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Were-Sandwich
2006-12-29, 01:54 PM
MY friend presented me with a scenario, and neither me nor him knows of a way to beat it. This scenario is such.

Your opponent has the following cards out:

concerted effort, pristine angel, platinum angel, blazing archon, ivory mask

Is there a way to hurt him with all of these out? My friend has a deck that is capable of getting them all out, but not consistently.

Help me?

Gogo525
2006-12-29, 02:07 PM
I just spent 15 minutes on here typing up stuff then I came to realize that I didn't take into account pristine angel and concerted efforts. The only way that I would think is to destroy the Ivory mask. Then have a creature that can tap a target creature. Make him colorless with a card from time spiral ( I cant remember the name at the moment). Tap the pristine angel and use another destroy artifact/ench to blow up the Platinum angel. Then get a heavy hitter that is considered unblocked even though they are (thorn elemental) buff him up and send him in. The only problem is that I have no idea what the blazing archon does. You could just wrath of god after you tap the pristine angel then start to build back up while your buddie sits there in awe because you blew his "unbeatable" combo out of the water.

Were-Sandwich
2006-12-29, 02:09 PM
Blazing Archon has "creatures can't attack you"

Gogo525
2006-12-29, 02:28 PM
....Well Then Wrath of god it away! That is the only thing I can think of. Well after you tap the Pristine angel.

Were-Sandwich
2006-12-29, 02:37 PM
Hmmm. That might work. Then nail the Ivory Mask and you're good to go.

Gogo525
2006-12-29, 03:02 PM
Yup. That just means that you gotta be playing blue/white. Which I hate. Very much. But if that is what you have to do then do it. If I find that card around this trash dump (my house) I will get on here and put the name of it. Otherwise good luck to ya.

Were-Sandwich
2006-12-29, 03:09 PM
Disenchant (Concerted Effort), then Wrath of God (to kill the Archon) and half your problems are over. Then destroy the Ivory Mask. Just gotta find a way to nail the Pristine Angel

Ebon_Drake
2006-12-30, 12:51 PM
Disenchant (Concerted Effort), then Wrath of God (to kill the Archon) and half your problems are over. Then destroy the Ivory Mask. Just gotta find a way to nail the Pristine Angel
Protection only stops a creature being Damaged, Enchanted or equipped, Blocked and Targeted by what it is protected from. Untargeted removal like Wrath of God, Mutilate or Obliterate will destroy Pristine Angel just fine.

The only board sweepers that wouldn't destroy the angel would be a mass-damaging spell like Hurricane or Wildfire, since although they dodge the "can't be targeted" clause, protection reduces the assigned damage to zero due to the separate "can't be damaged" clause.

Were-Sandwich
2006-12-30, 02:25 PM
ah. that is very good to know

Glaivemaster
2007-01-02, 06:28 AM
So, wrath of God, or something similar, will deal with most of your problems. If you don't want to play white, try Obliterate (red), Plague Wind/Damnation (Black), Tranquility+naturalise (green), or sway the stars (blue). They should all break the combo, and at least allow you to get creatures through (if you can play any :) )

Were-Sandwich
2007-01-02, 08:40 AM
This hasn't really come up in a game, its more of a thought exercise, but my friend could actually do this if he drew the cards right, and I'd like to know how to bring it down

Starblade
2007-01-02, 07:57 PM
I have a couple of ideas. First of all keep something handy to deal with ivory mask. Examples - Shattering spree, Disenchant, Naturalize,

Then instead of trying to target his creatures for removal force him to sacrifice his creatures. Diabolic Edict is a good one. Try putting it on a Isocron Scepter and make him sac a creature every turn. He wont be happy guarantee it. Its also cheaper than buying 4 wraths of god. I remember a creature called Greater Harvester that forces players to sac their permanents when they get hit by him. "Sacrificing minions, is there anything it cant solve?"- Xykon

If you want to spend a couple of bucks these might be fun to use on him also.. Lobotomy - Eradicate- Splinter - Scour.

Everything he is casting is expensive so you should be able to do Something about him before he gets all of this out.

Does he use it all the time? is it necessary to build something just to fight him because hes decided to be as annoying as possible? In the game of magic there is always a way.. No one can be invincible. =)

Need more ideas let me know and id love to try and help.

TheThan
2007-01-02, 11:58 PM
Easy way to knock his combo out is with two cards, Cleansing Meditation (http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=2617), and Wrath of God (http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=37956). Then you follow up with creatures the next turn while he’s still recovering from the board wipe.

I was going to mention that protection doesn’t stop global destroy effects but looks like someone beat me to it. Good Job. You have to be careful with targeted spells, Diabolic Edict for example still targets a player, meaning it’ll fizzle if there’s any ivory masks in play.

Mr Pink
2007-01-09, 01:01 AM
those are some high casting cards... surely a control deck would prevent him from getting all those cards out... a beat down deck would kill him before he could play enough cards to get that crazy 5 card combo out... otherwise, you play some sort of burn/control deck that board clears away his ivory mask and other enchantments whilst you burn him/his creatures.

that combo sounds rediculously hard to play IMHO... just focus on controlling the board, and not allowing him to drop several of thise cards into play, or otherwise, play a fast style deck that will have him on teh back foot always trying to stop you from killign him instead of dropping his "combo".

I personally wouldn't be too afraid of it... there's more ways to prevent him (or making it very hard at least) from playing those cards then trying to clear them once he plays them. I'd focus on that...

Penguinizer
2007-01-09, 02:41 PM
I think there is a card where all cards are counted as artifacts, then use shatter spree (or something like that) to destroy all of his cards.

StevieWonderMk2
2007-01-10, 03:08 PM
Upheavel.

Returns everything to everyones hands. Gonna take him a LOOOONG while to get all those guys back out.
Alternatively, go land destruction at the start. Mana screw him enough and he'll have lots of trouble getting those guys out.
Or, Transcendance once you get to low life. Then, when you get to high life, disenchant your own transcendance. Rinse, repeat.
Form of the dragon would work if you have someway to stop yourself getting killed (lots of Fog)

WampaX
2007-01-10, 03:34 PM
Nevinyrral's Disk, untap via whatever popular way the kids are doing it nowadays, destroy.

Deepblue706
2007-01-10, 03:36 PM
Force of Will
Daze
Foil
Counterspell
Mana Leak
Force Spike
Rewind

Behold_the_Void
2007-02-08, 06:17 PM
Nevinyrral's Disk, untap via whatever popular way the kids are doing it nowadays, destroy.

Darn you WampaX for beating me to the punch.

But yeah, wipe out everything on the table besides lands. Definitely a good way to go. Plus it's an artifact!

tgva8889
2007-02-08, 09:47 PM
The key to this problem is that there are multiple cards in play that prevent you from winning:
Platinum Angel actually says that he can't lose.
Ivory Mask prevents him from being targeted.
Blazing Archon prevents him from being attacked.

Not only are there those cards, but there is also the nice Platinum Angel + Concerted Effort combo, which gives all his creatures Protection from All Colors and Artifacts at the beginning of every upkeep. However, this only protects against targeted effects and damage. Therefore, there are many options.

The best option?

Obliterate. Destroy every single part of that combo except the Mask and the Effort, guaranteed. Granted, now you can win anyways, so it makes no difference. Plus, they have no lands! The best part is, if you have an indestructable creature, artifact, or land, like, say, Darksteel Collossus, you win. You could also have some decent enchantment in play, and you'd be set.

Some other options include:

Wrath of God and all variants
Upheaval
Tranquility and all variants (you'd need to follow this up with a kill spell for the Angel if you want to win, and a kill spell for the Archon if you plan to attack for the win, but it breaks up the combo)
Magus of the Disc and Nevinyrral's Disc
Jokulhaups
Akroma's Vengence
Terminate, Dark Banishing, and various other variants of these cards (If you play this in response to the Concerted Effort's trigger, you can easily kill their Platinum Angel)

To find any of those cards, use The Gatherer (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/index.aspx?).

Basically, there's so many good "destroy all creatures" cards in existance that this combo is ridiculously easy to crush.

To stop the combo from ever coming out, various answers include milling cards, counterspells, land destruction, and of course, individual destruction before the combo can be all played out. Remember, you can respond to any spell with a nice, good ol' Terminate.

You think we could make this thread a "Magic Brain-Teaser" thread? I could probably come up with one.

Wehrkind
2007-02-09, 11:14 AM
Man, I can't believe no one mentioned False Prophet. 2/2 for 1WW that pulls a Wrath of God when he dies. I used to run a white/black deck that used him and Corpse Dance (2B instant, 2 buy back into play from graveyard, remove from game at end of turn) and some way of sacrificing creatures to wipe the board whenever I needed to, including his turn. Alternately, put it in a white/red deck with goblin bombardment or something to that effect.

Really an under rated creature...

tgva8889
2007-02-09, 12:58 PM
Man, I can't believe no one mentioned False Prophet. 2/2 for 1WW that pulls a Wrath of God when he dies. I used to run a white/black deck that used him and Corpse Dance (2B instant, 2 buy back into play from graveyard, remove from game at end of turn) and some way of sacrificing creatures to wipe the board whenever I needed to, including his turn. Alternately, put it in a white/red deck with goblin bombardment or something to that effect.

Really an under rated creature...

Technically, I mentioned it when I said "Wrath of God and all variants," since that card is a variant of Wrath of God. But no, not explicitly. It also requires that you somehow kill your own guy, because otherwise your opponent will simply fly over your head with his Angel and Archon.

Krytha
2007-02-09, 03:19 PM
Honestly, the concerted effort and ivory mask are ridiculously irrelevant, especially if you're playing a creature deck. I don't know how many decades it takes your friend to get all these pieces out, but if you can't beat him before the platinum angel is out, start playing goblins with 4 fury charms. He won't have anything of consequence on the board by the time he's dead.

Exachix
2007-02-09, 03:49 PM
Ensure you have more life than them. Then play Pyrohemia (http://ww2.wizards.com/Gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?name=Pyrohemia)

Even better if you have lots of tokens would be Hour of Reckoning (http://ww2.wizards.com/Gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?name=Hour of Reckoning)

The only other way around it that I can think of, would be a "target player skips their next upkeep step" targeted upon you, so that at the beginning of your next turn, their creatures don't get the protection stuff. Then destroy Platinum Angel and Ivory Mask and deal as much direct damage as possible.

Also, if you have got stuffy doll (http://ww2.wizards.com/Gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?name=stuffy%20Doll) out beforehand, if you deal damage to it, the damage won't be negated by Ivory Mask. Then Shivan Meteor (http://ww2.wizards.com/Gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?name=Shivan Meteor).

Actually, all you need to do is remove Platinum Angel, then choose one:
Battle of Wits (http://ww2.wizards.com/Gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?name=Battle of Wits)
Darksteel Reactor (http://ww2.wizards.com/Gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?name=Darksteel Reactor)
Epic Struggle (http://ww2.wizards.com/Gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?name=Epic Struggle)
Mortal Combat (http://ww2.wizards.com/Gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?name=Mortal Combat)
Test of Endurance (http://ww2.wizards.com/Gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?name=Test of Endurance)
Chance Encounter (http://ww2.wizards.com/Gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?name=Chance Encounter)
Coalition Victory (http://ww2.wizards.com/Gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?name=Coalition Victory)

If you get your own Platinum Angel out, It's a stalemate.

Jothki
2007-02-09, 11:06 PM
Speaking of crazy combos, weren't there a bunch of artifacts released a while ago that were specifically designed to form an infinite combo if you were clever enough to figure out how to use them? I believe that they churned through your mana pool, graveyard, hand, and possibly something else, dealing damage each cycle while returning everything else to its original state.

tgva8889
2007-02-09, 11:07 PM
Speaking of crazy combos, weren't there a bunch of artifacts released a while ago that were specifically designed to form an infinite combo if you were clever enough to figure out how to use them? I believe that they churned through your mana pool, graveyard, hand, and possibly something else, dealing damage each cycle while returning everything else to its original state.

The Stations, namely:
Summoning Station, Salvaging Station, Blasting Station, and Grinding Station.

nosajtpno
2007-02-10, 05:04 AM
Really, there's only one card you mentioned that's a problem here, and that's Platinum Angel. There's a million ways to kill him after that. One thing people seem to be forgetting about Concerted Effort is that it spreads the abilities at the beginning of each upkeep. Just say "At the beginning of my turn, In response to Concerted Effort's trigger, I play Dark Banishing targeting your Platinum Angel"

Problem solved. Now pick your win condition. (Non-targetting like Bond of Agony, kill the Archon like you did the angel and attack, or kill the enchantment with a Naturalize or Disenchant like effect)

Now, if you want a puzzle that's at least a little tougher to solve, try this:

Your opponent has a Mycosynth Lattice, a Platinum Angel, 2 Privileged Positions, and a Darksteel Forge. Figure out how many ways you can kill him. Still very possible, but not nearly as many solutions.

Ebon_Drake
2007-02-10, 08:00 AM
Apocalypse or a hardcast Decree of Annihilation, preferably with lots of things like Greater Gargadon suspended so that you can smash face in the next turn or so. Upheaval would also work. Final Judgement, Living Death/End, Cruel/Diabolic/Chainer's Edict and Evacuation (along with plenty of other cards) could all take out the Platinum Angel, which is the only actual problem card. With that gone, you do whatever you'd normally do to win.

Elvaris
2007-02-10, 08:36 AM
For style points in both cases: Thieves' Auction. (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?id=19722)
Nothing's targeted, nothing's destroyed, and you get first pick of cards, so you just take the Platinum Angel and let the rest sort itself out.

Krytha
2007-02-10, 01:58 PM
Mutilate, attack for 20...
March of the Machines, Mutilate
Energy Flux, Copy Enchantment... + Prodigal Sorceror LOLOLOLOLOL

Nothing is untouchable in Magic...

tgva8889
2007-02-11, 12:33 AM
Better: If he's at low enough life, Insurrection.

Krytha
2007-02-11, 03:34 AM
Better: If he's at low enough life, Insurrection.

which is situational and slow... hmmm...

Wehrkind
2007-02-11, 06:26 AM
Tgva: If you put False Prophet in your deck and do not include plenty of ways to kill your own creatures for fun and profit, you aren't trying hard enough. SO many fun cards that let you sacrifice a creature to some fun effect, including plenty of enchantments and artifacts to use over and over.