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Starmage21
2013-09-30, 12:55 PM
Greetings ladies and gents! I need you all as a sort of sounding board and feedback machine :D

I've got a couple players that are going to pursue the half-fiend template. The NPC I have in question is willing to provide, but he's certainly going to manipulate the situation to the way he'd like it to be.

To that end, I want to modify the template to include Baatezu traits without affecting the LA. The LA on the template is already +4!

I figure the SLAs of the base template are worth +1 or +2 since they grant spells before a cleric or wizard would be able to cast them. If we drop those, and add in the Baatezu traits, would that result in a more or less equal LA worth of features?

References:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_baatezusubtype&alpha=
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/halfFiend.htm

Zaydos
2013-09-30, 01:02 PM
Honestly I'd say it makes it slightly weaker at high levels. While most of the SLAs are meh or bad spells starting at 11th level you start getting nice things as a half-fiend while your Baatezu traits get weaker. See in Darkness and Fire Immunity are useful, but not up to snuff for the SLAs you're losing (one is a step up from a 1st level spell, roughly a 2nd or 3rd level spell, the other is 6th level druid spell) and even telepathy (with the chance to take Mindsight) still doesn't make up for it.

You'd also probably want to drop the electricity resistance as Baatezu don't get it.

That leaves the Summon ability, and the question: What creatures would you be able to summon and would it scale with level?

Starmage21
2013-09-30, 01:48 PM
Honestly I'd say it makes it slightly weaker at high levels. While most of the SLAs are meh or bad spells starting at 11th level you start getting nice things as a half-fiend while your Baatezu traits get weaker. See in Darkness and Fire Immunity are useful, but not up to snuff for the SLAs you're losing (one is a step up from a 1st level spell, roughly a 2nd or 3rd level spell, the other is 6th level druid spell) and even telepathy (with the chance to take Mindsight) still doesn't make up for it.

You'd also probably want to drop the electricity resistance as Baatezu don't get it.

That leaves the Summon ability, and the question: What creatures would you be able to summon and would it scale with level?

I actually need to read up a bit on how that Summon ability works from a fluffy perspective of the Baatezu. I may make them have to make a summon pact with another Baatezu for summoning via that ability!

Per your recommendations:

Drop resistances, apply subtype resistances only.
Still gaining telepathy and Summon above and beyond template. I need the LA to remain about the same.

Starmage21
2013-10-01, 08:07 AM
OK this is what I've got so far for my custom "Baatezu Cambion" template:

As Half-Fiend EXCEPT
type changes to Outsider (Native, Baatezu)
No resistances supplied by the template, those resistances supplied by the Baatezu subtype supersede.
The Spell-like abilities Unholy Blight and Contagion switch place, dropping the LA by 1 to +3 from +4.
The Summon SLA of the Baatezu subtype initially cannot function. The Cambion may be a "member of the team", but holds no official status. He must form summoning pacts (through roleplaying) with other Baatezu (only) for this power to function. If for some reason the cambion is given rank among the Baatezu, he could select one of his subordinates for summoning rather than making a pact. This should be similar to the Planar Ally chain of spells, thus restraining it to no extra LA.




The immunities provided by the Baatezu subtype should technically be worth some LA, but it has been mentioned that these can essentially be provided by spells, plus we're playing in a PLANESCAPE campaign where such immunities would be well known and exploited. Because of that, perhaps I could overlook it. Opinions?