level.. its not optimal for theurgy. In the strict reading of 'Druid spells', and optimal blighter CL route, thats 8 levels just to qualify with the blighter's casting.

[Xuldarinar]

Some things that could work with a blighter.


Aberration Wild Shape: If you don't feel like going for a PrC that would give you such a form, there is always this feat. The aberration feats can add a certain flavor to the blighter. Though it leaves me to wonder, what would a skeletal illithid look like?

Dragon Wild Shape: You are limited to medium with the feat, but a medium skeletal dragon isn't half bad, all things considered.

Elemental Theurgy: If you grab an arcane spellcasting class and Arcane Disciple for the fire domain, you could take and use this. While not all the spells in the blighter's list are fire spells, a number of them are. With this, lets say for instance you are a wizard, all of your fire spells have a CL of Wizard level + Ex-Druid level + Blighter level. Though, you could be a Domain Wizard with the fire domain, dropping the need for one of the feats.

Natural Spell: If you are playing anything with wild shape, not taking this feat is ridiculous. There are, of course, other feats that help out wild shape and most of them could help out a blighter.

Tainted Druid: I think this is a feat you can almost certainly inherently qualify for as a blighter. Add the fiendish template to your wild shapes, and yet all of your spells and abilities that pertain to animals now only apply to fiendish animals. So… You could turn into a skeletal fiendish animal, but your Speak with Dead Animal, Animate Dead Animal, and arguably Unbond will only be usable if the fiendish template gets involved. Pending on your setting, location, and what your focus is, I think this could just do more harm than good for you. But, if you decide to burn down forests in evil aligned planes, you might just feel right at home.

Daggerspell Shaper: Needing to be non-evil is fortunately still an option for blighters, as odd as it is. Scout 1/(Ex)Druid 6/Blighter 3 prior to entry. Toss in the Swift Avenger feat (Dragon 357) so at least your Ex-druid levels advance skirmish. Not optimal, likely still strictly weaker than Scout/Druid/Daggerspell Shaper, but its an option.

Fochlucan Lyrist: Not that I'd recommend it it. Rogue 2/Bard 1/Ex-Druid 5/Blighter 1 before you can enter, that pattern I think being the best for getting skill requirements. After 10 levels in lyricist, you cast as bard 11 and blighter 10, with a CL for blighter of 16, not to mention has Bardic Knowledge and Bardic Music as an 11th level bard. And that last level before epic you have a level to toss wherever you feel.

Hierophant: While you can technically enter at CL 13 (ex-druid 6/blighter 7), I think I'd advise finishing blighter first. Ex-druid 6/Blighter 10/Hierophant 4. Blast Infidel might have some use, Divine reach would help out some of the blighter's spells as well as Contagious Touch, Spell Power I'd skip on in favor of practiced spellcaster, Spell-Like Ability isn't half bad but your spell list is.

Master of Many Forms: All of your wild shapes would likely be skeletal, but you can view that as simply a plus. Granted, rather than entering at 6th level, you'd have to wait till 9th, but some things are worth the wait.

Planar Shepard: Since the class actually brings up the blighter in it's entry section, we know that they can enter it or that the writer was delusional, either way. I have heard the PrC is broken (strong). Given that, perhaps it can balance things out to a point.

Primeval: If you use your undead wild shape to assume your primeval form, on top of everything else, you also turn into a skeleton (in theory). Optimal, I don't think so, but it could be interesting to play with.

Talontar Blightlord: Because you feel like being an Anti-druid/Anti-Druid. Ex-Druid 6/Blighter 4/Talontar Blightlord 10. A lightly larger spell list, and the PrCs go together to a point.

Warshaper: If you ever feel like messing with your skeletal animal forms, then this one is for you. Multimorph also could be quite helpful.

[Just to Browse]

The list of things the blighter can do is basically just like the list of things the druid can do, but smaller.

If you want to play a blighter, you should just play an evil cleric of a disease god, or a neutral evil druid that talks about death being part of the cycle of life.

[Fooliscious]

A friend of mine and I homebrewed a 1-20 progression of the class. It was by no means perfect but super fun to play. Light casting paired with an expanded undead wild shape with more focus on Blightfire. I can dig it out of my email if interested in seeing it.

[eggynack]

The list of things the blighter can do is basically just like the list of things the druid can do, but smaller.

Yeah, you can't really just say, "Look at these ways in which a blighter is better than a commoner." You need to be able to say, "Look at these ways in which a blighter is better than a druid," and that's a lot harder, verging on impossible. Any gain on the blighter's part is bogged down by a massive pile of losses. There's a reason why there're only about three good druid prestige classes, and there're a million reasons why blighter isn't one of them.

[Xuldarinar]

Good points thus far, though now I need to ask an important question.


The requirements to enter Planar Shepherd are as follows
Skills: Knowledge (nature) 8 ranks, Knowledge (the planes) 4 ranks.
Feats: Greensigner Initiate or initiate of Nightbringers (at DM's option).
Special: Wild shape class feature.


Now. It says under Becoming a Planar Shepherd: "Sometimes a blighter (Complete Divine 23) enters this class to further his exploration of the planes of death, madness, or destruction." Establishing blighters can qualify. Now, looking back to the prerequisites.

Special: Wild shape class feature.
We have established that undead wild shape could count for this.


Feats: Greensigner Initiate or initiate of Nightbringers (at DM's option).

Well…
Greensigner Initiate
Prerequisite: Ability to spontaneously cast summon nature's ally.

Nightbringer Initiate
Prerequisite: Nongood alignment, ability to spontaneously cast summon nature's ally.


Back to the blighter, under their spells per day class feature: "A blighter prepares and casts spells just as a druid does (though a blighter cannot spontaneously cast summon spells)."

Now, does this mean we can use a feat as a prerequisite, even if we no longer have the prerequisites for the feat itself?