3.5 Warforged Powerfist [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

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tricktroller

2013-09-30, 02:59 PM

tricktroller

2013-09-30, 03:07 PM

Also it could just be a regular non psychic space marine. I just like the idea of this big hulking armored dude with a power fist.

Red Fel

2013-09-30, 03:08 PM

Ok folks, so I want to make a warforged who wears an adamantine body but who basically resembles a grey knight form the warhammer 40k Universe. He will be around 7'6" tall, I plan to put a battle fist on him so it looks like he is wearing a powerfist from 40k and the whole psychic might thin might be fun. SO I imagine a tashalatora or psychic warrior style build would be best but I don;t know.

So... your question, is, uh...?

Are you asking, "Is this a good idea?" Or, "What kind of build should I use?" Or better yet, "How do I psychic?"

Because I don't really get what it is you're asking, and that kind of leaves it open-ended... And if you leave it too open-ended as to what you're looking for...

... we end up with a Tippy infestation...

tricktroller

2013-09-30, 03:10 PM

Haha I want some help building this character. I am mostly just looking for a character who uses a gigantic fist to punch things and I will have his armor look less like warforged and more like space marine armor for fluff.

I mostly just want to make this concept work both with psionics and without.

Red Fel

2013-09-30, 03:17 PM

Well, I don't do psionics much since earlier editions, so I can't help you there.

But if you want a non-psionic version, let me do as I often do here in the forums, and preach to you the gospel of Tome of Battle.

Yea, I say unto thee, Behold the Stone Dragon Discipline, for it produces much smashing of stuff, irrespective of hardness or DR. And lo, the Iron Heart Discipline allows you to parry all things, even rays, with your weapon of choice, even your hands, for they are mighty. And verily, Diamond Mind allows you to substitute a Concentration check for any save. Forsooth, is not a Warforged well-constituted? Hath he not a Concentration check most absurd? Yay, he is as a tank, and so shall his saves be mighty.

Tl;dr version: Tome of Battle lets you do lots of cool melee stuff, even unarmed, and is pretty sweet. I'm sure you can find some solid flavor there.

But hopefully someone can fill in the psionics half of your question, because those can be pretty dad-gum cool too.

tricktroller

2013-09-30, 03:21 PM

I mean so far my thoughts are

Monk 1/ Fighter 1/ Barbarian 1/fighter 17?

two flaws

Fl1 Adamantine Body
Fl2 Jaws of Death
1st Natural Weaponry (Improves all natural weapon damages according to a table if applied and a battlefist is equipped at 3rd level I do 3d8 damage with fists and 2d6 with bites)
M1 ?
F1 TWF
3rd Imp. Natural weaponry
F2 Heavy Armor focus (AEG feat book +1 ac - 1 acp)
6th Improved Natural Attack (3d8-4d8)
F4 Heavy armor spec (AEG feat book +2 ac - 2 acp stacks with focus)
F6 Heavy Armor Mastery (AEG feat book +3 ac - 3 acp stacks with focus and spec)
9th ?

tricktroller

2013-09-30, 03:22 PM

I'm not sure if you are familiar with the 40k universe but I feel the Bo9S feels more like the assassins employed by the Imperium as opposed to the space marines.

Red Fel

2013-09-30, 03:26 PM

I am only marginally familiar with 40K. But not all ToB classes are assassin-like.

For example, the Crusader is essentially a big, hulking knight in massive armor who shrugs off damage. Their primary abilities involve leadership and tactics, smashing hard things, and soaking damage while healing allies. Well-played, they are slow but fairly implacable.

If this is not what Space Marines do, of course, then yeah, you're probably better with psionics.

tricktroller

2013-09-30, 03:34 PM

They are basically superhumans and greyknights are super super humans with psionic abilities that help them fight mind wars with demons lol. Some of them rip open holes in reality to destroy their enemies etc. But basically a I want to play a space marine in Terminator armor I guess is what I am really going for. If you look up terminator armor you should see what I mean.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120605183205/warhammer40k/images/f/fd/GK_Terminator2.jpg A like a so

Forrestfire

2013-09-30, 05:14 PM

Just to get this out of the way...

I'm not sure if you are familiar with the 40k universe but I feel the Bo9S feels more like the assassins employed by the Imperium as opposed to the space marines.

The Warblade is just an intelligent fighter who gets a lot of stuff like "tank through stuff," "hit harder," "make a special parry," or "work with your allies really well."

The Crusader does that as well, while also being tankier and having self-healing stuff (There more to both, but they generally boil down to having the options to do that). A swordsage might fit an Imperial Assassin more, but the warblade and crusader aren't anywhere near that sort of fighter.

In any case, depending on what sort of Grey Knight you're basing it off of, they may not even have especially flashy powers. Don't you need a whole squad generally to do stuff like holocaust?

Although if you're playing a librarian or grand master type, psionics is probably better (although magic might fit better for the higher-end psykers). Psychic warrior levels are nice, and going into Slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm) gives you anti-psychic stuff (very Grey Knight) while keeping up your base attack bonus and power progression.

I think the build I'd run is would be something like...

Psychic Warrior 3/Dungeoncrasher Fighter 2/Slayer 10/Warblade 5

Picking up shock trooper and leap attack will let you do tons of damage when combined with bull rushes (4d6+2*str mod if you bull rush someone into something solid), and since you've got 3 fighter feats from your levels, you can probably afford to spend several on increasing your natural attacks (or pick up a halberd for true Grey Knightness).

In any case, it gets you 12th-level psychic warrior manifesting (make sure to get practiced manifester for an extra 4 ML), +19 BAB, and a ton of damage on both charges and full attacks (which you can do at the same time with psionic lion's charge).

Some good maneuvers to pick up with the Warblade levels (you have Initiator Level 7 + your warblade levels, so you can start with learning higher level ones, although your first stance has to be a level 1 stance) might be the Diamond Mind counters to replace saves with concentration, the Iron Heart stuff that lets you reroll attacks, use your attack bonus for AC, or the ever-useful Iron Heart Surge. Stone Dragon stuff lets you ignore DR (power weapon much?) on some hits, White Raven can easily represent the Marine being a master tactician and warrior, etc.

tricktroller

2013-09-30, 05:20 PM

Deadline

2013-09-30, 05:35 PM

It may be worth pointing you towards some homebrew here: Magitech Templar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176276)

Be sure to look closely at the Magitech Upgrades you can get. There's a powerfist that mimics the 40k equivalent nicely.

Forrestfire

2013-09-30, 09:22 PM

My biggest concern with making the space marine character I have in mind is being viable form level 3 onwards and I care less about the Grey knight side and more about the space marine with a power fist in either dreadnought or power armor.

I can't speak for magitech templar, but the build I suggested above is definitely viable from level 3 onward.

{table=head] Level | Class | Feats/Options | What’s useful

1 | Fighter 1 | Adamantine Body, Power Attack (fighter bonus) | You have a good AC and can do alright damage for a level 1 character

2 | Psychic Warrior 1 | Improved Bull Rush (psychic warrior bonus) | Mostly the same, but you get a power of some sort

3 | Fighter 2 | Track, Dungeoncrasher variant fighter | Bull rushes into walls do 4d6+2x str mod damage

4 | Psychic Warrior 2 | Practiced Manifester (psychic warrior bonus) |

5 | Psychic Warrior 3 | | Another 1st-level power

6 | Slayer 1 | Leap Attack | You get a favored enemy—maybe you can have the DM let you call daemons psionic, and leap attack lets you do lots of damage on a charge

7 | Slayer 2 | Psychic warrior manifesting hits 4th level, pick up Psionic Lion’s Charge | You can now full attack on a charge, which is nice because you have BAB +6/+1 at this level

8 | Slayer 3 | | Another 2nd-level power (I like hustle for moving back out of melee to set up another charge, or dissolving weapon for acid damage). You also get +4 against mind-affecting stuff

9 | Slayer 4 | Shock Trooper | You can now bull rush things sideways on a charge, proccing dungeoncrasher easily, and you can subtract power attack from your AC instead of your attack bonus

10 | Slayer 5 | | You get a 3rd-level power, like a quick dimension door (Gate of Infinity anyone?)

11 | Warblade 1 | Initiator level 6 lets you grab up to 3rd-level maneuvers. I like Wall of Blades (make an attack roll and use it as AC), Iron Heart Surge, and Lion’s Roar (if you kill something, activate to buff allies) | Maneuvers make you tankier. You can also pick up hunter’s sense as your stance if you want to be a Space Wolf.

12 | Slayer 6 | Second Slam (if you want to be Marneus Calgar), Brute Fighting (if you’re using a 2-handed weapon), or Shocking Fist (ohey, now it looks like a power weapon) | You’re immune to being found with divination or other remote-viewing stuff. Your feat choice will probably let you do more damage.

13 | Slayer 7 | | Now that you’re manifesting as a 10th-level psychic warrior, you get a 4th-level power. Freedom of Movement is always nice to have

14 | Slayer 8 | | Now you can reduce power resistance. Depending on how your DM handles transparency, you might also be able to reduce spell resistance.

15 | Slayer 9 | Whatever feat you want, really. Armor Spikes gives you another “weapon” to add, which you could fluff as a lightning claw or just hitting harder with the power fist | The real Slayer capstone. You get a selective immunity to mind-affecting effects. This is better than mind blank when combined with the immunity to divinations from earlier.

16 | Warblade 2 | You’re now initiator level 9, so you have access to a 5th-level maneuver of your choice. Dancing Mongoose (+2 attacks in an attack action) is nice if you picked up Hunter’s Sense and another tiger claw in the first warblade level | Your maneuver will decide how useful this level is. It’s also d12 hit die and full BAB, so it’s still better than a fighter level

17 | Warblade 3 | | More maneuvers to round out your arsenal.

18 | Warblade 4 | You get another stance, and you’re initiator level 11, so you can grab anything up to level 6 that you qualify for. Your feat can really be whatever you want. | You continue to get more maneuvers, and continue to deal tons of damage in melee, especially if you charge

19 | Warblade 5 | Grab a bonus feat from a fairly bad list. Improved Initiative is always good though. |

20 | Warblade 6| You get a 7th-level maneuver. | [/table]

The warblade levels could really be whatever you want, I'm just partial to the extra options you get in combat.

On the build itself: Your damage options start around level 3, and are all taken by level 9 or so, after which you can charge and subtract your full BAB from your AC for two times that number (or three times that number with a two-handed weapon) to damage. The psychic warrior powers give you a good amount of tricks, as do warblade maneuvers, and Slayer levels up your defenses against some of the more dangerous magical effects fairly well. If you're taking flaws, Track and Improved Bull Rush could be shoved to first level, and you could take more warforged feats earlier on, and also multiattack if you're going with the Second Slam route.

Don't forget that you can use a weapon and still slam at a -5 to hit, and armor spikes gotten with the feat qualify as a weapon for those purposes (so your attacks at high levels would be Spikes/Spikes/Spikes/Spikes/Slam/Slam/whatever other natural weapons you get).

I feel it fits the space marine theme rather well, as it's a highly mobile, highly damaging, in-your-face attacker. The only thing it's not built for is ranged attacks, but you could always get an enchanted crossbow and pick up rapid reload to use it (+1 Splitting Force light crossbow seems to fit bolters rather well, as you're shooting 2-8 shots with it, and it ignores DR).

Oh, and be sure to get your armor spikes/slam enchanted with the Force enchantment, so you ignore DR with them (because, well, power weapon).

tricktroller

2013-10-01, 09:24 AM

Deadline

2013-10-01, 09:47 AM

Fax Celestis

2013-10-01, 09:54 AM

Full BAB and d12 HD plus a ton of class features and abilities? I don't know a DM that would allow this kind of class. I mean I would love to play it and I would select my adamantine body for its abilities but wow I don't think that will work lol.

...you mean like the Barbarian (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/barbarian.htm)? Or the Knight (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060501a&page=2)?

Fouredged Sword

2013-10-01, 09:57 AM

The best form of powerfist I have seen in 3.5 is mighty wallop (Cl high as posible) on a battlefist.

Get it as a CL 20 eternal wand and have it put in a wand slot on the fist itself. Now your battlefist is something like 5 sizes larger than normal, making your slam colossal.

Now you get supreme unarmed strike. This grants you good damage with your unarmed strike. The battle fist adds 6 sizes to it as well, for a colossal unarmed strike.

Then you get beast strike at 6th level to add the two together with each unarmed strike hit. You have a base weapon damage of 16d6.

I recommend psiwar as a base, because you can then also play around with expansion. Ancestral Relic is good for the Eternal wand of Greater Mighty Wallop because you can keep putting money into it to boost the CL as you go.

Captnq

2013-10-01, 10:55 AM

Go with an illusion. Then you get all the special effects you want, yet none of the cost.

Ya know... I did make a handbook on gauntlets a while a go. Threw it together. Where was it... Ah. Stuck it in with the zip file for my weapon handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9053.msg183871#msg183871). Everything you wanted to know about gauntlets as weapons.

Now, not entirely sure what a battle fist is. What book is that from?

Are you thinking of the battle gauntlets? Because it is one-handed, so you could upsize it to large, then buy balanced so you could still use it one handed. Then you could use it with both hands and power attack. Yes, strange, but that's how the rules work.

Or go with a Manople, double sized up then balanced.

Here. My recommendations:

Battle Gauntlet - The One-handed gauntlet, that occupies your hand and forearm slot. You use your unarmed damage. While it stops you from using bracers, a monk can use this two handed, thus allowing him to double the damage from a power attack. He can still freely manipulate objects with his hand. This is a simple weapon and simple weapon proficiency is fairly easy to come by. It is up to the individual DM to determine if a monk can use his flurry of blows through this weapon.

Manople -The gauntlet that also doubles as a shield, which you do not lose when you attack with the weapon. You cannot use your hand for anything else, mind you, making this the only hand slot weapon that prevents you from manipulating objects, but it’s a fair trade if you happen to be a two weapon fighter.

Spiked Gauntlet - Not as much damage as the bladed gauntlet, but it is still a simple weapon, and you can still manipulate objects with your hands. A step over normal gauntlets, yet doesn’t require an exotic feat like many of the others.

(EDITED: Sorry. Forgot to mention you can add spike thrower to a spiked gauntlet, then make the spiked thrower quick-loading and thus it comes with an extra-dimensional space to store 100 spikes for shooting at people. Slightly different from a spring-loaded gauntlet.)

Spring-Loaded Gauntlet - This is the only ranged weapon that occupies a body slot. You can still freely manipulate objects, but your other hand must be free to load. This still qualifies as a gauntlet, while allowing you to also include ranged weapon WSAs. An interesting option.

Ward Cestus - The Monk’s friend. It does damage entirely off your unarmed attacks, thus allowing a monk to use his superior unarmed damage, yet gain WSAs on his unarmed attacks. Alas, it is an exotic weapon, and thus requires a feat to use. If you don’t mind losing your bracers slot and have simple weapon proficiency, use a battle gauntlet instead. It is up to the DM if you can use this with FoB or not.

However, I think you'll find the Gauntlet Only, extrapolated WSAs to be of most use. Do note, a number are listed as gauntlet, Pair. You seem to want only ONE gauntlet. That might limit your choices.

Vaz

2013-10-01, 10:58 AM

Grey Knights don't use Powerfists, though.

tricktroller

2013-10-01, 11:01 AM

Which is why I want one that is a regular space marine......

Devronq

2013-10-01, 11:23 AM

Don't forget this guy asked if it was a good idea to take 17 levels of fighter Im sure hes in a very low OP campaign, ether way that class isn't any stronger than any of the TOB classes i suggest you go for one of those.

tricktroller

2013-10-01, 11:27 AM

It was 17 additional levels of fighter for a total of 18. I'm not looking to completely optimize and play a totally different concept, that doesn't make me an idiot. I want to play a character who looks like a space marine with a power fist or like a grey knight using a war forged as the base race.

Don;t get me wrong I think the Magitech Templar is cool, I just don't think that many DM's would allow it with all of its class features that are much much stronger than anything Barbarian offers by itself. That class is a strong class all on its own, plus the addition of feats and you are effectively doubling your WBL.

SoraWolf7

2013-10-01, 11:27 AM

If you want to forgo the psychic aspect, I'd suggest jumping into Artificer, which while it has lass BAB, it's perfect for Warforged, cause you can heal yourself and apply nice buffs to your powerfist arm like Bane.

Deox

2013-10-01, 12:03 PM

The Renegade Mastermaker PrC precisely grants a Battlefist, decent casting progression and some very fun abilities that might be worth looking into.

It eventually leads into becoming a living construct and meeting any pre-reqs for warforged goodies, like mithral or adamantine body.

tricktroller

2013-10-01, 12:29 PM

Deadline

2013-10-01, 12:35 PM

Don;t get me wrong I think the Magitech Templar is cool, I just don't think that many DM's would allow it with all of its class features that are much much stronger than anything Barbarian offers by itself. That class is a strong class all on its own, plus the addition of feats and you are effectively doubling your WBL.

It's not anywhere near as powerful as you seem to think it is. But yeah, if you are using Fighter as your benchmark for power, then pretty much everything is awesome by comparison.

At any rate, you might be able to convince your DM to let Renegade Mastermaker advance psionics instead of magic. Barring that, there are Warforged grafts in Faiths of Eberron that you might be able to get a hold of. I think Heavy Arms would be what you are looking for. They give you the warforged slam attack, which you then enhance with a Battlefist.

tricktroller

2013-10-01, 12:44 PM

Ok so if you were to start a Magitech Templar out at 3rd level how would you do it?

Fax Celestis

2013-10-01, 12:55 PM

The renegade Mastermaker PRC looks awesome! Anyone have a way to help me make a "Librarian with a power fist" out of this? I think it would be pretty sweet, race doesn't really matter to me just nothing super cheesy.

I'd enter with six levels of Duskblade. You'll need to get two basically useless feats to get in (Craft Magic Arms and Armor is pretty terrible for duskblades, but Craft Wondrous Item can be okay), but you get to punch people in the face with your taser fists.

Oh right. Duskblade's arcane channeling will apply to your battlefist, so you can punch people in the face and then add shocking grasp. Taser fists. Or vampire fists if you use vampiric touch. Shatter armor with fracturing weapon. Chain lightning and polar ray for advanced suit-based laser weapons.

And enjoy all of this while wearing your medium armor with no ACF, so...mithril full plate FTW.

tricktroller

2013-10-01, 12:55 PM

tricktroller

2013-10-01, 12:57 PM

a dwarf Fighter/wizard could do that with runesmith and wear any armor and shields and have no ASF also plus he would be a dwarf golem.

Fax Celestis

2013-10-01, 01:41 PM

a dwarf Fighter/wizard could do that with runesmith and wear any armor and shields and have no ASF also plus he would be a dwarf golem.

Yeah, but it'd be more complicated, higher level, lower mobility from dwarfism, and you'd have to stick in rune magic (which isn't bad, mind you) instead of the duskblade's more smitey focus.

Vaz

2013-10-01, 01:48 PM

Spirit Lion Totem 2/PsyWar 3 is the base.

Then, add on either Quori Mindhunter 9/Slayer 6, or Slayer 10/Quori Mindhunter 5.

That gives you Psywar 16 Manifesting, which still gives you 6th level powers; I prefer the Mindhunter for the ability to the Slayer, because... well it's a little different, and that you get 16BAB either way works out.

I also suggest the Mantled PsyWar (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a), which nets you a chosen Mantle, and adds its powers to your Mantle.

Good ones to choose thematically for Grey Knights include;
Conflict; Free weapon focus, Dimension Slide (Tactical Teleport), Immovability (DR15)
Corruption and Madness; while focused, cannot be confused, Brain Lock, Mindwipe
Fate Mantle; 1/day add Psywar levels to a d20 roll, Precognition (Off+Def), Greater Precognition
Force; While Focused, +1 to AC, Force Screen, Deflection Field, Ethereal Volley, Concussive Detonation
Freedom Mantle; Fast Movement Dimension Hop, Hustle, Psionic Fly, Psionic Freedom of Movement, Psionic Teleport
Good; Protection from Evil Psionic, Planar Embrace
Guardian Mantle; take damage for another target, Deaden Blow (take nonlethal damage instead), Thicken Skin (+AC), Damp Power, Dispel Psionics, Mind Over Energy
Justice; Immediate Action AoO against a foe attacking an ally, Incite Bravery, Zone of Truth, Aura Sight, Perfect Riposte (AoO against target that missed)
Law Mantle; Immovability, Steadfast Perfection (Immunity to Illusory effects)
Pain and Suffering; cause target to take half damage you took, Forced Share Pain, etc
Physical Power; Expend Focus for Str/Dex/Con bonus, gain Vigor, Psychofeedback (expend Cha for Str/Dex/Con bonus)
Planes; +4 on ML Checks to Overcome Power Resistance, Psionic Plane Shift, Planar Champion
Repose Mantle; +2 to Conc checks when focused, Serenity (Calm an enemy), Suspend Life (Sus'an Membrane?)

You'll want Psicrystal Affinity for the Psicrystal, and Expanded Knowledge (Share Pain).

Practised Manifester gives you ML20, which means you can augment more. If you pick up Empower Weapon as one of your 5th level powers, then you can get increased access to Manifesting while in combat.

Picking up the Arm Bow thing, and giving it the Exploding and Splitting enchantments gives you your Storm Bolter. I recommend taking a Spiked Gauntlet and a Glaive, then you can use your reach with it. While Expansion is not necessarily fluff-wise canon, you can use it to suggest that you're flooding your extra size with chemicals etc for the additional strength.

Oak Body increases your natural armour.

Dimensional Slide gives you Move Action Teleport; combined with Pounce, and you can target any enemy within sight, Move Action Teleport+Standard Charge+Pounce.

Other than that, typical melee focus builds work well. However, it might be worth adding to your range focus as well.

Deadline

2013-10-01, 02:40 PM

after having read over the magitech templar yet again, I still think it is pretty powerful because of the free WBL, but I understand the balance of the class better now, You will want more magitech upgrades but you have to wait to get them at every other level. Extra Magitech upgrade would be a pretty cool feat to go along with it I think.

*shrug* Fighter is low-tier (Tier 5, I think? Only Samurai and the NPC classes have it worse). Magitech Templar is tier 3 (where rogues, bards, warlocks, dragonfire adepts, etc. are). Tier 3 classes do have nice abilities. They aren't Wizards or Clerics, by any stretch, but they can be useful in more than one situation. Very few of the Magitech Upgrades are better than something someone with a level 1-2 character can get. They are neat utility things, which are all pretty useful, which is why it sits at a higher tier than the Fighter. In fact, I suspect that even giving the Fighter free armor like the Templar wouldn't be enough to raise it's tier.

At any rate, if you are looking for potency, the Psywar suggestion is probably your best bet. Your mention of a dwarf runesmith into Renegade Mastermaker will also be much more potent. Heck, even the Duskblabe build mentioned might come out ahead (although I suspect it will be similar in power to the Magitech Templar).

If you are worried about your GM vetoing things, the Duskblade/Renegade Mastermaker is probably the most entertaining option. Sure, Wizard/Runesmith/Spellsword would be more powerful and versatile, but I'm just a big fan of Duskblades.

tricktroller

2013-10-01, 04:56 PM

tricktroller

2013-10-01, 05:04 PM

haha a dual wielding power fists, 3x propulsion, diving attack and great strength would be fun for an assault marine style build.

Deadline

2013-10-01, 05:10 PM

hehe I had a good laugh about a space marine stunty librarian after I suggested dwarf.

also do you think a feat that you could take at first level to get extra magitech upgrades that could be taken multiple times would be over powered?

I don't think so (because the upgrades themselves have prerequisites built in), but again, you'd have to run that past your GM if they allowed it.

Have you given up on the more potent ideas presented? The psywar would be a pretty fierce combatant.

tricktroller

2013-10-01, 05:16 PM

In all honesty, I have never really played much with psionics because none of the groups I play with really use it. I think I have seen 2 psionic characters ever, I have never seen an incarnum character and I very very rarely see Bo9S characters. So all the things you guys are showing are cool but I highly doubt that about half of each concept will be allowed at the table.

The psywar does look like my best bet to making a "Grey Knight" and I wouldn;t mind a detailed build breakdown and explanation for the character so I could know what I would be doing with it before I presented it to the DM.

Vaz

2013-10-01, 07:48 PM

The only thing I don't like about the PsyWar Build is that in an AMF field/Dead Magic Zone, the abilities are lost, for the most part, when the abilities recreate the role of power armour, or a Grey Knights physiology.

In regards to Psionics or Incarnum not being used; be the one to use them. PsyWar is a powerful melee character, and Incarnum is hella versatile, but they are T3 characters when played to their best; and even then, cannot compete with casters.

Barbarian 2

This can use any ACF's you wish, really, and still be effective, or come straight out of the box. However, the unoriginal combinations work the best for a reason;

Spirit Lion Totem (from Complete Champion) trades your Fast Movement for a Supernatural Pounce. Whirling Frenzy (UA) can increase your attacks 1/day, or you can stay with Rage for more durability. You can give up Uncanny Dodge if you wish for Improved Trip (Wolf Totem from UA); if you feel you'll really need it (you're in Heavy Armour after all), then Shape Soulmeld (Impulse Boots) gives it you back. You have a decent chassis as well; Full BAB, d12+Con HP; 2nd level means roughly 25ish HP. Pick up Track here, to give you some more utility out of combat and not be useless there.

Mantled PsyWar 3

These levels give you the requisite BAB for Slayer, as well as providing you with the Manifesting base that augments you. Mantled Psychic Warrior trades their second Fighter Bonus Feat (use your first one to pick up Power Attack, or similar) for a Mantle from Complete Psionic. There are a large number, and they work largely like Domains; you pick one, and you add the powers on it to your class list (although you are not forced to choose the powers), as well as recieving a beneficial ability that is possibly of more worth than a fighter bonus feat. For example; the Conflict Domain granting you Weapon Focus also provides you with a better Power list.

Unfortunately, some of the Mantle's thematically appropriate spells for a Psywar are already on its list, but others (especially the 4th level powers and up) are not. As an example, Metamorphosis; it is not thematically appropriate, however, but gaining that power through the Natural World Mantle means a Psywar can gain massive combat potential. You can later pick up individual powers via a feat called Expanded Knowledge for those hard to get powers; the Ardent is the only class that can modify the powers on a Mantle's list.

The first 3 levels only allow you to pick up 1st level powers; but also grants you a single (or 2, if you don't go for a Mantle; the build is fairly feat starved) Fighter or Psionic Bonus feat. You require 3 Feats for the Prestige Classes; Track, Iron Will, and Narrow Mind; you cannot enter Quori Mindhunter until ECL7, so you can fit the feats in normally; however, if you have a particular non-Fighter Bonus Feat you have in mind that you wish to take, Narrow Mind is a Psionic Feat, so frees up a feat slot. Talking of which; Iron Will can be picked up via the Otyugh Hole located in Complete Scoundrel for 3K worth of loot as a reward; as your DM if you can use it.

Your powers are dependent on your Mantle, but they are all 1st level.

Adrenaline Boost, Deflection Field, Expansion, Force Screen, Metaphysical Weapon, Precognition (Defensive), Precognition (Offensive), Primal Fear, Stomp, Thicken Skin, Vigor all provide decent boosts, and are from the PsyWar list, and thematically work for Astartes.

Mantles add to that, but can turn you into a significantly more Librarian styled character; Psionic Daze (improving the action economy versus Mooks; Corruption and Madness Mantle), Psionic Dimension Hop (Instantaneous 10ft teleport to avoid incoming attacks, Freedom Mantle), Psionic Protection from Evil (improves your AC against Evil opponents, and protects you from non-good Summoned Creatures, and from mental control), Disable (Pain and Suffering Mantle; again, action economy enhancement), Deceleration (Slow target, Time Mantle). The Mantles 1st level powers aren't their best, though, right now.

Slayer 3

This is where you start increasing in potential power; 2nd level powers and an additional attack. If you use the XPH version, you focus on Illithids, but really, you want the SRD version, which gives more flexibility; choose a Favoured Enemy as a ranger, and autodetect their presence if they are within 60ft of you. Lucid Buffer is a good cut-off point; you get the major class abilities, until 6th level. Brain nausea is situationally useful, the only real brain eaters while you're still alive are Illithids; when you're dead it makes no difference, and is usually a secondary thought; while others are non-sentient and incapable of the thought process of "Ooh, lets eat that brain". However, Lucid Buffer beats off Mind Affecting, which as a warforged you're no longer immune to. You cut off here, to go into Mindhunter; you need to pick up Thought Shield as a power here.

Quori Mindhunter 9

You become immune to possession; situationally useful, but invaluable when you need it, and it's highly thematic. Power point reserve is very handy; 4 dropped Psywar levels by the end of the build; so +9pp by the end of the build is the equivalent of a free 5th level spell/day, or a 3rd and a second, or 4th and a 1st, etc.

Your limited powers known is improved by gaining Psionic versions of Dismissal, Dimensional Anchor and Plane Shift as free Powers Known; remember those 9 free PP; it's effectively 1/day free Plane Shift, if you need it, making it very useful in a party. After 1st level, 9/10 manifesting advancement is pretty good.

You get improved Thought Shield, but it needs augmenting to be useful. If you have any [Fear] Powers (cannot think of any that are actually available by RAW; Primal Fear isn't and Cerebral Phantasm is Psion only. However; Mind Affecting abilities you can reroll failed saves, and you get +4 to the DC to Forcibly eject the possessor from Possessed characters.

Slayer +3

You progress to pick up Cerebral Blind; you become immune to magical detection which becomes a capstone of a sort. With +3 Manifesting, and full BAB as well, you now pick up a 6th level power and your 4th Iterative attack.

So, the build looks like
Barbarian 2/PsyWar 3/Slayer 3/Quori Mindhunter 9/Slayer +3

Feats you need
Track, Narrow Mind, Iron Will

Advisable feats;
Psicrystal Affinity; gives you a Psicrystal for Vigor/Shared Pain combo if you wish. A Psicrystal is like a powerful familiar. If you DO pick up Metamorphosis, Sharing the power with your Psicrystal gives you a powerful meleer to help you; think like a Salamander's Firedrake, or Space Wolves Dire Wolf.

Ancestal Relic; Biffonacious will be able to help you out more than I can, but effectively, you have yourself a cheap self upgrading (3/8 normal cost) weapon that increases in power as you do. In the A+EG, you get the option of upgrading an item with Bonus Feats for a set cost. If you cannot think how to break that, you're not trying hard enough. E.g

A general guideline for other kinds of feats is that they cost 10,000gp, plus another 5,000gp to 10,000gp per prerequisite.

Epic Manifesting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/psionicPowers.htm); 3 prerequisites, worst case scenario = 40K. You get 2 free Manifestations of an Epic Power you know if you K. Psionics is 20 or more (although to cast it, you need Psicraft high enough, unless you can mitigate it enough).

Expanded Knowledge; to pick up none Mantle/PsyWar powers.

Shape Soulmeld; unbelievably useful and variable.

Practised Manifester; makes up for 4 lost manifester levels; gain bonus PP equal to your new Manifester Level as well; so effectively around +10PP on a 20 Wis character; +9 from Quori Mindhunter = 98PP per day.

Favourite Melee chains; you are a melee character; Power Leap Attacker to become a Charger, or Trip Chains to trip away with.

Items; Spiked Gauntlet + Glaive; you can trip away- make the Glaive the Relic. Armbow; Explosive + Splitting; shoot two exploding arrows a turn.

tricktroller

2013-10-02, 09:00 AM

Wow Vaz, that's pretty spiffy. Thanks for your work int his, I really like the idea of being a Grey Knight or a space marine in 40k.

How would you make a magitech templar to be like a regular space marine?

Person_Man

2013-10-02, 04:21 PM

Wow.... The Magitech Templar is so overpowered I don't even know what to say.

Full BAB and d12 HD plus a ton of class features and abilities? I don't know a DM that would allow this kind of class. I mean I would love to play it and I would select my adamantine body for its abilities but wow I don't think that will work lol.

So I obviously wrote the Magitech Templar (I've also played thousands of hours worth of 40K, Spacehulk, and D&D), and rewrote it literally TEN TIMES in response to playtesting that I and other Playgrounders (plural, as in at least 8 others who have given me specific written feedback via PM based on the game's they've played, plus comments on the threads themselves) have done in order to make it a fun and balanced Tier 3 class. It includes a bunch of cool options for defense, offense, mobility, and utility. But I spent a lot of time calibrating the numbers so that they scaled well without breaking things, and purposefully left out all of the "game breaking" Tier 1-2 options (teleportation, scrying, Summons, open ended abilities, etc).

Ok so if you were to start a Magitech Templar out at 3rd level how would you do it?

Depends on what role you want to play. If you want to play a Warforged with a Power Fist, then you'll want Great Strength and Power Fist Upgrades. Strait up smashy smashy. From there, you'll probably want Power Jump (if you're going to be using Leap Attack) or Propulsion, Diving Attack (Pounce), and then start loading up on defense or blasty options. I personally prefer to start out with 3 Blast options and then head into Defense stuff instead, and rely solely on Feats for melee options. But that's just a preference - the class is flexible enough that you can play it many different ways.

after having read over the magitech templar yet again, I still think it is pretty powerful because of the free WBL, but I understand the balance of the class better now, You will want more magitech upgrades but you have to wait to get them at every other level. Extra Magitech upgrade would be a pretty cool feat to go along with it I think.

That's been suggested before, and I purposefully left it out, because Upgrades are typically much stronger then Feats. And my general opinion homebrew is that you should write the class at the power level you intend, without any "Feat Taxes" or "mandatory Feat" options. (Such as Font of Inspiration, Extra Invocation, etc).

But if you disagree with me, you should just add "Extra Upgrade" as a Feat, with whatever pre-reqs you think makes sense. It's homebrew, after all.

tricktroller

2013-10-02, 04:47 PM

I did think about taking the blasty options and instead of using a powerfist using a battlefist for the warforged. Wouldn't be too hard with feats to up it to more than a D12.

tricktroller

2013-10-02, 05:19 PM

Oh and something I noticed, you put no range on light beams.

I mean I assume it is the same range as all of the other blasts just though I'd point it out.