[3.X] Building Lee Sin, the Blind Monk.

[Yael]

Even tho people tell me monks are a terrible class on 3.0-3.5, I want tu run a character with his abilities, because the mobility they offer are just too great, so I don't know if it can be done with swordsage (which I think it will), but I'd like to read some suggestions :D

(3.0-3.5, no PF)

[XmonkTad]

Play a human monk. Then gouge your eyes out.

Really though, take a look at shadow hand ninja from ToB. Putting people in darkness that only you can see through is kind of close, it makes you blind at least.

[Red Fel]

First off, I don't know Lee Sin as a character - is this an original concept, or does it come from a source?

That said, I'll jump aboard the Monks-Make-Me-Disappoint train. Unarmed Swordsage is a good way to get lots of awesome martial arts movie tricks. It also has some skills that go well with a blindness motif - for example, the 5th-level Diamond Mind stance Hearing the Air gives you Blindsense to 30 feet, plus a +5 to Listen checks. The class also gets the monk's Wis to AC, whether you go unarmed variant or basic (although the basic gets it in light armor, whereas the monk only gets it with none). ToB maneuvers also grant great mobility, and recharge with each encounter.

There are a number of monk PrCs if you're really intent on going monk, but ToB just tends to be a better fit if you want wacky kung-fu shenanigans.

As a side note, you might also consider a race that has blindsense or tremorsense abilities, enabling you to start the game blind. I can think of a few that get something like blindsense later on (Dragonborn get it at high HD, and Hellbred get telepathy) but off the top of my head, I'm not thinking of many that start with it.

[Frosty]

Lee Sin probably needs a combination of Shadow Hand (jumping around), Devoted Spirit (shielding others), and Setting Sun (throw others really far).

For Red: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Lee_Sin

[Psyren]

Psionics could do this easily - be blind, take Synesthete to start with and then Touchsight later. Tashalatora Monk/Psywar can get you all of his abilities; alternatively you can go Kung Fu Genius Tash Monk/Psion.

[Flickerdart]

because the mobility they offer are just too great
Do you mean the speed increase? As an enhancement bonus, it doesn't stack with all the best boosts, so you're no better off than anyone who buys a pair of boots.

[Snowbluff]

Seconding Shadow Sun Ninja. They are Monk/Swordsages who blind themselves and others for attacks.

[Yael]

More than the character itself, I meant the concept.


Do you mean the speed increase? As an enhancement bonus, it doesn't stack with all the best boosts, so you're no better off than anyone who buys a pair of boots.

Not exactly the movement speed. Half of Lee Sin's abilities rely on self-mobility, dashing to shielding others, jump to far away enemies to get into melee range. That kind of mobility is great because even tho you are just a human, on the entire battlefield, you can have control of afar enemies and your allies as well.

[Red Fel]

Lee Sin probably needs a combination of Shadow Hand (jumping around), Devoted Spirit (shielding others), and Setting Sun (throw others really far).

For Red: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Lee_Sin

And the student was enlightened.


More than the character itself, I meant the concept.

Not exactly the movement speed. Half of Lee Sin's abilities rely on self-mobility, dashing to shielding others, jump to far away enemies to get into melee range. That kind of mobility is great because even tho you are just a human, on the entire battlefield, you can have control of afar enemies and your allies as well.

Take Travel Devotion. 1/day, lasts 1 minute, move up to your speed as a swift action, so you can do it every turn. Note that this provokes attacks of opportunity. If you want to be tricksy, juice your Dex modifier (sounds like you plan to anyway), add feats like Desert Wind Dodge or Expeditious Dodge, throw on Combat Reflexes and Robilar's Gambit, and just move past enemies, dodging their AoOs and countering with the same. This will let you attack an absurd number of enemies while sweeping across the battlefield like the blind omnicidal fist of the heavens you are.

This also gives you the ability to Be There, whether it's where the enemy is who needs smashing, or where the ally is who needs protecting.

If you take Swordsage, you don't get access to Devoted Soul maneuvers, but you can either take a Crusader dip at the right level, or just grab a feat, to get Iron Guard's Glare or Thicket of Blades, which are basically bread and butter for tanking.

Now go, and meditate on what you have learned.

[Flickerdart]

More than the character itself, I meant the concept.



Not exactly the movement speed. Half of Lee Sin's abilities rely on self-mobility, dashing to shielding others, jump to far away enemies to get into melee range. That kind of mobility is great because even tho you are just a human, on the entire battlefield, you can have control of afar enemies and your allies as well.
Monks can't actually do any of that. The Swordsage's various teleportation abilities will serve you much better.

[Snowbluff]

Monks can't actually do any of that. The Swordsage's various teleportation abilities will serve you much better.

And Sudden Leap. :3

[Psyren]

Monks can't actually do any of that. The Swordsage's various teleportation abilities will serve you much better.

The OP already mentioned Swordsage in the first post, we don't need to dogpile on the monk here too :smalltongue:

[Flickerdart]

And Sudden Leap. :3
Sudden Leap is pretty good, but being limited by your Jump Check kind of blows, you can't combine it with Sun School's awesome Flash of Sunset option (or straight up shadowpouncing), and you have to take a dual-wielding maneuver that you probably don't want as an Unarmed Swordsage.

[Snowbluff]

Sudden Leap is pretty good, but being limited by your Jump Check kind of blows, you can't combine it with Sun School's awesome Flash of Sunset option (or straight up shadowpouncing), and you have to take a dual-wielding maneuver that you probably don't want as an Unarmed Swordsage.

Dual wielding? It's free movement.

-or-

Dual weilding? It's a school that works very well for either style.

Jump check isn't so great, but it get's better as you level, and Swordsage Recovery means you don't get to be picky about what free movement you get.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Sudden Leap is pretty good, but being limited by your Jump Check kind of blows, you can't combine it with Sun School's awesome Flash of Sunset option (or straight up shadowpouncing), and you have to take a dual-wielding maneuver that you probably don't want as an Unarmed Swordsage.

Can't you TWF with Unarmed strikes?

Edit: Snowbluff, Sudden leap has a 1 maneuver pre-req (completely stupid IMO, I think it is the only level 1 maneuver with pre-reqs but I might be wrong), so you need to take Wolf Fang Strike, which is a nice maneuver, but almost useless on THF.

[Snowbluff]

Can't you TWF with Unarmed strikes?

Edit: Snowbluff, Sudden leap has a 1 maneuver pre-req (completely stupid IMO, I think it is the only level 1 maneuver with pre-reqs but I might be wrong), so you need to take Wolf Fang Strike, which is a nice maneuver, but almost useless on THF.

You can always kick or armor spike someone, like you said. :smalltongue:

[A.A.King]

If you want to be truly blind, don't forget to pick up "Blindsight, 5-foot Radius". Like the name suggest it gives you blindsight within a 5-foot radius. This means no more miss chance from the fact that everyone is treated as invisible for you.