Familiar Question

[Yogibear41]

Can a Familiar(Raven or something else that can talk) use a scroll that its master made without fail or does it need to make a UMD check in order to activate it?

Trying to find the cheapest and easiest way to be able to cast Nar Fiendbond(lost empires of faerun) on myself

[SolioFebalas]

Must make an UMD check.

[Thurbane]

And there are large amounts of debate as to whether even a talking familiar like a Raven can even use UMD.

Personally as a DM I would allow it, but I have seen extensive arguments here and elsewhere that the one language a raven speaks (or a normal familiar with a Pearl of Speech) would not be sufficient to utilize UMD; and also as to whether it's talons are sufficient to manipulate items such as Scrolls or Wands.

[ArcturusV]

Well, it's also a setting fluff issue. I know Ravens speak Common by default. And in some settings Draconic is the language that magic is in (Which is why spellcasters get it as a bonus language). Meaning they couldn't actually say the words either. So a DM might slap you with that.

At the very least, in order not to need a UMD check it needs both Class (Wizard/Sorcerer) and the Stats needed. Considering familiar stats, Wizard Int isn't going to be the way to go.

But there's not a lot of ways to add levels to a Familiar so that they can pick up a level of Sorcerer. Only one I can roughly think of is if you combine Animal Companion (Or special mount) with your familiar via some class/feat. Pretty sure there is one for the Animal Companion/Familiar hybrid. As an Animal Companion gains a HD, you MIGHT be able to convince a DM that should be any sort of HD advancement... including giving it a level of Sorcerer.

But I can't imagine most DMs would allow it. Off the top of my head I can't really think of something that prevents you from doing that by RAW. RAI, sure, that's cheesy as hell and not at all what the HD Advacement on Animal Companions meant. But it might be an idea.

[Yogibear41]

The raven can speak any one language of your choice, doesn't have to be common, as far as the language needed to activate the scroll it could most definitely vary from one scroll or wand to the next, however in this particular case I would be creating the scroll so I could make it require what ever language I wanted it too.


Also, this is mainly just for the casting of said spell which has the little drawback of "you cannot cast this on yourself" and my main goal is to find away around that little problem.

[ArcturusV]

Course, I have to ask if there's the simple solution of just paying some level 1 wizard scrub to use the scroll on you. They shouldn't be too hard to find in whatever city you're basing your adventures out of. If you already got a scroll/item of it, it should even be dirt cheap to hire them to do it. The rate for Spellcasting Services states that it's for a _____ to cast the spell out of his own daily allotment after all. Having someone cast a scroll on you is more like Trained Hireling status. So go pay a chump level 1 wizard 3 sp for the day and call it good. :smallbiggrin:

[SolioFebalas]

however in this particular case I would be creating the scroll so I could make it require what ever language I wanted it too.

Nope, as i know, arcane spells MUST be writen on draconic, not on a language of your choice.

[Milo v3]

Idk why language comes into it, you don't need to know Draconic to write down wizard spells or scrolls, or to use scrolls. Otherwise it would say that you need knowledge of the Draconic language to use them.

As long as it can speak and has ranks in Use Magic Device (because it can't be used untrained), it should be able to use the scroll on a successful check.

[Yogibear41]

Course, I have to ask if there's the simple solution of just paying some level 1 wizard scrub to use the scroll on you. They shouldn't be too hard to find in whatever city you're basing your adventures out of. If you already got a scroll/item of it, it should even be dirt cheap to hire them to do it. The rate for Spellcasting Services states that it's for a _____ to cast the spell out of his own daily allotment after all. Having someone cast a scroll on you is more like Trained Hireling status. So go pay a chump level 1 wizard 3 sp for the day and call it good. :smallbiggrin:

Scrolls aren't like wands he would have to make a level check to be able to use it, if I remember right. Also turning yourself into a half-demon monster isn't something the general population is going to be okay with.

[Chronos]

And there are large amounts of debate as to whether even a talking familiar like a Raven can even use UMD.
I've never seen such a debate, and I can't see any grounds for it. If you have UMD ranks, so does the bird. And humanoids don't need to know draconic to cast spells or use scrolls, so familiars shouldn't, either.

As for other methods, you could use a Ring of Spell Storing.

Any way you do it, though, be aware that the spell also gives you the +4 LA, which is probably not really worth it.

[Yuki Akuma]

Nope, as i know, arcane spells MUST be writen on draconic, not on a language of your choice.

[citation needed]

[Yogibear41]

I've never seen such a debate, and I can't see any grounds for it. If you have UMD ranks, so does the bird. And humanoids don't need to know draconic to cast spells or use scrolls, so familiars shouldn't, either.

As for other methods, you could use a Ring of Spell Storing.

Any way you do it, though, be aware that the spell also gives you the +4 LA, which is probably not really worth it.

Well yes and no, its mainly for a character concept and story line, but also a player has wished away his LA with a wish spell before so if I just eat the LA for a few levels I can wish it away.

[Chronos]

Make that a few plus four levels.

[Invader]

Speaking and reading are 2 different things. Ravens can't read regardless if they can speak 70 languages.

[TuggyNE]

Speaking and reading are 2 different things. Ravens can't read regardless if they can speak 70 languages.

Then the master can spend two skill points on Speak Language for literacy (just like a barbarian, since barbarians are the only characters that are illiterate per Speak Language) and boom, problem solved.

[Chronos]

So share a Read Magic spell with it, then.

[Yuki Akuma]

Speaking and reading are 2 different things. Ravens can't read regardless if they can speak 70 languages.

All characters are automatically literate in every language they speak unless specifically noted not to be.

Barbarians and Totemists are noted not to be. Raven familiars are not.

[Invader]

All characters are automatically literate in every language they speak unless specifically noted not to be.

Barbarians and Totemists are noted not to be. Raven familiars are not.

And a raven is not a character.

[Invader]

Then the master can spend two on Speak I sanguage for literacy (just like a barbarian, since barbarians are the only characters that are illiterate per Speak Language) and boom, problem solved.

Yup in which case I'd say if it can pass the UMD check it would work.

[Maginomicon]

My only guess is that the only way in practical terms that you'd be able to pull this of is if you somehow give your raven familiar some form of telekinesis (through mage hand or prestidigitation), as they don't have thumbs.

If you can somehow finagle a feat onto your raven familiar, you can use Hidden Talent keyed to force of mind (psionic mage hand) or psionic prestidigitation to pull this off.

EDIT: Imbue Familiar With Spell Ability (SpC p120) could also do it. As for those that say all "characters" get this or all "characters" get that... realize that it's referring to all "creatures" that could conceivably do whatever it is it's talking about. It's like the unspoken "duh" that says a flying creature doesn't provoke an AoO when it's flying higher up than your reach, even though it's entering your "square".

[TuggyNE]

And a raven is not a character.

Oh? Check, for example, page 104 of the DMG, which apparently* says "Animals, vermin, magical beasts, and other low-intelligence monsters form a special category of NPC." And, of course, NPC stands for non-player character. Similarly, the glossary (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_character&alpha=C) notes that "The words 'character' and 'creature' are often used synonymously within these rules, since almost any creature could be a character within the game" (presumably excluding mindless creatures).

*AFB, so can't check this myself.

[Invader]

Oh? Check, for example, page 104 of the DMG, which apparently* says "Animals, vermin, magical beasts, and other low-intelligence monsters form a special category of NPC." And, of course, NPC stands for non-player character. Similarly, the glossary (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_character&alpha=C) notes that "The words 'character' and 'creature' are often used synonymously within these rules, since almost any creature could be a character within the game" (presumably excluding mindless creatures).

*AFB, so can't check this myself.

I stand corrected even though I'd say it's a pretty loose interpretation of "character"